Originally posted by Kneebreakcer
Can't confirm on that as I haven't tried it. However, I don't think it will be a problem as other professions are now seeing their fist hit when they didn't used to while wielding weapons.
o thats going to make the high lvl soldiers real happy heheh
But im in a 200 blackjack already sitting in front of smugglers den eheh
Mas shall rule the day maybee for one dayat least hehe
get that wrangle tonight before every ma wants one tomorrow
And you dam well better not have to pay for it with all of the crit buffs you have given out.
Traders are the first to admit they are useless with out crit buff hehe stupid shotguns
on another note I was so happy on test today I interupted a cast on a mob I was only lvl 3 but still I interupted weeeeeeeeeee
Last edited by Aberic; Feb 27th, 2002 at 03:32:55.
woot! ma actually interupted? my stupid pet interupt more cast every week, than Azz have ever doneOriginally posted by meomy
get that wrangle tonight before every ma wants one tomorrow
And you dam well better not have to pay for it with all of the crit buffs you have given out.
Traders are the first to admit they are useless with out crit buff hehe stupid shotguns
on another note I was so happy on test today I interupted a cast on a mob I was only lvl 3 but still I interupted weeeeeeeeeee
I have already pretty much quit my lvl 170 MA. done. finished. will only use him to run missions for cash. If i have to do another mission in bs lag or even PM ill puke. If i have to die to a soldier 22 lvs below me...why play?
I have no reason for lvling. cant cast UVC pre lvl 190 due to skill caps. there are no weapons i desire to use. still rookie after 4 months of tryin. i could lvl 2 more times and get all my evades maxed cept nano resist..cuz it dont work...woo hoo.
shoot..even barbeegirl lvl 192 MA cant pvp worth a sh!t. she plays a crat now.
decided to lvl my apprentice trader. cant seem to get novice on him as there arent any apprentices or rookies that will ever fight me so decided to lvl. if they nerf traders ill quit AO alltogether probably.
liked playing my fixer..but they are near as gimped as MAs.
they did NOT fix the weapon bugs (not that i care cuz all MA weapons suck a$$ from what i have seen). My lvl 76 now trader can crit up to 3k and with the same lma or uvc he crits about 2 times as much as my MA.
from what i have read..they lowered MA dmg..raised max dmg some...seems like it everages out. How about having my attacks parried 5 times in a row on a mob..yet i have yet to parry anything. getttin owned by near every proffession out there in pvp.
just see no reason to lvl.
have fun.
buff shokker if u see him pls.
celistiness 170 MA clan rookie member of Eternal Fury
shokker 76 apprentice trader member of Tempest
lowtime 65 freshman fixer member of Lix of Fury
adios.
you make me sad... but if you insist... i shall rant you into oblvion
Why must everyone have their little diatribe about gimpedness of MAs, i know they have problems... so do other classes too, but is no need to go absolutely ape on the issue!
I have an enforcer, who used fast weapons, had same problem, i have an MA, suffers problems, i do not go on messege boards acting as if by playing MA, i have been through hell and back and deserve to be compensated for my suffering, both my enf and my MA simply foujnd ways around the problems, and if you can't do that, why are you playing the class. The MAs life is difficult, but if you actually put some thought into your character, instead of simply raising ma/brawl/dimach and implanting urself to insane lvls, and maybe thought... perhaps i should be original, you might have interesting and effective characters. i fixed my MA by making several new characters, and experimenting with different types of MA, and came to my own conclusions about how to make an effective character. There are actually some people who made effective MAs, just look at this thread, they've spoken up.
I'm not saying the class doesn't need fixing, i'm saying you people need to calm down and THINK, instead of getting angry and acting on hairbrained ideas about why funcom is evil and corrupt. at really high levels you may be stuck, but if by that time you aren't knowledgable enough about your class to have a good character, it's your own fault.
whenever i encounter a problem i go to one of my test MAs and work out a method to avoid it, i'll leave you to come up with your own, as each must find their own path.
My advice is to test, and think hard
We are pretty pissed off because of the sheer number of bugs affecting the MA. We reported these 1 week after release. It took us 8 months to get a few of them fixed.
Let's have a quick runthrough of the "standard" MA skills and their problems:
Offensive issues:
Martial Arts skill- Minimum Damage output. We all know what this is about.
