Buffing ruining low and mid level PvP - Please at least consider a fix

[___________Chlamydia]

Originally posted by Sillirrion
Buffing up is one thing, buffing with 150 HoTs and essences is another.

If by "another" you mean "smarter" then yes, your right.

This is stupid. maybe we can petition so people cant bring overequipped weapons into a fight cause its to unbalancing, or or or, if you have TO MANY NCU!

Cause god forbid that those who use strategy to plan thier toons, and have worked for the money it cost to twink NCU are better off than the ones who want to pop in, do a few days of missions and go try to take control of Rubi-Ka.

Jesus, shutup already. People who control the land are those that are able to claim it and hold it. Why cant some people just accept this? If they got room for outside buffs then you better learn to do the same. If its in the mechanics and not an exploit then its open for everyone to use (read: everyone, including yourself). Don't cry foul just cause you dont have the resources and forthought of others. Instead try to learn a few things.

Realize that people love to super twink thier characters, I seen level 20s agents with QL 90 implants in, NW battles are for those people too, not just yourself.

Sorry if I sound fed up, but I am, its people who cry nerf that ruin the game for the rest of us.

[Krzy]

yeah God forbid those of us who didn't TWINK our characters when the NCU/Implant exploit was around actually complain because FC didn't handle it correctly.

And I never said Don't come in outside buffed.


Oh and james? a 60 pt damage shield is *not* a lower level buff I'm sorry to say.

[Snuble]

I can hardly imagine its the exploited twinks that they are talking about.

Tried using agility implants lately Dreamr? Its all about NCU, and you dont have to exploit to get a 5 slot belt and some very nice NCU in.

You don't have to expoit to twink. Its not something that only a select few can do either. True, it costs credits, but so do a Yalm, and most manage to get hold of one sometimes.

I know FC will try to "fix" this. I also know that the fix WILL break something, and most likely not work as intended...

PvP level reqs in a skill based game is bad anyway. It just don't work O_o

[_______________Cr89o]

Helsinki / Chlamydia, if anyone here is complaining about twinks in pvp, they should just learn to play the game and walk away from this thread. But having the highest HoT has absolutetly nothing to do with "strategy", "money", or "planning", Its stupid and pointless and shouldnt be happening in the first place.

Apparently, to your logic, all you need to do to compete with the others is have more ncu to twink your char. Ok, so one omni and one clan all get buffed with essence, dmg shield, reflect, hot, and he.. And then just sit there, neither one being able to kill each other. Is this what you think FC wanted to happen with NW? No.

The HoTs have a lvl req on them for a reason, not so you can feel invincible against someone that cant outdmg a 300+ heal. They obviously werent meant to be casted on such low levels and I sure hope Funcom can fix their mistake soon enough.

[newarival]

I agree i have a little lvl 24 doc and hot's are pretty nasty.

I think that there should be lvl restrictoins on the hots perhaps the same lvl that is listed on them maybe alittle bit lower lvl though not much.
I believe this would help the lower lvl game allot.

MC mochams on NT's may be another fish to fry but hey 1 problem at a time right.

[__________BrutalThug]

Originally posted by Dreamr
yeah God forbid those of us who didn't TWINK our characters when the NCU/Implant exploit was around actually complain because FC didn't handle it correctly.

And I never said Don't come in outside buffed.


Oh and james? a 60 pt damage shield is *not* a lower level buff I'm sorry to say.

Noone from NF used the ncu or treatment stacking for our twinks. Maybe you just suck at twinking ?

[__________BrutalThug]

Originally posted by Cr89o


The HoTs have a lvl req on them for a reason, not so you can feel invincible against someone that cant outdmg a 300+ heal. They obviously werent meant to be casted on such low levels and I sure hope Funcom can fix their mistake soon enough.

Yes. Those hots are extremely powerful and should be fixed, but until then :/ *shrug* Noone equips a lower ql gun than they can use, so the HOT's is going to be used until fixed.

It's obviously a bug since NCU works.

now fix the HOT's (and other lvl req nano's) and the low ql turret damage, and we may get more balanced fights. which for all is the most fun !

[Jamespond]

Originally posted by newarival
I agree i have a little lvl 24 doc and hot's are pretty nasty.

I think that there should be lvl restrictoins on the hots perhaps the same lvl that is listed on them maybe alittle bit lower lvl though not much.
I believe this would help the lower lvl game allot.

MC mochams on NT's may be another fish to fry but hey 1 problem at a time right.

