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Thread: Elite Operations takes the heat

  1. #41
    Faction:
    1. A group of persons forming a cohesive, usually contentious minority within a larger group.

    2. A party, in political society, combined or acting in union, in opposition to the government, or state; -- usually applied to a minority, but it may be applied to a majority; a combination or clique of partisans of any kind, acting for their own interests, especially if greedy, clamorous, and reckless of the common good.
    ((The two definitions fitting of the word faction in our current frame of mind...))

    You choose to be a neutral and wish to remain out of the conflict, and honestly I had the same hopes as well. However events have lead us to a state where we are being persecuted by a group of people. So we can either be true pacifist and take the punches, the abuse, sit unresponding while we are forced into choosing a side, or we can make our aggressor take their fight back where it belongs.

    I fight for my right to remain a neutral, I don't expect everyone to pick up a weapon and join that fight... but you should realise that the efforts we are making really are to work for peace and put us back into a position of being neutral again.

    (( While the definition seems not to work it does fit what Neutrals are... in both definitions...

    If we were truly unaffiliated and fell under one banner the title 'Neutral' then we wouldn't have Orgs., wouldn't be allowed into PvP or use of Towers... these are thing a faction would recieve... Neutrals are to be side-line sitters, observers taking no action in either side of the conflict. However with these abilities we have choices as Neutrals: be faction bias supporting either Omni or Clan or try to support ourselves as our own seperate group of people... becuase we have these choices and options while remaining 'Neutrals' this makes us a faction, a thrid party, a thrid group of people... the word for us may be 'Neutrals' but that by no means applies to the definition to our ability to defend ourselves, but simply our feelings to the Omni/Clan war.

    I don't choose to support either side in their conflict, I want us to be a free group of people. I also wouldn't mind if FC nerfed our faction abilities and made us the real 'neutrals' we were meant to be.))
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  2. #42
    OOC:
    (( Alright for everyone that doesn't read patch notes:

    - Neutrals have hired mercenaries loosely affiliated with Omni-Tek to protect Newland City from the Clans.
    I would like to take a moment to say something on this.

    When we were approached by Ris Lee with this offer, we were told the Mercenaries were a Neutral group. We did not PAY for any OMNI guards to be in Newland, but Neutral ones.

    I myself am not happy with the merc being Omni tagged either, as again this was not what was offered to EO at all. I must say it looks like we sorta got the shaft by FC on what they consider 'neutral'...

    I don't know what to do about it, however you can bet we have contacted FC to get some answers.

    Elite Operations in no way directly supports Omni-Tek or the Clans or either of their agendas in their conflict. We enjoy our status as neutral citizens of Rubi-ka. ))
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  3. #43
    Originally posted by Viray


    You choose to be a neutral and wish to remain out of the conflict, and honestly I had the same hopes as well. However events have lead us to a state where we are being persecuted by a group of people. So we can either be true pacifist and take the punches, the abuse, sit unresponding while we are forced into choosing a side, or we can make our aggressor take their fight back where it belongs.
    Feel free to do whatever you wish. You want to kill every Clanner you come across? Your choice. You want to throw down your weapons and be a punching bag? Your choice. You are neutral, you can do what you wish. It has nothing to do with me, therefore I am indifferent to it. However, once you start calling neutrals a faction, that HAS something to do with me, because I am neutral. You say neutrals are a side, that involves me as well, but I am on no side. I am neutral, but not in a faction. Don't include me in this.
    Last edited by Slicse; Feb 6th, 2003 at 19:24:30.

  4. #44
    ((I'm afraid I'm having a hard time...no, impossible mostly...understanding how you can hire killers to indescrimanately and selectively kill ONLY Clanners without provocation YET still call yourselves 'neutral'. From an RP perspective you all should be hunted down as you are plain and simply complicant in mass murder. But then I'm prone to try and find some way, if that way actually exists, of removing the Sentinels from Tir to see IF you can really then effect a removal of your killers from NLC. I'm kind of at a quandary here...looking for some direction that makes sense.))

