Just curious because I see a lot of professions that are supposed to be a support class are acting and are being played more like a combat class. So what classes make up the support characters now?
Just curious because I see a lot of professions that are supposed to be a support class are acting and are being played more like a combat class. So what classes make up the support characters now?
There's a reason for thatOriginally posted by Graxxus
Just curious because I see a lot of professions that are supposed to be a support class are acting and are being played more like a combat class. So what classes make up the support characters now?
I dont know or care what games you guys who use this arguement
were playing before AO . . but in AO, every class is a combat class.
There is no other way to level.
maybe doctors can get away with a non-offensive role,
as teams will always want them even if they are unarmed,
and so they could still level that way. but docs are the exception.
Then why do people keep reiterating that my class (agent) isn't a combat class? I keep hearing that the agent class is a support class character and shouldn't expect to deal damage. So why am I playing this character? To self buff myself? A lot of good that'll do when every time ya find a way to get by it is taken away or nerfed. It's frustrating agents have dark blue body dev, dark blue evades, no self heal abilities in agent form, combat casting is a joke, concealment works marginally at best, we draw aggro when we do fight(even when we aren't doing the most damage) only way for us to heal ourselves is to use heal pets which will be taken away soon, rifle damage is a joke(especially considering their clip size and gun speed), range was nerfed, aimed shot was nerfed, the only use of roots and snares are in PvP, our DOTs just plain suck and they don't stack, don't get me started on trade skills because ours are essentially non existant. Everything just adds up till I'm wondering what is my role again? I used to know but now it just seems that every ability that the agent once had has been devalued over time or its going to be taken away soon.
Last edited by Graxxus; Mar 26th, 2002 at 22:23:15.
I hate to say it, but I don't see anything there that seems incorrect. I don't see too many agents around these days... It seemed that everyone was an agent back in the day... The numbers just seem to go between whatever class is currently "uber."Originally posted by Graxxus
Then why do people keep reiterating that my class (agent) isn't a combat class? I keep hearing that the agent class is a support class character and shouldn't expect to deal damage. So why am I playing this character? To self buff myself? A lot of good that'll do when every time ya find a way to get by it is taken away or nerfed. It's frustrating agents have dark blue body dev, dark blue evades, no self heal abilities in agent form, combat casting is a joke, concealment works marginally at best, we draw aggro when we do fight(even when we aren't doing the most damage) only way for us to heal ourselves is to use heal pets which will be taken away soon, rifle damage is a joke(especially considering their clip size and gun speed), range was nerfed, aimed shot was nerfed, the only use of roots and snares are in PvP, our DOTs just plain suck and they don't stack, don't get me started on trade skills because ours are essentially non existant. Everything just adds up till I'm wondering what is my role again? I used to know but now it just seems that every ability that the agent once had has been devalued over time or its going to be taken away soon.
In the end, we'll all be left playing 1 class... Then maybe they'll figure it out...
I feel your pain Graxxus. I've been playing my agent for 134 levels and I am getting very disheartened that all my hard work is for nothing.
It is so true that there really is NO support class. You either deal damage or go find a team that will let you leach xp.
I am waiting for the agent fix patch with sickening anticipation. For I fear it will bring along more "hidden" nerfs. Agents suck at conceal atm, but FC sure knows how to pull it off.
Preach on brother! All I am now is a flexible buff monkey!
I was one of the people who believe that FC had a "secret" 12.0 patch just before launch....he he.
You start to think that the Shrooms are wearing off and then you look at the ceiling and realize you got a few hours.
i think that the "support class" issue was raised because the classes that were supposed to be 'weaker' in combat (i.e.; doctor, trader,etc.) are sooo uber now that they dont need the tank classes almost at all any more. Why make a soldier who can use a Nova Flow and buff some ranged skills (MK shield is still nice, tho) when u can make a doctor who will deal the same if not better damage with his snakeman/queen special/missile pistols, and can heal, DoT, HoT, AND init debuff? Im not sayin nerf 'em, im just sayin do something to make the pure fighting classes better without also making casters extra-uber cuz they can use anything a soldier can
What he say´d.Originally posted by Graxxus
Then why do people keep reiterating that my class (agent) isn't a combat class? I keep hearing that the agent class is a support class character and shouldn't expect to deal damage. So why am I playing this character? To self buff myself? A lot of good that'll do when every time ya find a way to get by it is taken away or nerfed. It's frustrating agents have dark blue body dev, dark blue evades, no self heal abilities in agent form, combat casting is a joke, concealment works marginally at best, we draw aggro when we do fight(even when we aren't doing the most damage) only way for us to heal ourselves is to use heal pets which will be taken away soon, rifle damage is a joke(especially considering their clip size and gun speed), range was nerfed, aimed shot was nerfed, the only use of roots and snares are in PvP, our DOTs just plain suck and they don't stack, don't get me started on trade skills because ours are essentially non existant. Everything just adds up till I'm wondering what is my role again? I used to know but now it just seems that every ability that the agent once had has been devalued over time or its going to be taken away soon.
BUMP!
I think the problem is that this game's skill system allows all classes the ability to use every skill if they so choose but it's nano system makes the casting classes more unique from the others becaus nano programs are restricted by class.
Anyone can pick up rifle and aimed shot and be a sniper, they can get the TIM scope which is widely regarded as an agent item and they do almost as good of a job.
