TL 5 Ease of Use

[Obtena]

Depends on professions. My doc is running around with Arbalest, not maxed symbs/imps and set of reactive (sleeves+gloves are paramedic, cheapest AI armor). And he survives just fine with 12k selffed HP if he just gets RRFE. Very, very cheap toon in twink terms. Maybe like close to 100mil total.

Let's be realistic .... a twinked out PVM doc with HP and nanocost is probably the highest survival capability of any toon out there BUT, I'm not convinced that's relevant to a twink that 'works' in PVP.

[Dopecat]

Let's be realistic .... a twinked out PVM doc with HP and nanocost is probably the highest survival capability of any toon out there BUT, I'm not convinced that's relevant to a twink that 'works' in PVP.

Except its not PVM doc if it has AS imps and Arbalest, which is probably the best AS giving weapon at tl5 for a doc. "PVP doc" with CSS in comparison has just probably bit less hp and bit more evades, and couple seconds faster AS (my PVM doc has 17s recharge if i recall right). Such "PVP doc" is also easier to solo gank by agents for example, while it can survive better against low AR gimps and 150s in zerg situation.

I play my doc anyways to help my side in mass pvp and keep friendlies alive and survive solo gnak attempts from agents. Rather than pushing for couple second faster AS to be able to get easier solo kills.

[Obtena]

Seriously, again, that doesn't change the fact that cheap twinks don't work, Like Ciek said. A cheap doc has less survivability than an expensive one. That's 'not working' IMO for PVP. Cheap twinks work at PVP levels were the best gear is the cheap gear, no where else. I mean, I don't need to argue with you about it ... it's obvious from how PVP works in the game and how people equip themselves. If cheap gear worked, more people would use it.

[Dopecat]

Seriously, again, that doesn't change the fact that cheap twinks don't work, Like Ciek said. A cheap doc has less survivability than an expensive one. That's 'not working' IMO for PVP. Cheap twinks work at PVP levels were the best gear is the cheap gear, no where else. I mean, I don't need to argue with you about it ... it's obvious from how PVP works in the game and how people equip themselves. If cheap gear worked, more people would use it.

I agree when it comes to other profs. But doc makes exception in this case since some pieces of Reactive are great HP wise and they got nanocost going on too. And as doc, pure HP +nanocost setup works good too. Just add arbalest on top and you got some nice DD going on aswell.

Also, id guess similar setup would work somewhat decently also for mimic doctor agent. Though there id have to say better CSS +some ofab setups would be far more effective.

edit: Also i might add there is difference between RK1 and RK2 in this sense. Mimic Enfos on RK1 completely destroy lower hp evade docs. So thats where going max HP becomes actually better option for surviving such ganks 1on1. I guess on RK2, maxed evade docs are more viable if all agents run around with low AR mimic doctor setup.

[Ciex]

Except docs arent cheap. They are only a bit cheaper than others. Good ql of arbalest costs hundreds of millions creds and i wouldnt call reactive "cheap" armor. Its only nodrop but there is no way to get it without tl7 help (call me a gimp but i cant solo those hags on my 220s). And support symbs are the most expensive.

[Obtena]

edit: Also i might add there is difference between RK1 and RK2 in this sense. Mimic Enfos on RK1 completely destroy lower hp evade docs. So thats where going max HP becomes actually better option for surviving such ganks 1on1. I guess on RK2, maxed evade docs are more viable if all agents run around with low AR mimic doctor setup.

There is definitely a philosophical difference here. RK2 has a total of zero low HP evades docs and as well, hardly anyone TL5 plays mimic enfo.

[Dopecat]

Except docs arent cheap. They are only a bit cheaper than others. Good ql of arbalest costs hundreds of millions creds and i wouldnt call reactive "cheap" armor. Its only nodrop but there is no way to get it without tl7 help (call me a gimp but i cant solo those hags on my 220s). And support symbs are the most expensive.

Think mine cost 50mil, and also now that i think of it, improved NR nanos were kinda expensive too. But armor was nearly free and getting reactive was easy as i knew people farming Biodome passes who didnt need the armor. Cant recall if support symbs were expensive or not, docs can use many ql 200+ implants anyway.