Dimach - While useful at lower lvls it simply doesnt cut it PvM at lvl100+. It's causing half the damage of a trader crit every 30 minutes. Often whiffs or is parried.
MA special attacks - The only one people is using is Blessed with Thunder. The rest have really odd reqs and damage output, and locks MA skill for 7-17 minutes. We have a nice life-tap attack which still hurts the MA instead of healing us.
Ok, so an unarmed MA is having problems causing damage. Lets turn to weapons then.
MA weapons - Decent minimum damage. That's it. Compare to a Chesterfield Dining Chair, the Chair wins.
Sharp Objects - Not in the game.
Bow special attack - Causes the MA to wave goodbye at the wasted arrow.
And: the amazing Fist Drop bug. Zone/Buff/Get debuffed while wielding a weapon and your fists stop attacking.
Ok, so causing damage is hard. Let's avoid it then.
Riposte - Creates a 10second reflect shield, reflecting appx 1 point of damage per 100 skill.
Parry - Very few MA's parry anything. I have parried twice in 112 lvls.
Evades - Reduces crit chance against even lvl MOB's. Maxed and triple implanted I dont evade damage.
Phys Init - Well, I should be able to go more defensive and get more out of my maxed evades, right? Nope. If I go 90% aggro theres a sharp drop in attack speed. Oh, it's maxed and implanted at lvl112.
This is what we are talking about. These are most of the green/aqua skills that an MA has. None of them are working as we think they are supposed to work.
Imagine a Soldier in the same state.
Gun always hits for minimum damage.
Since Guns only cause minimum damage, new Soldier Guns are introduced which also cause minimum damage. Oh, they dont have fling/burst/. (MA weapons)
Full auto is on a 30 minute timer. (dimach)
Fling has a 1-500 damage range at QL200 weapon, which means 1 damage 90% of the time. (MA special attacks)
Everytime you zone, damage output is halved. (zone bug)
SMG's aren't in the game. (Sharp weapons)
On Rifles, fling doesn't work. Oh, they also require 1HB, fast attack, sneak attack. (Bow reqs and bow special attack).
MK shields work by removing crits on you and reflecting 2 points of damage. (evades, parry, riposte)
Range Init does not increase attack speed. (Phys init issue)
Don't you think the Soldier would be pretty pissed? Especially since he noticed all of these bugs in Beta, duly reported them and nothing at all happened for 8 months? True, this comparison is a bit wicked but you get the point right?
Now, we MA's just wanna get things working the way they are supposed to. It's our only chance for 8 months and if we have to wait 8 more months for the next look at our profession we better get most of this stuff done now. Minimum damage, Zone bug, bow special attack is fixed in 13.8, but we still have plenty of oddities going on. That's why we're screaming bloody murder.
Sure, we can go for lowlight scopes, use hammers/shotguns, implant madly for the sole purpose of getting next crit buff asap, but thats not very fun. Not much of the Bruce Lee/Ninja/dodgin'bullets/"whoopin ass with style thing" I thought about when I started my MA.
Think you say.
I want to Enjoy.
typingasfastasIcansinceIgottagotoworknow.
/DaveDread
Last edited by DaveDread; Feb 27th, 2002 at 11:55:01.
Nieth
Your fixed before the patch? Please tell me your over 75. I'm not trying to be an ass but those of us that are complaining are over 150 and ever since level 75 have watched other classes get stronger as we have managed to become weaker. Trust me the MA's here complaining have have gone to great lengths to try different things in order to work around these problems.
Takuan
Future Sword Saint of Rubi-Ka
Martial Artist
Storm
Excellent post. I suggest you submit it to feedback@anarchy-online.comOriginally posted by DaveDread
We are pretty pissed off because of the sheer number of bugs affecting the MA. We reported these 1 week after release. It took us 8 months to get a few of them fixed.
Let's have a quick runthrough of the "standard" MA skills and their problems:
Offensive issues:
Martial Arts skill- Minimum Damage output. We all know what this is about.
Dimach - While useful at lower lvls it simply doesnt cut it PvM at lvl100+. It's causing half the damage of a trader crit every 30 minutes. Often whiffs or is parried.
