Fixers

[________________Crin]

Originally posted by Zuh
I have not leveled to the point Fixers suck (I am around the level 50 can't remember exactly) and I enjoy my char. What did you told me so ?

You just spoiled my fun

Welcome back

[Metalynx]

I guess I stand corrected My point was lost to the masses I guess. THe only real thing I was trying to state was simply that Its a game..and games are ment to be a challenge. If I coudl mowdown hordes of mobs with my gun in one shot then Ide ba playing a uber tank character.

And Yes I knwo its harder at higher levels. Frankly though I have talked to quite a few fixers who seem to have no real problem soloing themselves.

(and BTW....I can take down orange mobs myself and Im NOT overequipped....no use of wrangles to get that QL 150 gun for my 46 fixer...I use stragety and my feet...it takes longer but I can handle that)


Flame me if you will.....but I will still enjoy the game. If I end up suxx'ing...then I will team. (shrug)

[_________________Zuh]

Hi Metalynx and happy to meet you.

Maybe you don't know me (yet) ? I am not the flaming-type guy at all and I am clearly against whine on boards.


I understand clearly your point I think. What you didn't get is that we are in a thread about Fixer improvement, not a debate about what is a game. It is a very interesting subject and myself I am very interested in the subject. To sum up the main idea of this debate, we could state the question: when, or where, a game becomes more than a casual hobby, more than a game, in the common sens. When you play chess with a friend on a week-end, it's only a challenging play-time between 2 persons. When you spend 50 days in play time (it means 50x24=1200 hours, not 50 days since you are playing), when you become someone else like an extension of your real life in a virtual reality, then is it still a game like people understand common sens ? Actually I would say that the technology is not good enough to go through the simple "game". But it becomes more and more complex, even more beautifull, you want to spend more and more time on it, you become addict like you could be of a drug, you can loose so much time... What if I wasn't playing and I had spend this 5 hours this night to something else ? Ouch I could have done so much in real life and not in a virtual reality (because it is the goal) !

So let's ask ourself. What would I have done if I wasn't playing ? What does a game like AO bring to me ?

Is AO and other mmorpg only a way people like the ones in FC try to make the most money they can ?

Why do you play ? People in France (my country) spend an average 3 hours in front of their television. Personally I can't stand television, I almost never watch it, I consider that it is at 99% of the time wasted time. But I play, and some months I play an average 4 hours per days. Am I loosing my time ?

Let's consider also hardcore gamers. I know a guy, and that's only an exemple because he is not alone, that have organized his days in order to be able to play at least 12 hours per day. What is he becomiong in RL ?


So much questions. Back on topic now.

You come on this board and claim your class is OK there is no problem and you enjoy the game pretty well. You claim it is just a game and I agree AO is just a game. I am the first to say it when it is necessary. But we are here in a thread about how to improve the Fixer class and so the game. We don't need your comments about "it is just a game no need to worry".

You seems to consider AO like a mix with traditional RPG (like Baldur's or Fallout) with an interaction between players. And it is more than that.


You see, it is a very long subject you want to sum up in a few sentence and claim you are right above all with your few sentences. You also saw I have not say much in my post... Very confuse ideas and questions don't you think ?

I could debate with you on this subject and I am quite sure we would do a very interesting debate, but here we want to talk about Fixer class through the game and you are completly out of the subject with your posts here. You just say there is nothing to do and everything is OK. Also you saw that some people here associated yourself with myself. Maybe you wasn't there when I began to post here. I was arguing Fixer is a good class and Ao a good game (to sum up quickly) but I never defended that we need nothing more than we have now. And I wasn't pretentious and naive as you are now.

Yes I am same level than you are and I have no problem to solo my char and in a word to be good. I know what is a good char and believe me I am now, but I am also only level 50 and I know I could be better by equiping better stuff. My implants are between ql50 and 70, I use a ql70 MCS and my armors need an upgrade. You say you can solo orange, I say you can't. Why ? Because I can solo red mob to by using strategy but I don't call that "soloing". I can root a mob and flee some time to regenerate and then burst again, shoot, heal, root, make whatever you want and I'll be able to bring down that damn mob. Problem is it takes far to much time. I would rather say you can "handle" orange, not solo. With an overequip char you could solo orange at you level and take 80% missions. Personally I prefer to fight yellow mobs and when I encounter a deep orange I know I will be able to handle it.