So as conclusion, maybe my doc was geared with 300mil-400mil or so if you count in improved nanos etc. And yes, you can put in more credits in doc too if you go evade setup with CSS and 2x iGocs and notucomm etc. But in doc's case, thats not REQUIRED for performing well.

So with HP setup and Arbalest it's still cheap compared to my agent/crat/trader which all kinda required 1bil-3bil setup for max hawtness.

There is definitely a philosophical difference here. RK2 has a total of zero low HP evades docs and as well, hardly anyone TL5 plays mimic enfo.

With low HP evade doc i mean someone wearing CSS and notu and having "only" 9k hp or so selffed

[Organa]

There is definitely a philosophical difference here. RK2 has a total of zero low HP evades docs and as well, hardly anyone TL5 plays mimic enfo.

Blimey, almost ALL the TL5 Agents on RK1 are mimic enfo!

Org

[Moonbolt]

Except docs arent cheap. They are only a bit cheaper than others. Good ql of arbalest costs hundreds of millions creds and i wouldnt call reactive "cheap" armor. Its only nodrop but there is no way to get it without tl7 help (call me a gimp but i cant solo those hags on my 220s). And support symbs are the most expensive.

i have soloed the hags on my enf...
with me and a soldier friend it was even realy easy.
while my soldier friend struggeld with health and had to run away to sit and refill i could just tank the whole time.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Blimey, almost ALL the TL5 Agents on RK1 are mimic enfo!

Org

ya. I've noticed this too. It's a bizarre divergence on percieved agent strengths.

On RK1 apparently all go mimic enf. on RK2 all go mimic doc.

On RK2, the strongest, and I mean strongest pvpers are mimic doc agents. They can take down almost every other prof given a bit of time... but it sounds like these mimic enf agents take down everyone too, just in a shorter time.

The problem with mimic enf is that you get your ass handed to you by me, on RK2.

mimic enf vs keeper is a blow out. Does RK1 have any active TL5 keepers?

I'm the only pvping one on RK2, at least in my time zone, there are 2 others, but I onlt see them at BS.

[Dopecat]

The problem with mimic enf is that you get your ass handed to you by me, on RK2.

mimic enf vs keeper is a blow out. Does RK1 have any active TL5 keepers?

Find it funny how keepers are according to you being some sort of nemesis to mimic enforcer. Keeper on my agent seems just like lot more easily rooted/snared enfo. That 1 blocker aura they might be running, well got fling to take that before ASing. And -1250 rifle nemesis nano doesnt land either with +800 NR from rage.

And yes we have had some nice keepers, but they seem to play very rarely. And no, i don't have any issues with keepers on mimic enforcer. 2 snare perks, 1 blind perk, 2 root grafts and agent's own root nano keeps them at bay for AS kiting. And even if not, well, they drop fast as all perks land and Cobra caps quite easily through cocoon.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Find it funny how keepers are according to you being some sort of nemesis to mimic enforcer.

I don't think thats according to me... I think that would be the pointof the nemesis nano?

Keeper on my agent seems just like lot more easily rooted/snared enfo. That 1 blocker aura they might be running, well got fling to take that before ASing. And -1250 rifle nemesis nano doesnt land either with +800 NR from rage.

And yes we have had some nice keepers, but they seem to play very rarely. And no, i don't have any issues with keepers on mimic enforcer. 2 snare perks, 1 blind perk, 2 root grafts and agent's own root nano keeps them at bay for AS kiting. And even if not, well, they drop fast as all perks land and Cobra caps quite easily through cocoon.

keepers dont' have special blockers, only regular. And, in BS, I admit, agent ganks are annoying. But in open PVP I travel with a GA4 fixer in tow because nerf all the kiters. I'll nanoweb/root em continually, because we all know that melee profs suck at chasing down targets, especially keepers.

Keepers get their ass handed to them if snared/rooted. So, I travel with my alt. Hot+GSF works well, but still, seriously, if I need 2 profs to counter an agent, doesn't that mean something is a bit unbalanced?