U got owned and asks for nerf... Anyways its far from impossible to kill someone with HoT running... Like u guys didnt use them when u attacked us all night long...

I really dont hope u guys get to ruin the game with all the nerfs... U think we cant handle it without HoT?

Okay u nerf HoTs... We create 2 twink docs... u will get owned more next time... Then u nerf something else we had on us.. and again and again... only to realise we own u more and more and more....

If they really have to nerf something its the lvl 200s as newarival who hugs the border at a lvl 20 camp, because he is affraid of getting owned...

And if ur doc is who I think it is, then u had the best HE running... nerfs hits u too

Facts for Dreamr... All our chars from lvl 20-30 were made after we lost our base the first time, and the clanners dared us to come back... so u cant say we used these things...

Who is worst? Someone who calls us exploiters, dishonorable players, who only attack when guilds are offline, and then cry for nerfs, and say we dont have any lives...(Not directed on Dreamr)
OR
A player who have played this game for a long time, and know how to twink a llittle and PvP...

Some more facts...

We attack from 16-23 GMT, and dont play 24/7 We dont have enough players to launch an attack outside the prime time of our guild, since we are all nordic... If ur guild is offline while ur controller is 25%, then its just bad timing from ur side, and we dont check on ur guild is offline before we attack... Infact most of my guildies, cries when noone comes to defend...

Your guild only have 5-10 chars in it? So? Its not our fault u cant defend it... Merge with other guilds, if u want to be able to defend u...

Your guild have 200+ chars? Good for u, it wont stop us from attacking u... But atleast u should be able to defend then...

This is a war live with it...

Sadam Hussein: Look Bush u just cant use advanced technology to attack us, its unfair, we dont have that...

George Bush: So what are u saying?

Sadam Hussein: If u attack us u may only use swords, and no planes at all, and u shouldnt use them ass spies too... because they got too high evades for us to hit them...

George Bush: hmmmm... Well okay ill cut down on the planes.. But we will still use some...

1 week later....

Sadam Hussein: George!!! Its unfair... u got more men than I do, u outnumber us 5 to 1... We dont have a chance this way...

Geoge Bush: U know we are gonna win useing 5 to 1 , or 1 on 1... 5 on 1 just makes u loose faster, and will cause u less pain.. But all right ill call back some troops...

2 weeks later...

Sadam Hussein: DAMNIT GEORGE! ITS SO ****ING UNFAIR, U GUYS LIVE IN ANOTHER TIME ZONE, AND U ATTACK US WHEN WE ARE SLEEPING!!!

George Bush: Damnit Hussein im tired of these nerf callings, u allways call, when im sleeping or ****ing my wife...

George pushes the button, and launches the A-bombs(Anti whining bombs)

Iraq is no more..

Man I wish the whiners also would loose on RK, but they dont...

[Silirrion]

Jamespond,

I didn't really want to reply to this thread again as it deviated from my point into specific name calling.

My point (and I believe it is still valid) is not that your org used these tactics - they are currently legal - My issue is that the game mechanics need changing in PvP so you cannot use these buffs as they imbalance lower level PvP and disadvantage lower level orgs.

We have enough members to defend if need be, but we do not have access to loads fo high level characters to buff us all the time.

The whole point is that NW was supposed to make PvP open to all players at the moment that is not the case as orgs like your can dominate with the current game mechanics.

I have no problem with you having better twinks then us, or being better organised. If, as you said, you rerolled two docs and then we got owned that is fine, we would recruit some docs, or get enough players to kill the docs first, that can be done.

I have absolutely no issue with being owned by a better prepared org using characters that aren't running these buffs but are twinked as much as possible for PvP. Even the best twink still stands a chance of being beaten by organised defenders.

The differnece is that with high level HoTs running we cannot possibly kill those players using them, unless we outnumber them five or six to one.

Of course high level players buff, but they get buffs relevant to their level, not a 60 point damage shield at level 30 (and yes several of your members and those of Kramme Holsdet had these shields on in the first attack) or a 350 point HoT. If lower level players were restricted (in PvP areas only so as not to damage PvE) in what buffs they could wear it would be much better fun.

The first weekend of NW we spent eight hours playing some great PvP against -=Alliance=- and other omni guilds, no one used these tactics, we lost towers, they lost towers, we died a lot, they died a lot, but it was fun because no one side was overpowered.

Overbuffing ruins the balance, no doubt about that.

Of course you defend it, you can do it much easier then us

Comparing it to real life situations is also very misguided, all it serves to demonstrate is that you are recognising it is a devious tactic, of course it is to be expected, we all know that, that isn't the point of this thread.

