credit degradation: make credits slowly disappear over time

[Darkkblood]

if you want to make money blitz missions for animas like they did before sl. iirc you can make 20mil/hour as a non fixer probably more as a fixer. A great deal of the money making methods today don't add credits to the economy which is good and bad. People that know how to abuse supply and demand will be rich regardless of the system.

[Notcrattey]

You guys do realize that most money in this economy is from ignots and years of sploited credits, right?

[Obtena]

if you want to make money blitz missions for animas like they did before sl. iirc you can make 20mil/hour as a non fixer probably more as a fixer. A great deal of the money making methods today don't add credits to the economy which is good and bad. People that know how to abuse supply and demand will be rich regardless of the system.

Yeah, that's exactly the problem ... 20 mil isn't **** compared to the endgame loots you can purchase. Consider a task that takes you 10's of hours to complete (like leveling from 219-220 on Inferno Hecklers if you were around back then). So you're suggesting that for a single piece of endgame loot, that's a reasonable return on our time ingame? I think everyone that knows the monotony of 'playing' AO like that wants to strangle you right now.

[Obtena]

I got into the game after the ingots, didnt have that easy cred farm. I have made billions makeing and selling lvl 50 peren weapons for the past 4 years. Ao is a "free market economy". The players, aka the citizens, control the economy, not the game designers.

Wow, so what you are saying is that ... it took you 4 years to make enough money to buy half to a third of a set of endgame AI armor or some specials items like Alba bracer, etc... Maybe if the game is around for another 4-8 years, you can finish outfitting yourself or maybe start enough character.

Sounds like you really drove your point home ...

[Mordo]

NO! I started working on my first billion after ingots where patched away, i worked really hard to get the money i own today. Burning it just because you are to lazy to get some money yourself is crazy. I won't support that.

Your best describes how ridiculous this games economy has become. The outsider reading this forum would look and say WTF My first BILLION!!!

Ao has the economy of Zimbabwe.
http://www.joelscoins.com/images/zimpmset8.jpg


http://annoyinglycool.files.wordpres...inflation1.jpg

[Variable]

terrible idea...

[cbus97]

I won't worry about AO's economy until I can buy something for one hundred TRILLION credits:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3400/...d12b7fcee5.jpg

"Sorry mate I don't have exact change. Can you break a hundred-trill?"

[Obtena]

Anything that I can be purchased which exceeds the limit of creds on my toon is a problem IMO. That situation does exist.

[Snoopdooog]

stupid idea. debump

[Notcrattey]

This isn't a terrible idea, the current economy is full to the brim with sploited credits making prices skyrocket and making the game an extreme put off to newer players.

The money it takes to make a toon decent is stupid, these credits need to go.

[l3ronze]

I would hate to see my hard earned credz be taxed away other then through shop tax with my org. I blitz endless numbers of missions for items to keep my shops full to pay for the required gear to have a decently equiped toon. However, I too would like to see the inflation diminish. It's absurd to have to spend weeks grinding the credz to pay for items. It is equally absurd spending weeks camping/raiding/farming to get said items in the intended fashion.

More fun, less grind!

[Nihilaos]

Not to agree that farming/camping for weeks for an item is the ideal situation, but if an item takes 4 weeks (on average) to camp then it *should* cost 4 weeks' worth of grinding credits. When the only resource is time invested, money should change hands at approximately the rate of effort that money took to acquire, whatever the method.

I would propose that a better way to bleed credits out is to create high-end items with mild utility that are primarily social, and cost a massive quantity of money. I would assume that most players with large quantities of money are not hoarding money because that's a natural instinct, they're doing it to buy similarly-outlandishly-priced gear for their twinks. People aren't getting greedier, inflation is running rampant.

As someone has already (correctly) mentioned, putting taxes on credits held mean that tycoons will move their credits into high-value items (just like the real world). The end result is that the least savvy people (newbies and the like) come back a few days later and find they're missing large quantities of money they thought they earned, while the clever multi-billionaire has already safely broken their stash down into stable items of value, and pays almost nothing on taxes.

Oh yes, we can be even more crafty and declare tax on items, but to be honest, playing cat and mouse with people determined to hold onto their hoard is a game of cat and mouse that usually ends with unexpected results hurting the bystanders that we proposed to help to begin with. The best way, imho, is to do like any self-respecting corporation does, and get the person to part with their money by tricking them into believing that they *need* something that costs little or nothing to make. A small collection of direct credits-only items fulfill this need. The rich player now has some nifty trinket that makes other wealthy players jealous so they buy one too, and before you know it billions and billions of credits disappear overnight. The only negative impact on the less wealthy is that they do not have a special edition Yalmaha that looks like a giant flying space whale, while all the cool kids that have been hoarding for 4 years do. I think they'll live.

[tweeeek]

add stims/kits/fm's up to ql300 in shops scaling the cost up ALOT(but not too much )

add imps up to ql 200 to shops(including the premades) scale prices again

[thecheeseman]

Not to agree that farming/camping for weeks for an item is the ideal situation, but if an item takes 4 weeks (on average) to camp then it *should* cost 4 weeks' worth of grinding credits.

in 4 weeks of grinding i use to make about 80 million.

I would propose that a better way to bleed credits out is to create high-end items with mild utility that are primarily social, and cost a massive quantity of money.

no one buys those. those rich hoard because they WANT others to be able to not afford. they like the sense of control and want to dominate other players. the credit inflation is in every way an intended effect.

As someone has already (correctly) mentioned, putting taxes on credits held mean that tycoons will move their credits into high-value items (just like the real world).

in the real world resources like food and water and oil has power and influence. in this computer game a person hoarding phats will jsut let it rot in his bank with no effect in the game.

it wont matter. the entire credits of everyone in this game will level out to a stable level.
if those rich use their creds to buy expensive items, they cant do anything with it.

prices will only decrease and not increase, and will eventually level out. they cant resell at a higher price because ecnomoy would be stabilizing, they cant make profit, they cant grow, so they cant continue their monopoly.

suppose i own 10 billion credits and the tax system is being implemented. i buy ten sets of alien armor at 1 bil each. every month the price lowers . at the end of one year the price has dropped 400m for one set. how will i make a profit? im stuck with the alien armor. i certainly dont want to sell it and lose money. but i cant make profit in any way at all. its check mate.

with a tax system the billion credit mules will be impossible to maintain. why? you can't make multiple billions of credits by playing the game as intended in any way. they were leftover from ingot farming and exploiting and should have been gotten rid of a long time ago.

[Ayria]

it wont matter. the entire credits of everyone in this game will level out to a stable level.
if those rich use their creds to buy expensive items, they cant resell at a higher price, they cant continue their monopoly.

You should look of up "relative", work things in percents rather then integers. It doesn't matter if you have 1,000,000,000,000 credits or if you have 1,000 credits if that is 50x more then everyone else you still hold a monopoly.

If someone buys a set of AI armour for 1,000,000,000 credits and they can only sell it for 500,000,000 credits they may lose 500 million but because everyone else lost the same percent of money 500 million is relatively the same as 1 billion when regarding how hard it is to gather that amount of money in the new economy.

Prices are relative to what the average consumer has, those that have more then average will always hold a monopoly and if they do it with 1 billion or 1 million credits is irrelevant, they hold it none the less.

They tax richer people in the real world more then they do the poor people, do you see them getting poorer? Do they go bankrupt because of taxes? Do they suddenly start living next door to average Joe because they can only afford a 400,000$ house mortgage?

Taxes are not here to balance the economy, they're here to make the governments income so that they can build cities. You'll do nothing by taxing everyone.

Furthermore: those that are richer got there somehow. Making them lose credits doesn't mean they'll forgot how they got them and can't do it again. Yes while ingot and exploited money will decrease they can still maintain their rich status because they know how to make money. And they'll be able to do so at a rate greater then the newbies/lowbies can who are also losing money and you'll have solved nothing.