I could add a lot of page about this subject, just try to understand what is the purpose of this thread and why some people have reacted so harshly to your posts. They are not dumb a¤s that can't understand what you say.

But I have to admit they are a little "on their nerves" when they read something like you wrote .


See you in game.

[_____________Yureiko]

Quote from article by Mr. Hansen:

"We will do something about this, but there are some dependencies still lacking. This change does not indicate that we will be turning "dark blue to light blue", but we will most likely introduce a more indirect change."

Lowering the nano skill requirement for the actual programs is a thought.

However, I haven't used much of my trade skills and don't have a problem with trading some out for greener nano skills.

[Raik]

Originally posted by Alaysia


ill state right up front that i -fully- support fixers having whatever sort of Transcendent Suppressor buff ur suggesting ( provided it doesnt make riot control as useless as rifle mastery for soldiers ), but please try to be factual when making comparisons to other classes - there is no such thing as a 'shotgun buff' beyond the general ones -- not on the trader, not on any profession. the trader's ability to steal skills via divest/plunder obviates the need for any such trader buff.

Looks like my wording was off here...
by saying 'notorious shotgun buff' i was actually referring to a +132 buff in weapon skills - my bad.

Your concerns about how a higher level 'supressor' buff for Fixers would make Riot Control useless shows that you already had your share of experiences with FunCom and their sense of humor..

However the MP and the NT both get an evade buff - and it will _not_ stack with Fixer Runbuffs (there is an evade component in our runbuffs) - I will get the message "better program already running yadi yada... so a +40 SMG +30 Major Supresswor Nano would not stack with Riot control - it should be an either-or deal.

BUT: it would be self castable (maybe even self only for what i care) - and every Fixer above lvl 100 out there knows that we need some serious attack rating improvements.

if need to, leave out the Burst component at all - I never found that very useful anyways as its not related to attack rating and really only helps you equip better guns... overequipping skill checks will change that, so dont trash the idea yet.

-Raik Out

[_______________Intra]

ok, on the theme of nanos; a little point or request on our summon nanos.
could someone at funcom, please take a look at the line and explain what you were thinking and why it is in the game. I sat and tried to console a fixer last night who had maxed 4 of his nano skills every level in order to be able to summon because he believed fixers are meant to be able to hack and steal stuff... only to find out that we can only borrow it for a limited time and have to pay for it.
so, if our nano skills are going to be dark blue, and we are going to spend huge amounts of ips on them. then i think at least the nano formula should be useful.
they also need to be Uber for their level because when we are able to use them then we are usually way above the level that they are directed at and so dont work against mobs that we would be fighting.

in other words... please sort it out

it needs to be worthwhile, as there are plenty of other things that need ip spent in also

/me cant even grid phreak yet

[_____________Amanite]

Heya everyone,

First of all, I have to say I'm not at all a fixer but a bureaucrat, so forgive me if my question is stupid

I wanted to ask u for more information about the Area burst.
How will that work?

Btw, what I want to know from a bureaucrat view is:
will that attack break all the mezz I could have casted on the mobs surrounding my team?

If yes, that will really be useless for PVE during high level missions in my opinion.

But the Pvp potential seems interesting (I'm all for the big battles in PVP, not for the 1on1... I'm a crat hehe)

Amanite

[_______________Intra]

Hi Amanite,
so far there has been limited testing of AE burst, we have a little info (which is greatly appreciated) from someone who was able to try it out on test, and so far the findnigs dont look too clever.
I havent heard about it breaking mez, although I do tend to assume so since it is an attack. we are still trying to find a real use for it or where it will fit in. I am sure that someone will find something to do with it.
one problem is, we are hearing that it is still broken or bugged, that it is not working as intended on test.
But, we are not being told how it is intended to work or what is broken about it... so it is still too early to comment really.
they may have found that it breaks mez and it wasnt intended to do that

to funcom: more info on the mechanics of AE burst would be appreciated, so we know what it is meant to do and how it is intended to work.
I dont think many fixers care about spoilers.. we just want info so we dont have another summon ammo incident

thanks again

[_____________Amanite]

Thx for your answer.
I know the feeling you should have atm with all the upcomming changes undocumented.
Bureaucrats already faced that..
We had some good surprises (I like the look of the suit).

