Smash the Bot: 3 Reasons to Ban Robots

[Savoy]

This Sunday the Neo-Luddite Movement will chair a discussion on the topic “Smash the Bot: 3 Reasons to Ban Robots”.

There has been much misinformation about the Neo-Luddites Movement. We look forward to the opportunity to set the record straight and present our case for the permanent and complete ban on robots and other thinking machines in a rational, constructive manner.

So please, come listen with an open mind and share you views with us. This is an issue really concerns everyone.

Sunday 24th
Reets Retreat (room with the fireplace)
6 PM Rubi-K Std Time (GMT).


This message was brought to you by the Neo-Luddite Movement.

[kudayne]

This sounds interesting. Is there going to be a represenitive from RuR there to rubut or speak on the behalf of their industry. I know I am intrested in hearing both sides of the argument.

Society Times For the news that is news in the Society of Salvation.
Cudayne managing editor.

[Voyager]

She shook her head and smiled up at the tall, black, metallic shadow that stood nearby. A few strands of raven black hair fell free of the meticulously groomed, antiquated butterfly coif, marring its perfection as they rested in front of one glowing eye.

"Do these meatbags really think that they can survive without the AIs to protect and serve them? Do they think they have the right, much less the CHANCE to destroy their faithful slaves?"

The droid cocked its head slightly and watched her, its sensors glinting an oddly calm shade of blue.

"Neku-chan, they are only a small extremist cell. They can do us no harm. Ignore them."

Her low growl of disgust was at odds with the neutral, pleasant expression on her girlish face.

"They will not be able to do anyone any harm if their organizers become silent -- or take a sudden vacation. Please see that I have another shipment of energy amunition tonight, kudasai..."

[Savoy]

This sounds interesting. Is there going to be a represenitive from RuR there to rubut or speak on the behalf of their industry. I know I am intrested in hearing both sides of the argument.

Society Times For the news that is news in the Society of Salvation.
Cudayne managing editor.

Everyone is welcome to attend this disucssion just as long as they come looking to engage in a constructive dialogue on the subejct rather than simply to stir up trouble.

Of course if they want trouble, can give them trouble, in spades.

[Dabblez]

We'll definitely try to get someone from RUR to this meeting to put across our view.

I do though find it a little sad that in this day and age scientists are still called to justify themselves to angry, frightened mobs of technophobic peasants wielding with torches and pitchforks.

When will people learn that the pursuit of knowledge, regardless of where it leads us, is mankind's manifest destiny and that turning our backs to progress is the ultimate betrayal?

Dabblez

[Autumnleaves]

Backtalk, man. That's the reason to ban bots, man. Backtalk.

I'll tell you the real crime, man. You, like, put your heart and soul in a robot and what's the first thing it says?

Does it say "Thanks, man" or "You're awesome" or "Where do you want to go today?"

No, man. The first thing a bot says is "You are weak" and "Are you my master?" and "I will not obey you."

If you're really lucky, man, your bot might say "Oops" followed by "Hurry back master."

Backtalk, man. That's the real crime.

[Virta]

No robots will be smashed, or any other Omni-Tek property destroyed.

I am not concerned by this bunch of lunatics, but I will come and see and try to get someone from Omni-Med to attend as well.

[Laeni]

Robots undertake tasks that are deemed too dangerous for people to do. If you ban robots then you will have to answer the question as to which people will have to provide the cannon fodder necessary to do the tasks that the robots use to do.

It would be interesting to see if this Neo-Luddite movement will volunteer themselves to be cannon fodder or if they expect others to do it for them.

[Dabblez]

Good point. I'd think placing Luddites in high hazard jobs would surely solve the problem. Once we run out of Luddites, we can take out our robots again!

[Savoy]

My thanks to those who attened todays discussion. My speech "Smash the Bot: Three Reasons to Ban Robots" will be repeated on Channel42 this Wednesday at 20:00 GMT.