[Mereditche]

but still, seriously, if I need 2 profs to counter an agent, doesn't that mean something is a bit unbalanced?

Maybe you just aren't 'that' good?

[Dopecat]

Keepers get their ass handed to them if snared/rooted. So, I travel with my alt. Hot+GSF works well, but still, seriously, if I need 2 profs to counter an agent, doesn't that mean something is a bit unbalanced?

I think the problem is more in keepers themselves. They could use some <3 in all TLs when it comes to pvp.

[agentwolve]

Keepers get their ass handed to them if snared/rooted. So, I travel with my alt. Hot+GSF works well, but still, seriously, if I need 2 profs to counter an agent, doesn't that mean something is a bit unbalanced?

how about you equip you keeper alot better, learn to play and oh i dunno maybe level your keeper ? dont expect to be able to compete against a agent pvp twink on a 150 sec keeper. and stop making these threads your clogging everything up.

[sannz]

If its just eating agents alive that youre worried about, an amep engi eats those alive. They get of 1 ch, and thats it for them. There are two FPs that might pose a problem to the engi, but doc and enfo sure aren't among them.

And yes, comparing a 150 toon to a 170 and asking for balance is somewhat out of place. Thats 20 lvls difference, a huge gap. Nah, you're wrong if you want balance for that reason.

Keeper lub in general is a good thing, but not under your pretense

[rakhabit]

Except docs arent cheap. They are only a bit cheaper than others. Good ql of arbalest costs hundreds of millions creds and i wouldnt call reactive "cheap" armor. Its only nodrop but there is no way to get it without tl7 help (call me a gimp but i cant solo those hags on my 220s). And support symbs are the most expensive.

Have you made a doc twink?
I spent maybe 300 mil twinking mine whereas I spent almost a billion on my fixer and never even finished her.

Docs are probably the cheapest to twink and are very effective provided the player behind it knows what he's doing.

As for mimic doc agents, I usually go full agg when fighting them if I don't resist their UBT so my CH still casts very fast, and since their NR is so low I usually let dots eat away their HP until it's low enough that a capped AS/Chaotic Assumption will finish them off. Mimic Enf agents are definitely harder to kill :P

[shishu]

well then i do samething wrong cuz i spend 2+bill on my doc and still not impress at all

[Obtena]

how about you equip you keeper alot better, learn to play and oh i dunno maybe level your keeper ? dont expect to be able to compete against a agent pvp twink on a 150 sec keeper. and stop making these threads your clogging everything up.

Yes we all know that leveling fixes everything, as well as learning to play. Maybe you shouls stop making these posts ... they are clogging everything up too. For your information, there is a large population of people hoping to see the lower title levels balanced too. You're disinterest won't disuade us from getting some balancing time too.

So far, despite FC's goal to balance all TL's, anyone lower than TL7 have seen a MINIMUM of attention, so if one post out of hundreds is targeted at something NOT TL7, I think anyone under the impression it's 'clogging' the system is a bit naive and selfish.

[Hacre]

well then i do samething wrong cuz i spend 2+bill on my doc and still not impress at all

I'd imagine so because I've seen some pretty evil Doc twinks in setups that cost less than half that amount.

Yes we all know that leveling fixes everything, as well as learning to play. Maybe you shouls stop making these posts ... they are clogging everything up too. For your information, there is a large population of people hoping to see the lower title levels balanced too. You're disinterest won't disuade us from getting some balancing time too.

So far, despite FC's goal to balance all TL's, anyone lower than TL7 have seen a MINIMUM of attention, so if one post out of hundreds is targeted at something NOT TL7, I think anyone under the impression it's 'clogging' the system is a bit naive and selfish.

You're ignoring the fact that TL5 is more than level 150 especially for PvP twinks. In AO you twink for 150 for one reason, Sector 10 pwnage. You can't go on to make arguments for 150 vs 170 or 174. This is as silly as a 190 arguing to want to do damage to a 220 toon. It's not going to happen. If you twink for a PvM instance then expect to get the sharp end of the stick when coming up against 160/165/170/174 toons because they simply benefit from more IP expenditure, better symbiants and as such -should- wipe the floor with you.