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Thread: Neutrals declare war on Clans - for what reason?

  1. #81
    And the clans are worse than Marlamin? Marlamin is as bad as bloody Fisk! He hates neutrals for the same reason Fisk does! He basically just called neutrals fence sitters!

    And it makes sense that a thug would admire a thug.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  2. #82
    I don't recall anyone on this thread, or the others, saying anything like what you have in quotes below. I have seen a few of us point out that this change in NLC will further inflame tensions but then you have to be daft not to see that it will. From my perspective it seems like a lot of people on BOTH sides actually WANT things to escalate...I call you both war mongers.

    Who exactly is the "you" that you keep claiming is speaking for the Clans? The Clanners on this thread have been claiminig we want and have been working for peace. Quite trying to ram this imaginary clanner called "you" down our throats to imagine that we are speaking with this voice. If this is what you're hearing I strongly recommend a good ENT physician.

    At least there are SOME of us that either kill or calm Tir Sentinels so they can not (temporarily) accost Neutral travelers...or Omni for that matter. My question to you Nocreon is this; will YOU do the same in NLC?

    Originally posted by Nocreon
    Just imagine neutrals would be equal in numbers and strength to clan...

    Nobody would ever come up with all those pointless arguments I read here everywhere now.

    You would have realized that the roots for the problem are not "agressive neutral guilds align with omni to kill clan".
    You maybe would see that neutrals are very upset with the situation in Tir and have trouble with some clan guilds. And I bet you would have seen it as a call to wake you up and do something about it, but you just see it as a "call to arms".

    You see that somebody does something you don't like, or some things change in a way that harms you and what do you do?

    You just say things like "We never wanted that but sorry, we have to take out all your bases now. We loved neutrals til now but we cannot accept what is happening, we will take em all down now."

    For me it seems like many people just waited for something like that. Now you have your reason to take out all grey spots from the map that have been a thorn in your eye from the beginning.
    Now you think its legal to take this as a reason to take the spots you ever wanted because you always had the secret thought that neutrals were never supposed to own any land because they are too weak and too small to earn rights for that.

    It seems like any discussion is useless now. Just feel free to attack neutral bases because we cannot hold them anymore when you continue to raise all clan against us.
    You know we have no chance and now the things that will happen in Newland are a free ticket for all who didn't like our bases out there anyway.

    At the end I have one question: Where is the connection between notum mining and guards at Newland City shooting clan members? What would you win if you kill neutrals far from NLC? How could you solve this problem that way?
    That will make it even worse. And once again I have to remind you that the Sentinels make no difference who is entering Tir - they kill all neutrals...

  3. #83
    Originally posted by Nelida
    I don't recall anyone on this thread, or the others, saying anything like what you have in quotes below. I have seen a few of us point out that this change in NLC will further inflame tensions but then you have to be daft not to see that it will. From my perspective it seems like a lot of people on BOTH sides actually WANT things to escalate...I call you both war mongers.

    Who exactly is the "you" that you keep claiming is speaking for the Clans? The Clanners on this thread have been claiminig we want and have been working for peace. Quite trying to ram this imaginary clanner called "you" down our throats to imagine that we are speaking with this voice. If this is what you're hearing I strongly recommend a good ENT physician.

    At least there are SOME of us that either kill or calm Tir Sentinels so they can not (temporarily) accost Neutral travelers...or Omni for that matter. My question to you Nocreon is this; will YOU do the same in NLC?

    I was too tired defended us peaceful clanners to ignorant neutrals to respond to Nocreon. I'm glad you did. I doubt Nocreon will kill Newland guards for clanners, but there are intelligent neutrals that I respect that I am sure will. Now, I warn all peaceful clanners that defend neutral rights who are at their wits end defending themselves to ignorant prejudiced neutrals not to look at the "Basis of Neutral Power" thread as it is one disgusting piece of anti-Clan propaganda that is riddled with lies.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  4. #84
    OOC
    This leeds us back to our old old argument Bio; why can't the players be given the tools to decide their own destiny?