MA special attacks - The only one people is using is Blessed with Thunder. The rest have really odd reqs and damage output, and locks MA skill for 7-17 minutes. We have a nice life-tap attack which still hurts the MA instead of healing us.
Ok, so an unarmed MA is having problems causing damage. Lets turn to weapons then.
MA weapons - Decent minimum damage. That's it. Compare to a Chesterfield Dining Chair, the Chair wins.
Sharp Objects - Not in the game.
Bow special attack - Causes the MA to wave goodbye at the wasted arrow.
And: the amazing Fist Drop bug. Zone/Buff/Get debuffed while wielding a weapon and your fists stop attacking.
Ok, so causing damage is hard. Let's avoid it then.
Riposte - Creates a 10second reflect shield, reflecting appx 1 point of damage per 100 skill.
Parry - Very few MA's parry anything. I have parried twice in 112 lvls.
Evades - Reduces crit chance against even lvl MOB's. Maxed and triple implanted I dont evade damage.
Phys Init - Well, I should be able to go more defensive and get more out of my maxed evades, right? Nope. If I go 90% aggro theres a sharp drop in attack speed. Oh, it's maxed and implanted at lvl112.
This is what we are talking about. These are most of the green/aqua skills that an MA has. None of them are working as we think they are supposed to work.
Imagine a Soldier in the same state.
Gun always hits for minimum damage.
Since Guns only cause minimum damage, new Soldier Guns are introduced which also cause minimum damage. Oh, they dont have fling/burst/. (MA weapons)
Full auto is on a 30 minute timer. (dimach)
Fling has a 1-500 damage range at QL200 weapon, which means 1 damage 90% of the time. (MA special attacks)
Everytime you zone, damage output is halved. (zone bug)
SMG's aren't in the game. (Sharp weapons)
On Rifles, fling doesn't work. Oh, they also require 1HB, fast attack, sneak attack. (Bow reqs and bow special attack).
MK shields work by removing crits on you and reflecting 2 points of damage. (evades, parry, riposte)
Range Init does not increase attack speed. (Phys init issue)
Don't you think the Soldier would be pretty pissed? Especially since he noticed all of these bugs in Beta, duly reported them and nothing at all happened for 8 months? True, this comparison is a bit wicked but you get the point right?
Now, we MA's just wanna get things working the way they are supposed to. It's our only chance for 8 months and if we have to wait 8 more months for the next look at our profession we better get most of this stuff done now. Minimum damage, Zone bug, bow special attack is fixed in 13.8, but we still have plenty of oddities going on. That's why we're screaming bloody murder.
Sure, we can go for lowlight scopes, use hammers/shotguns, implant madly for the sole purpose of getting next crit buff asap, but thats not very fun. Not much of the Bruce Lee/Ninja/dodgin'bullets/"whoopin ass with style thing" I thought about when I started my MA.
Think you say.
I want to Enjoy.
typingasfastasIcansinceIgottagotoworknow.
/DaveDread
Agree, very good post DaveDreadOriginally posted by Zeroshift
Excellent post. I suggest you submit it to feedback@anarchy-online.com
ripped from a post i made on TPB. (and excellent post zeroshift)
I logged in tonight and did a QL 127 mission at L116. Other than one enforcer I cremated everything I fought.
Then I fought a 147 doc, qwert1 in the arena. It was in in fun. I know he kicks ass, and he's a doc. I just wanted to test our controlled damage vs his muscle debuffs. So anyway, it doesnt break them. Big surprise. Then he let me give it all I have for about 10 min straight. He didnt heal himself at all. I hit him with shen, and the kitchen sink. He never got below 3/4. He wasn't even healing himself. 10 minutes of hitting him, didnt get him below 3/4 and he wasn't healing. Now, I realize he's 147 to my 116. I have 823 MA skill however, and should be able to kill a doc who's just standing there. NOPE. CANNOT KILL HIM. It's that simple. I can't do it. Tell me that's not fubar. Then he attacked back and I was dead in 20 seconds. His crit (he had no crit buffs) was 923 or something like that, and he critted a LOT. Using a 14% lowlight he just owned me. It was actually pretty amusing.
