How to make skills (and levels) something worth attaining.

[______________Tyveil]

This is a suggestion directly to Funcom on a very broad topic, and I'm sure many of you will either agree or disagree. Please give feedback. I'll give an example to make perfectly clear what I mean by the subject line.

Say I'm an NT with 235 in nanoprogramming. Upon gaining the next level I'm able to pump some points into it and raise it to 240 (with stat bonuses?). Now what does that added 5 points of Nanoprogramming do for me? Absolutely squat, unless I just happen to need to assemble an implant that requires between 236-240 NP. This is also why most people save IP's until they find an item that requires the skill. I say make the skills worth training, make every point count. How? Add a range to determine success.

For example: an implant that now requires 240 NP to assemble (~QL50 shining), would instead require a range, where 240 would assure reasonable success. You're percentage of success/failure would instead go off of a table something like this:

NanoP Success%
190_____5%
200____10%
210____15%
220____20%
230____40%
240____60%
250____70%
260____75%
270____80%
280____85%
290____90%

And of course every point of NP inbetween would raise your percentage success at assembling. Of course the table above probably isn't perfect, but I'm sure a formula could be devised that would achieve balance and could be applied all around.

This would make me want to raise my NanoProgramming at every level. It would make me look forward to gaining those levels because I'd know 90% of the implants I work with would be affected by my higher skill. Don't you think a 290 nanoprogrammer should have an easier time assembling a QL 50 implant than a 240 NP?

I used Nanoprogramming only as an example. This formula should be used for every trade skill.

Now let me explain why it would be easy to implement.

The game already does a check when you try and assemble an item, your skill vs the items requirements. If you're too low, you fail. Simply make this a more complex method with a randomizer to check vs a success table rather that flat skill vs flat requirement.

These skills would need to be put on a timer per fail. Otherwise people with a 5% success rate would just keep on plugging. Give em a timer, and if they want to sit there for an hour just to assemble one implant (or whatever), let them. Doesn't need to be too harsh, maybe 30 seconds to a minute? There is already skill timers in place for objects like treatment kits so this really shouldn't be a big deal.

[______________Tyveil]

Ok, I didn't think these would get a whole lot of reaction.. the old if its not broken why fix it kind of thing. People can relate better to things affecting their short term game play. Readily apparent bugs, horribly unbalancing issues with programs, weapons or armor, etc. But the fact is the system needs to be looked at, if not today, then the next. This is something that effects the game as a whole, not just a selective group, and in my opinion, is in dire need of reworking.

By your lack of responses I assume you're happy with the system the way it is now. Please give me a few reasons why?

[__________WGMelchior]

There aren't that many people posting here.

I'll add my remarks on your idea, and hopefully improve it.


Most people don't want the items they spent a lot (things costs much in this game) of credits to get. And if someone else blows it up, then it's only going to get worse.

So instead of having a % failure chance when you are just below, why not have a % chance of an improvement if you are above the requirements?


Weapons deals more damage if you have higher skills. The requirements stays exactly the same though. Thus, if I ask someone who is really good at making implants, she/he should get better results. Why not have a small chance (that improves with skill) to get a bonus on the created item?


Normally, you'll create a head implant of creation which adds 20 skill points (just an example). This is what people can create if they manage to just meet the NP requirement.

If you are good at NP, you can manage to create a high-quality head implant of creation. This would add like 21 skill points. The requirements would be the same though.

If you are lucky, and you have a high skill, you could build a perfect head implant of creation, which would add lets say 22 skill points. The requirements could even be lowered or something, because the creator found new ways to ease the use of it. Now this should be quite uncommon, but it would still be something to aim for.


Would this mean that people always go to the people with high NP? No, I don't think so. They will charge way more. So if you have money to burn, you can get a better result. The bonus shouldn't be to large.


How about that?

[Feetus]

Hey - I'm in favor of this! That's a great idea! It is way too damn expensive of the IP's to make use of most of the trade skills. I couldn't imagine myself trying to invest in anything other than compu lit & nano programming...you pretty much need these to stay in the game anyways. A percent chance system would be great!

The only thing I could see being difficult would be the timers to prevent you from trying too frequently. I'm not sure how they implent it in their code, but what I could see happening would be that you could only create one implant every so often. Let me demonstrate - if you were to try to assemble a cluster and an implant and failed, the game would then have to prevent you from assembling those items again. The problem I think developers might run into would be coding it so that you can still create other implants while unable to put together the nano cluster and implant you just failed with. This could get very complex and likely buggy. Right now assembling implants does work...I would rather have people with 5% chance creating implants than have bugs.

Of course, I am stating all of this not knowing the internal architecture of the code. Perhaps this would be simple for them.

Either way - I think something along these lines needs to be done. Bravo to both of you for thinking up such wonderful things!

=)

[Holinor]

Ok, first post, the total rewamp of skill system, is a great idea, but probably impossible to create in this game. It would mean a complete rewamp of the basic class and skill system. Like doing it all from the beginning. But if ya ever get in touch with some designers and programmers. keep that idea, and make such a game yerself!

Second idea, high skill giving bonus to implants.. I just love it. It does not have to be much, as you said, +1 +2, maybe lessen the reqs, its enough.. But can you believe the boost in trade that would create?! High level chars, building basic implants to the left and right, then keeping the ones with special bonuses and auctioning them out to newer players..? Newer players, screaming for good creators to make them this or that implant, ready to pay every try to get this or that bonus in it? It would be a Trade bonanza! Not just people selling and hardly noone buying, but real, 24h trade between everyone. And the engineers.. A thing like that could even make them try out simple weaponbuilding, as hard as it is. If they got the right bonus on a gun, it could actually be worth the total cost of all the parts,, maybe even more to one player or another....

