Crit changes in 14.2

[Beartwo]

Originally posted by Nakomis
Bear, they don't give INSANE crits, no more so than burst or fling or dimach do. And if you don't give non combat classes a way to do good damage, how are they gonna play? It's not like there is anything non combat for them to do to level. Unfortunately.

Catch ya planetside.

They should not crit as high as trained martial artists, soldiers and agents....weapons/combat are our way of life...our only way of life.
The one good thing that has happened is team missions. They have provided a way for non combat classes to lvl in the way they should, by supporting the those who do the fighting instead of outdamaging them.
Previously it was perhaps neccesary for traders/docs etc to have a way to do a LOT of damage. that reason is now gone. Whatever Funcom says....soloing this game to lvl 200 is virtually impossible...unless you do 35% missions all the time.... bah

Regardless of other statements.. the fact remains that an Itchaca crits as high as a HGB.... at ranges far beyond the HGB... SOmething is VERY wrong there!!!

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Beartwo


They should not crit as high as trained martial artists, soldiers and agents....weapons/combat are our way of life...our only way of life.
The one good thing that has happened is team missions. They have provided a way for non combat classes to lvl in the way they should, by supporting the those who do the fighting instead of outdamaging them.
Previously it was perhaps neccesary for traders/docs etc to have a way to do a LOT of damage. that reason is now gone. Whatever Funcom says....soloing this game to lvl 200 is virtually impossible...unless you do 35% missions all the time.... bah

Regardless of other statements.. the fact remains that an Itchaca crits as high as a HGB.... at ranges far beyond the HGB... SOmething is VERY wrong there!!!

There is nothing wrong with Shotguns. ANY profession can weild weapons. It's just the way the game was designed. Either you will have people with Shotguns, Pistols, SMGs, Rifles, Assault Rifles, Beams or WHATEVER you could think of. Shotguns are a very poor choice in most cases anyway, but people hear from other people they are good and fear being gimped so they use them.

With the new changes to Martial Arts, you'de be surprised how much damage your itty bitty fists can do now.

[_________haniblecter]

Originally posted by Oxo
k all you ppl saying it wont effect a thing you must be either a MA or under lvl 120 or soomethin. when u get to like 160+ and have to fight aces/real means in missions that have 300k + hp and then have a boss mob in team missions that you cant hit except for crits, then u see what im sayin. and for the dumb doc who posted about soloing have fun soloin when u have 25mil to lvl and see if you can solo once u get to be these lvl anymore. k.

it takes a good damaging team with crit buffs to kill a team mission boss mob about 5min.

bottom line is it will efect pvm no matter what your arguments are

Your not diggin deeper homey to the root of the rot.

Mobs are soo strong BECAUSE OF CRITS. Reduce the amount of crits and you reduce the need for mega mobs.

[Skymarshal]

Well, I have talked to a few people about this and Ill tell you that It will be extreemly hard for most people to kill healing classes, if they cant hea them self, and near impossible to kill an MP/MA.


Why do I say this, well its because crits are the things that let you outdamage the amount of helling they can do. I once fought a doc in a fair duel. I didnt see her health go below 50% the whole time, I was not crit buffed and im pretty sure she wasnt eiither. I watched my MK shield tic away, and her health not budge. Then MK drop and I got killed. Considering that this doc was 15 levels below me, and that I am using a nova, and flashpoint... this is pretty sad. This is the way that things will be from now on. MP/Docs/MAs will just kill everyone.

And befor you go of saying anything about me being a PvPer and that i dont care about balance, ill tell you that im currently untitled.... and all I do is mission most of the time.... but every now ans then a lil bit of PvP is fun.

[______________Saille]

Originally posted by cson
And don't start up with me; I need those guns equiped before I go roleplay.

[______________Saille]

Originally posted by Aaleji


Well perhaps it's the fact that Martial Artists just got element based damage, consider that they have specials such as shen, BwT, BoP and AotS that are so severely OE'ed a low levels that it's ridiculous level 90's with ql 160 shens and even higher BwT's. BTW my post wasn't totally MA bashing, I am bashing FC for not helping any other profession. On a more realistic point, how could someone's fists, fire or not do more damage than a shotgun? Then again, why bother not much makes sense anymore in the world on AO ...

Fact: MAs that are using elemental damage from fists report that damage is actually lower in many cases while using fists nano formulas.

