So FC

[Lollersk8tes]

In the end I believe that is 100% my dissatisfaction with the content being added, not that it's being added but that the dev team refuses to compromise with the playerbase about items and publicly address why they refuse to.

Because you're a retard.

Want to discuss test items? Become a tester or stfu.

Whiny bitch.

[Technogen]

1.) I am, or more so was, a tester.
2.) These are the forums for the 17.10 update, IF FC really did not want their playerbase to discuses and comment on their upcoming content, then they would not put up an open forum for the content on it.
3.) you fail all over.

[Lollersk8tes]

1: You are or you aren't. Either way - quit bitching here and go back to test.
2: This forum is for 17.10 PREVIEW...not the 17.10 update which doesn't exist yet for live. It exists for TEST oddly enough. Read the "How to use this forum..." stickied at the top.
3. nah


Test bitching belongs on test. Technically this is to discuss what FC has posted in the 17.10 Preview which is pretty damn little other than to mention the raid interface.

No mention of nanos is made in the preview as FC has to TEST them first. Testing them includes feedback from the testers..not the whiners.

Your rant was about FC not telling peeps to go to test and complain. Well guess what..that's why Test is there. Make use of it.

Or did you get kicked out?

[Berael]

The power level of a fully equipped and buffed up engineer with pets is very high. Higher than most. High DD, high utility, high defence. There are issues with pets in pvp, but who doesn't have issues of some kind or other? Consider that power and you see why the reqs are that high. Also there's this obsession with always being at the most extreme best that it's possible to achieve. That's more of you wanting to blow while holding flour in your mouth... Sure, some others have an easier time getting to the absolute best their profession is capable of, but there are differences between professions and all that needs to be taken into consideration as well.

Engineers keep explaining this people over and over again and its pretty frustrating that people don't seem to listen: The Battle Station environment strips engineers of almost all the power that you see them throwing around in raids or when leveling and leaves them with just good defenses. In BS Engineers have good defense, low power and little utility as anything other than a blocker totem. We are not saying we want to be the most powerful, we are saying we cannot compete with our current toolset.

Just because engineers have power in some situations, because those of us at top form have spent billions of credits and hundreds of hours of time getting there, does not mean that we should be dismissed. In fact, up until the profession specific nanos were added for the first DB quests did Engineers get any really substantial addition to -their- toolset since Shadowlands.

[-Bugsplat]

PS please don't give us that crap about "items on test need to be talked about on the test forums" unless you're willing to grant everyone access to the test forums we will talk about it here. These effect the whole playerbase not just the people on test.

The test forums are for bugs, not discussion about so and so content.

[Technogen]

Whoa, completely missed Masta's post on engineers.

Acetylcholin has played 128 days 6 hours 0 minutes 38 seconds
Tech had some 300 days, I've canceled that account so I cant log it in to get a number.

Now, Ace was up until 3 months ago one of, if not the top engineer setup. It was IMPOSSIBLE, for me to solo any inf mob higher then 230. That's with 18k hp on me, mech and gad perked for heals, reflects on the pets and me chain spamming the new heal. So, we're not top in soloing...

Up until this last patch AR with pistols was 2100 to 2600, at 2600 ar I had 8k hp, ask a range advy how landing burst/fa/fling is with 2400 ar (average hp/ar mix setup.)

The new dog that requires 2147 MC/TS to cast has 24,000 HP. To get from that HP/AR setup to the nano casting setup (which btw includes control eye) I need to swap 9 items on 2 tabs, in slots that cant be hot bar swapped. Thats the new uber dog that last 20s vs a soldier... Yeah... damn over powering engines, why dont we just go back to making your carb, or better yet leave the game and let it die due to no one to do tradeskills.

For the record, at time of writing this I have 2100 AR, but I dont have the augmep which i'm sure would put it around 2600 to 3k ar. (which only has burst and normal hits, our only perks that use pure ar are the everyone line AI perks.)

[Nubs]

The reason the devs don't say anything is because we are ripping the items out of the database, which shouldn't be happening. Technically, we aren't even supposed to know what we get, but us, being whiny people who enjoy complaining, always want to know beforehand.

And we do know, it's as easy as making a comparison dump of the DB and uploading it to the interwebs, then everyone knows exactly what's coming next patch.

FC can't put in any surprises, that's why.

[kuznechik]

ok, so looking at the WHOLE community, my pets having 100 points lower req to cast effects NO ONE but engies and every engie (apart from one) says these reqs are not suitable for todays BS environment.

Every engie that post on forums except one (aka me). Honestly - if I wasn't engi prof I will stop posting on forums aswell. A bit tired of few drama queens throwing mud on each other aka engi community.

Engi nanos are fine. It's not FC fault that after getting 150 more nanoskills from LE in form of research/better symbs and getting loads of nanoskill-buffing items also - you still fail to cast nanos that have 100 points more reqs compared to pre-LE.

