overequipping and why chaning rules for that won't really fix the game balance

[______________Seoman]

Why is it that most people think a nerf of overequipping will solve the problems of the game, any who plays to past lvl 160 will know it wont even as an nt at lvl 162 i could raise skills high enough to use a 200 shotgun with only a minor amount of overequpping (with in 10%)

yes it would cost quite aload of ip but it can be done

green skills cap at a base of 720 ish, blue at around 600 ish

over equipping is only a major problem below lvl 125 if you ask me once you get past there most players don't overequip that extreem to use their items i'd say about 90% of the people past lvl 125 would be with in 10% of the req's on the weapons they use

from what fc proposes in the initail overequip post that would not be past what they think should be possible with out negative effect.

Overequipnerf will have very little effect on the 125+ game
unless they make it alot more strict than the article proposed

from 125 to 200 you will only beable to increase your skills with 11*5+5*5 for green and 11*4+5*4 for blue, this is not that much
only some 80 points perhaps +20-30 more from stat increases.

so a nerf would perhaps only effect a few of the players past 125 who haven't dedidate themself to a single weapon type (not silige weapon but a skill line) but used every twink to get the item equipped

at 125 you can get to about 600 in green skills now since they don't consider implants overequiping from what they posted in that article you can easy buf 210 in 1 skill with implants
and it's quite possible to buf 2-3 skills for weapons with about 42-110 from implants
well it is not alot of weapons (talking ql 200 here) that req extreem amount of skill most i have seen lie at the range of 750-900 in main skill
often a secondary skill with a req of 500-750
and depending on weapon some specials that req about 300-500 some rifles do have high specials req's on things like burst and/or FA those would be hard to overequip since you have to create substantial buf in several skills

Yes some melee weapons have very high req's so this would properly effect enf's ma's and other melee users more than rangede weapon users.

Now yes overequipping is a major problem for the sub 100 game
and they need to change rules on how much you can do abit.

but considering that you lvl fast in this game they really need to look into balance for the 100+ game alot more.

[______________Yazule]

the biggest problem with overequiping is at the low levels, not high.

just my 2 creds

[_______________Lozer]

i already pointed this out 1 month ago.......... little late with this revilation.

[__________Turbulence]

The problem is the level 60 toona using ql200 guns and even worse the level 5 or 6 toons with 5000ac that are basically invulnerable in pvp...you know the ones that are talking in the ooc and shopping channels all day begging noobs to come pvp them?

The problem is the ip reset when implemented needs ot be mandatory and they ned ot make a mandatory unequipping of all equipment at this time so that everyone is now on an equal playing feild. Implementing these changes without doing this will just lead to make these few twinkers that are ruinging the game for nobos even more uber and pwoerful because noone will ever be able to twink to beat them again.

[________________Miir]

The biggest change in the high level game will be the nerfing of mob AC/HP and relative power when they do implement the overequipping changes.


This is a good thing.



The problem is the ip reset when implemented needs ot be mandatory and they ned ot make a mandatory unequipping of all equipment at this time so that everyone is now on an equal playing feild. Implementing these changes without doing this will just lead to make these few twinkers that are ruinging the game for nobos even more uber and pwoerful because noone will ever be able to twink to beat them again.

No they don't.
The proposed changes to overequipping will reduce the effectiveness of weapons that are overequipping in excess of 20%.
So it doesn't matter if that level 50 Agent has a QL200 Stigma equipped. His damage will be close to the agent who has a QL90 Stigma equipped.

There is no need to unequip anyones gear.

[__________Turbulence]

Yes the gun they are weilding will be appropriate for their level but nothign has been said about armor and implants...what you fail to see is that folks with level 6 toons with ql 70 implants and 2500AC do exist from before the tarder comp lit nerf. These players are invulnerable to the attck of most any weapon and the onyl way to stop this is the mandatory unequipping of implants and armor.

I know it sucks and I know people will ***** about it. I dont want ot have to do it either but I see it as the only real way to fix the problem so i am willing and its a step Funcom needs to take toward fising their game.

I woudl say Funcom loses 5-10 potential customers a day when they step in the arena fo rtheir first time and run accross one of these twinks that kills them in 3 shots while they have not even managed to move their opponents health.

You see surely they dont know whats going on so they quit in frustration...this is not the proper greeting for newcomers and yet this is the greeting they get because they are the only ones dumb enough to fight these guys...and its not their fault...they just dont know.

