Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: The Truth about the Ares Pact

  1. #1

    The Truth about the Ares Pact

    Although the foregoing analysis was prepared by an employee of Omni-Tek of Rubi-Ka Corporation ("OTRK"), it has been drafted almost exclusively with a view to those Clans who are not signatory to the Ares Pact. It has been prepared in the interests of peace and in the hope that what little political stability remains on Rubi-Ka can indeed be preserved.

    A LEGAL COMMENT ON THE ARES PACT

    The Ares Pact is indeed a disturbing, oppressive document – not only for an employee of OTRK, but also for the members of the Clan community. It is disturbing in the sense that, by the action of very few, they can simply and effectively condemn the planet to a state of war; it is oppressive because it is heavily biased to the detriment of Clans whose members number less than 100.

    OPPRESSION OF NON-SIGNATORY CLANS

    Perhaps the most disturbing aspect is that whether the non-signatory Clans realize it or not, they are bound to the Ares Pact by virtue of its vague and presumptuous statements. This is made quite clear by two casual, passive observations: (i) the Preamble to the Ares Pact clearly states "[w]e, the members of the Clans, in order to bring unity and peace to our land, have hereby joined in the Council of Ares…" [emphasis added]; and (ii) despite consistently referring to the "guilds that form the Council of Ares", the language mentioned in subsection (i) above, coupled with the evident fact that the Ares Pact fails to list the Clans who are signatory thereto, convincingly implies that the Council of Ares represents all Clans.

    For those of you who may hold the opinion (and who have believed the Council’s statements to date that it is merely a "defensive alliance"), Article 1 of the Ares Pact states quite clearly that it is a "military alliance", and that it is the "aim of the alliance to provide a common defense for all members of the Clans" [emphasis added]. The implications of these statements of purpose are clear: (i) the Council of Ares is an explicit military machine, and apparently has no interest, in spite of claims made in Article 11, in engaging in the political affairs of the Clan community; (ii) this is qualified, however, by stating that its "aim" is common defense; and (iii) whether the Clan community accepts it or not, the Council of Ares will defend you, even if that very action means drawing you into war.

    The duplicity of the Council in drafting the Ares Pact is revealed with specific reference to its "aim". A cursory reading of the Ares Pact would indeed make it seem as if that was the Council’s only purpose and intention. However, as it is only an "aim" and not a sole and/or exclusive duty, the Council is granted a great deal of room to manoeuvre around this language without notice, and thereby betray the very Clans it has bound and the Clans it supposedly protects.

    The Council reveals this betrayal, and the true nature of its intent, in Article 11, by stating that "It is the duty of the guilds to: …actively participate in all initiatives to establish an effective government for the Clans." For a strictly military association whose purpose is to "provide a common defense", this is certainly a most surprising duty to force upon its members.

    With the issuance of resolution R-001 by the Omni-Tek Security Council ("OTSEC") on November 11, 29476, and the subsequent refusal to comply by the Council of Ares, OTSEC forces are poised to exercise their legally-conferred right to enter into Clan-occupied territory, and to arrest and prosecute members of the Council of Ares, so long as the non-signatory Clan community is not harmed. It is the choice of each individual Clan citizen to either stand aside or take militant action against OTSEC forces.

    What must be realized, however, is that it was not the choice of the non-signatory Clan citizens to permit or refute the entry of OTSEC forces. As a result of the above, the Council of Ares has made that decision for you. They have denied your moral right to freedom of choice, and have thereby put your lives, and the lives of your families, at risk. This seems similarly foolish in the context of the defensive organization which claims to do nothing but good for the Clan community.

    OPPRESSION OF SMALLER CLANS

    After analyzing the Council of Ares’ gridsite (specifically the section outlining its constituent Clans), I have computed the following compositional shares of the supposedly democratic High Assembly, which are current on the site and in official records as at November 13, 29476:

    - Clan Anarchist Syndicate: 355 members; 31% of High Assembly

    - Backstab-Inc.com: 250 members; 22% of High Assembly

    - Leet: 185 members; 16% of High Assembly

    - Red Tigers: 109 members; 9% of High Assembly

    - Mercury Dragons: 94 members; 8% of High Assembly

    - Constrictor: 85 members; 7% of High Assembly

    - RK Black Market: 55 members; 5% of High Assembly

    - Vision: 20 members; 2% of the High Assembly

    Total High Assembly members: 1,145

    The Ares Pact contemplates a pro-rata decision-making structure of "one-member, one-vote", and, accounting for the November 12 member-list amendments, Clan Anarchist Syndicate nonetheless exercises a tremendous amount of power over its partners.

    The November 12 press release issued by Fiqh, the PR Officer with Clan Anarchist Syndicate, states "[t]he Board of Guild Leaders has absolute legislative and executive authority of the Council of Ares until the enactment of the Ares Pact by the guilds' membership in an organisational vote." What he is implying is that Redruum (CAS), Windguaerd (MD), Fellowman (RT), Nikolae (Vision), Niktorius (Leet), Bigboa (Const), Gallic (BS) and Minatae (RKMB) – the eight leaders of the eight signatory Clans, amounting to a mere 0.7% of the signatories to the Ares Pact - are in charge of the lives, destines and futures of all signatory Clans, until the six-member Cabinet is elected by the High Assembly.

