Retaliation Article - Issue: Neut&Clan

[Silinary]

To not respond, would be proving you correct in your acusations. As such, I have to respond. I dont' step down to a challenge, even if I may get beat.

Originally posted by Nelida
By promoting the selective killing of Clan over Omni, even though Omni crimes against Neutrals are AS prevalent as Clan crimes, you are NO longer Neutral.

You seem to be blind to the numerous attacks by Omni against Neutrals...why would this be unless you are an Omni sympathizer? Hence are no longer neutral?

List them. Perhaps you are not reading what I say. To ignore, is to disrespect. I dont' appreciate that, especially from someone that seeks peace (you). I am not blind to Omni crimes to neutrals. But in the case of tower wars, there have only been 2 omni assults on neutral towers that I know of. Clans have made five times that many, and Omni commit more crimes you say? I do not know the situation in newland. As I stated in my previous post which you ignored, I am never on the outside of newland. I'm usually too busy defending my towers to babysit the newland guards. The ICC I could care less about. Are they crimes aganist neutrals, yes. Are they more important? I dont' feel they are. If the ICC wishes to let their people get slaughtered, that is there buisness. It does not effect me.

Omni sympathizer? no. Re-read what I posted and understand it. Failure to do that will make you look more the fool Nelida.

Sentinels took over Tir without ANY request from Clans...we have virtually no control over it except when a few brave souls like Fixerben take it upon themselves to kill the Tir whompa Sentinel guards as fast as they spawn. In other words some of us DO keep our criminals at bay. Do YOU do the same? (That was rhetorical, of course you do NOT.)

What current criminals do neutrals have? Again i say list them. Are the mercs hired, yes. I hope to see them arrive shortly.

Killing the grunts of the sentinals do nothing, you need to strike the head. Perhaps thats where the problems lie. Basic Sentinal guards don't trouble neutrals, but their superiors do. We helped take them down before, and were attacked by other clans that support them. We will not help in this again.

"Should Omni attack those guards..." What? Do you pay ANY attention to what goes on outside the NLC gates? I see Omni killing NLC guards FAR more often than Clanners. The few times I've seen Clan killing guards I've both berated them for it and contacted their guild leaders. More often than not it has resulted in them stopping what they were doing. How many Omni have you seen or heard of trying to police their own? (Again that was rhetorical...no need to embarass yourself by answering.)

The "truth"? Your stereotyped neutral 'holier than thou' attitude is showing through again...

I travel through NLC all the time and will continue to do so. If the thugs you call guards decide to attack me I'll respond by either mesmerising their small minds or just killing them in return. I will never deny any citizen of RK free travel NOR will I be denyed free travel. Period, the end.

I don't pay attention enough to the outside of NLC to know the going on, and as stated before, I care less about it. I would rather see the new guards in Borealis as I see that as more my home and to hell with Newland, but it was what was offered, with no changes. I don't care for omni, and I don't care for clan. I care about myself, and my org. Perhaps that will show you my motivation for discussion. I am neutral, and proud of that. Just as you are clan, and proud of that.

Me, holier then thou? no. I know my faults. I dont' know yours. Are you sure its me that has this attitude? Last I checked I just tried to explain the reasons for the way things happened. You are the one verbally assulting me Nelida. People wonder why there is a neutral and clan conflict... and this shows evidence of it here.

If you wish to continue to travel through NLC, by all means, thats your choice. At least you got fair warning. Neutrals were never givin that about the Sentinals ... If you want free travel, you know the risks. If you don't heed the warnings, its your hide, not mine.

[BigGreen]

OOC ((This feels like a revival of the "My Stance" thread. We all hurled insults at each other and no-one changed their mind. There are plenty of hurt feelings to go around, no-one has a monpoly on that. Until there is some time and distance to this issue I doubt we are going to see any peaceful resolution.))

IC
"Without the rise of the clans, Omni would have continued its existence without war on Rubi-Ka. The nuetral faction would always be there as those few who simply chose to live outside the organization, in disagreement, but not in conflict. "

Absurd! The clans led a revolt because we were being exploited by this company you so greatly admire, Blix. If we had been allowed to walk away from our jobs, we would have done so peaceably. Omni tried to make us slaves, to take away our rights as human beings. We fought, and still fight, for freedom. For Independence from Omni (Independence, does that sound familiar Neutrals?). And yes, not a one of us would feel bad if Omni packed up and left. But they haven't, and they won't. Neutrals are no more safe from Omni's greedy clutches than Clan is. Less so, in fact, due to smaller numbers. If the Clans ever lose the continuing struggle for independence, I would bet my yalm that Neutrals would last all of a single day before Omni took Newland and Borealis.