Fact: BWT requires tremendous Parry at high level. I have maximum parry at L157 + Full QL200 parry implants and I can still not use a QL200 BWT. If you are a low level MA that does not max Parry, you are not overequipping a BWT by much and even so the damage is quite small. QL200 is only 500 for 6 ticks, 1 per 10 seconds. Consider how much damage most other classes are doing in 10 seconds.

Fact: If you are an MA and use a weapon, you cannot use any of those special attacks. And even if you do use the special attacks, most refresh rates are ridiculous to the point of un-usability. Speaking of refresh rates...

Fact: Shen is useable once every 30 minutes for semi decent damage over a 2 minute period. All special attacks are unavailable for 30 minutes. It also requires extremely high dimach which few MAs get at low level because they need so many nanoskills and evades. Most MAs will never get a maximum Shen because the dimach requirement requires implants and the tradeoff would be Life.

Fact: As it is right now, Traders consistently outdamage MAs (fist nano formulas and all!) at all levels. ALL. When they are running UVC, of course.

So bash away. But I thought you might like to have some of these facts at your disposal.

[Gunnandahalf]

I think this is a good move... in PVM it is too dam easy to level...
and if you dont think it is your silly.. there are only 200 levels in the game, i rerolled as a trader and am level 119 in 5 days and 12 hours of game play time...

as nice as that is, it is a bit quick considering there are only 200 levels! and for pvp crits buffs are overpowerered, i hope the crit buffs that are not self only are 10% max, because with a lvl 200 scope that would still be 25% and too much IMO.

[__________Spacegipsy]

Originally posted by DaveDread
Have a look at this one folks:

Quote from Sensei at www.thepunchingbag.net

*snip*

Martial Artist: There has been a change to the existing MA critical increase buff line. These are now self-only and can only be executed by martial artists (not agents under false profession). 3 new MA critical increase buffs have been added that can be executed on others, but are lower in power than the existing buffs (this new line does not stack with the older versions)]

End of quote, rest of mail is MA specific.


And a quote from Tekkor at www.agentsector.com

[I just received this email a few minutes ago from Cosmik. It gives a sneak peek at some of the changes coming for agents in 14.2.

[SNIP]

- Agents: added two new lines of self-only critical hit increase buffs - Concentration and Sureshot. Check out the boss monsters in team missions, they might be carrying one.]

End of quote, rest of mail is Agent specific.

So, I guess the crit bandwagon is getting a haulover. Anyone else thinking that 14.2 will be the patch of the century? 8P

/DaveDread
141 MA

This has me worried a lot because of several reasons.
Let me list them one by one:

1) Right now - in PvP - MAs are kinda uber *as is*. With worse crit buffs for other profs this will get even more imbalanced.
In addition to OE-nerf the ruling classes in PvP will be traders, MAs and maybe Docs (unless the Doc has to go against a trader). You call this balanced? I sure don't.
I don't PvP much.. so I guess I could care less, but here comes
2) Without a good crit buff it will take even longer to kill mobs - this will make hunting and missioning even more dull than it is right now.
3) Agent-specific: I assume that the *new* MA Critbuffs will be *real* MAs only and not castable by agents in FP (as are most new nanos).
*If* this assumption is correct, we'll be even less needed/wanted in teams than right now. I assume further that even *with* our self-only new buffs we won't be able to deal the damage that a soldier and/or enforcer can. Right now we mostly get invited to groups to assume FP MA and do the crit-buff - with this gone - who is going to want us?

Last..
@ Gunnandahalf - as someone who has exploited at least part of his way to Lvl 200, you have the guts to tell us that levelling is too fast??? LOL?
I don't know about your new char... but I could bet he's twinked to the maxx and powerlevelled - (well of course a trader - one of the few profs that will still stand a chance in PvP *and* OEing after 14.2) - your average *John Doe Player* will *not* level up this fast.

[______________Blanch]

Must people I see say make critical buff self only are ones that die in pvp constantly. Really reguardless if they make buff self only I will probably still kill you this only makes me more powerful. Again the people who wont team without an MA yet they want critical buff self only ? Funcom will have do something about mob hp before I would accept this nerf.

[Kinkstaah]

@ SpaceGipsy.

Um, Gun solo'ed his way to 200, you realise it can take at most a day and a half to get from 199 to 200?