    Without delving into too much detail, there is one fatal flaw with the manner in which this Cabinet is selected. Consider the following hypothetical situation, which contemplates a situation arising in which groups of five candidates are equally tied for all six Cabinet positions:

    "if more than 5 candidates are eligible for the position by reason of equal vote counts, the Guild Leaders will vote…" [Article 5. Emphasis added]:

    - candidates 1 through 5 are tied at n votes each;

    - candidates 6 through 10 are tied at n-1 votes each;

    - candidates 11 through 15 are tied at n-2 votes each;

    …ad infinitum.

    See the problem? The Board of Guild Leaders is handicapped by the emphasized provision above if the number of tied candidates does not exceed five, even if such dynamic exists in perpetuity.
    The Ares Pact provides no mechanism for correcting this.

    Furthermore, given that, based on available information, there are eight Clans comprising the Council of Ares, and further given that, pursuant to Article 4 of the Ares Pact there are to be only six Member of the Cabinet, it becomes readily apparent that two of the eight Clans will lack any say whatsoever in the governance and policy of the Council of Ares. Given the aforementioned shares, it should be quite clear that Vision will be one of those bound to an organization in which it lacks power to control its destiny.

    It is worthwhile to note at this point that pursuant to Article 5 (paragraph three) of the Ares Pact only four of the eight Clans are currently in a position to ballot candidates, because Clans whose members number less than 100 are prohibited from introducing their own, unless they form a publicly-declared coalition with another signatory Clan and thereby surpass the 100-member requirement. This provision effectively denies these small Clans the right to individuality, and further eliminates any hope they may have at being represented in Cabinet.

    Unfortunately, there are no effective mechanisms of recourse should any of the smaller signatory Clans wish to redress abuses by either the Cabinet or this select group of individuals. The most effective means of achieving this would be the formation of three "Constitutional Shuras" pursuant to Article 8 of the Ares Pact. However, given that the Vision Clan will be reduced to 19 members as a result of its leader renouncing his membership in Vision for membership in the Council of Ares (which is contemplated to be a recognized faction unto itself), it is precluded from forming a Shura in accordance with the Ares Pact, as such Shura requires a minimum of 20 members. Even if it fulfilled the 20-member requirement, the final decision is inevitably made by the Board of Guild Leaders, and as such the entire Shura mechanisms operates only at a token ceremonial level.

    There are many other fatal flaws of this pact, but I only seek to address the most pressing points with respect to the current standoff between OTSEC and the Council of Ares.

    To the members of the Vision Clan: If nothing else, no matter how loud you scream, your voice will be drowned in a sea of tyranny; I urge you to review the Ares Pact for yourselves before dooming your members to death at the hands of OTSEC’s forces.

    To the non-signatory Clans: You are bound by this pact by virtue of implication; whether you accept the rule of the Council of Ares or not, they have seen fit to declare rule over you. They have also seen fit to draw you and your families into a war in which you previously had no part. Do not set a precedent of complacency in this matter – I can assure you it will haunt the balance of your days.
    Last edited by Ammicus; Nov 14th, 2002 at 01:17:47.

  2. #2
    Monilith stood at the gridfeed, reading off the rambling before him, cigarette as always hanging from his mouth as he stared at it, the glowing screen in his eyes. He punched a button on the console in front of him, appropriatly deemed "Record", and began to speak in a mumble:

    "rom what I read, I gather that The Council of Ares only intention is a military one, and has no intention to involve themselves in politcal manners. I suppose we must look at who they are; they are the clans. The clans ideals are based on those of fighting for their freedom, and they have no means for political speakings as long as they can secure freedom through battle. If you join the clans, you must understand that that is their mission; a world free of Omni-Tek rule.

    Well, then you must look at what the Ares Pact wanted to accomplish: the fact that they stated a document, weather it is establishing an all military sort of rule, the very fact that they issued a document is political. This document can only be enforced under political rule, and while military influence may lean this document to be more accepted, if the people dont like it, than the clans, who are here for freedom, simply wont accept it. They will simply through it off like they do Omni-Tek law. And why shouldnt they?

    They seem to have every right to drop this document. The forces of the various clan establishments greaty outnumber the Council of Ares members. Wouldnt it be funny, Mr. Age, if the Ares Pact was destroyed in a military battle between the opposers and the supporters? It just may come to that.

    But, I suppose I agree with what you say. But I think it must also be understood that its absolutely possible for any document on this planet to be abolished, no matter how well written it is and no matter how good it may seem to sound. I think we can take examples from the Tir Accord."

