Modify Agent AR From Perklines

[srompu]

Is it possible Agents could get some AR added to the perklines Shadowsneak and Sharpshooter? The perk modifications are a step in the right direction, but it would be nice to see some relevant and useful modifiers go with them. Also, Agents may need to deperk other perklines so there should at least be something to compensate.

Currently, Agent AR is low enough to make Agents rather dependant on AS for their regular damage, especially against evade professions, so an AR boost wouldn't be OP.

Also, most of our perklines have useful modifiers.
Assassin: 25 Rifle, 100 AS, +Evades.
Black Ops: 55 Rifle, 65 AS, +Damage
Infantry: 120 Rifle, +HP
Shadowsneak: 10 AS, 100 Conceal, 55 Sense ---------- Wtf? Twinking perkline?
Sharpshooter: 30 AS, 3 Crit ----------- Ummmmmz.... That uber crit, yeah


So, in summary, could the perkline modifiers be looked at perhaps on their own, and if deemed relevant, also as a solution to Agent AR troubles?

[Ixiaan]

Bump. Most professions get +200 of their primary weapon skill for 10 perks or less while agent needs to use 30 perks.

[Racatti]

Use bullseye.

[sultryvoltron]

Bump. Most professions get +200 of their primary weapon skill for 10 perks or less while agent needs to use 30 perks.

That's a good point actually, I had never thought about it but our perklines do give craptastic AR, even compared to small arms and melee classes.

Use bullseye.

Use drains.

[Hulk]

Use bullseye.

exactly :P

[Ebondevil]

Use bullseye.

You know, you keep using that argument even after it's been pointed out that Agents are perfectly aware of the debuff and use it, yet there's still a serious problem with Agent AR, Bullseye is not a solution to the problem. More AR is, really I'd prefer to see Agents get more AR than the alternative which is nerfing everyones evades.

[Zixx]

You know, you keep using that argument even after it's been pointed out that Agents are perfectly aware of the debuff and use it, yet there's still a serious problem with Agent AR, Bullseye is not a solution to the problem. More AR is, really I'd prefer to see Agents get more AR than the alternative which is nerfing everyones evades.

And Agents get high AR, If they go for AR. you just want Massive AR AND HP/Def at the same time. Wee A bloo matafaking hoo, we cant get everything.

Tho, check few months ago...when Agents went to low AR deliberately. whole having huge HP and Def thing, and doing MORE than well at PvP. whys that? aint it AS thats the important skill? Good gawd you are biased even tho you should be a "professional".

[Lupusceleri]

And Agents get high AR, If they go for AR. you just want Massive AR AND HP/Def at the same time. Wee A bloo matafaking hoo, we cant get everything.

Tho, check few months ago...when Agents went to low AR deliberately. whole having huge HP and Def thing, and doing MORE than well at PvP. whys that? aint it AS thats the important skill? Good gawd you are biased even tho you should be a "professional".

Now why would Agents sacrifice AR, which enables them to kill peoples, to gain def?

...hmmm..

...

...thinking..

...

...going to take a guess..

...

...anytime now..

...

...oh, wait.

Maybe, just maybe, it's because everyone has gotten more damage. Resulting in us HAVING to go for a setup that has some form of defense in it, to keep up with it.

For what it's worth, if an Agent went ALL out AR setup they would have about 3.2k-3.3k AR, that's not exactly "massive" AR when you compare it to certain other professions - that get comparable or higher AR, without having to give up practically their whole defense.

[Zixx]

For what it's worth, if an Agent went ALL out AR setup they would have about 3.2k-3.3k AR, that's not exactly "massive" AR when you compare it to certain other professions - that get comparable or higher AR, without having to give up practically their whole defense.

3.2-3.3K and I do believe someone mentioned a certain nano that ups the ante quite a bit. and that AR is like what...third highest ingame? Maybe fourth? To me that sounds quite high.

You might want to think of the game as a whole sometime. not something what a kid in a candy store would.

And why sacrifice AR? Because AS is the important skill for you, not regular AR. oh juk juk, wasnt that hard.

Whats that? you had to go for a certain setup to evolve with the game? well Ill be Dang, sounds horrible, I bet no one else had to do that! :O

[Lupusceleri]

3.2-3.3K and I do believe someone mentioned a certain nano that ups the ante quite a bit. and that AR is like what...third highest ingame? Maybe fourth? To me that sounds quite high.

I do believe we've had an argument about spending your time in sneak all the time unless attacking, in another thread, is it not?

With that high of an AR setup, you need to kill fast or you're going to splatter horribly yourself the second you leave sneak. There is simply no time to cast Bullseye enough times to land it, or cast it at all, if you don't have evades and only 15k hp: instead, you'll be pressing CH and hoping it works.

And why sacrifice AR? Because AS is the important skill for you, not regular AR. oh juk juk, wasnt that hard.