I recognise that you are free to do this, many people are doing this, but my point all along has been that it makes a mockery of Funcom's claim that NW would open up PvP to casual players and low levels players - it only does so at the moment if you high level alts or friends.

So in closing, I have nothing against your org or any other for doing this, but you can't hold it against our members if they are frustrated by your tactics when they have no recourse against the tactics used. Saying 'but you can play us at our own game' or 'build a bigger guild, or get help' is a cop-out and admiting that you know these tactics are underhand. Why should we have to? The game is supposed to support us PvPing as we are. We had more then enough players on-line to defend against the numbers attacking us, for most of the combat there were even numbers of clan and omni, just that you were uber buffed, we even outnumbered you on several occasions,but still died

The current situation distances casual players and those without alts from PvP and that's bad for the reputation of the game.

Wanna PvP at low levels? Only if you have high level help

That just doesn't sit right with me...

[Jamespond]

Sillirrion I know ur intensions, and u didnt do the name calling, and I respect u for that... But Dreamr and a few others did, and they even said we exploited... THAT I can not tolerate, because Nordic Fusions policy is, that u get kicked from org, even if u just talk about doing an exploits, its NOT accepted at ALL in our org, and if someone have proof that one from my org did exploit, then this person should give me the facts, call a GM, and dont ***** about Nordic Fusion being exploiters, because maybe one person did do it... If someone from our org did exploit he does NOT represent our guild anymore, and would be kicked, and never talked to again, and hopefully banned...

Dreamr and others just managed to stamp our guild as exploiters... I want the right to defend that...

All the name callings is very respectless, and someone puts in alot of untrue things... So maybe one in our guild used a damage shield.. That doesnt mean everyone else did... we had a enforcer to buff us with essence and a fixer to buff us with a HoT yeah I admit that... As for the HoT it healed for 230-240 it was not the top of the line...

So ur org didnt use this tactic... well alot of others do, and we have to be prepared for the worst, because we have dealt with the same thing on attacks on our base too... So we go in war all buffed up, because we know what we can expect... I wont do 10 hours of research to attack another org towers, just to see if they have 10 active players or 100, or they have lvl 150+ mains, in other orgs to buff them, or study their behavior, to fiind out what this guild is all about, and if they are online or offline...
We just prepare for the worst case scenario, and I do apologise that smaller orgs sometimes gets totally steamrolled...

[Silirrion]

Understood Jamespond, you have every right to defend your org, and for what it's worth I believe you. I don't think any exploiting was done. Not in the definition of breaking any game rules.

On the other hand I hope you understand why what happened provokes the reactions that it does, I also totally understand Dreamr's frustration with the situation. Thank you for the apology for smaller guilds getting steamrollered, I guess that our guild falls into that category, and thats the point I am making, which I guess you now understand.

Small guilds should at least have a sporting chance of a noble defeat at the very least. There is no shame in being beaten by better equipped, more experienced players, however getting ganked by players with uber buffs running is quite another thing. That's what frustrates players who don't have the same access.

[Snuble]

The whole point is that NW was supposed to make PvP open

O_o Thats where your wrong. It does not say so on my box. Anything on yours?

AO is a skill based game, and from day 1 a lvl 10 toon is not the same as a lvl 10 toon and its one of the strenghts in the game. If a lvl 10 toon of any profession would have relative equal strength, how would that affect the game? There is nothing that stops you from getting the same thing that make a lvl 50 twink possible. There is nothing that stops you from leveling up or getting credits for implants or NCU.

Removing HoTs would not change anything at all. The balance between a noob and a twink would still be all the way to the twinks favour.

Remove the essence and you would have a living nightmare equiping armour, implants and weapons. Is that where you want?

[Snuble]

So in closing, I have nothing against your org or any other for doing this, but you can't hold it against our members if they are frustrated by your tactics when they have no recourse against the tactics used. Saying 'but you can play us at our own game' or 'build a bigger guild, or get help' is a cop-out and admiting that you know these tactics are underhand. Why should we have to? The game is supposed to support us PvPing as we are. We had more then enough players on-line to defend against the numbers attacking us, for most of the combat there were even numbers of clan and omni, just that you were uber buffed, we even outnumbered you on several occasions,but still died

So blame the game and the other player because you lost, instead of trying to equal that gap? Again, there is *nothing* that stops you from gaining the same advantages, there is no eploits that need to be used.