    Monilith punched the record button again, the console flashing a quick "Thank you" as he casually walked off.
    Reynaldo "Monilith" Griffel
    Omni-Tek
    RK1

  3. #3
    The seemingly endless maze of decrepit shacks and pools of toxic sludge were surrounded and enveloped by a pervasive, encompassing shrowd of darkness. It was difficult enough on any normal night to navigate this maze of filth, the remnants of a once-glorious frontier capital city, even with the added excitement of evading bursts of lightning and a torrid, bone-chilling rain.

    But, as seemed to happen far too often in past weeks, this was no normal night. For on this eve, each shack which stood before him had multiple, identical copies; nascent and translucent, yet animated and swirling and dancing in front of him, mocking his every uncontrollable step. Each festering deposit of glowing green slime shimmered in synchronized waves, penetrating his eyes and irritating his darkened, clouded mind. The neon lights behind him of Omni-Entertainment were but flickering candles burned to ember, possessing none of their usually comforting, guiding illumination.

    Alamexis Age narrowed his eyes to thin slits, attempting to bring the world before him into focus. Even though he was in actuality a mere 10 meters from the entrance to the backyard which cradled his apartment - and his warm, heavenly bed - it literally seemed a world away. An arduous, painful journey only to be undertaken after sufficient preparation and rest. But he had no such luxury this evening.

    Succumbing finally to the fatigue of each and every muscle in his body, he steadied himself on a nearby rail. The metal had oxydized through decades of poisonous precipitation, and as his bare hand grasped and clenched around the circular metal tube, an agonizing scraping sound ricocheted around in his skull. After a 10 second pause, Alamexis released his grasp and lifted his hand within eyesight. Noticing that it was now orange, stained from the metalic rust, he began giggling uncontrolably.

    A nearby probe, or rather all three of them, emitted a constant high-pitched beep. Alamexis paid no attention to either of the two probes, thankful only that their cameras had not been trained on his zig-zagged strides.

    After what seemed like hours - days even - Alamexis passed slowly through the front door of this apartment, slamming his right shoulder into the frame. As he looked up, the view laid before his mind forced him to freeze. After staring through the front halway into the back room for two full minutes, he breathed a sigh of relief. "...this isn't an Omni-Med hospital. Phew."

    With the burning sensation of fatigue running through to his very core, Alamexis stumbled over to his personal grid terminal. A flashing red indicator pulsated repeatedly, and seemed as the visualization of the "beep...beep...beep" that the four probes he had encountered only two hours ago had emitted. Only two new messages.

    Alamexis peeled his trenchcoat off and tossed it aside. As it landed on the cold, white tiled floor, it did not land softly. Rather, it emitted the sound that a rollerrat might make as it is being slowly squashed beneath the heavy armoured foot of a brotosaurus. He giggled uncontrollably yet again, at nothing in particular.

    His mind suddenly flashed a flicker of remembrance - he had one message waiting. The "re:" line said it all: Your Calculations are Now Wrong. He struggled to focus on the name of the sender, but it eluded him. The names of all three senders were far too blury to discern under the lights of this hospital. He would have to petition Omni-Med to do something about that. He briefly skimmed the text of the message, but failed in all attempts to process its contents. In futility, he selected the bright-blue link embedded in the message and his screen was immediately warped from a pale grey to a shadowed black.

    The white text super-imposed on the black background made it quite easy for Alemexis to read, and even in his debilitated state he realized the implication of the words surrounded by that blood-red graphic box with a ferocious immediacy.

    "Grid, er...computer, new message to Fiqh:

    Fiqh, although I undoubtedly realize that you must be relishing in the fact that you have rendered my hard-worked calculations irrelevant, I am currently not in a position to amend it accordingly. Thus, I will thus instead quote from my battle status indicator thusly:

    Alamexis hit the Council of Ares for 200 points of legal damage.
    The Council of Ares hit Alamexis for 150,000 points of hahaha-we-messed-up-your-calculations-by-updating-our-member-list damage. Critical hit!


    Yours so very truly, Malcom Alamexis Age

    end dictation."

    Alamexis yawned. His condition was worsening. The effectiveness of the loaf of bread he had consumed on his ten-day journey through the Omni-Entertainment sewers was severely, sadly, diminished. He knew that he would descend into darkness at any given moment.

    "Gri...er...hey you, begin new message to Ms. Gartner:

    Ms. Gartner, although I do appreciate your wonderful company, I am hereby putting you on notice that, notwithstanding any indication to the contrary, you may no longer take any action which causes, either directly or indirectly, the "evolution" of two beers after work into two pitchers, as I can no longer withstand the emotional and physical pressures of attempting to locate my hospital, dodging hundreds of probes and swiming three miles through pools of slime, which inevitably results from such actions on your part. Oh, and tell the Council of Ares I'm mad at them. End dictation."

    His chores for the night over, and realizing that he would have to face this world again in a mere six hours, Alamexis Age crawled into bed. As he lay, fully clothed and soaking wet, he could not help but giggle at two things: one, that, to his knowledge, Ms. Garther wouldn't even know what an Ares was, and two, that constant "beep..beep...beep" of those seven probes that eventually ushered in the darkness...