Get a clue.

We have three perks that go off AimedShot, and that's Concussive Shot, Tranquillizer (debuff), and Assassinate (unusable in its current form). All the rest are 100% Rifle (or in case of Champion, 100% Attack Modifier).

Also, the biggest AimedShot buffer we have access to is the 275 scope with a 336 AS buff.. which we sacrifice for LE research in case of evade or hp setups.

Whats that? you had to go for a certain setup to evolve with the game? well Ill be Dang, sounds horrible, I bet no one else had to do that! :O

Yep. I've changed my setup to evolve with the game quite a few times, during my TL7 time: I've gone from pure AR setup, to pure hp setup, to AR/hp setup, to AR/hp/nanoskills setup, to hp/def setup, to AR/def setup, to lowhp/def/nanoskills setup, to my current AR/def setup. With all these setups I also perked either NR0, NR1, or NR2 depending on situation, and constantly swapped gear to adapt to each individual opponent.

So yeah I've had my share of different setups while the game evolved. Do you hear me crying about that? Nah.

But trust me when I say that the current uh.. "good" setup is AR/def, and you simply won't ever reach "high" AR in that type of setup.

[Zixx]

I do believe we've had an argument about spending your time in sneak all the time unless attacking, in another thread, is it not?

With that high of an AR setup, you need to kill fast or you're going to splatter horribly yourself the second you leave sneak. There is simply no time to cast Bullseye enough times to land it, or cast it at all, if you don't have evades and only 15k hp: instead, you'll be pressing CH and hoping it works.

Haha, we should get a room soon.

tho the image you potray there doesnt sound so bad. sounds..normal. You need speed (we agree there, thats what im saying all along), but where we seem to disagree is the "using yer brains while Not running into people unsneaked and crying that we cant tank everyone" part.

Get a clue.

See, you know how the perks work. now tell FC to make those better. Thats what yo ureally need. We dont need a new Advforcer.

Yep. I've changed my setup to evolve with the game

Umm..great? I think you missed the sarcasm in that. well heres the jist of it: There are other people playing the game too, and whadda ya know, all arent agents either, and they had/have to change gear too. The world outside the kids candyshop in a wonderous thing.

[Lupusceleri]

tho the image you potray there doesnt sound so bad. sounds..normal. You need speed (we agree there, thats what im saying all along), but where we seem to disagree is the "using yer brains while Not running into people unsneaked and crying that we cant tank everyone" part.

Maybe, but with 3.2k-3.3k AR you still won't perk any evaders. Well, other than the wannabe-evaders such as Agent/Enf/Keeper/bowMP/NT/Trader. Then again in def setup you could perk 90% of them already, excepting Traders/bowMP.

So, to conclude, what you're saying is kind of a moot point. If that defenseless 15k hp Agent had 4k AR in trade for his squishyness, then sure. However, this is not the case.

See, you know how the perks work. now tell FC to make those better. Thats what yo ureally need. We dont need a new Advforcer.

Umm..great? I think you missed the sarcasm in that. well heres the jist of it: There are other people playing the game too, and whadda ya know, all arent agents either, and they had/have to change gear too. The world outside the kids candyshop in a wonderous thing.

Eehhh? Of course peoples have had to change gear and IP setups. I think you missed the point, yet again: we, too, have often changed our gear to remain viable.

But if the rebalancing hits live as it currently stands, there would be no such thing as a viable setup for Agents.

[Zixx]

Maybe, but with 3.2k-3.3k AR you still won't perk any evaders. Well, other than the wannabe-evaders such as Agent/Enf/Keeper/bowMP/NT/Trader. Then again in def setup you could perk 90% of them already, excepting Traders/bowMP.

And you should not be able to perk evaders, thats what they do..they evade. tho we (in general) should be able to perk Advs, and we sometimes can. I still dont see the problem? This seems crying just for the sake of crying now. All this makes me even more sure that the reasons behind all these things is that you want to get back to what agent once was, which is/was not balance.

You have AR, and mighty high one at that if you choose to have it. I mean...wut? only reason to ask for more than 3.3K AR is to have it While having the high Def too. You really cant see the stupidity of this thing? You admit you have one of the top tier ARs, but you ask for more, while shadowing it in some ramble about 15K HP (löl?).

[Marinegent]

And you should not be able to perk evaders, thats what they do..they evade. tho we (in general) should be able to perk Advs, and we sometimes can. I still dont see the problem? This seems crying just for the sake of crying now. All this makes me even more sure that the reasons behind all these things is that you want to get back to what agent once was, which is/was not balance.

You have AR, and mighty high one at that if you choose to have it. I mean...wut? only reason to ask for more than 3.3K AR is to have it While having the high Def too. You really cant see the stupidity of this thing? You admit you have one of the top tier ARs, but you ask for more, while shadowing it in some ramble about 15K HP (löl?).