We had a lot of bad surpises that could have been avoided by testing more before publishing (all our new nano crystals: demotivational speeches break all our mezz and put the aggro of all monsters on the crat..funny hehe)

I hope you will have a lot of good surpises and not too much bad ones.
The blackmarket seems really nice.
The new area burst seems really nice too.
I just hope they will BE nice

Originally posted by Intra
we are still trying to find a real use for it or where it will fit in. I am sure that someone will find something to do with it.

From a Naive point of view, I like the potential of such a weapon.. but it will be hard to use in my opinion (Especially in teams imo)
I remember some months ago when I was hunting shades and mutants of our level (green) that Nts were really nice with their area nukes.. Fixers will maybe have that kind of role soon?

Amanite

[Metalynx]

If I had offended any in the Fixer community by my words or actions I respectfully apologize. I too have issues with my class, but I have chalked it up to the faults of the class itself. I agree wholeheartedly about problems with the nanos (and their ungodly costs) but I am trying to work around such problems. Reading these boards I see many peoepl saying pretty much the same views I have..So I guess It mwas my mistake posting my other viewpoints. Perhaps I whould have found another forum

Heedless to say Zuh, I do agree with our many faults. Our main strenght is to *RUN* from just about everything. Becasue of this I have never done PVP before (gawd the very idea makes me shudder) and I have hardley ever thought about overequipping to try to correct my faults. Our nanos suk (I have recently gotton rid of all the crystals I had for summoning weapons and armor, becasue of the posts I have seen here about how worthless they are) and I DO agree with the fact it is a bit unfair that other classes have many of our grid nanos. (shrugs) I just take it to heart hat I have played most of the exhisting rpg games and more online role playing games than I care to admit, and they all have this same fault: its difficult to balance the classes from each other. Everyone wants everything. I was making a rather ill thought out attemtp to inject a bit of sanity in some of the posts I saw about unfairness. Everything Ive seen about improvement so far would be just peachy with me (I need more SMG's to play with!!!) but all the other classes at one time or another have the same problems....just at one time or another one comes to the fore and kicsk ass becasue of a bad patch on FC's part. We'll get our chance....

Again, sorry for anyone who got angry at my post. (shrugs again) I'll leave it at that.

[______________Abdhul]

What it comes down to is this: We just want a niche. We don't want to be tanks with nano ability of NTs. We, as Fixers, just want a role that the other professions can't fill.

I don't think this is a unique perspective. I think all classes want their place.

[______________barbbs]

Ok I am going to break this down for you guys.

First off Fixers pay to much for Nano skills? Hell yeah! I mean why are all my nano's dark blue when my proffession is totaly dependent on them? I had to choose my nano skills that I could afford in doing that I cant use the new grid armor becaue I dont have the IP to waste on it because as stated it's way to expensive to use!

Fixers arent really a bonus in a group. Wrong! I think in missions fixers are awsome! They pull better than any other class in the game. Not only that but they have some really nice buffs that are nifty in a mission. I.E. The run buffs!

Fixers get their AE Burst! Yes we got the bullets but I cant figure out how to make them work. Plus they are REALLY REALLY expensive! Are they going to be worth the cost?

Lastly I love my Fixer. I play other classes from MA's to Crat's and I would say that I still feel that the Fixer is my class. They are beautiful in there simplicity so with that I would add. Dont screw them up by overcomplicating the class guys!

Sincerely Barbbs 147 Fixer RKII

[_________onomastikon]

I am fairly new (3 days old), and Fixer was the first char I took. I loved the concept of it. I just wish that the concept would be more easily implementable. This probably would be the case were there more opportunities for PC-NPC interaction, different mission concepts, as well a different economic system. It could be a very fun character! I frankly couldnt care less how "effective" or good it is in a team, I just like the Fun aspects of it. So -- PLEASE try to work on it, from the big things to including neat things like cigarettes and a /smoke animation, and people will be more satisfied in their roleplaying.