    ((OOC: given that no one seems to want to respond my little Ares Pact piece, and given that me+2 pitchers=silly thoughts, I thought I'd have some fun with this thread ))

  4. #4
    I enjoyed reading it

    Kinda nice to see their little concept picked apart as skillfully as you did. The problem is, that any reply is too short to honor the length of your post and to accompany your gigantic piece of lawyerish work on this forum properly
    Director "Meister"
    President, Omni-Pol
    Level 207 Omni-Tek Dictator
    Meister's Reinforced Suit - Bureaucrats may be gimps, but at least we know how to look good.
    Account Created: 2001-06-27 23:07:32

  5. #5
    You did a fantastic job with your interpretation of the Ares Pact

    ooc) Same ooc

    kbg
    "Dixie" - Young adventurer, anthropologist, marketing rep for R.U.R.

    Kiyoko "Barlau" Grebel - Martial Artist, PR Director, Law Society of Rubi-Ka

  6. #6
    Wow, nice work!
    Charles 'Kithrak' Houston - Equipment
    Administrator, Omni-Admin
    Bringing the politics of Rubi-Ka to life!

    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster....when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..." -Friedrich Nietzsche-

    "By denying support to the possibility of peace, the Council of Truth is guranteeing an outcome of war."-Administrator Houston-

  7. #7
    I liked it but it seemed to be a really long-winded way of saying what almost everyone already knew about CAS/CoA.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  8. #8
    Well I don't think that's accurate Jynne. I for one was not familiar with how the Council of Ares was established. Nor was I aware of the implications for it's members.
    I didn't think CoA was any more unrepresentative of the will of its members than other Clan organizations.

    The fact that there are many Omni-Tek employees who are able to articulate actual issues is impressive. Perhaps if the Clans spend more time reflecting on whys and hows of their actions before causing trouble, they would better equiped to challange OTRK.
    ======================

    blix01/spookiepants/stiffwood

  9. #9

    Amended!

    In the interests of fairness to the members of the Clans who comprise the Council of Ares, and to prevent the spread of misinformation, I have amended the above analysis to account for the updating of the Council's member list. I have further amended the "OPPRESSION OF SMALLER CLANS" section to account for this new information.

    Now, responding in kind:

    - Monilith: emailed you today.

    - Meister, Kithrak (and Bonefish from the OTSEC thread): thank you for your flattering comments! I will try to keep this updated on the BLP site (*cough*subterfuge*cough*) in case you ever get...curious again...

    - Barlau: thank you! didn't really understand the second line of your post, though...

    - Jynne: although I agree with you in the sense that it further illustrates their obvious line of thinking (which everyone does know), few realize the accuity of the CoA's intentions; that being, domination

    - Blix: ((OOC w/this one - don't want Meister hunting me down for treason : I actually have to give a great deal of credit to the people who came up with the idea and actually drafted the document. I'm not a lawyer in RL, but get to play with all sorts of legal documents every day, and I have to say that the sheer completeness of the Pact is impressive. They certainly didn't leave a lot to the imagination. They still have some errors to clean up, but nonetheless I give them utmost credit for trying and doing a damn good job at that /OOC))

    Note: Another edit - decreased the total number of High Assembly members - should have been 1,145 - forgot that the guild leaders don't sit in the legislative body.
    Last edited by Ammicus; Nov 14th, 2002 at 01:19:52.

  10. #10

    Distorted Minds

    To speak to those that do not listen is futile. Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis a folly to be wise.

    Alamexis, you do only understand what you want to understand. I also know that anything like democracy is an alien thought to you, for you would rather like to enforce your fascist corporate rule upon us.

    Your "legally-conferred right to enter into Clan-occupied territory, and to arrest and prosecute" is something that exists only in your dream world. If you or your cronies are found to be actually trying to embark on such a lunatic action, you will be transferred back to where you belong on the fastest way possible - reclaim.

    Meister, you should mind that, too. Keep your hired thugs out of Tir, that's not your turf there. Demanding the clans to keep of your ground and repeatedly violating our land is not what I would consider consequent behaviour. But the fact that we asked you to leave instead of firing at you was perhaps even more disturbing for you. Your people are drilled to shoot first and think later. I need not remind you that Oni-Pol's reputation is only surpassed by that of Dark Carnival, the department that boasted that they assassinated the Radiman decoy.

    And Kithrak, I've heared from many people that you are the best diplomat OTRK has enlisted, yet I fail to read anything from you but accusations and attempts to incite revolts. You say that you are interested in peace but instead you do everything possible to avoid it.

