TL 5 Ease of Use

[Obtena]

You're ignoring the fact that TL5 is more than level 150 especially for PvP twinks. In AO you twink for 150 for one reason, Sector 10 pwnage. You can't go on to make arguments for 150 vs 170 or 174. This is as silly as a 190 arguing to want to do damage to a 220 toon. It's not going to happen. If you twink for a PvM instance then expect to get the sharp end of the stick when coming up against 160/165/170/174 toons because they simply benefit from more IP expenditure, better symbiants and as such -should- wipe the floor with you.

TBH, I still don't see how that's relevant to Keepers not being in need of PVP attention at TL5.

[lamehorse]

how about you equip you keeper alot better, learn to play and oh i dunno maybe level your keeper ? dont expect to be able to compete against a agent pvp twink on a 150 sec keeper. and stop making these threads your clogging everything up.

* If you do not have anything constructive to say about an issue, do not reply to it. If you do not have anything nice to say, do not speak at all. This will be enforced rigidly. Your opinion is welcome provided it is constructive and pleasant. I have absolutely no qualms about banning people who are disrespectful to other users.

Anyway,his keeper's 170,his keeper's equipment cost i would bet far exceeds any tl5 agents I've seen and the fact he can kill a tl5 agent on a tl5 keeper as long as he nerfs their kiting ability tells me he dosent -really- need to LTP1!!1

IMO anyone choosing to use either shades or keepers in sub TL7 PvP should be commended and even more so if they actually kill anyone.

[Hacre]

TBH, I still don't see how that's relevant to Keepers not being in need of PVP attention at TL5.

I didn't say that though. I was trying to point out that McKnuckle, if his Keeper is level 150, is talking from a skewed viewpoint.

I also don't see why -every- profession should be PvP viable at every TL. I like how different TLs have different viable professions. Different professions have their strong periods, some are strong all the way through.

If you look at professions that are strong at most TLs, they're the ones people complain the most about at end game.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I didn't say that though. I was trying to point out that McKnuckle, if his Keeper is level 150, is talking from a skewed viewpoint.

I also don't see why -every- profession should be PvP viable at every TL. I like how different TLs have different viable professions. Different professions have their strong periods, some are strong all the way through.

If you look at professions that are strong at most TLs, they're the ones people complain the most about at end game.

Heres some things to get straight.

1. my keeper is 170
2. I know how to play
3. I've tried 4 different armour setups at 3 different levels, with 3 different weapons, and every perk combination that is remotely viable. I've used a 2s hd, AoR, blessing, high AR, high HP, lowish HP, high evades, high evades to high AR swaps, The only thing I haven't tried is an AS swap, but I've deemed that it not worthwhile because of the difficulty in equipping a decent weapon afterwards.
4. My mediocre success is based largely on sheer determination, NOT because my prof has a good toolset.

Now, wolf, meriditch, go troll RK1. And, please don't start insulting something you don't know anythign about.

@ Hacre: This is a very reasonable argument, however, There are some profs which are disproportionately overpowered at many levels, for example, traders enforcers seem to be among the most OP'd at all lower levels, which are only slightly OP'd (given the comments on these three threads) at TL5, but become OP'd again at TL7.

Advy on the other hand is well OP'd at 165+ but about "average" sub 165.

But, you see, this is the point. If you're playing an "average" prof, or, not in the OP'd bracket, then thats great! And thats not what I have problems with... What I have problems with are the profs that have so many inate defenses that there is no way to kill them for the "average" profs.

For example: At TL5 a doc can tank nearly any other prof indefinitly. no problem, BECAUSE they also have a hard time killing, so the balance is ok.

At TL5, an advy can nearly indefinitly tank 1 (and sometimes 2 other people). In itself, not being killable isn't OP'd, BUT, tanking 2 people is, AND having enough offence to kill them both before perishing himself IS very OP'd.

Same with Agent. An agent can tank for a long bloody time, similar to a doctor or advy but, similar to the advy, is way out of balance because of his massive killing capacity.

Enforcer isn't way OP'd for the reason that he cannot tank forever. The enforcer has excellent killing capacity, BUT, can easily be taken down with some hard hitting specials and can't CH to erase all the damage.



Anyway, This thread was never about "my keeper" Others have brought this to the thread with no help from me. There has been some relevant discussion about it, and the only thing I've got to add to it is this: if any advy or enforcer or agent had put the same amount of work into their toon as I have mine, you would see none of these posts.

You don't see troxybullets, or devie, or missdoca, giit, or revanagent(1-2), pvppain, jinxez, apokalypso, posting here.. Why? because they play a prof that isn't in DIRE need of help. It's not because they are "better than me" It's because the work they have put in has paid off.

Work paying off requires two things, 1. your prof has the tools to do well, 2. Your prof has enough options that are acquireable by hard work that are comparable in value to other profs.

1. Keeper has an OK toolset, but it needs a LOT of changes to be remotely competitive.
2. Keeper has effectively 0 options. in fact, the needed perk actions and benefits are actually negative, meaning that at TL5 they CANNOT even achieve a "comparable setup" (At TL7, I make no comment, but from other posters I see that there are similar problems)

And that, right there, is why keepers are failing hard, ALL the way across the board.

[Hacre]

The professions you mentioned are the ones I was talking about with people constantly complaining about them at end game.

While I want Keepers to be viable I don't want to go back to everyone crying about them either like they did pre LE.

I think the biggest issue with Keepers at TL5 from my recollection is the fact that Keeper perk lines need 10 perks for that line to gain any real power, or the lines only start to blossom at TL7 and currently, at TL7, they're not good enough.

Whereas Acrobat professions have that line maxed out and fully effective long before TL5 even begins.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

The professions you mentioned are the ones I was talking about with people constantly complaining about them at end game.

While I want Keepers to be viable I don't want to go back to everyone crying about them either like they did pre LE.

I think the biggest issue with Keepers at TL5 from my recollection is the fact that Keeper perk lines need 10 perks for that line to gain any real power, or the lines only start to blossom at TL7 and currently, at TL7, they're not good enough.

Whereas Acrobat professions have that line maxed out and fully effective long before TL5 even begins.

ugh, the bolded part of this post made me nauseous. My keeper has like 30% of his inate defences/offences at TL5, where as some profs have like 80% of them... makes me nuts.