[_______________Intra]

This thread has gone untouched for a couple of days.. so I thought I would make another appeal to the devs/community team for any info on the direction they envision the fixer going.

the Niche that they will create for us (not so much how they will do it) the area in which we will fit into a team and how we will become useful.

in what way they are going to fix area burst to make it a viable attack instead of another addition akin to the summon ammo line.

please give us more info
not spoilers or leaks (unless you can of course ), just directions and generalisations.

I would love to fit the description of the fixer that I read when I first started

[_________________Zuh]

The post is not touch for some days mainly cos every Fixer said already what he think on Fixer board.


So you just have to go there and read, but you will have a hard time to figure out what's good and what's dumb ; )

Good luck

[_____________Yureiko]

"We will do something about this, but there are some dependencies still lacking. This change does not indicate that we will be turning "dark blue to light blue", but we will most likely introduce a more indirect change." --- Jim Salabim

Not sure I like the sound of "indirect." Sounds kinda like some exterior item that has to be found and will likely be hard to use. That is not a fix in any way other than a symbolic one.

A good way to fix that, if you don't want to lower the cost of the skills themselves (or at least some of them) would be to lower the cost of the nanos, like you did with other prefession's nanos (e.g. the engie gladiatorbot series which had a MUCH higher cost to use use the shell than it did to create it.)

Personally, I prefer lowering some trade skills to dark blue so that some nano skills can be raised to greenish. This more reflects the jack-or all-trades that you want, as that appellation does not refer only to trades but to, according to Webster, "doing many kinds of work at an acceptable level."

"She is also a jack of many other trades, often paying most attention to the "shadier" aspects of those trades. As her name suggests - she should be able to "fix" things for others." --Jim Salabim

And therein lies the problem! You are missing the shadier definition of the term "fixer". This refers to someone who can fix you up with something you can't normally get. It's frequently found in genres like cyberpunk, which yur game emulates to some extent. A perosn like this would have some electrical and mechanical skills. He can hotwire a car but can't build or design one for example. He knows enough technical information to clone a cellular phone, but can't build a cell tower, or design a phone. He knows enough information to modify cumputer hardware but can make circuit boards or hard drives.

He can, however, program software and in particular knows how to get through computer security, i.e. hack.

So, with these things in mind, the amount of greenish tradeskills on the fixer is innappropriate and the high cost of the nano skills does not adequately describe the fixer's abilities with computers and programs.

However, created the fixer nanos understood what they represented: hacking into the system. Unfortunately, whoever designed the skills layout misunderstood how important that facet was. A high tech fixer really needs to shne in the area of hacking as well as breaking and entering and trap disarmament.

If you ever get the chance, see the movie "Sneakers" with Robert redford and Sidney Poitier. This movie gives a wonderful example of a fixer group.

[Teknolord]

Originally posted by Yurieko
And therein lies the problem! You are missing the shadier definition of the term "fixer". This refers to someone who can fix you up with something you can't normally get. It's frequently found in genres like cyberpunk, which yur game emulates to some extent. A perosn like this would have some electrical and mechanical skills. He can hotwire a car but can't build or design one for example. He knows enough technical information to clone a cellular phone, but can't build a cell tower, or design a phone. He knows enough information to modify cumputer hardware but can make circuit boards or hard drives.
He can, however, program software and in particular knows how to get through computer security, i.e. hack

Why do I suddenly feel like McGyver?

[_______________Karrd]

Originally posted by Spook
I think Fixers nano is a bit strange. QL should be the lvl you can access the nano, but I found some Fixer nano with my MP that have HIGHER req then my MP nanos of that QL. And if you consider that Fixer have blue nano skills while MP have a lot of green skills....

Oboy, it must suck being a fixer. Give those fixer a bit of love in nano department either through better nano skills or through lower nano req.