    I keep reading the same lies and half-truths here all the time. Do you think that it will become true by some miracle if you repeat it over and over again like a mantra?
    Last edited by Daimoness; Nov 17th, 2002 at 00:26:53.
    Corrine Daimoness Wright
    - Veteran of Apocalypse
    - General of the Mercury Dragons (ret.)
    - Member of the Grumpy Old Crat Bunch

    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Daimoness
    To speak to those that do not listen is futile. Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis a folly to be wise.
    Tell me, Daimoness, how legitimate does the above quote appear coming from someone who has completely ignored the topic of this discussion? Perhaps you should re-read your statements and amend your tirade accordingly.

    Furthermore, had you taken the time to actually learn who it is you are dealing with in this regard, you would not be so pervasively accusatory nor blatantly wrong.

  12. #12

    View of a simple clansman

    Mr. Age.

    I am but a simple man living a simple life not too much unlike those who drafted this pact. I do not understand leagelize nor do I wish to. Such jargon is to be left to the beurcrats and the employees of the corporate entity known as OTRK. I do however know and understand the meaning behind the pact and its intent. I doubt I could stand up to your corporate linguistic capabilities but I would like to try to explain to you, OTRK and all the free clansmen what one un-associated clansmen thinks of this pact.

    First I would like to break down as much as possible as I understand.

    Preamble:
    We, the members of the Clans, in order to bring unity and peace to our land, have hereby joined in the Council of Ares to provide common defence and a rallying point for the Clans. To guide the Council of Ares we, the members of the Clans, hereby establish these Articles of Constitution of the Council of Ares.

    We, the members of the Clans, in order to bring unity and peace to our land, have hereby joined in the Council of Ares to provide common defence and a rallying point for the Clans


    Now, I know for a fact that I am not a member of this and those clansmen who are in the same line as I am understand with out any need for anyone to tell us that “we” who are not apart of the group of clans who make up the CoA are not included in the “WE” part of this statement. Ask any clansmen who does not bear the insignia and they will tell you the same.

    To guide the Council of Ares we, the members of the Clans, hereby establish these Articles of Constitution of the Council of Ares.

    This statement with the understood definition of “WE” allows the free clansmen who are not apart of the CoA and understanding that it is not just a few select clan leaders but the entire body of the CoA that provide a common defence and rallying point for all the clans. At a time when the CoT or any of the other major clan factions have their head in the sand is it not in the best interest of all clans to have some sort of organized defence force? From what I have understood from discussions with members of the CoA if we do not want their help they will not give it.

    Statement of Purpose:
    The Council of Ares is a military alliance of Clan guilds. The aim of the alliance is to provide a common defence for all the members of the Clans until such time as the Clans establish an effective self-governing structure.


    This statement clearly states that the CoA is providing defence UNTIL such time as the Clans establish an effective self-government. Not as you have implied until they create a government.

    The membership of the Council of Ares is open to all Clan guilds subject to their membership ratifying this Constitution in a guild-wide organizational vote. Ratification stands if 75% of the membership votes are supporting it.

    Please will any clansmen tell me when you actually had a voice in the CoT? When did you get the vote to decide who was in the CoT? At least the CoA realizes that it is essential for each and every clansmen to have a voice in weather or not they want to be represented by the CoA for their defensive “front line”.

    Article 3
    Structure

    The following organs will provide the operational capability of the Council of Ares:

    • The Board of Guild Leaders – an assembly of all leaders of every guild that forms the Council of Ares;
    • The High Assembly – every single member of the guilds that form the Council of Ares apart from Guild Leaders;
    • The Cabinet – 6 members chosen through election;
    • The Constitutional Shuras – any group of 20 members of the guilds that form part of the Council of Ares.
    Article 4
    Member of the Cabinet

    The governing body of the Council of Ares is to be a 6-member Cabinet. The position of the Member of the Cabinet (MC) is open to any clan member who is:

    1. A full member of a guild that is part of the Council of Ares alliance; and
    2. Not a leader of any guilds that form the Council of Ares.



    Now fellow Clansmen, please tell me when the the CoT or any other governing body who represented the clans or even attempted to allowed you the chance to help govern? The creators who at the time are leaders of their own independent clans had the forethought to make sure that they themselves could not make the decisions for the CoA. Does this look like a group of power hungry individuals? No, this looks like clansmen who saw the failings of the old ways and how we where represented. Now all clansmen have a chance to help mold our future.


    The candidates to be put on the List of Candidates are to be elected by the popular support from within their own guilds that count at least 100 members. No more than 1 candidate per guild is to be allowed, irrespective of the guild size. The guilds numbering less than 100 have it at their discretion to unite into Coalitions. It is their permanent and non-extinguishable right to do so or refuse to do so. Once the Coalition numbers more than 100 members, it receives the right to put forward a candidate from among its numbers. No more than 1 candidate per Coalition is to be allowed, irrespective of the size of the Coalition. No guild of at least 100 members may join a Coalition. Coalitions are to be officially declared and made known among the Clans.

    This part of the election process clearly states that regardless of how big a single clan is they will not have any over bearing authority over the Cabinet. It is also in the wisdom of this pacts founders to allow smaller clans the ability to put forth a candidate of their own so as not to allow the much larger clans the avenue to create a biased scale leaning towards their ideas and goals.