The game was planned over a 4 year period, at the END we were to *maybe* have a *few* 200's.

The casual gamer is *intended* to be behind the power gamer in terms of levels for this game. That is how it is *supposed* to work.

I'm sorry, if you dont think levelling is too fast, then gawd, you must really be a casual gamer because as a powergamer this game has absolutely no avenues for advancement when it should if you are prepared to put in a lot of time.

I honestly hope that some day FC implement a level cap of 250, and make the levels 1-200 for the "semi-casual player" (as it is now) and make 200-250 for the *real* powergamer 18hr/day crazy mofos that will spend 2yrs+ on 50 levels.

I know I'd never get there myself, but it IS a slap in the face to all power gamers by having such an easy level cap (especially when it's not intended to be)

[__________Spacegipsy]

Sorry, but I don't buy it - we *all* know that *most* (I'm not saying *all* but *most*) players that are Lvl 200 now, have exploited (taken *easy* ways) at one point or another. Some clearly admitted to it here on the boards.

Yes, I'm a casual player, I'm Lvl 161 now and my *played* time is way above other players at the same Lvl.

Raising the cap to 250 and making it *extremely* hard to Lvl past 200 might be a feasible way ..... BBBUUUUTTTT.... there are points that speak against this: as I mentioned before Levelling is boring and dull as hell... as long as there aren't more varieties of things to do in order to level - does anybody want more of it? Seriously?
And then what? In *every* game - as hard as it might be - the powergamers will reach those goals faster than the rest.. but should games be made harder because of the minority of powergamers? I don't think so.

2nd: PvP - it already consists mostly of ganking - where lvl 150 players gank Lvl 100 Players, or Lvl 200 gank 150s and since PvP is also imbalanced as hell (and this new patch won't make that any much better) - doesn't sound like fun to me to be somewhat longer among those who will be the victims and only the powergamers will have any chance in PvP.
The Lvl-Limit should exist throughout the game (imho).
Of course we could all opt out of PvP - as most have already - but whereas some ppl (like me) don't mind not being able to PvP - quite a few do, because it's an important part of the game for them..

So... not really such a good idea after all ...

[haurob]

Not even funcom would even consider such changes.. even an incompetent game director could forsee the result of such nerfing... massive amounts of players doing the /flip and leaving the game.

And i dont think the ppl at funcom are that braindead...

But you never know...

[_______________Airri]

Originally posted by DaveDread
My main character is an MA and the crit change will perhaps make us wanted in groups primarily as damage dealers, not as portable crit scopes.

Sorry to say that, but if Crits arent that important anymore, I'lll always choose an Enforcer or Soldier in my Team as Damage Dealer, not an MA. From this point, this patch can be an MA nerf. :-) But I dont think, that your new Crit(other) buffs will be that weak.

It will also halt the "insert-insane-crit-damage-gun-here" thingie that everybody is going for atm. This means diversification, which is good.

Good point, but this can only be resolved by removing all crit buffs from the game, and this means a new game since AO relys on crits. Its a design fault.


Airri

[Gunnandahalf]

haha have a cry :P leveling is too fast, even if I wasnt a trader i would still be the same level...

14.2 will help that, no more super pets at lvl 90, no more uvc at lvl 100 it is too easy to level with those buffs/pets. Even tho it is nice and all, it doesnt make it too challenging to level.

it was alot harder before they increased monster xp by more than double.. dont know why they changed it

[________BrontoCowboy]

I've come to get used to 1 thing in this game, and it's put my mind at ease about this type of thing:

"Everything is an exploit."

LLTS were obvisously an exploit, as they've been taken out of the game. Crit buffs were obviously exploits. Concealment was an exploit so they made it useless. Burst was an exploit, so they cut in half the damage burst does...

Basically, there's no difference between "game mechanics" and "exploiting" in this game... So no matter what you plan on doing, make sure you have plenty of time to do it before the next patch comes, keep quiet about it, and milk it for all it's worth.. because the next patch or the one after that will nerf it.

That's the way it is, period. If you can live with that/work with it, then you can play AO... if not, see ya in SWG.

[_________Kalashnakof]

A 1 req gun such as a HD or vecktor with a scope and crit buff easily matches a nova flow which requires 4 skills. 3 times the IP for the same result? A trader can heal, debuff and increase the AR greatly, area root and outrange you, and has a huge number of highly desirable buffs. Also BTW they do jus as much damage as you. A doc can heal anything u throw at him ini debuff and cast decent DoTs. BTW they do jus as much damage as you (you being the so-called combat class) This should not be so.
If crits were what they were supposed to be, rare that is a step in the direction of ever elusive balance.