[________________Miir]

I woudl say Funcom loses 5-10 potential customers a day when they step in the arena fo rtheir first time and run accross one of these twinks that kills them in 3 shots

I seriously doubt any players doing the 7 day trial are going to be partaking in Arena PvP...let alone 5-10.

The percentage of players who regularly take part in PvP in AO is very low. I'd estimate it's under 5%.


what you fail to see is that folks with level 6 toons with ql 70 implants and 2500AC do exist from before the tarder comp lit nerf.

QL70 Implants require base attributes or around 150.
There is no way a level 6 player could ever equip QL70 implants.
There is also no way a level 6 player could ever equip a full set of QL110 (attrib reqs ~260) Armor.


The number of uber-equipped low level twinks is very low.
So low that you could probably count them on 2 hands.

They are easy to spot. They are the ones spamming every channel with dood speak asking for duels in the arena.


Every player would be incredibly inconvenienced if they were forced to unequip every item.
From the level 50 who needs a 10 point wrangle to re-equip his gun, to the level 130 who is 2 STR short on re-equipping his armor.

The shopping channels would be spammed for days by people looking for wrangles, masteries, IC, Essence, etc....



Forced unequipping by all players is a very bad idea.

[__________Turbulence]

"There is no way a level 6 player could ever equip QL70 implants. "


Yes there is before the trader complit buffs were made self only and before the treatment nerfs it was possible to at level 6 or so equip a 5slot belt and have enough ncu to be buffed with Titan IC Base buffs and using 2 Cushions to install QL50ish Implants that boosted base abilities even further into the 300's making it incredibly easy to "Twink". You see once the 50's were in you could swap them with 70's then swap 70's with 120's etc... I'd venture to guess that the most innovative of people could have gotten into quite a high set of implants this way.

Mandatory unequipping is the only way to go.

And if you think people arent interested in pvping your sadly mistaken my friend Id say a good 75% of all 7 day trial people step into the arena and give it a whirl how can you resist when John Q Twinker is asking for level 6's to come duel him etc..its a trial after all and you want to see what pvp is like.

It has a much bigger impact on the game than you seem to realize.

[______________Shikhi]

The problem is the level 60 toona using ql200 guns and even worse the level 5 or 6 toons with 5000ac that are basically invulnerable in pvp...you know the ones that are talking in the ooc and shopping channels all day begging noobs to come pvp them?

Level 5 or 6 with 5000ac? I think that's a bit of an exaggeration

[________________Miir]

Yes there is before the trader complit buffs were made self only and before the treatment nerfs it was possible to at level 6 or so equip a 5slot belt and have enough ncu to be buffed with Titan IC Base buffs and using 2 Cushions to install QL50ish

The minimum comp lit req for a 5 slot belt is around 240.
Bulk trader buffs 160.
Level 6 would have around 30 base comp lit.
Comp lit expertise buffs 20.

A few comp lit implants and it is possible, but I seriously doubt any more than 3-4 players ever equipped a 5 slot at level 6.

Titan buffs 20
IC buffs 20
General buffs 12
2 Cushions buffs 16.
Base Str/Sta at level 6 is around 20-25.
Implants could probably boost another 20-30.

Theoretically, a player could get into QL50ish armor at level 6, but their AC would be nowhere near your outrageous estimate of 5000AC.
I estimate a full set of QL50 armor would put your ACs around 1200-1500.




And if you think people arent interested in pvping your sadly mistaken my friend Id say a good 75% of all 7 day trial people step into the arena and give it a whirl

And how did you come up with this ficticious figure?
Do you meet and greet every single "7 day trial" player who signs into AO?
Try to validate your statements by other means than pulling some bogus statistic out of your bum.

Besides, studies have shown that 95% of all statistics are bullspit.



It has a much bigger impact on the game than you seem to realize.

I'm afraid not, fella.
As I said earlier, the number of uber-equipped newbies who hang ount in Tir arena spamming chat channels for newbie duels could probably be counted on 2 hands.



Try to ease up on the exaggerations.
People who read these boards aren't morons.
They aren't fooled by tall tales.

[_____________JuJutsu]

Originally posted by Miir
[B] Try to ease up on the exaggerations. People who read these boards aren't morons. They aren't fooled by tall tales.

If you were to rephrase that to 'Not all the people who read these boards are morons' you'd be on safer ground. C'mon Miir you read the boards, some of the posts were clearly written by morons. Assuming that anyone who posts is also a reader, then some readers are morons.

Actually my research indicates that exactly 3.1412% qualify

[__________Turbulence]

I find it laughable that because i exxagerate the AC a bit that becomes your only retort so lets just say that a level 6 player with 2000AC or 5000AC is basically no different to common level 6 player that hops into the arena to give pvp a try for the fist time. They are both practically invulnerable.

However the thing you fail to realize which i will repeat is before the treatment nerfs you could squeeze into much higher than ql50 implants at level 6. There were several bugs one of which involved stacking implants (Putting 2 in each slot) Via stacking implants and stepping up in QL of implants. I.E. levle 6 puts in 2 sets of QL50 Implants he now has 200ish stamins/Str he can squeeze into QL90s he puts 2 sets of QL90's he now can squeeze into QL120's Etc...doing this up until he had enough str sta to equip the best armor he could put on the twink. Yes this was possible and the overequip changes will do nothing to these people other than make their guns do less damage they are still going to be invulnerable.

Lots of people have done this dont kid yourselves...the fact that you are naive to this fact and dont actually understand whats going on makes your veiws understandable but the plain and simple fact is that to a newbie this is disheartening and certainly someone whom is on a TRIAL period is going to want to TRY pvp before the trial is up and these are the people they are faced with.

Now left with this impression of AO PVP how do you think they are going to feel?

Argue all you want but the plain and simple fact is you have no "facts" about how many people pvp either so let me just remind you of an old phrase...something about the pot calling the kettle black.

Thanks

[________________Miir]

Actually my research indicates that exactly 3.1412% qualify

I can live with that figure.




However the thing you fail to realize which i will repeat is before the treatment nerfs you could squeeze into much higher than ql50 implants at level 6.

Why don't ypu go back and READ MY POST.

You said a level 6 could be using QL70 implants.
The base attribute reqs for QL70 implants are around 150.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR A LEVEL 6 TO HAVE 150+ IN ANY ATTRIBUTE

They can reach close to 120 in Str/Sta but they would need a high level doctor and enforcer, they would have to wield 2 QL10+ concrete cushions and have QL50 Str/Sta implants.


levle 6 puts in 2 sets of QL50 Implants he now has 200ish stamins/Str

QL50 implants give +30 per attribute.
Read my post above that lists all the different ways a player can raise Str/Sta.
I'm afraid your level 6 will be about 80 points short of 200.


he can squeeze into QL90s he puts 2 sets of QL90's he now can squeeze into QL120's

QL50s give a +33 attribute buff.
They require a base atribute of 105.

QL70s give a +44 attribute buff.
They require a base atribute of 144.

QL90s give a +54 attribute buff.
They require a base atribute of 184.


QL120s give a +69 attribute buff.
They require a base atribute of 244.

QL200s give a +109 attribute buff.
They require a base atribute of 404.


It's obvious that math is not your strong point so let me use caps and bold to hammer it into your noggin.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO STEP UP IMPLANT QL LIKE YOU SUGGESTED. THE ATTRIBUTE INCREASE DOES NOT COMPENSATE FOR THE ATTRIBUTE REQUIREMENTS



Argue all you want but the plain and simple fact is you have no "facts" about how many people pvp either so let me just remind you of an old phrase...something about the pot calling the kettle black.

I'm not arguing.
I'm posting facts that dispute your bogus claims of level 6 players having 5k AC and wearing QL90+ implants.

There is no arguement here. I'm using facts to back up my points. You're using conjecture, refutable statistics and assumption to back up yours.

It's obvious that you don't have much debating experience. You're not making a very good case for your points.



The majority of AO players will be inconvenienced if every character is forced to unequip their gear.

A miniscule portion of AO players who partake in newbie Arena duels will be inconvenienced if there is no forced un-equipping.


Which one seems like the smarter choice?

[_____________Vatawna]

Huh? Do you think my Agent lvl 55 with ql 125 plants will be affected? Nah, thnxs funcom

[________________Miir]

Huh? Do you think my Agent lvl 55 with ql 125 plants will be affected? Nah, thnxs funcom

Med suit, +80 treatment, QL90 treatment impants....

Will be a pain, but re-equipping the QL125s is very possible.

[_____________Vatawna]

It was so easy before patchs

Really I do not care more about my agent or any other of my chars. I am having some fun last days with my main NT char, killing omnis and getting 1 level time to time.

I agree with seoman, overequipping nerf will not affect high level players but will help low level players (-100) experience. Remember that the only incoming money that funcom have insured with guarantee is from low level players and new players.