    This is what you said:
    It is worthwhile to note at this point that pursuant to Article 5 (paragraph three) of the Ares Pact only four of the eight Clans are currently in a position to ballot candidates, because Clans whose members number less than 100 are prohibited from introducing their own, unless they form a publicly-declared coalition with another signatory Clan and thereby surpass the 100-member requirement. This provision effectively denies these small Clans the right to individuality, and further eliminates any hope they may have at being represented in Cabinet


    What document where you reading??

    In case less than 6 Candidates can be appointed to the List of Candidates through the above procedure because of the lack of required guild numbers any additional members as required up to the total of 6 to be appointed to the List of Candidates by the combined Nomination of at least 3 guild leaders.

    In their wisdom the founders of this pact saw fit not to allow a less than even amount of cabinet members at any one time. They also saw that no one single person can initiate a choosing of the off number candidate.

    Article 6
    Allegiance Clause

    Upon election and for the duration of office a clan member elected to the position of the Member of the Cabinet shall renounce the allegiance to his guild and, all Members of the Cabinet shall form an organization bearing the name “Council of Ares”.


    This is probably the most important clause of this document that I have read so far. This clause alone assures me that NONE of the cabinet members have the ability to be persuaded by their current guild leader. It also gives each member of each clan the assurance that in no way can the cabinet be forced or leveraged against by one of the larger clans. “Cabinet shall renounce the allegiance to his” To say the least this part alone re-assures me that no cabinet member will be a clan leader as well.

    Obligation to vote
    It is a personal and guild-wide obligation of all members of the CoA to vote in elections to form the Cabinet. An option not to select any of proposed candidates must be offered to all members of the guilds in a Cabinet vote.


    Tell me fellow clansmen, When did you vote for Henry Radimen to represent us in the talks with OTRK and Phillip Ross? (Not in my life time)
    Now, I am going to break this next article down a bit so I can understand it as well as I hopes you do.



    Article 8
    Duties & Restrictions on the Cabinet

    The Duties, Obligations and Restrictions on the Cabinet are as follows:

    • It is the primary Duty and Obligation of the Cabinet to organise and conduct the common defence of all Clans throughout the Clan territory. The Cabinet is hereby authorised to deploy military means in achieving the objectives of the common defence.


    Note! Every single statement thus far as tried to connect the leaders of the clans associated with the CoA as those who will be and are pulling the strings. However as I stated and dissected above this is not the case. It is not the guild leader of the CAS nor is it the clan leader of the Mercury Dragons who will be calling when and where the coalition of clans under the pact CoA go to action. No! it is elected cabinet members, people who each and ever single clansmen voted for!

    It is the secondary Duty of the Cabinet to organise operations in defence of the Clans and to request member-guilds to provide troops for implementation of military objectives.

    Request is the major word in this comment. They do not order, demand no they REQUEST! When did the police force of OTRK ever request our help in the Dust Brigade hunts? Or for that matter when have the OTRK ever request the help to combat the ever growing population of the Cyborg in the northern territories?? NEVER!

    • It is the secondary Obligation of the Cabinet to accede and carry out all orders of the government of the Clans when such comes to into existence, including the order to disband.
    • The Cabinet is further forbidden to act in any way to prevent the formation of effective government for all the Clans.
    • It is the secondary Restriction upon the Cabinet to interfere in the running of the Clans as a whole and/or guilds individually or involve itself in any political matter within the Clans. The Cabinet is further forbidden to act against the property and/or rights of any individual member of the Clans.
    • The Cabinet has express authority to organise a defensive action against any hostile act by a third party upon Clan territory.
    • The Cabinet has no independent authority to declare war upon a third party. Declaration of war is an independent matter for each guild of the Council of Ares.



    This in my opinion is the second most important comment(s) made in this document. Who that searches for power restricts themselves to giving up such power when a government of the Clans arise? Be it from the frutation of the CoA or from any other body? And you say they are power hungry? Where in that sentence alone does it show that goal? Where does it say in the following comments that the CoA will force its ideas and or agendas on any and all clans/clansmen? Instead it restricts itself from doing just that!

    And to top it off:
    Should at any time 3 Constitutional Shuras prove that the Cabinet has broken at least one of the above Duties, Obligations and Restrictions in any significant way, the Cabinet is to be divested of authority and a new Cabinet elected.


    The writers of this document has even put in a clause making it possible that if the sitting cabinet falls out of its duties and or does not follow its duties they will be replaced by a NEW ELECTION! Not by appointment. Tell me, When was the last time you thought the CoT was not doing the job they said they would do? And when did you not think last that there had to be some way to replace such inefficient governing policies such as running and hiding? Wouldn’t you not liked to of had the ability to replace those who had been giving charge of protecting and dealing with OTRK when they failed so miserably?


    Article 13
    Dissolution of the Council of Ares

    The Council of Ares shall disband if ordered to do so by a legitimate and effective government of the Clans


    I never read anywhere by the CoT or by OTRK that if at anytime the clans truly united and formed a self governing body that they would respect, disband and follow that bodies government.. have you?