    The fighting is forced on us by FC mechanics. Clanners have no control of Sentinels anymore than Neutrals over the new NLC 'guards'. Why can we not be given a blank play field to either live in peace and prosperity or revert to barbarism and anarchy? Why do we have to be led by the nose down FCs narrow little 'story line' path?

    Truely all of the arguements here are pointless...we should give up and play the way FC wants us to. Clanners should, by FC gentle 'nudging', turn against Neutrals and force Neutrals to choose sides...afterall that IS what FC is attempting to do. Neutrals should give up the fence sitting and use an Omni or Clan app after a few levels out of character creation...that IS what FC wants...so why are we all here defying them?

    Originally posted by Bionitrous
    OOC- I tell you what's missing in the grand political scheme of things: some way to have a good old-fashioned guild war without:

    a.) Having every jackass guild in the game meddling

    b.) Having to tick off every member of whatever faction the org you have a quarrel with belongs to

    Omni vs Clan vs Neutral just doesnt' work when we have pacifists, role-players, power gamers, war mongers all in each of the three faction choices.

  5. #85
    Originally posted by Nelida
    OOC
    This leeds us back to our old old argument Bio; why can't the players be given the tools to decide their own destiny?

    The fighting is forced on us by FC mechanics. Clanners have no control of Sentinels anymore than Neutrals over the new NLC 'guards'. Why can we not be given a blank play field to either live in peace and prosperity or revert to barbarism and anarchy? Why do we have to be led by the nose down FCs narrow little 'story line' path?

    Truely all of the arguements here are pointless...we should give up and play the way FC wants us to. Clanners should, by FC gentle 'nudging', turn against Neutrals and force Neutrals to choose sides...afterall that IS what FC is attempting to do. Neutrals should give up the fence sitting and use an Omni or Clan app after a few levels out of character creation...that IS what FC wants...so why are we all here defying them?

    Because I am the customer. Because WE are the customer. WE should not have to cater to the company that is supposed to be catering to us. That is how it is supposed to work. I know thats not whats been happening, but its what needs to happen. I refuse to go along with FC's storyline. They advertise a player influenced world and I refuse to go along with them completely ignoring player feelings.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  6. #86
    OOC-

    Clanners have no control of Sentinels anymore than Neutrals over the new NLC 'guards'
    That I disagree with.

    Or, strike that.

    Maybe some people don't get it. Before the last 2 or 3 patches on Test Server, Ris Lee contacted an actual person in-game. A dialogue went on for days leading into weeks. A price was determined. Money was raised in-game. Ris decided he wanted more backing from the Neutrals. A meeting was held. 3 Neutral orgs backed the idea, 2 or 3 reserved judgement, 1 or 2 were against.

    Healing Hands wasn't there. Neither was Omega or Desert Winds. We all know they would have opposed it.

    My point being that until the invisible ARK witnessed the meeting in Newland BY3, this thing didn't and wouldn't go down. On my honor, I say and I honestly believe that if we didn't raise the 100 million credits in 3 days and get at least a consensus of 'like minded organizations' as Mr. Lee put it. That the Thugs would not have appeared in Newland 10 days or so later.

    No, we couldn't 'drive' the Story. But we were given the choice to choose a path. Honestly, to be 100% out of character, most of us figured that something different in NLC was worth sticking our necks out on the line. Basically falling down on our swords for the sake of the other players. We all expected reprisals from the 'gamers' but wanted to 'give' a little ****e to both our own friends and cohorts and the Story and RP'ers in general.

    Just make a mental note of this post. I'm telling you now, based on how I've seen FunCom react to in-game politics, that if you want the Sentinels out of Tir, you can do it. You're all on the right path here. You just have to realize it will take at least one patch cycle for them to work it into the plot and effect the changes. If you don't have enough support from your fellow Clan players, it won't happen. But, it is possible. I know it is.

    You got the moat in Tir cleared up.
    The CoT no longer represents you.
    Mercenaries are in NLC.

    While you as players may not be able to dictate if/when Omni-Tek makes a military strike or technical discovery, you can surely rid Tir of the Sentinels if that truly is the sentiment of the majority. There is no reason he can't conduct his business in Sentinel headquarters. And if FunCom wants to strike with Omni-Tek, they can level his headquarters if Silverstone is the target or simply carpet bomb Tir and whoever is running the city at the time.