The real problem is simple, there is no objective way to express the diffrence between a noob and a twink in a logic environment that a computing system is

[Snuble]

On the other hand I hope you understand why what happened provokes the reactions that it does, I also totally understand Dreamr's frustration with the situation. Thank you for the apology for smaller guilds getting steamrollered, I guess that our guild falls into that category, and thats the point I am making, which I guess you now understand.

But thats a problem with size, time played and organization, NOT a fixers HoT.

[Dudicas]

Hey betatesters, can we say we told them so yet?

We ALL knew it would come to this eventually. We tried to tell them they were just pushing it here faster when they put level restrictions on buffing and healing in the LC areas. Punishing the defenders by not letting them buff inside their bases while allowing the attackers all the time in the world to organise and get buffed by their level 200 mains.

[Blackwing]

Originally posted by Snublefot


But thats a problem with size, time played and organization, NOT a fixers HoT.

that is exactly it.

no medium to small org is able to contribute to the nw if the bully guilds want to play rough.

the problem is not twinking out the chars it is getting the god damn buffs.

having a couple of 150 and up chars of multiple professions around at your beck and call to buff your hit team (man no small org will even HAVE that, they will bring whoever is just in the level range and online) is just not true unless you talk a guild of 400+ members because of alts, time zones, people taking breaks and all that.

abandoning morals because nothing explicitly prevents or forbids doing this will result in less people participating thats all.

less fun for all is something which makes people angry *shrug*.

[Blackwing]

Originally posted by Snublefot


O_o Thats where your wrong. It does not say so on my box. Anything on yours?

AO is a skill based game, and from day 1 a lvl 10 toon is not the same as a lvl 10 toon and its one of the strenghts in the game. If a lvl 10 toon of any profession would have relative equal strength, how would that affect the game? There is nothing that stops you from getting the same thing that make a lvl 50 twink possible. There is nothing that stops you from leveling up or getting credits for implants or NCU.

Removing HoTs would not change anything at all. The balance between a noob and a twink would still be all the way to the twinks favour.

Remove the essence and you would have a living nightmare equiping armour, implants and weapons. Is that where you want?

i guess you now know why i absolutely despise ao pvp.

it is broken period.

nobody is talking pvm balance or buffs. the complaint is that if you want active pvp you can either use a true no holds barred anything goes tactic like for instance ac and eq use: once you are pvp ANY other pvper can kill you.

or you try to severlay limit it so that everybody has a somewhat fair chance so that it boils down to tactics, luck and profession.

ao tried a middle ground which absolutely failed so my opinion was, is and will always be that they should abandon the pvp focus right NOW so that the twinks can continue to pvp for titles and lands and the players who want to play a game have something to play instead of broken shores missions.

[Silirrion]

Snublefot,

You are kind of missing my point, I agree twinks will always have an advantage and I am 100% fine with that, but that's not what is happening.

I can twink too, what I can't do is get all the members of my guild high level buffs whenever we are attacked. The buffs provide an unfair example. My alts aren't uber twinks but they are decent (For example my Level 30 enf has QL80 weapons and over 1.2k acs and 2k HPs self buffed - not the best, but no slouch) but when playing against those with with buffs they were healing 300+ HP a tick with the HoTs - that is plain unblanacing.

I also stated clearly that I am only calling for PvP changes - buffs in PvE are fine.

People seem to think this is whining because we lost an individual encounter, and as I stated in my originla post it is not about that, as I have stated many times in this thread I am quite happy to be beaten by a twink.

However I have stated the current situation clearly enough. It just doesn't make for fun PvP at lower levels.

Those doing this know this, as Jamespond already admitted in this thread, because they have no choice as the uber guilds on the other side do the same thing. This will not change until the game mechanics are changed.

[___________Chlamydia]

Originally posted by Snublefot
AO is a skill based game, and from day 1 a lvl 10 toon is not the same as a lvl 10 toon and its one of the strenghts in the game. If a lvl 10 toon of any profession would have relative equal strength, how would that affect the game? There is nothing that stops you from getting the same thing that make a lvl 50 twink possible. There is nothing that stops you from leveling up or getting credits for implants or NCU.

Removing HoTs would not change anything at all. The balance between a noob and a twink would still be all the way to the twinks favour.

I could not think of a better way to say this. very well put Snublefot.

And Jamespond, that George / Sadam thing had me in stitches

[Blackwing]

an upcoming war that will be waged for the purely economic reasons of one country to fighting in ao then i do not know what to say.

then this thread should be moved to the of topic social board and left to die there before it is continued.

moral is how you behave when nobody is watching.