    Article 14
    Withdrawal

    Any guild may withdraw from the Council of Ares for any reason provided that the membership is balloted and 75% majority achieved before


    It is still left up to the members (not the leadership) of each clan to decide weather or not they want to be apart of this.. A choice is given either way.

    Now, I know I have left out some articals, but as I said, I am a simple man with simple thoughts and all this leagel stuff hurts my head. But as a simple man trying to make a simple living in this turbulent world of strife, this is how I have read and understood what the CoA stands for. Regardless of what the members have done in the past, regardless of what may or may not happen, They have given us a choice.. one of which the CoT or OTRK never did. Is this not the thing our ancestors fought and died for? Is this not what we strive for? The ability to choose how we live, where we live and who leads us? You may get the best team of bearucrats to pick apart their document, Hell, for that matter you could probably do the same with the Tir Accord, but look deep, think deep, and open your minds. Or continue to walk with the blinds over your eyes and continue down the same path of destruction and anarchy we live in today.

    Parlipomenon
    Free clansman.

  13. #13

    Re: View of a simple clansman

    Although I do truly and sincerely admire your effort, and realize that perhaps my analysis was a bit complex, by injecting this debate with coinciding pleas regarding the Council of Truth (which were excessive and not even part of my original analysis) and your attempts to factionalize the issues at hand, you do nothing but distort the truth. In many cases, you even contradict what is "truth". There is only one clear exception in which you have proved my original analysis wrong.

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    I would like to try to explain to you, OTRK and all the free clansmen what one un-associated clansmen thinks of this pact.
    That is very admirable of you. But what you have to realize is that my analysis was prepared in the most objective sense possible. You will thus notice that in no single passage did I interject any moral or subjective judgments into the analysis. I relied exclusively on the wording of the Ares Pact itself, leaving interpretation up to the reader. As such, what you must realize is that, as I stated in the opening of my analysis, it was prepared exactly with people like you in mind.

    Quoting my own words:

    Originally posted by Alamexis
    It has been prepared in the interests of peace and in the hope that what little political stability remains on Rubi-Ka can indeed be preserved.
    I have no interest in war, and have actively lobbied against it. And never once did I urge the Clan community to abandon the Council of Ares - in fact, in my follow-up post announcing that I had amended my original analysis, I stated this unambivalent reason for doing so:

    Originally posted by Alamexis
    In the interests of fairness to the members of the Clans who comprise the Council of Ares, and to prevent the spread of misinformation, I have amended the above analysis...
    Now, proceeding with your "analysis:

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    Now, I know for a fact that I am not a member of this and those clansmen who are in the same line as I am understand with out any need for anyone to tell us that “we” who are not apart of the group of clans who make up the CoA are not included in the “WE” part of this statement. Ask any clansmen who does not bear the insignia and they will tell you the same.
    Had you taken the time to actually carefully read my analysis, you would realize that in no way did I say that you were actually or legally bound to the Ares Pact. In fact, I stated quite clearly:

    Originally posted by Alamexis
    [The Preamble fo the Ares Pact] coupled with the evident fact that the Ares Pact fails to list the Clans who are signatory thereto, convincingly implies that the Council of Ares represents all Clans.
    (emphasis added)

    The phrase "we, the members of the Clans" does convingly imply, not explicitly mean, that the Council of Ares intends to bind, or has completely failed to take into consideration, the non-signatory Clans. "We" cannot be interpreted in any other manner, quite simply because never once do they state who "we" is. Again, note that I said "implies"; never once did I state that you were bound to the Ares Pact, despite your attempts to twist the truth in this regard.

    Interestingly enough, you actually acknowledge that "we" may include the non-signatory clans:

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    ...the understood definition of “WE” allows the free clansmen who are not apart of the CoA and understanding that it is not just a few select clan leaders but the entire body of the CoA that provide a common defence and rallying point for all the clans.
    (emphasis added)

    I quite frankly missed any of the unaffiliated Clans stating that they wanted the Council of Ares to be their "rallying point" and "common defense". If you have knowledge that I don't, I would by all means urge you to incorporate it into your arguments instead of so blatantly contradicting yourself and making assumptions of those who have never agreed to such arrangement. And, should you wish to claim that you are not contradicting yourself, consider this statement from your analysis:

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    At a time when the CoT or any of the other major clan factions have their head in the sand is it not in the best interest of all clans to have some sort of organized defence force?
    (emphasis added)

    The above two statements imply that that you actually support the Ares Pact's all-inclusive language, even when you so vehemently deny that such arrangements exist at all. I fail to see how in one breath you can state that "we" does not include you and the other unaffiliated Clans, while in the next advocate and even substantiate that the "we" does include those parties.