  7. #87
    Perhaps everything you say is true, but did they contact anyone on RK2? I'm fairly sure they pay to paly the game as well and their politics were completely different from the ones on RK1.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  8. #88
    Yes, it's apparent that RK2 is doomed to be the second-class citizen. However, It's quite possible that should they raise a high enough profile, they'll be given the next chance to determine a Story direction. Sure seems critical considering how screwed up that server is in terms of power base.

    Did anyone get contacted on Die Neue Welt?

    I still regret they ever split the dimensions. The single world was one of the things that drew me to this game.

    Are any of you in this thread on RK-2? Your views and observations are being read by FunCom story and events empoyees and are considered when setting the tone from patch to patch and between patches. Ever wonder why this forum remained and the PvP and Notum Wars forums are gone. It's because without this forum and these discussions, they couldn't nudge things based on the actual game climate. PvP'ing and tower battles can go on without a forum. Hell, someone's probably fighting someone else right now. But, this discussion doesn't happen without this forums.

  9. #89
    Wow...that IS insightful...

    So...you, and other neutrals are directly responsible for Clanners not being welcome in NLC...

    Now, it seems to me what needs to be done is ferret out those neutral orgs that supported this and simply surgically remove their bases from Rubika...they, effectively, have declared war on all Clanners.

    I think I'll suggest we start with your orgs bases Bio...

    My lesson has been this; before you argue for peace first get rid of all those opponents of peace.

    I can see now why you never expressed any interest in RMC...you had other things in mind.

    Seems like the so-called 'Neutral' community has some purging to do...

    Originally posted by Bionitrous
    OOC-



    That I disagree with.

    Or, strike that.

    Maybe some people don't get it. Before the last 2 or 3 patches on Test Server, Ris Lee contacted an actual person in-game. A dialogue went on for days leading into weeks. A price was determined. Money was raised in-game. Ris decided he wanted more backing from the Neutrals. A meeting was held. 3 Neutral orgs backed the idea, 2 or 3 reserved judgement, 1 or 2 were against.

    Healing Hands wasn't there. Neither was Omega or Desert Winds. We all know they would have opposed it.

    My point being that until the invisible ARK witnessed the meeting in Newland BY3, this thing didn't and wouldn't go down. On my honor, I say and I honestly believe that if we didn't raise the 100 million credits in 3 days and get at least a consensus of 'like minded organizations' as Mr. Lee put it. That the Thugs would not have appeared in Newland 10 days or so later.

    No, we couldn't 'drive' the Story. But we were given the choice to choose a path. Honestly, to be 100% out of character, most of us figured that something different in NLC was worth sticking our necks out on the line. Basically falling down on our swords for the sake of the other players. We all expected reprisals from the 'gamers' but wanted to 'give' a little ****e to both our own friends and cohorts and the Story and RP'ers in general.

    Just make a mental note of this post. I'm telling you now, based on how I've seen FunCom react to in-game politics, that if you want the Sentinels out of Tir, you can do it. You're all on the right path here. You just have to realize it will take at least one patch cycle for them to work it into the plot and effect the changes. If you don't have enough support from your fellow Clan players, it won't happen. But, it is possible. I know it is.

    You got the moat in Tir cleared up.
    The CoT no longer represents you.
    Mercenaries are in NLC.

    While you as players may not be able to dictate if/when Omni-Tek makes a military strike or technical discovery, you can surely rid Tir of the Sentinels if that truly is the sentiment of the majority. There is no reason he can't conduct his business in Sentinel headquarters. And if FunCom wants to strike with Omni-Tek, they can level his headquarters if Silverstone is the target or simply carpet bomb Tir and whoever is running the city at the time.

  10. #90
    OOC:

    I can say for 100% fact that nothing of the sort happened on RK-2.

    My wife's character, Falikos (currently acting president of Shattered Dreams while I take a bit of a break) is a key contact for almost all "official" RP that happens on RK-2. She has worked alongside the events team countless times over the last 6 months to get things much more prominant on RK-2, and is almost always contacted by the ARKs when events are going down--and CERTAINLY anything related to Neutrals.

