Martial Arts And Melee Weapons.

[Kinkstaah]

WHICH is an exploit? IS it an exploit to use ANY melee weapon with martial arts?

Ones WITHOUT a MA "Requirement?"

WILL This be changed/fixed?

What about TWO Weapons? Is using TWO weapons and a third MA attack (ala punches) OK? Or only with weapons with MA requirement?

Looking for an official answer on this one - BEFORE I spent lots of IP on Weapons that WILL need lots of IP.

IS THIS GOING TO CHANGE? If I spend IP 6 months from now into this - WILL this change? Useless skills are bad.

HAS anyone got an official reply on this? I for one would like to know that my IP is actually well spent in the end, and doesnt go completely to waste when FC suddenly change it to:

1) One hand weapons only
2) Weapons with MA requirement only
3) Cannot use MA and dual weild.

Etc - After I spend my IP.

So some FC dude, reply and stuff.

[Kinkstaah]

Blah bump.

Hm..

/me emails

:P

[______________Yazule]

read my reply on that other thread your talking about this in mike.

for a weapon weilder an extra attack is cool, for a class whos fists do most of the damage it is not a viable option. MA weapons do less damage than fists.

err, not gonna say it all again, read the other post bro.

[____________Ejeckted]

I'm not a FC dude, but the FC dudes have answered this already.

anyone with an MA skill over 120 will punch during the
'recharge' period of any weapon. (even a rifle, for example)

It is designed this way.
MA reqs on MA weapons are there so you can get
a good atk rating from a weapon without investing a huge
amount of IP . . this is why the secondary 1HE (for example)
reqs are much lower and usually contribute only 33% to the
total attack rate.

so yes, in theory, you should be able to duel-wield swords
and also punch for 'triple-wielding' effect

However, MA + weapons is VERY bugged right now
and any change in your MA stat while holding a weapon
disables your punches. Not good.. when a buff runs out
or an NPC debuffs you ..
All the MAs have been screaming about this for a long time
with no official word on an ETA for a fix.

[Kinkstaah]

Thanks guys, I just wanted to know.

Btw Yazule - these things do give "Extra" attacks, and they are viable - anything is better than a punch if you can get it.

"It is designed this way.
MA reqs on MA weapons are there so you can get
a good atk rating from a weapon without investing a huge
amount of IP . . this is why the secondary 1HE (for example)
reqs are much lower and usually contribute only 33% to the
total attack rate."

Is *that* an official response?

[____________Ejeckted]

nope. those were all my words.

but FC has previously responded to the issue,
and im paraphrasing to the best of my memory.

the original idea/rumor was that these weapons
'stacked' with fist damage, but i think that either
didn't work out or 'stack' got lost in the translation.

fists now attack during weapons recharge,
so having a weapon with a larger recharge / smaller attack
would be preferable .. probably why you see so many MAs
with sledgehammers ..

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by MiKEBoND
Thanks guys, I just wanted to know.

Btw Yazule - these things do give "Extra" attacks, and they are viable - anything is better than a punch if you can get it.

"It is designed this way.
MA reqs on MA weapons are there so you can get
a good atk rating from a weapon without investing a huge
amount of IP . . this is why the secondary 1HE (for example)
reqs are much lower and usually contribute only 33% to the
total attack rate."

Is *that* an official response?

I dont really agree mike. Granted a NON ma weapon *may* do more damage than a fist if you have enough attack.

What level MA gets MA weapons with more damage than attacks? Must be pretty low. I have watched miglio arm MA weapons and they hit for 60-100. His fists do 200-600 (if he is not ac capped, which is another story altogether and needs to be adressed).

Yes a hammer does more damage than a fist

hehe

I have watched a 107 MA arm MA weapons and they dont really do all that much damage.

[Kinkstaah]

level 176?

:P

[______________Yazule]

Well mike I assume you are talking about a 176 MA.

The thing with that is that at level 176 an MA can buff his fists to "Q200" fists (skill he will have at 200).

At this point the MA gets more and more powerfull every level, but we all know how hard it is to get to 176. Even at this point, an MA's fists will do more damage than any MA weapon I have seen. I would like to see the stats on your super damage MA weapon as most of them have low max, high min. This means they are intended to not be the major damage dealers.

Now MA's using weapons that melee classes use (hammer, haxor, galahad, executioner) WILL see that they can get more damage from the weapon than one fist blow (if they put the massive IP's into that attack). This means they dont get their heals/crits/init buffs/evade buffs/ac buffs as fast as they could.

I honestly would like to see a "viable" MA weapon (one with MA as the prime req). I have a couple of friends I would love to pass this information on to. The "best" MA weapon I have seen is the hammer. The slow swing time does not interfere with their fists too much. But an MA with a hammer is like an enforcer with a feather tickler... just dont seem right. But it IS the best option for weapon weilding MA's.

Unless you have a massive slow weapon like a hammer, an MA at 176 is better off just using his fists.

[Kinkstaah]

Ok, I am talking about two people here.

One - Was a level 176 MA who said "I'd rather use weapons than specials when they get nerfed"

Another was a level 145 MA with a QL169 parry stick that he commented he loved, and did similar damage to his punches (within 5 dmg) and he got more attacks in.

Yes, I agree that if they had a hammer they would be more effective than a guy with a parry stick. BUT.

MA is a requirement of the weapons, then they have to spend less to weild it, especially as 90% of the weapons need Dimach, Brawl, Martial arts and (insert skill here) where it may be 1hb, 2hb, 1he, 2he, piercing - Etc. The skill required is often much lower than a "Pure" melee weapon of same QL.

I will say a hammer is the best - If you can afford it. IMHO Hammers and beams should have a heavy weapons requirement to weild (and it should be green for enforcers - Or atrox - Or something)

But MA attacks with *weapons* are better than MA attacks with *nothing at all* which was my point.

[________________Ming]

"But MA attacks with *weapons* are better than MA attacks with *nothing at all* which was my point."

No.

I'm going to assume by MA attacks you mean damage output for an MA, and not attacks made with the MA skill. Big difference.

A martial artist's damage output with any MA weapon I've seen goes down. I put my points into 2HE, a LOT of points. There is no MA 2HE weapon so my testing is limited to parry sticks before they had blunt req's.

The hammer will increase an MA's damage output, because:

1) it hits reaaaally hard compared to our fists, harder than brawl
2) it doesn't interfere with our fists, so we get all of our regular damage PLUS a hammer hit.

So your statement is incorrect. Change it to, an MA with a hammer hits harder than an MA with just his fists, and I'll agree. Otherwise, you're wrong.