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    At least the CoA realizes that it is essential for each and every clansmen to have a voice in weather or not they want to be represented by the CoA for their defensive “front line”.
    This is fraudulent misrepresentation of the truth on your part, which you further illustrate in your analysis of Article 8 of the Ares Pact:

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    it is elected cabinet members, people who each and ever single clansmen voted for!
    (emphasis added)

    The reason is this:

    From the Ares Pact, Article 2
    The membership of the Council of Ares is open to all Clan guilds subject to their membership ratifying this Constitution in a guild-wide organizational vote. Ratification stands if 75% of the membership votes are supporting it.
    Non-signatory Clans have no say unless and until they ratify the constitution and become formal members of the Council of Ares, as they cannot influence nor take part in the Council's decision-making apparatus.

    You also fail to grasp the objective, quantitative facts that I have presented:

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    This part of the election process clearly states that regardless of how big a single clan is they will not have any over bearing authority over the Cabinet. It is also in the wisdom of this pacts founders to allow smaller clans the ability to put forth a candidate of their own so as not to allow the much larger clans the avenue to create a biased scale leaning towards their ideas and goals.


    There is a very clear difference between "ability" and "actuality", and it is in that regard that your above-quoted statement fails to hold. As the quantum of the membership numbers in my original analysis clearly indicate, even though such "ability" may be enumerated into the Ares Pact, in "actuality" such "ability" is useless to Clans such as Vision, which for all intents and purposes is completely incapable of doing so.

    Your failure to grasp the practical aspects of the situation is further indicated when you speak of Members of Cabinet renouncing their allegiance to their Clan:

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    This is probably the most important clause of this document that I have read so far. This clause alone assures me that NONE of the cabinet members have the ability to be persuaded by their current guild leader.
    Whether or not a Member of Cabinet is persuaded by their guild leader is irrelevant on two fronts: (i) if the leader of the largest guild approaches his former guild member and applies pressure with a threat to withdraw if such leader does not get his, her, or its way, it is quite certain that such leader will excercise an undue amount of persuasive power over such member; and (ii) democracy is about persuasion. In order to effect any real change and to ensure that your voice is heard and taken into account, it is essential that you be able to persuade others that this is the propper and just course of action. Furthermore, as a guild leader is the principal representative of his, her or its Clan, you must realize that such leader will be the one offering advice in that regard. This also applies to your comment when you attempt to expand further on this point:

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    It also gives each member of each clan the assurance that in no way can the cabinet be forced or leveraged against by one of the larger clans.
    Originally posted by Forgiven
    In their wisdom the founders of this pact saw fit not to allow a less than even amount of cabinet members at any one time. They also saw that no one single person can initiate a choosing of the off number candidate.
    This is the one exception to my introductory statements of this response. It is on this point and on this point alone that you have proved me wrong, and it is a fact which I did not realize in my original analysis.

    At a time when members of the Clans, Neutrals and even OTRK should be working towards a final, lasting peace, it is statements like this:

    Originally posted by Forgiven
    ...continue to walk with the blinds over your eyes...
    that undermine our very efforts. Do not be so quick to assume that because we do not agree with with the words of a council whose very name means "war" that we are purposely and intentionally blind.

    Furthermore, and in closing, I think you would be quite hard-pressed to find anyone on this planet who could honestly and truly say that I "walk with the blinds over" my eyes. If you seek to make enemies out of those who may be friends, and assume that no one but you understands the plight of the Clan community, you ensure nothing but a complete and final purge of all life on the planet that we all - yes, you, I and all of the citizens of Rubi-Ka - call hoime.
    Last edited by Ammicus; Nov 17th, 2002 at 06:55:29.

  14. #14
    OOC: I would like to thank everyone who has taken the time and consideration to read and analyse my document. This was rather an enjoyable read /OOC

    I have only a couple of things to say:

    To Radein:
    In legal terms it would be called 'bona fide', i.e. 'good faith'. When Ares Pact was envisioned and written it was done so with the assumption that people would actually adhere to it. When the opposite was proved correct, it ceased to function.

    To Forgiven:
    Thank you, fellow clansman for your understanding of the meaning of the document We will prevail
    Long Live the Clans!

    Fiqh
    "Everything that one thinks about a lot becomes problematic" - Nietzsche
    Zorf
    Member of CAS
    Vito's Personal Atrox Punching Bag
    Holder of Pie
    Weilder of the Horrid Mauser
    Desecrator of the Temple of Three Winds
    Fiqh
    Member of CAS

  15. #15
    (( Wow this brings back some memories I wrote this while I was Alamexis, oh so long ago...before I had to kill him off! (note that Radein is a clanner )

    Fiqh, of course it's bona fide, and in an ooc sense, the pact was amazingly detailed. In an "IC" sense, Alamexis had quite a few ulterior motives, so his analysis was naturally biased somewhat!

    Too bad the CoA didn't succeed - you guys were doing amazing for awhile. ))

  16. #16
    ::gridlink established:: There will be no peace, The Tir Accord was obeyed. Those who have seen fit took controll and in the end your greed will consume you and cast us all into darkness. ::End of message::

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •