Retaliation Article - Issue: Neut&Clan

[Nevver]

Originally posted by Vixentrox
..which means Nevver and Oddfellow...the quipent you weild is more valuable than you yourself. Think on that. Some inanimate object is worth more than your thoughts, dreams, loves, and collective experiences.

That is true. When we leave, that weather control system that Omni-Tek has spent thousands of hours and billions of credits developing will be the first thing that we pack up - long before any Clanners.

[___________Oddfellow]

Uwen, Meister, no matter what he styles himself or what athority he claims in Omni Pol, has no part in the policy making of the Corporation, no more than I do. Omni Tek Policy comes from Director Ross, not Meister, and he is bound by the same policies as the rest of us. If he personally values equipment more than the lives of his personnel, then he is a very poor leader.

Nelida, you can not reject Omni Tek and its laws, only to cry foul when they do not protect you. Unless you know the circumstances of each instance you mention, and the laws that are applicable, then you have no idea whether or not the actions in question were legitimate. Do you know the policies and laws that govern the treatment of captured rebels? If you were treated roughtly, I'm sure you deserved it.

As for attacks on notum mines, again, show me which side is not guilty of transgressions. You claim that Whispers Edge set up a tower on unoccupied land. Are you certain that area had not been previously occupied, or that no claim had been filed with the ICC by the Omni organization that took the land from you?

I made no claims that the clans have no government and therefore no control. In fact, you seem to have too many petty governments, all with different objectives. And the difference is that once an Omni employee has been found guilty of violating the law, they are punished accordingly. You are not privvy to our justice system, so you have no grounds to comment on them.

[BigGreen]

Any law that leaves a pacifist like Nelida bleeding and spitting out teeth is not a law that I agree with nor will I abide by it. Better anarchy than tyrrany, and better democracy than either of those. Question me if you will, or does Omni only interrogate women as a matter of policy?

[______________Nelida]

I'm rejecting them because they don't protect people! And I'm pointing out to you that it is terribly hard to trust your life to hands that have tortured you yet not charged you with any crime. Maybe you'd like to explain your so-called 'laws' to us that seem to not enjoy torture? And your uniformed comment about me deserving the treatment I recieved bespeaks your thoroughly programmed mindset toward Omnitek and Clans.

And, yes, I am COMPLETELY familiar with the circumstance surrounding Whisper's Edge land holdings. WE was formed as a non-violent organization through which we could use diplomatic means to solve our differences with OT. The base WE placed was done so immediately after ICC deregulation and I know for a FACT there were no previous occupants under that deregulation. ICC gave us the legal right to claim that land and we did. What gave OT organizations the right to kill us and take it from us? Where was OT to police it's own?

You talk as though Omni employees somehow have a more homogenious objective...I find that laughable. I've met and dealt with OT employees and organizations that ran the gamut from benign and friendly to outright fascist bezerkers. You are totally unconvincing that Omni employees are inherently any different or less varied in demeanor than Clans.

Maybe it's true that once OT employees have been found guilty they are punished...it's just not true that they are found guilty perhaps... At least when it comes to crimes that are not in OTs best interest to find them guilty of. This IS the impression OT 'law' and 'law enforcement' give many Clanners. Being abducted without charges and tortured does NOTHING to further your credibility as fair and just. Or is there something I've said here that you haven't understood?

Despite all this I still have a passion for peace and prosperity. If you read my posts you could certainly see that. You, on the other hand, seem to want to place blame and take none.

Until all parties decide they want to find a compromise and work with others of like mind, despite the disruptions of a few extremists on all sides, NOTHING will change. That is why I started RMC...unfortunately that seemed to fall on mostly deaf ears... (I do thank some of you for your interest and even your continued interest...perhaps when I've rested and refreshed my soul I'll rejoin the effort.)

Originally posted by Oddfellow
Uwen, Meister, no matter what he styles himself or what athority he claims in Omni Pol, has no part in the policy making of the Corporation, no more than I do. Omni Tek Policy comes from Director Ross, not Meister, and he is bound by the same policies as the rest of us. If he personally values equipment more than the lives of his personnel, then he is a very poor leader.

Nelida, you can not reject Omni Tek and its laws, only to cry foul when they do not protect you. Unless you know the circumstances of each instance you mention, and the laws that are applicable, then you have no idea whether or not the actions in question were legitimate. Do you know the policies and laws that govern the treatment of captured rebels? If you were treated roughtly, I'm sure you deserved it.

As for attacks on notum mines, again, show me which side is not guilty of transgressions. You claim that Whispers Edge set up a tower on unoccupied land. Are you certain that area had not been previously occupied, or that no claim had been filed with the ICC by the Omni organization that took the land from you?

I made no claims that the clans have no government and therefore no control. In fact, you seem to have too many petty governments, all with different objectives. And the difference is that once an Omni employee has been found guilty of violating the law, they are punished accordingly. You are not privvy to our justice system, so you have no grounds to comment on them.

[UwensBack]

Originally posted by Nelida

And, yes, I am COMPLETELY familiar with the circumstance surrounding Whisper's Edge land holdings. WE was formed as a non-violent organization through which we could use diplomatic means to solve our differences with OT. The base WE placed was done so immediately after ICC deregulation and I know for a FACT there were no previous occupants under that deregulation. ICC gave us the legal right to claim that land and we did. What gave OT organizations the right to kill us and take it from us? Where was OT to police it's own?

I haven't ever seen OT policing its own. Remember when Dark Carnival tried to assassinate Radiman? What did the would-be Radiman assassin get? A fine and probation if I remember correctly. And maybe a two month suspension from the company. For attempted murder. Well, I say attempted murder. He actually killed a Radiman clone, so it was murder. Just the wrong person. Anyway, if he had killed Radiman, it would have ruined Omni-Clan negotiations. It, if successful. would have plunged us into a full scale war. And the perpetreter, who, aside from attempting to murder someone, could have started another full scale war. And he was put on probation. And fined.

This is justice?

[Veshel]

The war that rages is for controlling interest in the world of Rubi-ka. The small select groups of the highest power in both Clan and Omni camps drive the war. Omni has lease rights to Rubi-ka which the Clanners have decided to unlawfully challenge.

Ideals that are thrown about liberally are the surface of the water, not the riverbed. Ideals are used to charge and motivate. Some are wise enough to see beyond the veil to the puppetmaster. It is a landcontrol and resource issue that has been twisted to be viewed as something else.

Unfortunately, often time perception is reality. Many believe they are dying for a 'noble cause' when in fact all they are doing is strengthening the backbone of an organization that's only desire is to unlawfully supplant Omni-tek. Sad will be the day when you install a new set of masters, and are yet still treated 'unjustly'.

Some have said war is murder, and I concur. War is large scale murder that has been endorsed by the powers that be to meet an end, usually it relates to land and resources/wealth. Leadership will not take the stand and tell the massess about the real root reasons driving a conflict. The issues are painted with broad philosophical strokes to motive the simple." Right or wrong ", people will always die when political/diplomatic channels have broken down.

Mankind has and will always be greedy and selfish, it is only a matter of degree. The mature recognize this, and work for a compromise of the group good and self well being. There is a way to strengthen the group and the self. I know my role in the order and seek to fulfill it. We can not all be "Boss Ross" as the clanners call him. The trouble with the clanners orgs is they all want to be the head, no one desires to be the hand. Being a body without effective extremities in a material world is unwise.

I have more to say, however not the patience to continue to craft it. Few will ever recognize their role and fulfill it. Few will recognize the flawed and limited nature of man, they will continue to cling to illusions that will never match the reality of what we are.

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by Ephael
The war that rages is for controlling interest in the world of Rubi-ka. The small select groups of the highest power in both Clan and Omni camps drive the war. Omni has lease rights to Rubi-ka which the Clanners have decided to unlawfully challenge.

Ideals that are thrown about liberally are the surface of the water, not the riverbed. Ideals are used to charge and motivate. Some are wise enough to see beyond the veil to the puppetmaster. It is a landcontrol and resource issue that has been twisted to be viewed as something else.

Unfortunately, often time perception is reality. Many believe they are dying for a 'noble cause' when in fact all they are doing is strengthening the backbone of an organization that's only desire is to unlawfully supplant Omni-tek. Sad will be the day when you install a new set of masters, and are yet still treated 'unjustly'.

Some have said war is murder, and I concur. War is large scale murder that has been endorsed by the powers that be to meet an end, usually it relates to land and resources/wealth. Leadership will not take the stand and tell the massess about the real root reasons driving a conflict. The issues are painted with broad philosophical strokes to motive the simple." Right or wrong ", people will always die when political/diplomatic channels have broken down.

Mankind has and will always be greedy and selfish, it is only a matter of degree. The mature recognize this, and work for a compromise of the group good and self well being. There is a way to strengthen the group and the self. I know my role in the order and seek to fulfill it. We can not all be "Boss Ross" as the clanners call him. The trouble with the clanners orgs is they all want to be the head, no one desires to be the hand. Being a body without effective extremities in a material world is unwise.

I have more to say, however not the patience to continue to craft it. Few will ever recognize their role and fulfill it. Few will recognize the flawed and limited nature of man, they will continue to cling to illusions that will never match the reality of what we are.

If everyone believed thus, we would never have progressed as far as we have. We would still be on Earth, hunting game and picking berries for the person who had the biggest cudgel, and accepting that as our lot in life. It is the people who defy the shared paradigm that cause change to occur. Then they are the ones who define the new paradigm, and the cycle continues. That is change. That is progress.

[UwensBack]

Originally posted by Ephael
The war that rages is for controlling interest in the world of Rubi-ka. The small select groups of the highest power in both Clan and Omni camps drive the war. Omni has lease rights to Rubi-ka which the Clanners have decided to unlawfully challenge.

Ideals that are thrown about liberally are the surface of the water, not the riverbed. Ideals are used to charge and motivate. Some are wise enough to see beyond the veil to the puppetmaster. It is a landcontrol and resource issue that has been twisted to be viewed as something else.

Unfortunately, often time perception is reality. Many believe they are dying for a 'noble cause' when in fact all they are doing is strengthening the backbone of an organization that's only desire is to unlawfully supplant Omni-tek. Sad will be the day when you install a new set of masters, and are yet still treated 'unjustly'.

Some have said war is murder, and I concur. War is large scale murder that has been endorsed by the powers that be to meet an end, usually it relates to land and resources/wealth. Leadership will not take the stand and tell the massess about the real root reasons driving a conflict. The issues are painted with broad philosophical strokes to motive the simple." Right or wrong ", people will always die when political/diplomatic channels have broken down.

Mankind has and will always be greedy and selfish, it is only a matter of degree. The mature recognize this, and work for a compromise of the group good and self well being. There is a way to strengthen the group and the self. I know my role in the order and seek to fulfill it. We can not all be "Boss Ross" as the clanners call him. The trouble with the clanners orgs is they all want to be the head, no one desires to be the hand. Being a body without effective extremities in a material world is unwise.

I have more to say, however not the patience to continue to craft it. Few will ever recognize their role and fulfill it. Few will recognize the flawed and limited nature of man, they will continue to cling to illusions that will never match the reality of what we are.

First of all, there is no single driving force behind the clans.

Secondly, the clanners are challenging OmniTek legally. The ICC has stated that seperate groups from OmniTek can exist on RubiKa.

Once we come to the end of this war, the democratic government that will either replace or coexist with OmniTek will not be oppressing the people because the people will be the government. The clanners that are fighting for this do die for a noble cause.

There are people who wish to be the hand and not the head. I, for one, would rather be the Public Relations Official, Diplomatic Advisor, or Ambassador for the democratic government than its leader. I understand that there have to be a body for a head and there are many clanners who understand the same thing.

You make blanket statements about clanners but you have not had any kind of exposure to the majority of clanners. You couldn't have because you work for OmniTek.

Strax is right, if we did not try to overcome our basic, primordial instincts, we would still exist in the ancient times and none of us would be alive because we ourselves or somewhere along the line, every person on RubiKa has an ancestor that was genetically engineered. Homo Nano, Homo Opifex, and Homo Atrox breeds do not have to look very far considering they were all created on and for RubiKa. Homo Solitus were created before OmniTek came to RubiKa so it is possible that some of us Solitus would have to look farther back to find our genetically engineered ancestor, but we still have one. As close as we Solitus are to the "original" humans, we are not original humans.

[Jayde]

Hello,

I cannot speak for all Neutrals, but I can speak for myself. I can also speak for what I think many Neutrals feel regarding this matter.

I do NOT support this action in the slightest bit. I think it's terrible, and will do whatever I can to oppose it. We did not ask for this, and I do not thing many of us want it.

First off, let me say that I find it unfortunate that there has been so much Clan aggresion toward Neutrals recently. I wish this was not the case, and I will continute to work toward the resolution of this situation. I realize that many Clanners have been gracious toward Neutrals, and only a small group have found it to be acceptable to fall under the Sentinals' way of thinking.

With that said, I absolutely oppose this action in Newland City. First off, Loren Warr is not a known member in the Neutral community. Yet she (or he, as the case may be) has simply waltzed in and determined what is "best for us" on her own. Sorry, but this is simply unacceptable. Littering our fine city with mercenaries is just as much an act of aggresion as attacking our towers.

While I wish resolution to the Clan aggressions, this is simply not any good way to accompish that. Violence begets violence. And while there is a time and place for fighting, this is not the way to go about it in the slightest bit.

With all respect for my fellow Rubi-Kans--Neutral, Clan, and Omni alike--I ask that you not let the actions of a rouge outsider change your opinion regarding the Neutral enhabitants of this world. We did not ask for Loren Warr's support, nor do we particular like the idea of our towns being overrun by for-hire Thugs. Actions such as these are pointless and detrimental to everyone's way of life.

To any Clanners out there, I ask that you please stay away from Newland City during this time for your own saftey. To anyone else, I also request that you help the Neutral population in fighting this unwelcome presense.

This is not the act of Neutrals, but the act of mere criminals. And the fight against thugs and murderers is one I think all fellow settlers of this fine planet can get behind--regardless of race, breed, or affiliation.

Thank for you your time.

Sincerely,
Devin "Kojiyama" Augustyn

OOC: To be perfectly blunt, I think this is one of the stupidest things FC has done to date. Having some unknown "person" come in and take over an entire city? Bleh... It bothers me so much that they go forth and do actions that are so against the player climate. *sigh* They ought to really remove that piece of advertisment propganda for AO that claims that players have an influence on the story and world...when they just go ahead and do stuff like this without any chance for players to influence it whatsoever.

[UwensBack]

An excellent statement. It is a wonderful thing to find more neutrals who understand that the mercenaries are not good for them.

((OOC: Yeah it wasn't too bright. I guess we can at least be happy that we have storyline at all, but they really should take off that completely player influenced world tag they have. Thats what drew me to AO but it sure isn't what I got. I have one last thing I am hoping can redeem them- removal of the Sentinels by the clanner majority. That would go along with player wishes and attempts. Then of course they could cite overwhelming neutral opposition to the mercs after seeing that they clanners followed through on removing the Sents and we can get along again and the clans can focus on arguing with OmniTek. More importantly, the neutrals can go back to being neutral.))

[Silinary]

((OOC: I disagree with both of you two on the issue that it should be removed. The reason for this is because it wasn't some arbitrary decision by FC. It was in In game event that happened (on RK1). The cash was real. The neutral backing for them was/is real. Jayde may be able to speak for himself, but that would be it. I know many neutrals that embrace this idea, and seeing as neutrals arn't neumerous, It is a sig portion of the neut community. (again on RK1). The players that dealt wit this situation very well DID have an impact on the world and the way rubi-ka is shaped. Sorry if they didn't ask you specifically, but they did ask.))

I think the jury is still out on whether the mercs will be good or not. We shall see how they conduct themselves. They didn't waltz in to see whats best for us... she was paid to come in. Quite the difference.

[Jayde]

(OOC: Well, unfortunately for FC, there are more than players on RK-1. On RK-2, there was nothing of the sort. There was no money. There was no support. And, as the President of one of the largest Neutral orgs on RK-2, I can say that for a fact, there are hardly any Neutrals on THIS Dimension that support this. While that's all well and good for RK-1, not giving US a chance to change this is totally wrong. There is no reason aside from laziness that both dimensions should have to be forced to play by the same rules. The "conflict" on RK-1 is VASTLY different from that of RK-2, and in the context of dimension-specific politics, this move makes very little, to no sense on RK-2.)

-Jayde

[UwensBack]

((OOC: I didn't know the cash was real and that this was an in game event. Either way, Jayde is right. RK2 is pretty much ignored, I know that and I don't even play on RK2.))

[Veshel]

I clearly hear your words:

however see little in actual action or history that bears this out.>

We have overcome hatred, prejudice, violent aggression, lust, blood lust and irrational greed have we? There are currents within the soul of man that will never be overcome, because they are at the very irreducible root. *chuckles* I would love to teach you...

*Smiles slightly* Actually it is self you shall not be rescued from.

In a way it would be nice for your little democracy to succeed for a time, so you could see who seizes real power in what will actually become\or already be an oligarchy. The noble? the just? Children, grow up.

Man has changed much of his environment, much of his own biology, little of his heart and soul.

Enjoy your illusions while they last...

[Darkbane]

Funny, none of the neutrals I know want anything to do with this, and they cover 3 of the larger neutral organisations and a number of smaller ones. I noticed that the alleged 'neutral' organisation behind this didn't want to be named... su****ious in its own right if you ask me... Or perhaps they are just scared?

[UwensBack]

Originally posted by Ephael
I clearly hear your words:

however see little in actual action or history that bears this out.>

We have overcome hatred, prejudice, violent aggression, lust, blood lust and irrational greed have we? There are currents within the soul of man that will never be overcome, because they are at the very irreducible root. *chuckles* I would love to teach you...

*Smiles slightly* Actually it is self you shall not be rescued from.

In a way it would be nice for your little democracy to succeed for a time, so you could see who seizes real power in what will actually become\or already be an oligarchy. The noble? the just? Children, grow up.

Man has changed much of his environment, much of his own biology, little of his heart and soul.

Enjoy your illusions while they last...

I did not mean to imply that we have completely overcome our basis instincts. What I did mean was that we have overcome them enough to progress and come up with things like democracy and personal freedoms.

But all this aside, if you think about it, the only people who should have insticts that come from ancient times are Solitus. The Homo Nano, Opifex, and Atrox breeds were all created on RubiKa and have only been around for a couple of centuries. This is not to say that the aforementioned breeds are void of vice. Not all inherent vices are caused by instinct. But the new breeds can overcome some of the things Solitus will only be able to fight.

[___________Lady Kali]

Originally posted by Nelida
I agree with Cellestron...

All I hear about is how Clans attack and kill Neutrals. The SIMPLE fact of the matter is that Omni do the same in equal or even greater numbers. I frequent NLC and MORE often than not I see Omni killing guards there.

It's funny, I swim in Newland lake all the time. The ones who kill the guards are an equal mix of Omni and Clan, not more so one than the other. Then there's the Sentinels and the Clan attacks on neutral mining (which FAR outnumber Omni guild attacks) that drops the scale to one side.

My initial contact with clan was favorable, I was very young and unguilded in those days. I met a nice group from Rising Phoenix who I have not forgotten. However, they were the only good experience that I can remember. And it is getting harder and harder to keep them in mind with every injustice I see done by Clan.

I've read a lot of "neutrals should be grateful to Clan or else they would not exist". Greatful for what? Being mercilessly shot at in 25% zones in the past? The first time I was murdered it was at the hands of a bloodthirsty pack of Clanners who ganged up on me as I was on my way to meet with a group of my friends.

Thank you for making my life a living hell, simply because I see no grace in either side and refuse to pick bewteen two evils. Not to mention being hounded with "pick a side fencesitter!" comments I get when I defend my guild bases from Clan attacks. Yeah, thanks I'm real grateful to Clan. Thank you for becoming my enemy. Thank you for reasuring me that I can trust NO ONE but my own kind. Thank you for making me realize that Clan has a LONG way to go in becoming the guardians of freedom.

Although I try to remind myself that there ARE clans out there who are TRYING their best to change this, it is getting harder by the minute- especially when I see a lot of the "friendly" ones turn around and demand I kow-tow and give respect.

[_______Farah Oersted]

Originally posted by Lady Kali
Although I try to remind myself that there ARE clans out there who are TRYING their best to change this, it is getting harder by the minute- especially when I see a lot of the "friendly" ones turn around and demand I kow-tow and give respect.

That's because in their "democracy", we're nothing but second-class citizens.

/snivel
Yes, massa', thank ya fer not siccing the Klans on us. Yes, we're eternally grateful that you allowed us to live in peace (even though we get treated like crap). Mind if I spit-shine your jackboots just so you can slam it into my face, massa'?
/end snivel

As long as Klanners continue to deny us Neutrals our basic civil rights (freedom from being griefed, freedom to own land, and the freedom to move around as we wish), I will not support thier "democracy".

*right fist raised in defiance*

Neutral Pride!

[_______________Viray]

*right fist raised in defiance of any opressor*

Neutral Pride!