    Originally posted by Viray
    OOC:
    (( Alright for everyone that doesn't read patch notes:



    I would like to take a moment to say something on this.

    When we were approached by Ris Lee with this offer, we were told the Mercenaries were a Neutral group. We did not PAY for any OMNI guards to be in Newland, but Neutral ones.

    I myself am not happy with the merc being Omni tagged either, as again this was not what was offered to EO at all. I must say it looks like we sorta got the shaft by FC on what they consider 'neutral'...

    I don't know what to do about it, however you can bet we have contacted FC to get some answers.

    Elite Operations in no way directly supports Omni-Tek or the Clans or either of their agendas in their conflict. We enjoy our status as neutral citizens of Rubi-ka. ))

  5. #45
    ((You and I both are stuck Nel.))

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  6. #46
    I don't shoot Clanners, I shoot Clanners I know that have attacked me. I can do this cause I remember those that have sent me to reclaim defending my land, or another Neutral tower.

    You are welcome to have no part in this, however as a neutral you are on a side it just doesn't happen to be Omni or Clan. You can refuse to believe this, but that really won't change the fact that when a Clanner looks at you he will see you as a Neutral and make his decision whether to lay waste to you or pass you by based on that, maybe your Org. name might get the clanner to have a second though, but as of late it seems not to help too much... we have asked that all Clan aggression be placed on ourselves however already it has been misplaced on other Neutral Orgs.
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  7. #47
    Originally posted by Viray
    I don't shoot Clanners, I shoot Clanners I know that have attacked me. I can do this cause I remember those that have sent me to reclaim defending my land, or another Neutral tower.

    You are welcome to have no part in this, however as a neutral you are on a side it just doesn't happen to be Omni or Clan. You can refuse to believe this, but that really won't change the fact that when a Clanner looks at you he will see you as a Neutral and make his decision whether to lay waste to you or pass you by based on that, maybe your Org. name might get the clanner to have a second though, but as of late it seems not to help too much... we have asked that all Clan aggression be placed on ourselves however already it has been misplaced on other Neutral Orgs.
    And your Guild has brought this upon the Neutrals with your lack of foresight. And once again, the Neutrals are not a faction. They do NOT fight for one cause. And many of them dislike what YOU have done to them. I do not attack those that do not support the Mercs.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  8. #48
    (( If you look at the reason those guards were hired, and why they in an RP way can't selectively ID specific clanners (really due of course to game mechanics) then maybe you won't be so pressed to find a way around it.

    Meaning the guards are blind to Name tags, they just see target / non-target cause of the game mechanics...

    I can say that some EO/EA were present in NLC and tried to heal/help those Clanners present that held no aggression towards us and other neutrals, nor had previously attacked us.

    Trust me if the deal was to give the guards a list and have just that list ejected from NLC... we would have done it, but it was a one way offer in one form, non-negoitable.

    Have to admit it certainly has made life interesting ))
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  9. #49
    And your Guild has brought this upon the Neutrals with your lack of foresight. And once again, the Neutrals are not a faction. They do NOT fight for one cause. And many of them dislike what YOU have done to them. I do not attack those that do not support the Mercs.
    While this may be true for you FixerBen I am afraid most of your faction brethren will not see it that way.

    Which is the whole source of the probelm in the first place.
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  10. #50
    Originally posted by Viray
    You are welcome to have no part in this, however as a neutral you are on a side it just doesn't happen to be Omni or Clan. You can refuse to believe this, but that really won't change the fact that when a Clanner looks at you he will see you as a Neutral and make his decision whether to lay waste to you or pass you by based on that, maybe your Org. name might get the clanner to have a second though, but as of late it seems not to help too much... we have asked that all Clan aggression be placed on ourselves however already it has been misplaced on other Neutral Orgs.
    No, I am not on a side. Just because I am not involved with omni/clan and you are not involved with omni/clan, does not make you and I on a specific side. Ill go back to the football game analogy. There's an arena, you've got two teams competing on the field. You're telling me you think that everyone in the arena that isn't on one of those two teams, are all on a third team? Just because I'm a fan and not on a team and you're a fan and not on a team that we're together? We're a side? It's absurd.