P.S.: Devs answered. Partly - in closed parts of forums. Partly - on IRC. Partly - in private chat. Devs generally don't post in 17.10 or whatever part of forums. And FC' CS is kinda lacking people (Pharamond left, Tarib nowhere to be seen, Famine prolly on vacation), so there is noone to go put some update for you. Guess I'll open little secret and say that bulls eye will be updated with like 99% probability.

P.P.S.: With all forum-pvp engineers turning into drama queens - will it make me drama queen prof?

[IHaveHugeNick]

Every engie that post on forums except one (aka me). Honestly - if I wasn't engi prof I will stop posting on forums aswell. A bit tired of few drama queens throwing mud on each other aka engi community.

Engi nanos are fine. It's not FC fault that after getting 150 more nanoskills from LE in form of research/better symbs and getting loads of nanoskill-buffing items also - you still fail to cast nanos that have 100 points more reqs compared to pre-LE.

You're fired.

[Mastablasta]

Whoa, completely missed Masta's post on engineers.

Acetylcholin has played 128 days 6 hours 0 minutes 38 seconds
Tech had some 300 days, I've canceled that account so I cant log it in to get a number.

Now, Ace was up until 3 months ago one of, if not the top engineer setup. It was IMPOSSIBLE, for me to solo any inf mob higher then 230. That's with 18k hp on me, mech and gad perked for heals, reflects on the pets and me chain spamming the new heal. So, we're not top in soloing...

Up until this last patch AR with pistols was 2100 to 2600, at 2600 ar I had 8k hp, ask a range advy how landing burst/fa/fling is with 2400 ar (average hp/ar mix setup.)

The new dog that requires 2147 MC/TS to cast has 24,000 HP. To get from that HP/AR setup to the nano casting setup (which btw includes control eye) I need to swap 9 items on 2 tabs, in slots that cant be hot bar swapped. Thats the new uber dog that last 20s vs a soldier... Yeah... damn over powering engines, why dont we just go back to making your carb, or better yet leave the game and let it die due to no one to do tradeskills.

For the record, at time of writing this I have 2100 AR, but I dont have the augmep which i'm sure would put it around 2600 to 3k ar. (which only has burst and normal hits, our only perks that use pure ar are the everyone line AI perks.)

So you can mix and match and get some kind of setup that will give you this or that advantage in this or that situation. I can't solo much in inferno either, I mean, just jumping one of the dragons at Frontier (or what's it called) would probably result in Remains of Mastablasta in a bout a few secoonds worth of combat. Doesn't mean I'm useless in other situations, but just that I'm not good at soloing... that I am untouchable in a team environment doesn't play into the equation...

[Rktim]

Every engie that post on forums except one (aka me). Honestly - if I wasn't engi prof I will stop posting on forums aswell. A bit tired of few drama queens throwing mud on each other aka engi community.

Engi nanos are fine. It's not FC fault that after getting 150 more nanoskills from LE in form of research/better symbs and getting loads of nanoskill-buffing items also - you still fail to cast nanos that have 100 points more reqs compared to pre-LE.

P.S.: Devs answered. Partly - in closed parts of forums. Partly - on IRC. Partly - in private chat. Devs generally don't post in 17.10 or whatever part of forums. And FC' CS is kinda lacking people (Pharamond left, Tarib nowhere to be seen, Famine prolly on vacation), so there is noone to go put some update for you. Guess I'll open little secret and say that bulls eye will be updated with like 99% probability.

P.P.S.: With all forum-pvp engineers turning into drama queens - will it make me drama queen prof?

<3 <3 <3

[Technogen]

Ok, for all 3 of you, and I'm serious. BESIDES actually casting the nanos, does engineer get ANY bonus from having nanoskills high enough to cast the nanos? This is a basic question, try and focus on just that question.

[Buffarse]

FC have stated a many many times over the years that there shouldn't be an expectation to cast the top nanos or use certain equipment without compromise elsewhere. I also see that the profs who have uncastable nanos generally changes over time.

While I'm not defending anything FC do, many professions have nanos which are either impossible to cast (Shade, Soldier that I know of) or completely impractical to cast with any sort of reasonable compromise (i.e. gimping yourself to hell)

Peoples perspective, motives and opinions are inherantly self serving and many people on the forums really need to stop ranting and go with the flow a bit more. Profession power shifts from time to time and a realisation that you shouldn't be able to cast everything without (considerable) compromise and that you can't kill everyone (and indeed are very easy to kill by some) would be good. Remember that if you can't cast the nano, no one else in your profession can either.

There is a strong argument for not putting in nanos you can't cast into the game at all and theres certainly a wider issue of potential class imbalance. Theres not, however, really an argument for comparing one new nano with another and drawing conclusions from it. On my sold I may be able to cast the new init buff nano but do you really think the extra 20 fling or additional init makes any difference at all? Believe me, as I'm 1/1 in full defence already iand use a dshark t makes zero difference. Being able to cast them doesn't make them useful...

Buff

[Avari]

Ok, for all 3 of you, and I'm serious. BESIDES actually casting the nanos, does engineer get ANY bonus from having nanoskills high enough to cast the nanos? This is a basic question, try and focus on just that question.

That question sounds awfully funny Nobody gains any benefit from a skill except the benefits that skill grants. Goes for equipping weapons, armor and casting nanos. It's your job to reflect upon wether the IP spending is worth the equipment/tool you gain. There's no law that you have to be able to cast all your nanos. If you deem a nano worthless, then you're not forced into raising the skills required to use it.

You have to choose if you wanna sacrifice a part of your setup to be able to cast the new nanos. If you don't think the nano is worth that, then you should keep your setup, and if you think it's worth it, then go for it. Maybe it's FCs intention that you can't have both? Just like some profs have to choose between weapons. I use an AS weapon in PvP which means the ELLTS is the better item for me in Hud 3, but I'd very much like to be able to use the 1k HP Research item too. I made a choice though, and for that I gotta sacrifice 1k HP in order to fully utilize another part of my tool set.

Wether or not engineers need an addition to their tool set that everyone can use is a very different discussion imo, and not one I'd like to participate in.

[Tethien]

Peoples perspective, motives and opinions are inherantly self serving and many people on the forums really need to stop ranting and go with the flow a bit more. Profession power shifts from time to time and a realisation that you shouldn't be able to cast everything without (considerable) compromise and that you can't kill everyone (and indeed are very easy to kill by some) would be good. Remember that if you can't cast the nano, no one else in your profession can either.

Actually on the whole "balance" discussion, i always am somewhat amused. I don't know how many people here still know MUDs (Multi User Dungeons), which were the non-graphical predecessors of MMOGs. Together with some friends, i had one set up and running some years ago and we did a nice experiment there.

We had 3 different priest guilds, which in MMOGs would represent 3 different caster professions. They all had a set of miracles which were healing people, hurting people, providing protection, the whole package. For the good priests, they did it all nice and beautifully, the neutral priests were all about honor, fire and battle, the evil ones were tearing at souls, spilling blood and the likes.

Unknown by the playerbase, we actually only had one priest guild coded, we only had different descriptions for the miracles in the DB to make people believe that they had a different toolset. We as administrators of the game regularily had players argue on our forum, which priest branch was most powerful, they petitioned that the attack special of the evils would have to be nerfed while the one of the good needs improvement, etc.

To our players, the different priest professions were "clearly unbalanced", despite they used the exactly same code. Thus i usually read balance discussion with some amusement. I know that when i evaluate balance as a player, i am usually well off, but it helps me to know that 95% of the vocal playerbase normally is even further off. (And thus i also understand very well, why developers are very careful when listening to players feedback on the topic of balance. )

[kuznechik]

Ok, for all 3 of you, and I'm serious. BESIDES actually casting the nanos, does engineer get ANY bonus from having nanoskills high enough to cast the nanos? This is a basic question, try and focus on just that question.

1. You will get benefit from these nanos' effects. Like... You casted better dog and it chews enemies away faster.
2. You will get benefit in few perk AR (tick, full frontal, medallion).

Now tell me, and I'm serious. BESIDES actually casting iMongo, does enforcer get ANY bonus from having nanoskills high enough to cast iMongo? This is a basic question, try and focus on just that question.

[Technogen]

Ok now your pulling shat out of your rear, its been cleared that the new dog does NOT do faster attacks, the new dog is Only an HP raise. Seriously I'm banging my head on my desk tring to figure out how you can even remotely compair those.

Tell you what Kuz do what I said in the other thread, take your silverback off, swap to Pistol, or your beloved Tradeskill weapon and then come back and tell me you enjoy using it in PvP with pets that do not even remotely attack fast enough to be effective. If you can Honestly come back here and tell me you enjoy pvping with 8-10k hp so you can cast these nanos, I will 100% back use getting nanos that have 2300 cast requirements.

[Uaintseenme]

its been cleared that the new dog does NOT do faster attacks, the new dog is Only an HP raise.

Not 100% accurate, its got a slight dmg increase too...



Somewhere around the dmg range our 219 puppy was at before it got nerfed.
its also a fraction of a second slower than our 219 dog, but not realy enough to effect dd results unless you are trying to solo something with a hp bar the size of the beast.

[Technogen]

IC, well nice of them to give us our dog back, but with higher requirements....

[Uaintseenme]

yes its pretty much content that we had taken away from us 3 patches ago with a bit of a hp boost and a new white mesh.

Why we couldnt have just had a hp boost on our old 219 pet instead of a nerfing is giving me bad logic induced headaches.

Can anyone remember what justification was given for the nerfing of our old dog?
Just intrested to know why it was nerfed and then what massive change in game caused them to rethink the nerfing and then serve a fix up under the banner of "new content"