Yep, me like a lot!

[Feetus]

Hey - while we're talking about trade and stuff - how about a huge trade complex where people could lease out space to have their own vending machine! I get a lot of stuff I would like to sell to people instead of to the machines because it would be more useful to them and I just don't get much from the machines anyways. I often end up trying to get rid of some of it for free. I think it would be great to be able to setup my own selling booth somewhere and just dump off all of my items and set prices on them. Then people could shop around this player made mall, or whatever it might be, and purchase things at a cheaper price. As it stands...it just takes too much of my time for not enough money for me to try to sell my old stuff or the crap I pick up on missions. I could make more in the same amount of time by just giving it away and doing another mission.

What does everyone else think? Wanna have your own stand where you can sell your own stuff? I do!!!

[______________Tyveil]

In response to nomoores post...

>>>
Ok, first post, the total rewamp of skill system, is a great idea, but probably impossible to create in this game. It would mean a complete rewamp of the basic class and skill system. Like doing it all from the beginning. But if ya ever get in touch with some designers and programmers. keep that idea, and make such a game yerself!
<<<<


I will attempt to explain the point I tried to get across in the first post. My proposal DOES NOT require a rewrite of the entire skill system. Checking success against a skill table rather than 100% succeed or fail is not a hard thing to code. Just have to add one or two mathematical formulas to the method that is called to check success.

And in response to iLL's post...
>>>
The only thing I could see being difficult would be the timers to prevent you from trying too frequently.
<<<

No actually this would be a simple thing as well. They would have to not put in a timer for each item, but simply 1 timer for the skill (nanoprogramming for example), the way treatment already works. However, the timer is only activated upon failure, so if you don't succeed, you have to wait 30 sec to 1 min before your next attempt to combine with ANY item (time could be adjusted to a fair level).

WGMelchoirs ideas are good too, certainly an improvement on the current system.

[______________AgentX]

Do not get me wrong. I'm all for the ideas of bonuses for the implants. My only comment is to the idea of low lvl players looking for high lvl "combiners". A low lvl player does not have much to offer a high lvl character moneywise. Of course a lot of small donations....but still.

[Feetus]

y only comment is to the idea of low lvl players looking for high lvl "combiners".

Hey - no one said you HAVE to charge to combine an implant. Why not be nice? Oh...and do it for them for free while they're little...and when they grow up...perhaps they'll remember you - when they can now pay ya to do it...if you're kinda enough to do it for free when they're little though.

[______________reggie]

MAKING IMPLANTS IS ALREADY INSANELY MUCH WORK. DON'T MAKE IT MORE COMPLEX THAN IT ALREADY IS.

[__________WGMelchior]

Reggie, which game are you playing? I mean, take cluster, click on implant. Simple? Yes. Too simple? Seems so.

And lay of the caps, please.


If you want to pay the price a high level NT will charge you (they won't do with 1k, I tell you) then you should get better results. If you want a cheaper product, then you'll ask a lower level NT. Remember that in no way will the result be worse than it is now.

[______________reggie]

Heh.. ur the first person I've met who have that view on it.... lucky you, always looking on the bright side of life eh?
Thing is, a lot of ppl say that making implants is tedious work.
One of the recent days I saw a post in the shopping channel that went like "UGH....... 4 hours of implant madness...... I just want to get this **** all overwith.... anyone out there with 315 NP ??"

I think that describes a lot.

First, you gotta plan out how to build your implants, using lists of which parts goes where and third-party applications to design the best possible implant layout for your character.

("I need a matmet implant, I could use a shining metmet for this eye implant, but then it will require int instead of ag, which means I have to lower from ql70 to ql50 as my int is lower, i should use driving as the shining on my eye, I can put matmet in my r.waist instead, but oh there's goes my strength, gotta redesign this sh*it...").

And then it's obtain the parts. Running shops, running shops... doing the run round between all the cities, all the shops.... taking days before you have all your parts... not mentioning all the time you spent doing missions to get all that cash.

And then it's find someone with a high enough NP to combine your parts. And if you're the kind who like to tweak like me, it's go look for feline's grace and iron circle and treatment buffs, and then it's exchange the armor parts you take off can with medsuits, because you made sure the implant is the max. you can wear... and then it's buff to get the armor parts back on afterwards.

And all this is taking into consideration that you KNOW how the implant system works.... which is really the hardest parts.... all those newbies striving, and wasting all their mission reward on augmentations that has a higher QL than the clusters because they don't know how things work and there isn't a manual and people tell you the wrong stuff everywhere, no one seems to know anything correctly before they hit level 50... lots of trial and error and wasted cash..



And on top of this, you want the NP skill to have an influence on the finished product, so that now it's not sufficient to find someone with NP 215 to assemble an implant requiring NP 215 for you, now you want to find someone with NP600 to do them for you to have a reasonable chance of the implant working properly, or else all your hard work has been a waste and you will have to gather the parts and the money over again.

[______________reggie]

Or even with an "always-works" guarantee.... ... my point is still as valid. Because everyone will look for that even-better nanoprogrammer, and basically the confusion will be even greater.

[__________WGMelchior]

Someone with say 500 NP will most likely charge more than someone with 100NP. Correct?

If I pay more, I should get a better product. Correct?

I see no problem with this.

If your whole gameplay experience is based on twinking, then I don't see why you would complain about having a chance to get better equipment.

I mean, in no way will that 100NP become worse after this. The bonus will not be 'worth it', but it would better than nothing, right?