I'm gonna have to go with Spook on this on

[___________Rasgueado]

Ok... I've read through a ton of these posts, and every one of them is a great way to improve the roll of the fixer in groups, and in the general presence of the game... however I can't help but wonder... is balance really possible in the current environment?

First off.. what is that word... Balance? (Just in case any of the dev's even READ this far down the board) I've seen you use it before, but I've yet to really see it implemented, and many times have I seen you contradict yourself. What *IS* play balance? I think it can really be summed up best by Crin's sig line.. "Playing a fixer shouldn't be Anarchy Online with the difficulty slider all the way up."

What does that mean in terms of play balancing? It means that it sould be just as difficult to play as any of the professions in the game. Which also means, that any of the professions should be able to cause as much damage as any of the other professions. In an RPG system such as this, where there is such a large focus on combat, and with EVERY profession having to go THROUGH combat, its therefore ludicrous to even TRY and justify having one class out damage another one. What then is the point of the other professions?

The point of them is quite simply to give each player another choice about HOW they want to play this game. If you want to use pet's to cause your damage, or use speech's.. build robot's, use all out weaponry, or stealth and strike. Its not MORE difficult to play another class, and if each of that profession's skills are used effectively and appropriately, EVERY profession should be able to take on and BEAT every other profession in the game.

The other point to having profession's, and so MANY of them, is to bring a wide array of skill sets into play. Each particular skill set augmenting or giving advantages in one way or another that is UNIQUE to that class, which groups can take advantage of. This is the theory behind balancing... is it possible?

I'm not entirely certain.... and I'm also not entirely sure its all their fault. (directly it is, but indirectly maybe not completely) In efforts to try and quickly appease angry player's for AWFUL gaps in some professions, they've added a bunch of additions to augment those types, which then make other unique abilities on OTHER professions obselete. Also the constant call for advantages given to some professions be nerfed by the players, further compounds that problem. The idea that some players have, where they want to be able to have and do everything with no disadvantages to their character is a rampant problem. The disadvantages, as WELL as the advantages are part of what makes our professions unique.

Does funcom really have any interest in truly balancing?? From certain things I have read, I'm not entirely certain about that answer either. The worst thing I have probably ever seen a dev post, is the fact that a fixer will never be able to outdamage a soldier. That's a ludicrous thing to say, especially in a game that has a PvP element to it. (ESPECIALLY when you've put an arena into the game.) If I wanted to do a duel with another character for whatever reason, and we're the same level, he's a soldier, and I'm a fixer... I should have just as much a chance at beating HIM as he does at beating me. To have a dev say that this particular scenario will never happen, is unbelieveable.

What does this mean for us fixer's in the grand scheme of this so called "love"?? I think Crin already said it best. The designer's should all go and think of a role for Fixer's to play, and then find a way to implement it, and come back to tell us what it is. Their current method of doing it is sorely lacking, and I think they'll have to seriously re-examine the way they go about dispensing "love" if they don't want to see their game get out of hand.

(Oh... and a store is not something I would say is a feature that increases our group desireability. No matter how hard we try, having access to a store is only going to get us /tell's from people wanting an item, not a teammate. When was the last time that you saw someone shouting for someone with a high nano programming skill, then invite the person that helped them put the implant together along for a group run? Trade skills and store's aren't the answer to your problems with play balance guys, think harder.)

[________________Ecce]

Fixers need some light blue nano skills!

An Agent can fp to fixer and cast higher level nanos than a fixer who is the same level as the agent. This doesn't seem wrong to you?

What's the advantage of fixers then? Comp Lit? Traders have the buffs for that...hmm, maybe it's the evades?....No, MA's have that, and Parry, and the evades don't really help since you still get hit for minDmg, and minDmg is like 10%-20% of your total health.

I don't have any answers for you. I played my fixer up to level 87, and I want the guy to succeed, but he blows and so do the areaBurst and static items in the Borealis Fixer Terminal.

(Note: I know why you are making small changes, you don't want to out balance things like you did with the MPs.)

grrr,
Lixabundus - retired fixer, lvl 87
Ecce - retired NT, lvl 93
Abunari - Trader, lvl 116 (active, only fun thing so far)
and numerous other characters under lvl 50.