    Until she read about this on the forums, it was the first time she heard about it at all.

    This development is 100% RK-1, folks. Which is just not fair to the other dimensions.

    The relationship between Clan, Omni, and Neutrals is VERY different on RK-2 than it is on RK-1, and globally applying things like this is just insane. Why should orgs on another dimension determine what is representitive of Neutrals on RK-2? Being one of the more prominent Neutral orgs on RK-2--and probably the most active RP org--I find this very disappointing.

    Knowing what I know about the people involved...I highly doubt the leaders of any of the prominent Neutral orgs on RK-2--The Hand, Free Souls, Shattered Dreams, Rouge's Gallery, etc.--would go for this proposal at all... making this development very out of place, and very misrepresentitive of the Neutral community on RK-2.

    Sure, RK-1 may be bigger... However, RK-2 is not exactly "tiny" either. We should have the power to play things out in our dimension as would be realistically within context.

    Being one of the 3 Neutral org on RK-2 that actually has been able to hold land, I do not look forward to the backlash which will follow this action... especially considering that we have worked SO HARD to mediate with folks that have considered attacking out towers. This flushes all our hard work down the drain--and why?? Because of something that happened on RK-1? Absurd.

    -Jayde

  11. #91
    Originally posted by Nelida
    Wow...that IS insightful...

    So...you, and other neutrals are directly responsible for Clanners not being welcome in NLC...

    Now, it seems to me what needs to be done is ferret out those neutral orgs that supported this and simply surgically remove their bases from Rubika...they, effectively, have declared war on all Clanners.

    I think I'll suggest we start with your orgs bases Bio...

    My lesson has been this; before you argue for peace first get rid of all those opponents of peace.

    I can see now why you never expressed any interest in RMC...you had other things in mind.

    Seems like the so-called 'Neutral' community has some purging to do...

    To Neutrals who supported and paid for the Thugs in NLC:
    Are you happy now? Did you get what you wanted? I understand that you felt you had your back to the wall with clanner aggression, but this was not the right way to go. Now you have one of the biggest proponents of clan/neutral peace ready to go to war to defend clanners. You have the other clan neutral rights fighters exhausted from constant neutral verbal attacks. With all peace proponents tired of being attacked by the people they are fighting for, clanners angered by neutrals hiring thugs to murder clanners, and former neutral rights people disillusioned and ready for war, there will not be many people to stop an out and out war. Only the neutrals that were opposed or did not support the decision will be protected.

    ((OOC: I guess FunCom is going to have their way. If we can leave guilds that were opposed, such as the Independent Rubi kan's, out of this purge, it would be a good thing))

    I have one question for you:

    How well do you think you spent that 100 million now?
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  12. #92
    Guys,

    Careful here not to mix ooc knowledge with ic knowledge. Bionitrous post was ooc, you should not let it colour your ic reactions.
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  13. #93
    ((OOC: The fact that it was out of character doesn't matter. What was revealed to us was that neutrals really raised the money and paid for this. It was preivously believed that it was jsut a FunCom arbitrary decision and in character believed that it was a single, hidden wealthy neutral. Now we know otherwise. And even though the post was OOC, a couple people have said in this thread and others, IC and OOC, that the money was real and that there were guilds that supported it.))
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  14. #94
    OOC
    Good point Savoy...I'll wait till I've uncovered that info in-game IC then I'll put out the call to target Bio's org... *smiles sweetly*

    Originally posted by Savoy
    Guys,

    Careful here not to mix ooc knowledge with ic knowledge. Bionitrous post was ooc, you should not let it colour your ic reactions.

  15. #95
    OOC: I will find the quote, but it has already been stated IC somewhere around here that the money was real and such.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  16. #96
    OOC
    In-character I'm more or less a pacifist...so my last post was tongue-in-cheek...more or less.

    Suffice it to say though that I WILL find out who has hired thugs to shoot me on sight and I will never lift a finger to help any member of those orgs...ever again...even if it means posting a little list next to my monitor. Maybe that means nothing to any of you that wish to see me dead for traveling through NLC...*shrugs* Afterall...I guess I need to know who my IC friends really are...right?