  11. #51
    Excuse me? You HIRE killers than shoot ALL Clanners so do not try and claim you only shoot Clanners that you know have attacked you.

    I have never attacked you yet YOUR lackies shot me dead numerous times. That IS YOU doing that to me...even if indirectly YOU are responsible for them pulling the trigger because YOU told them to stand there and kill any Clanner than walked by.

    Simply Viray YOU are as guilty of shooting Clanners that have not attacked you as the killers you hired to do it are. I'm stunned that such a simple fact escapes you.

    Originally posted by Viray
    I don't shoot Clanners, I shoot Clanners I know that have attacked me. I can do this cause I remember those that have sent me to reclaim defending my land, or another Neutral tower.

    You are welcome to have no part in this, however as a neutral you are on a side it just doesn't happen to be Omni or Clan. You can refuse to believe this, but that really won't change the fact that when a Clanner looks at you he will see you as a Neutral and make his decision whether to lay waste to you or pass you by based on that, maybe your Org. name might get the clanner to have a second though, but as of late it seems not to help too much... we have asked that all Clan aggression be placed on ourselves however already it has been misplaced on other Neutral Orgs.

  12. #52
    Originally posted by Viray


    While this may be true for you FixerBen I am afraid most of your faction brethren will not see it that way.

    Which is the whole source of the probelm in the first place.
    I know it does not hold true for all of my Clan brethren if you could call them that. There are many Clan guilds that I dont agree with their ethic, and that dont agree with my peace efforts.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  13. #53
    Originally posted by Viray
    (( If you look at the reason those guards were hired, and why they in an RP way can't selectively ID specific clanners (really due of course to game mechanics) then maybe you won't be so pressed to find a way around it.

    Meaning the guards are blind to Name tags, they just see target / non-target cause of the game mechanics...

    I can say that some EO/EA were present in NLC and tried to heal/help those Clanners present that held no aggression towards us and other neutrals, nor had previously attacked us.

    Trust me if the deal was to give the guards a list and have just that list ejected from NLC... we would have done it, but it was a one way offer in one form, non-negoitable.

    Have to admit it certainly has made life interesting ))
    ((Thats funny, all night there were members of EO training Loren Warr on my team. I even called an ARK, but he ran off before we could prove he was doing it.))

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  14. #54
    Viray I am growing tired or your attacks on the soverignty of neutral organizations. The Nanomage Liberation Front has no masters but ourselves. This is why we are neutral, we cannot ideologically be subserviant to any cause but what we know to be right and true. Your constant insistance that we fall under some Hegemony of Elite Operations is an insult, and I know Sumokan does not agree with that either. I have talked to Sumokan about the guards and we have agreed to disagree about EO's hiring them. I know your leader understands, although he is disapointed, why we do not support the guards. Please Viray understand why other neutral guilds do not support this. And please stop insisting we are a side, by doing this you are rejecting our right to choose our own destiny, our freedom, and the simple fact that we are not a side!

    Why do you think every attempt to create a neutral government has failed. Because each neutral guild is so different that no over arching ideaology, policy, or government suits us all.
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  15. #55
    No, I am not on a side. Just because I am not involved with omni/clan and you are not involved with omni/clan, does not make you and I on a specific side. Ill go back to the football game analogy. There's an arena, you've got two teams competing on the field. You're telling me you think that everyone in the arena that isn't on one of those two teams, are all on a third team? Just because I'm a fan and not on a team and you're a fan and not on a team that we're together? We're a side? It's absurd.
    (( I can work with that analogy, cause thats my point if we were meant to be the 'fans' we wouldn't have any influence over the 'game'. However we have been taken out of the stands and given the equipment to play in the game.