[ What Else Is Needed ]
- heals and debuffs 50% in PvP
- Roots with shorter duration that break more easily
- Mobs reduced in ac and power and their damage shields toned down
- Much more variety in weapons

Kalashnakof 116 soldier

PS to bereheart the whiny soldier if you feel gimped your gun is too small. Properly equiped soldiers deal equal damage or noticablely better damage vs lower ac mobs and can solo quite well compared to say a agent.

[-Zagadka-]

I agree. Doc combat ability is a bit too strong... but I don't think ti is a class issue. I've seen Docs be FAR too powerful as combat classes - we are designed as a support class, and that is how I play it. I see a lot of Docs get a Vek ql twice their level with an uber scope, get some crit buffs, and yawn.

[______________Saruzi]

Y'know, not trying to start an arguement, but some classes never seem to get mentioned. I haven't heard much or anything about the following classes in this thread: 'Crats, NTs.
Hehe, no one wants to talk about what effects 14.2 will have on the crat? C'mon, I haven't played one, but they don't deserve this.
And the NT, yea, now they are PvP possible, since they can't OE and nano costs aren't made to 50% in PvP, only the damage. Yea! Half the damage for the same nano cost! Oh wait, I won't run out of nano, because the debuff just threw me down 50 levels! no worry there! Wait, I'm not against a Trader? I'm against anyone else? Wow, still got owned. 14.2 will fix some of this, or at least tilt it.
Anyways, they should put a new crit buff in, a 200% DoT crit buff. First, every hit you do does critical damage, and every time you appear at a respawn the damage hits again. This will prevent players from complaining they see the reclaim too much. A white screen of death is so much more comforting.
I love hearing people complain:

"What? They are making us use lvl 80-90 armor when I'm at level 80? Thats not acceptable! I must use lvl 150 stuff at lvl 80! Where is FC's logic"
My words: Haha!

"What? The rare critical attacks are becoming rarer? I mean, I already can't crit every hit, what do they want me to do? Normal damage? Normal damage is for MAs and NTs, not the non combat classes!"
My words:Haha! HA!


"What? I can't Implant step anymore? Why is cheating taken out of the game? Its their fault if they didn't fix it right away! I mean, whatever happened to the 5 second rule? If they didn't fix and patch it right away it shouldn't be patched at all!"
My words:Haha! HAHA!

[_________Evangelique]

Originally posted by KrisKo

[ What Else Is Needed ]
- heals and debuffs 50% in PvP
- Roots with shorter duration that break more easily
- Mobs reduced in ac and power and their damage shields toned down
- Much more variety in weapons

Kalashnakof 116 soldier

PS to bereheart the whiny soldier if you feel gimped your gun is too small. Properly equiped soldiers deal equal damage or noticablely better damage vs lower ac mobs and can solo quite well compared to say a agent.

I just want to say that enforcers can now break roots after patch. Self buffed at higher levels they have 10,000 hit points. They also can buff Nanoresist by more than 1200+, some 1400! Not to mention their dmg shield does 170+ dmg EACH hit right back at you. As an NT, roots NEED to stick. It is literally impossible to dent a monster with such stats....And you want roots to break easier? Get real.
MY 800 skill in two stats SHOULD be good for something. Thats the req to cast our best root. And you want it to break after the first hit? Bah. WHATEVER!

[_________Evangelique]

Originally posted by Bronto_Cowboy
I've come to get used to 1 thing in this game, and it's put my mind at ease about this type of thing:

"Everything is an exploit."

LLTS were obvisously an exploit, as they've been taken out of the game. Crit buffs were obviously exploits. Concealment was an exploit so they made it useless. Burst was an exploit, so they cut in half the damage burst does...

Basically, there's no difference between "game mechanics" and "exploiting" in this game... So no matter what you plan on doing, make sure you have plenty of time to do it before the next patch comes, keep quiet about it, and milk it for all it's worth.. because the next patch or the one after that will nerf it.

That's the way it is, period. If you can live with that/work with it, then you can play AO... if not, see ya in SWG.

AMEN, BROTHER! PREACH ON!