[__________Turbulence]

Miir...I dont have time to go through all the stats nor do I really care to do so just to explain this to you, it seems you havent been around the game since the beginning if your not aware of the exploits and what im trying to explain to you.

Once again STACKING implants doubles the bonus given it was a bug where you could equip 2 heads 2 chest etc... 2 SETS OF IMPLANTS. K keep stacking and going up in increments and you could get into ql90's easily. No it cant be done any longer but it could be done before because there never used to be a limit to the amount of treatment you could get from treatment machines. The only limiting factor was the skill required ot equip the implants and by putting 2 Ql50 Shining Implants in the same slot (Stacking) You could then equip 70's in the Same slot then 90's.

I dont need statistics I know for a fact it has been done and thats the reason you always see the same guys in the arena shouting for duals simply because they will never level these characters because of the huge advantage they currently have runing noobs days in the arena...these noobs are potential customers that are being left with a bad taste of the game after experiencing this...

The only way to eliminate this is a mandatory unequip..Sure this is an inconvenience but nothing more after all if you cant squeeze back into whatever your unequipping then you should not be wearing it anyway.

If mandatory unequipping is not done then whats to stop someone form equipping all ql200 Str/Sta armor then doing the ip reset and never putting another point into str/sta?

To not do a mandatory unequip would be the most absurd thing Funcom ever did.

[________________Miir]

these noobs are potential customers that are being left with a bad taste of the game after experiencing this

What about the tens of thousands of paying customers?

I think funcom is more concerned about us than the few people per month that partake in newbie arena twink duels.


thats the reason you always see the same guys in the arena shouting for duals

So Funcom should have a GM look at the gear that these guys are wearing. It would take 10 seconds to determine if they used exploits to equip it. Then they can ban their accounts.



To not do a mandatory unequip would be the most absurd thing Funcom ever did.


A mandantory unequip would piss off 95% of the players.
That would be a bad business move for Funcom.

[______________Shikhi]

Heh. Personally, I don't give a crap if a level 10 twink is the arena killing newbies. You know why? Because even if he WASN'T a twink, a brand new player strolling into the arena is going to die ANYWAY unless he's fighting another newbie. You don't think a newb is going to be naked using a solar weapon anyway?

Please stop using 'new players' as a justification for the fact that you're sad because Joer0xx0r killed you four times while you were level 8.

There are plenty of people PvPing that aren't uber twinked, and the few that are are under level 20 anyway (at least, noticably - at high levels the word 'overequipping' and 'twinking' is totally meaningless..)

If you choose to stay at level 10 to PvP with people, and 'twinks' keep killing you - you chose the territory. If you want 'fairer' PvP, level up some. I don't think ANY three day old player is going to be suprised when he's killed in PvP by *anyone*. I certainly wouldn't come into a game as a brand new player and expect to beat people who've been playing for months.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Turbulence
Miir...I dont have time to go through all the stats nor do I really care to do so just to explain this to you, it seems you havent been around the game since the beginning if your not aware of the exploits and what im trying to explain to you.

Once again STACKING implants doubles the bonus given it was a bug where you could equip 2 heads 2 chest etc... 2 SETS OF IMPLANTS. K keep stacking and going up in increments and you could get into ql90's easily. No it cant be done any longer but it could be done before because there never used to be a limit to the amount of treatment you could get from treatment machines. The only limiting factor was the skill required ot equip the implants and by putting 2 Ql50 Shining Implants in the same slot (Stacking) You could then equip 70's in the Same slot then 90's.

I dont need statistics I know for a fact it has been done and thats the reason you always see the same guys in the arena shouting for duals simply because they will never level these characters because of the huge advantage they currently have runing noobs days in the arena...these noobs are potential customers that are being left with a bad taste of the game after experiencing this...

The only way to eliminate this is a mandatory unequip..Sure this is an inconvenience but nothing more after all if you cant squeeze back into whatever your unequipping then you should not be wearing it anyway.

If mandatory unequipping is not done then whats to stop someone form equipping all ql200 Str/Sta armor then doing the ip reset and never putting another point into str/sta?

To not do a mandatory unequip would be the most absurd thing Funcom ever did.

you can still chain in implants man, put in 30's in treatment and needed abiilitites to put in 50's to put in 90's. It is very possible, it is very expensive, and it is very time consuming.

I DO atree that an IP wipe would force you to unequip everything, would be just too easy to exploit otherwise (esp non combat classes with weapons armed)