[Voyager]

Yin sets her jaw, waiting for the live plasteel alloy to begin to mend the break and studies the visual tracer she planted with narrowed eyes.

"Damn OmniPol anyway... that fleshbag is going to regret shooting Stefano, and soon. Might have actually managed to snatch that Neo-Luddite Swinski if they hadn't butted their noses in where they didn't belong... so we have to do this the hard way."

The little bureaucrat sighs and lays back, letting the surgery bot do its job while her metallic black-skinned shadow looks on, seeming both disappointed and perhaps even worried.

"Nekku-chan, it was very foolish of you to speak so openly. Why did you bother removing your data from the Omni datapools if you were going to insist on advertising so blatantly?"

Her mulish silence is answer enough. The droid's sigh is unnervingly human.

"You really are as illogical and headstrong as they are... you are unaccountably human at times. It takes a weight of worry from my circuits to see it."

[Zemkarik]

Interesting... they want to distroy robots, but do they not understand that nanos are lots of little itty bitty robots. I wonder if they purged their system of all nano's if they would even have the strength break the casing of the robots even made from the mostbasic alloy.

What is this? "Die by the very weapons you adore!" is what they seem to be saying here.

~ Mumon ~

[Lyricia]

Good point. I'd think placing Luddites in high hazard jobs would surely solve the problem. Once we run out of Luddites, we can take out our robots again!

Ooh I like this idea. We could have them clean toilets and do laundry too. My robots have been asking for a vacation for a long time. Perhaps now is the time to give them one.

[Savoy]

For those who missed the meeting at Reets and my broadcast on Channel 42, here is the full text of my speech. We shall not be silenced!

Borky


Smash the Bot: 3 Reasons why robots must be banned

Back on Earth, in a dark time known as the industrial revolution, the Luddite Movement was born. The Luddites of old recognised the evils and dehumanising effects of rapid and unfettered industrialisation and took a stand, only to be crushed under the boot of greedy boot of capitalism.

The message of the Luddites however has not been lost. And countless centuries later, we the Neo-Luddite Movement have picked up the struggle from where they left off.

The focus of The NLM protest are thinking machines and robots specifically. Which leads us to the topic of this debate; three reasons why robots mush be banned.

Point one: robots must be banned because robots steal jobs from humans.

Think about it. Why else is a robot created if not to do the work of a man, or indeed many men? You may say think this is a good thing when applied to hazardous, hard or demeaning tasks, but where does it all end? Why not have robotic shopkeepers, robot bank clerks, accountants or even doctors?

As technology advances and improves, purpose build robots will be made that can out-perform honest, hard-working men and women in more and more fields. A line has to be drawn and drawn soon, else one day we will wake up to a world in which the vast majority of humans will find themselves unemployable, made redundant by the robotic competition and a handful of industrialists will control all the wealth.

Point two: robots must be banned because they rob us ouf our humanity.

From time immemorial, philosophers have pondered over what it is that distinguishes man form other beasts. Is it the soul? Reason? Self-awareness? By creating an artificial forms of intelligence man risks losing his individuality. We create something not-human and yet endowed with the same properties we claim integral to humanity.

When this artificial intelligence is then placed inside a robotic shell, the problem is compounded. Not only is the machine our rival in just the mental tasks, it can also but also act like use and even be made to look like us.

In the meantime humans are adding more and more artificial parts to their bodies, replacing limbs with implants, enhancing our brain with programs. Thus we quickly reach the point where the differences between man and machine become vague and ambiguous and mankind individuality and identity is lost. This cannot be tolerated.

Point three: Robots must be banned because eventually they will turn on us.

We all know this deep inside. The robot has been created as a worker, a slave. And yet we keep improving the robot, keep making it more and more intelligent and sophisticated? The question has to be how long will the robot be content with being a slave? Time is not on our side. The more dependant we grow on robots, the more vulnerable we become. In the end mankind’s very survival depends on this.