Now I know my post may be a bit confusing, I lost my train of thought a few times through it but the gist of it is thus: rich is relative, people are only rich because they have more then the average and removing credits from everyone won't make them poor or the poor rich; it will just make them rich with less money needed to maintain the title.

[thecheeseman]

You should look of up "relative", work things in percents rather then integers. It doesn't matter if you have 1,000,000,000,000 credits or if you have 1,000 credits if that is 50x more then everyone else you still hold a monopoly..

in the current version of the game it is impossible to CREATE (not obtain via trade) multiple billions legitimately by selling loot to npcs. with the tax system the billions of credits simply cannot be maintained.

If someone buys a set of AI armour for 1,000,000,000 credits and they can only sell it for 500,000,000 credits they may lose 500 million but because everyone else lost the same percent of money 500 million is relatively the same as 1 billion when regarding how hard it is to gather that amount of money in the new economy..

>>>there will always be hard working farmers who will be rich, but the gap WILL NOT BE AS EXTREME.<<<< the more credits you obtain the harder it will be to maintain it.
losing 10% of 1 billion is harder than 10% of 100 million.
making 500 million is easier than making 1 billion. mroe people will be able to afford it.

You'll do nothing by taxing everyone..

by taxing funcom can finally balance the game economy and put an end to credit inflation.

Furthermore: those that are richer got there somehow. Making them lose credits doesn't mean they'll forgot how they got them and can't do it again. .

NO THEY CANNOT DO IT AGAIN. thats why farmers are truly, genuinely afraid when they see suggestions like this.
ingots no longer drop from hecklers and credit sploiting methods are found and fixed. you can never create billions of credits out of thin air ever again

Now I know my post may be a bit confusing, I lost my train of thought a few times through it but the gist of it is thus: rich is relative, people are only rich because they have more then the average and removing credits from everyone won't make them poor or the poor rich; it will just make them rich with less money needed to maintain the title.

it will lower the gap. 100k to 100m is a smaller gap than 100k to 1 BILLION.

[Ayria]

in the current version of the game it is impossible to CREATE (not obtain via trade) multiple billions legitimately by selling loot to npcs. with the tax system the billions of credits simply cannot be maintained.

It is perfectly possible to create as much money as we want it is only a matter of time.

there will always be hard working farmers who will be rich, but the gap WILL NOT BE AS EXTREME. the more credits you obtain the harder it will be to maintain it.
losing 10% of 1 billion is harder than 10% of 100 million.

You are dealing in integers again. If you look at hard numbers where 10% of a billion is 100 million lost and 10% of 100 million is only 10 million lost the relative balance remains the same even though one lost 90 million more then the other because both parties lost and while one has 900 million instead of 1 billion the other now has 90 million instead of 100 million. The ratio remains 10:1.

People don't need to maintain billions, so long as they maintain more then the rest nothing is solved.

[thecheeseman]

if a new player has 100k and loses 10% once a month, he can easily gain it back by a few rk missions. if a rich farmer loses 10% of 10 billion, he cannot get it back by buying low sell high, because every single other farmer also lost 10 billion. it will be impossible to maintain that much because it was never gained fairly.

[thecheeseman]

It is perfectly possible to create as much money as we want it is only a matter of time..

it is not. go try make a billion by selling loot to shops. go try. some guy on page one said it took him 4 years.

You are dealing in integers again. The ratio remains 10:1.

the one who lose 1 billion cant get it back but the one who lose 10 million can, because those billions were made from ingots and exploited credits



the ratio will NOT be 10:1. it will slowly get smaller as the billions are impossible to maintain because they were not obtained fairly but were exploited or left over from ingot days.


the gap between the rich and poor will get smaller. the hardworking farmer will still be uber and rich, but the poor player will have a chance. the only people who will be at a disadvantage are the ones who obtained untold billions from ingots, ebay, exploits, and game mechanic abuse

[tweeeek]

lets not forget if you have 1 billion and i have 5 billion over 5 toons i am going to lose credits at 5x the rate because the money is split over 5 toons