    We have been turned into a competitor, maybe its not the competitor currently on the field but one that may take the field at any given time... ))
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  16. #56
    I do not mind the goals of other Neutral Orgs, I do not state EO is some sorta defacto leader for all neutrals every where.

    I am simply saying that neutrals as a whole are a group of people, not even the Clans seem to share the same goal, who says that is what makes a faction...

    I am aware of how you feel about the guards and understand why you do not support them, and I wouldn't dream of forcing you to try and accept them. That is by far not what EO was trying to accomplish here.
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  17. #57
    Originally posted by Viray
    (( I can work with that analogy, cause thats my point if we were meant to be the 'fans' we wouldn't have any influence over the 'game'. However we have been taken out of the stands and given the equipment to play in the game.

    We have been turned into a competitor, maybe its not the competitor currently on the field but one that may take the field at any given time... ))
    ((I don't see it as "taken out of the stands," but just given more freedom, which i think we're entitled to.

    Again, you are free to make your own team now, but don't speak as if every other fan is on your team. Other fans are free to make their own teams as well.))

  18. #58
    Seems to me this should be treated an internal Neutral issue. There is a difference of opinion among Neutrals whether their city, Newland, should be open to Clan visitors or not. This has come in the light of the new.. erm travel restriction imposed by the Clan faction currently in charge of Tir which prevents Neutrals from visiting the Clan city (not that a Neutral could ever shop or use public services in Tir even then) .

    Some Neutrals are in favour of this measure, some against it. The point is, it is for the Neutrals how to run their own city. Clan politicians and activists should have the courtesy of respecting Neutral sovereignty and their right to determine who can and cannot visit their town. Clearly many of us hope that the moderate Neutrals win the argument and Newland may become again an city open to all, but it should be their decision.

    If any clansman has a genuine needs to visit Newland at this point in time, I am sure Neutral factions can arrange temporary visas and beam the individual in.

    But do not forget, access to Newland is a privilege granted by it's citizens, not a right.
    Last edited by Savoy; Feb 6th, 2003 at 20:26:31.
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  19. #59
    The one thing I don't understand is why the majority of Clanners are upset over this, at least from a strategic point of view. I know there are a number of Clanners who want peace and obviously this creates a problem for them; that point has been made very clear (over and over again). But Newland City, aside from having a link to Newland Desert (Ew!) doesn't appear to offer anything to the Clans. Borealis is still open and isn't a problem since a Grid point was added for that town (which I think is a much more beautiful city) and from there, Stret West Bank is just on the other side of the whompa.

    Personally, the only reason I go to Newland City is to use a particular mission terminal that I like so I can find missions in Home, but from what I have heard, Clanners use a different terminal in another town to get the same results that I do. I even recall someone once saying that Newland City is usually filled with just Omnis and Neutrals with few Clanners wandering in (I've never bothered to take a census, so that might be wrong since it's just something I overheard someone say once).

    So, what is all the fuss about? Outside of those who want planetwide peace, most of this seems to be about pride or jealousy or something. Somebody please explain it to me.
    Janella "Nevver" McCallagher
    Board Member of
    Devil's Advocate
    .·´¯`·..·»
    Why settle for less when you can oppress?

    "First get your facts; then you can distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain
    "Nevver: Like the thing that hides in your closet. But worse." - Gueve


    Also known as...
    Jacquelynn "Kaitakait" Moscardelli
    Sun "
    Jamais" Soleil
    Sari "
    Nixis" Wagner

  20. #60
    ((I don't see it as "taken out of the stands," but just given more freedom, which i think we're entitled to.

    Again, you are free to make your own team now, but don't speak as if every other fan is on your team. Other fans are free to make their own teams as well.))
    (( I see that even with your own analogy you lose sight of what I am trying to get across, or refuse to see it for just a moment.

    I respect you wishes to distance yourself from all conflict, it is your right. ))
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

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