  17. #97
    Well it seems we have very few neutral friends lately, even if we have championed their cause to clanners timea and again.
    Last edited by Uwen; Jan 29th, 2003 at 00:26:05.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  18. #98
    ((I think you are taking this a little more personal that you should Nelida. They weren't hire to kill just you, not like a bunch of Neutrals got together and said Nelida can't come through NLC anymore.))
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  19. #99
    ((Maybe she is taking it a little hard. But you have to understand what is like. People like Nelida, Fixerben, and myself fight for neutral rights and try to restrain clanners and we get repeatedly insulted and compared to the Ku Klux Klan. How would you take that?))
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  20. #100
    I think I'll suggest we start with your orgs bases Bio...
    OOC again -

    That's to be expected. My post was out of character. And I do lament the fact they split the server. You'll also note that it was with a heavy heart that I put my credits and support behind this knowing that it would alienate the more moderate Clan members. The chance to actually make something happen to make this month different from last month outweighed everything and for that I expect to bear the brunt of any 'reprisals'. However, taking down my towers won't make you more welcome by me in Newland. If two wrongs don't make a right, then certainly three don't.

    The fact that all these conversations are taking place makes that 100 million credits and potential destruction of my org's towers a worthwhile expenditure.

    So, you gotta rip the scab off the wound so to speak, to get any progress.

    To be fully honest, FunCom really didn't put this in the best light by consulting with Mercenary organizations. In character, I could care less whether NLC is overrun by Clans, Omni, or purple pixies. I'm repeately redressing people in my org who spout 'Neutral Power!' epithets by reminding them that we are supposed to be in-character looking at our bottom line. Hanging out at the Beer 'n Booze, doing 'jobs' (which are few and far between), and generally being a bunch of rowdy n'ere do wells who watch each other's backs.

    I would have expected this more on RK-2 where Omni-Tek really needs some help.

    I'll be frank. If things like this didn't happen in the game each month, I'd stop playing. Out of character, I was fully ecstatic by the Sentinels moving into Tir. It gave me something to think about and something to talk to. Be honest with yourselves and think whether any of the RP-clique storylines that may or may not be going on could have this effect on their playerbase. That FunCom managed to tie this in to events on (unfortunately only) one of their servers is an added bonus.

    You've got fodder for this forum. We've got something to work with both in-game and here. I see solutions to the Thugs presence on the horizon. You musn't be angry with me the Player, while you can still be angry with me the Character. I'll accept in-game reprisals for my Character's support of some sort of payback for Tir and the evolution of how all our Neutral mining interests were shredded.

    You are all making history. If Clan and Neutral relations are good on RK-2, then play that up. If peace can be made in the next few weeks prior to a new build being put on Test Server, then the Thugs will be ousted. If they won't leave, I'll be fighting alongside whoever stands against them.

    This is a grand experiment. We have been given the option to act or not act. Not acting leaves us with last month plus two new dungeons. That's not enough for me.

    I would gladly go to war with just your organization, Nelida. It would be a grand time for both our orgs. You see, we are able to have fun with this. The game mechanics don't let us do that. We'd counter attack you to reclaim our land and 20 level 200 PvP gankers wiping us out. Damn, I miss UO desperately at times. I just don't understand why they can't implement a table of which orgs have declared war on which others and leave it at that. The game would be so much more fun than having to stand around nervous for 6 hours every single day you play the game wondering which of the 12 uber-guilds full of powergamers on either side is gonna wipe you out and hand your base over to some guild even less powerful than you to crank their XP up a bit.

    I suppose some of you prefer the in-game politics wherein the orgs decide amongst themselves who can/will attack who and who can/will assist who. I don't like it at all. Owing the the immature mentality of the playerbase, it tends toward very little originality. As much as I believe most of the well-intentioned people in this thread would like to defend those other Neutral guilds, the reality is you can't do jack against the guilds who just want to crush you to raise their XP bonus.

    I feel Omni-Tek needs FunCom intervention on RK-2. I don't like how the players have destroyed that server in their quest for the best XP bonus and Tarasque loot.

    Then again, I think Notum Wars is quickly destroying Anarchy Online. It's just not as fun a game anymore as it used to be.

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