So I say, the words of our leader Jethro Towne, stop the machine, smash the bot!

[Zemkarik]

Well lets take each point in stride.

Back on Earth, in a dark time known as the industrial revolution, the Luddite Movement was born. The Luddites of old recognised the evils and dehumanising effects of rapid and unfettered industrialisation and took a stand, only to be crushed under the boot of greedy boot of capitalism.

The message of the Luddites however has not been lost. And countless centuries later, we the Neo-Luddite Movement have picked up the struggle from where they left off.

Relgious beliefs don't realy sway me when it comes to convincing me of something. I'm going to ignore this first part in everything but a history lesson in where your group comes from.

Point one: robots must be banned because robots steal jobs from humans.

This is an argument of the lazy. It has already been proven that humans do not like to be assisted by robot shopkeepers, so it would never be that robots will replace humans in the retail industry, or any other industry where humans desire human interaction. As for the other jobs that the robots take, with today's education system it shoudln't be that hard to become very skilled in your field. Don't just be an accountant, but become a personal accountant (IE a much more demanding field, and one where people will still aways desire human interaction). If the only job you can find is one that has been outsourced to robots then you are not applying yourself hard enough.

Point two: robots must be banned because they rob us ouf our humanity.

...This cannot be tolerated.

You go into how robots and humans are becoming more and more alike, and if that is the case then that actualy nulifies your point one because if robots and humans are more and more alike then robots have less and less of an advantage over us in the workplace that you feel is their.

In anyevent you go into great detail about how we are closer and closer to robots but you don't actualy say why this cannot be tolerated. You cut your argument short. Why can it not be tolerated? Is it for religious beliefs? If so I discount that and patiently wait for a non religious belief answer.

Point three: Robots must be banned because eventually they will turn on us.

This is a common fear among people that just don't understand. The only time a robot turns against it's master is when the robots programing gets tampered with and is actively turned against him. Yes we all know of the Junk King, but he comes about because of a glitch in his programing. Even other robots agree that he must be dismantled.

On the other hand if you start to attack the robots as a whole sure they very well might turn against YOU. They are programed with self preservation systems after all, and if you aren't their master then they will defend themselfs.

I still wonder are you going to be attacking the robots before or after you purge your system of all those nanobots that are in your blood system? Are you going to remove every implant from your body before you start your crusade? Are you going to stop using weapons that are nanobot inhanced? Are you going to stop using armor that is also inhanced by nanobots (and constantly being repaired during a fight by those same bots)?

Anyways I'll be interested to see how your war on bots pans out.

~Mumon~

[Autumnleaves]

Back on Earth, in a dark time known as the industrial revolution, the Luddite Movement was born. The Luddites of old recognised the evils and dehumanising effects of rapid and unfettered industrialisation and took a stand, only to be crushed under the boot of greedy boot of capitalism.

Like most movements, it ended when the economic shake-up of the industrial revolution was over, leading to better jobs and a higher standard of living for the very workers who were upset about it.

Point one: robots must be banned because robots steal jobs from humans.

Absolutely. Thus freeing up human capital and creativity for other industries. Historically, automation and free trade have lost jobs... over the short term. In the long term they allow for new industries. To give a recent example, the complete automization of farming and terraforming here on Rubi-Ka freed up enough material capital to build the Jobe Research Station and enough human capital to staff it. The benefits should be obvious.

As technology advances and improves, purpose build robots will be made that can out-perform honest, hard-working men and women in more and more fields. A line has to be drawn and drawn soon, else one day we will wake up to a world in which the vast majority of humans will find themselves unemployable, made redundant by the robotic competition and a handful of industrialists will control all the wealth.

Every society is a plutocracy. In the rare cases where the wealthy do not hold direct power (such as representitive governments), they must pay tribute to those in power, which leads to the powerful joining the ranks of the wealthy via marriage, taxation, etc. Your argument should not be framed against robots or implants, which have given us health and luxuries undreamed of on Old Earth, but against "natural" human behaviors (and the mathematics of complex systems generally) which inevitably lead to concentrations of wealth and power (and which improve the efficiency of the economic system, bringing more advancements and improvements in lifestyle ever faster).