Then I went hunting for katanas. I'd heard there was some buff salesman somewhere that was selling them. I immediately ran to the area behind the junkyard in agean and checked all the buff salesman NPCs. NO dice.
Back in the junkyard i noticed an NPC (mini junkbot) named nuts and bolts. I said hi and he said, something like "this conversation is turning lethal." ala trash king. I attacked him as he was orange, dimaching for 2500 and shening. He hit back for 595 on almost every hit. I must have done about 8000 damage to him and he was at 3/4. I figure he has about 30k HP. I died of course, and then he poofed.
Went back but all I found was the omni leader of the junkbots. He wouldnt tell me anything. Killed hima couple of times, barely, and with the help of a 133 advent. No loot.
On the bright side, he killed the advent the second time, as the advent attacked unexpectedly while I was trying to hit any quest phrases and got agro. He hits for 495 every hit. No variation. So at least we're a little better off than the advent in standing toe to toe with big hitters. Of course advents kill us, because they have damage shields so we take our own damage in addition to theirs. It's like attacking ourselves almost, but I've ranted about that one enough elsewhere.
My impression of this patch is, it is nice for lowbie MAs. GREAT!!! THEY SO NEEDED TO BE BETTER!! We all know low level MA's rock. I had had hopes that this would be linear, but my 116 MA is still a complete and utter icon of gimpdom. This patch sucks more ass than I can express, for two reasons. One: it broke a lot of other classes and introduced bugs. Two: it's our "love" patch. Gee great. FC won't ever acknowledge that they have any idea of how sucky we are as a supposed melee class. They either don't know, don't care, or don't have the ability to deal with it.
No MA 2HE weapons sucks.
No MA SA's while weilding a weapon sucks as well. Yay we can zone now, and this is nice. It removes a lot of hassle, however, MA's had been dealing with this forever. We were adept at dealing with it, actually. It was a pain, but doable. I'm glad this bug is gone, but the core problem remains: our damage output is subpar with our own fists, and MA weapons do crap damage.
Our damage sucks, and here's how. We are DESIGNED to do consistent medium damage over time with big crits. We do low damage with medium crits, and have NO time to do it in! Our evade skills should theoretically (intuitively, common sense would dictate) allow us to hang in there and AVOID big damage. Thus the high agility opifex model. Enforcers are tuned toward absorbtion. (e.g. great armor wearing abilities, buffs to soak damage, thorn sheilds, and HP buffs that heal)
We are meant to avoid damage, but do we?? Hell no we don't. We take the same damage as any other class, with no exceptions. In short, we have low staying power, so never get to rock our opponents. Our heals are nifty and all, but cannot even compete with high damage with their recharge rate. We suck at high levels. This patch did **** to fix that. I'm sorry I may have been optimistic in my test posts or worse made anyone else optimistic.
We can do 60% missions solo, but it takes more time than is fun, and that's what the game is all about. With the limited variety of things to do, (read as the same tired- missions) we just blow as far as fun goes. We're combat nurses, FC won't or can't fix it, and I'm about to cancel my account and wait for the next game. The only thing holding me here is my love of the sci-fi genre and the untold potential of the engine.
We "could" be a fun class to play. Many of us have written volumes on what needs to be done to make this so, but until they get taken seriously we're a lame class, and it's quite sad given our potential. All they need to do is tweak the database, and make our fists do 25% more damage- OR even better IMO make us dodge and parry! If I could go toe to toe in PvP dodging those crits and have time to hurt my opponent I'd love this class. I proved it tonight against that doc, we simply don't have the tools. What's more frustrating than having the game knowledge and skill to know HOW to do something, and not being able? Who can blame the high level MA's for jumping ship? They've held out hoping, and for nada.
The MA class IMO is special in that it attracts people interested in MA, a real life art, and thus it's all the more dishertening to see it murdered as in AO. The tuning of body and mind through dedicated study and conditioning is a fascinating thing. Using crude weapons rather than dependance on technology, and mastering complicated forms is art. It, along with other bodily expressions of focused discipline (e.g. some sports, dance, acrobatics, gymnastics, even ballet) are the ultimate testament to the power of our natural bodies. The reality; the real world existence of MA, IMO is what makes the MA class (in games) attract a tight community of dedicated folks, and makes for the best message boards. (moreso than say, a wizard or fantasy based class) To be gimped as we are in AO is nothing short of blasphemy, and even if we sometimes take it all too seriously, it's just sad.
That a decent enough rant?
I played with my 102 MA yesterday after a break of few months.
Only difference I noted was that instead of doing 112,112,112,112,112,112 (pre-love damage)
I know did 97,97,97,97,97,97 (love-damage)
So I'm gonna put my MA to rest again and try again when the next love-patch hits the server in 6 months or so.
Word of advice:
Im a pure bow ma so I dont use fists. I do well at it as well, but dont think this patch made us 'uber'. The special arrows do not work with the 2 best types of bows in the game, only the gimped bows
So... erm dont waste in bow special
It had a recharge time of 5.5 minute btw (cold arrow), some have a lil less like 3 min..
Oh yeah min damage definitely is still there ...
Lvl 123 MA ... last night grouped for a mission to fight some vets. ...and every time we found a mob that had any kind of armor on them I hit for 121 121 121 121. If I cast Waiting Panda nano then I did 201 201 201 201.
Now ... before patch I was hitting the same exact mob for 238's w/o panda nano running.
If there's an Ace mob around forget it ... I'm screwed...I was hitting as low as 93 93 93 93 at lvl 123!!! And the other classes say that we shouldn't be screaming for a fix.
*boggle*
It seems that the only GOOD thing that came out of the patch is that the controlled damage nanos break roots.... but then again we can't cast heals on ourselves for 20 seconds after that, so PvP is still pretty much f*cked
Immoral
177 MA
Member of the Mercenaries of Kai (TAG)
http://www.totalaggression.com/ao
"Everyone has their One Intent in life - their solitary, seemingly-unreachable, ultimate goal. I have mine. I'm trying to live it. What's yours?" - Immoral
"He might look small but he hits like a truck!" -Zindel
Letah the 2 best bows in game are crossbows.. that's why. Also they are no longer the best. Of the same QL's schuylers do nearly double the damage of a Junior Urban Crossbow but have no specials.
I think the fix for the new arrows is going onto test as we speek. Don't give up so easily when this forum is filled with only disinformation and slander.
http://community.anarchy-online.com/...1/name/xaielao
"Yea, I've got your information.. you got my money?"
Proud member of 3305 Local
A non-GA Fixer, and pround of it!
Fergus ~ 27 Soldier (after wipe) ~ Test
"No escaping pain! You belong to me.." Megadeath-Skin o' my Teeth
Fion ~ 25 Opi MA (after wipe) ~ Test
"Woh look at that MOB! Think I can take it? *SMACK* OUCH!"
Fix for new arrows? Whats that?
I do not look at the forum for it Fion, those were my own experiences on life sever. Theres no shuyler to buy, Urban is still the best, and cant fire specials.
CAN ANYONE BEAT THIS?
I have read this entire forum and so now I am going to sum up the entire experience for both MAs and other professions:
I played my level 85 MA tonight in a 50% mission with an enforcer friend...
I did 5 damage to a mob.
Yes 5.
Well I been doin pretty goot at lvl 28. My beef is with the bows... I want the bows to actually do more then tickle a mob! Screw the bow specatt.. I just want the bows to bee useful
Ok so why?????How so??? Or maybe what? Stay tuned!
MAs will receive no more fixes
Ok guys,
I hope you enjoyed the "loving" MAs got because it is ALL YOU ARE EVER GOING TO GET. Looking at the love the other professions got, I saw everything from Grid Armor to new lines of nanoprograms. We had our minimum damage reduced and an 8 month old "zone-unequip" bug fixed. That's it. I looked ahead and they don't even mention us again in the "Envisioned" section. So if you are not happy with your MA now, I suggest you look for other alternatives because we got all we are going to get.
On a side note, an acccount with a level 141 MA is now up for grabs if anyone wants it.
Originally posted by jonjon
I have read this entire forum and so now I am going to sum up the entire experience for both MAs and other professions:
I played my level 85 MA tonight in a 50% mission with an enforcer friend...
I did 5 damage to a mob.
Yes 5.
hehehehehe i got ya beat...I've had a couple instance when using the ma specials that i do negative damge. Yes thats right i do bird of prey and actually heal the s.o.b.
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