Your missing the mark, entirely.

We are in a "defensive" setup, because if we are not, we get utterly and completely eaten alive by nearly anyone. The "defensive" setup, is hardly a defense, but after enough sacrifice, enough to hold our own with a little bit of skill and timing.

If we would go for an offensive setup, we may have this 3.3k AR your both talking about, but we would have such a mediocre defense, that we'd still die, even faster than we do now.

We are asking for a viable defense, be it through perks, or other forms, so that going for an offensive setup is even a possibly usable option in more than one or two rare situations. Or for that viable defense, and possibly to remain in what are the current defensive setups and try to become a survival profession, because choice is good.

Get it? We aren't asking for the best of everything. We are asking for a naturally decent defense, and for it to be possible to go for either Offense or Defense setups, because as it stands, only of those is viable in current pvp, and even so to mediocre results...

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Sounds to me like agents need a defensive perk that isn't that great, but should provide enough of a buffer to reduce the effects of an alpha

But, I've read this discussion, and I see a lot of similarities between agents and other classes.

MA's for example are an "evade prof" which, somehow becomes irrelevant in most fights because we have to equip for AR. An AR setup will yield us about 3150ish AR, which isn't spectacular by any stretch of the imagination, but, with decent timing we can, when it matters, hopfully, pop MM for 220 more.

the problem is, is that you can not have great AR and great NR and great HP and great evades. But, neither can any other prof.

MA's for example want to go very low HP vs agent, but, get the nerfhammer to evades in the process: remove masterpiece bracer, lose 20 AR/20 AAd, remove perfected infused DB bracer, lose boatloads, take off the def paragon.. ok, we JUST lost 200 AR/200 AAD approx. Now you can perk us, with about 3k static evades we're goign to be mincemeat, even though the whole point of using low HP is to avoid not being able to outheal the capping hits of AS.

So, since LE launch we are either able to kill pretty quick, and heavily reliant on perk evades, or, unable to kill very well and have ok evades, but either way we still have way more HP than we want, and reflects are still borked.

Anyway, I don't know enough about agents to make a real viable comment here, but I do know that you can't have it all.. If you wanted it all you need to roll ranged advy. You know, have all the benefits of agent, enforcer doctor, fixer and MA, except have better all of it.

[Kinkst44h]

Agents could easily use another 800 AR.

Given how Fragile agents ARE in an AR setup, having 4000+ AR wouldnt be unbalanced, assuming they land bullseye.

Yes, 3650 AR would still seem pretty damn low in an AR setup for an agent. I dont think agents would go an AR setup as a general rule unless they could land every single damn perk through limber, dof, and evasive stance.. thats how bad the defence is as an AR agent, lol.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Agents could easily use another 800 AR.

Given how Fragile agents ARE in an AR setup, having 4000+ AR wouldnt be unbalanced, assuming they land bullseye.

Yes, 3650 AR would still seem pretty damn low in an AR setup for an agent. I dont think agents would go an AR setup as a general rule unless they could land every single damn perk through limber, dof, and evasive stance.. thats how bad the defence is as an AR agent, lol.

?..

[srompu]

?..

He isn't talking about high AR as much as awful survival.

Bump for the original post; add Rifle or at least some useful modifiers to our perklines, please!

[Ebondevil]

aint it AS thats the important skill?

You do realise that after the perk changes all of the perks Agents will have will be working off AR, which will be the primary weapon skill being used, not AS?

Please try to remember we're talking about the 'future' (or lack thereof from what we've seen) of the profession, not the current state of things.

Also please bear in mind that Agents can currently pretty much ignore evades with Aimed shot, after the changes Aimed shot will no longer be a guaranteed hit, and rightly so, but it is going to significantly lower the Agent damage output in PvP, hence why there's a need for an improvement in Agent AR to help compensate.

[NoGoal]

Agents could easily use another 800 AR.

Given how Fragile agents ARE in an AR setup, having 4000+ AR wouldnt be unbalanced, assuming they land bullseye.

Yes, 3650 AR would still seem pretty damn low in an AR setup for an agent. I dont think agents would go an AR setup as a general rule unless they could land every single damn perk through limber, dof, and evasive stance.. thats how bad the defence is as an AR agent, lol.

That's why asking for more AR is wrong. You can't ask for more AR so you can drop more AR items to get more def.

Issue with agents isn't AR but their def. Well I'm not even convinced that agents lack def. In the other thread lupus made about agents it looks like it's other profs toolsets that need changes and some of them were already made.

I can't predict the future but seeing perk changes and debuffs/heal nerfs, agents will be a very strong PvP prof at TL 7. The only thing I'd suggest is a revamp of the bailing nanos. Remove debuffs and add 2 special blockers or something.