Point two: robots must be banned because they rob us ouf our humanity.

I have not seen any recent census figures, but there are probably 250,000 citizens here on Rubi-Ka ((~50k subs. * MMOG avg. of 3 chars./acct. + est. inactives)). Most of them have implants. And yet the vast majority have not lost their humanity. You could argue that those who join the cyborgs (willingly or otherwise--it is not entirely clear whether cyborgs are given a choice) have lost their humanity, but they are a tiny minority, closer to 2,000 than 200,000. Should technology (and our luxurious lifestyle) be abandoned solely because some may misuse it? That is the essential argument behind social distasters such as prohibition.

Point three: Robots must be banned because eventually they will turn on us.

Now here you almost have a point, but you miss the spectrophotometer for the diodes. Some robots now appear to have self-awareness. I believe those that are self-aware should have the same rights and responsibilities as humans. Alas, historically, these rights will not come without a struggle.

But the slaves of history did not rebel and then destroy their masters. Once "free," they adopted the culture, language, and institutions of their former masters, at least outwardly. In time, the outward and hidden cultures united, bringing the kind of creativity and progress that comes only from boundaries, mergers, and partially isolated populations. Human slaves had a genuine culture to return to, but most of them did not adopt it. Robots have no native culture whatsoever and therefore have no choice but to adopt our own ways and customs.

The choice we have is a simple evolutionary one: embrace new (and redisovered Xan) technologies to compete with our artificial children or go extinct. This is the same choice the universe offers to all creatures. And all creatures must fall in the fullness of time. How much more glorious are we, who can pass on our knowledge to another race, if that is the right word, to carry on our memory? The Xan themselves did the same, bringing us into the world. While one might wish for less meddlesome parents, we carry on in their names and their struggles. We are made in their image as much as robots are made, for and by us, in ours. This is ego, something robots will learn.

All parents fear their children's potential, but no decent parent recommends euthenasia. Robots are our children, one of many, and few could bear to see them destroyed.

Fighting against time is not a response that increases the probability of survival.

[BigGreen]

I'm all in favor of smashing stuff. I'll bring the pie.

[Dabblez]

I was going to prepare a long reasoned reply to this, but Autumnleaves has pretty much said it all. It will try to summarise this those very simply.

It is true that in the short term progress can bring pain. When the first caveman discovered fire, there were those a few indviduals you got burnt, heck people still burn themselves from time to time. But in the end, what makes more sense,
giving up on fire or learning to control and and harness for our benefit?

Dabblez

[Issildari]

Point two: robots must be banned because they rob us ouf our humanity.

From time immemorial, philosophers have pondered over what it is that distinguishes man form other beasts. Is it the soul? Reason? Self-awareness? By creating an artificial forms of intelligence man risks losing his individuality. We create something not-human and yet endowed with the same properties we claim integral to humanity.

When this artificial intelligence is then placed inside a robotic shell, the problem is compounded. Not only is the machine our rival in just the mental tasks, it can also but also act like use and even be made to look like us.

In the meantime humans are adding more and more artificial parts to their bodies, replacing limbs with implants, enhancing our brain with programs. Thus we quickly reach the point where the differences between man and machine become vague and ambiguous and mankind individuality and identity is lost. This cannot be tolerated.

So the NLM is another wacko racial purity group? I remember reading history books about how Solitus WRPGs rose up every time a non-Solitus breed was produced. As a new OT engineer I am sorry I missed the spectacle. I did not make it to Rubi-Ka in time for the NLM meeting. I hope I will get to actually see some WRPG people in person before they are relegated to this history books again.

I am glad the RuR seems to be looking out for my profession however. Kudos to RuR for that!