Anyone can get a nova flow or two riders and run into combat. It will cost them a lot of IP, but they can do it. And Anyone can wear any armor no matter their breed or profession, so anyone can have great AC.
But...
Not everyone can heal. Not everyone can root. Not everyone can use a robot to tank for them. Not everyone can cast a powerful reflect shield or fly without a plane.
We've come to the point where all classes are defined by their nano programs. If you want a soldier who can heal himself, make a doctor with a nova. If you want a sniper who can use nukes to blow things up, make an NT with a rifle... Not enough HP? Make an atrox.
I happen to like that my crat can use a shotgun, or a flashpoint if he wants ro r00l pvp.. But those classes that don't have very good nano skills or don't have terribly good nanos to begin with, they lose their flavor.
An MP can sneak missions as well as an agent, everyone and their mother can teleport into the grid...
Funcom is on the road to allowing classes to be unique, by taking away MP pets from agents, by giving fixers tons of fixer only items, by doing a lot of specific things or by adding a lot of new nanos that aren't accessable from false profession and are unique to a class.
What they need to remember is that even though everyone is a casting class in this game, they should try to concentrate on adding abilities to a class that aren't nanos yet still make them unique. This includes cutting off things from other classes.
Perhaps they should add new items that don't have a requirement of a certain class, but gain new interesting abilities when used by a certain class instead.
Fixers are making a great support class in escaping!
Thats about all they're decent at
100% damage in PVP 40% caps and a big crit nurf to all classes.
That's all it takes to put the primary combat classes back on top =]
tru tru
tone down crits
make MA crit self only and combat classes a small self only
make specials more effective vs higher lvl mobs atm they are barely worth the IP
I think that that's a wonderful idea. It would give weapons some of the uniqueness of nano-formulas without taking too many things away from other classes. The soldier should be able to do more with a nova flow (besides training cheaper and higher) than a doctor (or, for that matter, any other profession, really) should.Originally posted by senatorjesse
I think the problem is that this game's skill system allows all classes the ability to use every skill if they so choose but it's nano system makes the casting classes more unique from the others becaus nano programs are restricted by class.
...
Perhaps they should add new items that don't have a requirement of a certain class, but gain new interesting abilities when used by a certain class instead.
It also kind of relates back to Lacaan's idea (he hasn't posted here yet, I don't think, but I remember him saying this once) that dual-wield should have its own specials. That's a bit of an adventurer thing, but it's along the same lines.
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"I know you miss the Wainwrights, Bobby, but they were weak and stupid people - and that's why we have wolves and other large predators." - A caption from Gary Larson's The Far Side
First off, Ithaca gun isn't God (it's decent), and Krutt Assault flat out sucks. Shotguns are nice, but unless you are buffed and using psycho implants, you are NOT GOING TO CRITICAL WITH A BLUE SKILL WEAPON. Trust me, I've tried. Whether you critical or not depends on two things. One, your skill in relation to mob's level/evasions, and 2, any critical buffs you got. I went full q125 shotgun implants at around lvl 80 (not godly, but decent), and I maxed shotgun skill with my doctor so I could use a q125 Fandango (not really for the dmg, but for the really good int that was on it). You know how many criticals I got? About 1 every 50 shots. That's not going to make up for the Fandango's generally ****ty damage (6-150 2.5/2.5??? LOL????). So when you crack smokers brag about Krutt Assault being a great gun, hah, try it out you wankers. Looking good on paper and actually performing well is another story.Originally posted by Bartleby
i think that the "support class" issue was raised because the classes that were supposed to be 'weaker' in combat (i.e.; doctor, trader,etc.) are sooo uber now that they dont need the tank classes almost at all any more. Why make a soldier who can use a Nova Flow and buff some ranged skills (MK shield is still nice, tho) when u can make a doctor who will deal the same if not better damage with his snakeman/queen special/missile pistols, and can heal, DoT, HoT, AND init debuff? Im not sayin nerf 'em, im just sayin do something to make the pure fighting classes better without also making casters extra-uber cuz they can use anything a soldier can
As for Doc's soloing, we can, but it's rough, and the xp is wicked bad compared to being in a group. At 116, I can solo even or lower npc's as long as they are not enforcers. I got around 600 MA skill, and time/space geared implants (for best HoT's.) You gotta keep in mind that any nano you use to dot or slow means you got less nano energy to use for heals. Dots are siginificant mana eaters, double dot'ing is like 25% nano use. And personally I don't see -1200 intiaitives actually affect the monster at all (yes, even now) The fights tend to be close, but do-able.
I'm still curious what funcom has in mind for us. What is an agent's role? An NT's role? A fixer's role?
An agent and an NT are very very similar in regard to our low hitpoints and low evasion skills ie dark blue skills. Yet we get aggro constantly when we do any decent damage while fulfilling our currently perceived role in a group. Agents and NTs aren't supposed to be tanks, then why do we get aggro from the mobs then? Why do we get killed because no one can taunt all the mobs off us in time? Ideally we should be able to deal a large amount of damage in chunks and once we get aggroed the actual tanks should regain the aggro by taunting the mob off of us. NTs at least have some calm nanos (when they work) and roots to help out. Why aren't all calm nanos as effective as trader calms? One would think Funcom would use schemes that work well rather than ones that don't.
Also is it me or do opifex characters get aggroed more than other breeds? Its something I've been noticing atrox characters lose aggro fairly easily while opifex and nano gain aggro fairly easily. Anyone else notice this or is it just my imagination.
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