To your other point, we have managed Athen, a formerly Omni city, quite nicely thank you. We have our own engineers and bureaucrats. No-one needs Omni around to tell us how to drink tea. Don't believe me? Let Omni leave, and we'll show you.

[BigGreen]

"To not respond, would be proving you correct in your acusations. As such, I have to respond. I dont' step down to a challenge, even if I may get beat. "

((OOC I do not take this same view. If I do not respond to an accusation, it's because I've either already responded to it or feel it's not worth my time. I understand the rules of debate very well, but this is not a scored event ))

[_______________Bliqz]

Originally posted by Strax
"Without the rise of the clans, Omni would have continued its existence without war on Rubi-Ka. The nuetral faction would always be there as those few who simply chose to live outside the organization, in disagreement, but not in conflict. "

Absurd! The clans led a revolt because we were being exploited by this company you so greatly admire, Blix. If we had been allowed to walk away from our jobs, we would have done so peaceably. Omni tried to make us slaves, to take away our rights as human beings. We fought, and still fight, for freedom. For Independence from Omni (Independence, does that sound familiar Neutrals?). And yes, not a one of us would feel bad if Omni packed up and left. But they haven't, and they won't. Neutrals are no more safe from Omni's greedy clutches than Clan is. Less so, in fact, due to smaller numbers. If the Clans ever lose the continuing struggle for independence, I would bet my yalm that Neutrals would last all of a single day before Omni took Newland and Borealis.

To your other point, we have managed Athen, a formerly Omni city, quite nicely thank you. We have our own engineers and bureaucrats. No-one needs Omni around to tell us how to drink tea. Don't believe me? Let Omni leave, and we'll show you.

One group of miners were mistreated. And I suppose that ALL you clanners out there are ex-miners. This situation was blown out of proportion and used to fire up the flames of hatred. When more and more time streches between the incident and the present, id does become aparent that those miners were exploited...By Clan liturgists as much as their employers.

And as to Athens and your ability to run yourselves, again you take a Macroscopic view. One township does not a civilization make. I can easily cook a meal for 10 people...but 10 billion are a totaly different matter.

((OOC)) This does come uup now and then, and no it never does "End" the conflict. But it is a good place for noobs (like me) to learn some of the lore in a more accessible format than some of the Funcom documents. It is also noce to get a human side story line. Besides, Its nice to know who are clan players for me to play "against". I hold all of you in the highest respect as players...clan and omni alike.

[Fixerben]

Akudama, how do they cut into your business? They dont attack anyone...They are neutral.

Originally posted by Blix
Without the rise of the clans, Omni would have continued its existence without war on Rubi-Ka. The nuetral faction would always be there as those few who simply chose to live outside the organization, in disagreement, but not in conflict.

Hello, You are such a fool. You dont even know your history. There were no Neutrals before the Clan uprising. Neutrals were born from the Clans.

29250 - The first "neutrals" appear when Omni-Tek employees - as well as clan members - abandon their affiliations and settle in non-political zones. Fearing more ICC interventions, OT authorities turn a blind eye to these neutrals.

48 years after the Clan revolt the FIRST Neutrals appear. There were NO Neutrals before the Clans. Neutral forefathers fought and died with us to win the place you live today. That is why I respect Neutrals. And that is why I overlook your seething tongue.

Originally posted by Blix"Peaceful Clanners"...There are no peaceful clanners. They are all dirt loving anarchists and terrorists. If your intention was to not take up arms in this war, you should have been Neutral. Omni is the Status Quo...Clans only exists to overthrow Omni...If you want to preserve the sanctity of life, your choice to be Clan was ill born....Lets face it, this war is about Greed. Plain and simple.

Once again Bliqz your lack of knowledge is apparent. The Clans werent born to overthrow anyone. They were born to bring a democratic government to Rubi-Ka. Omni-Tek can continue to profit from mining Notum. Thats not the issue. The issue is for HUMAN RIGHTS. The Clans were formed to free the people, not the Notum.

July 24 29206 - Reaching a critical mass in numbers - and taking advantage of the escalating war between Omni-Tek and Sol Banking Corporation - the clans finally rise up against the authorities. Killing thirty-nine OT guards, sabotaging security droids and other military hardware, the clans seize control of four notum mines and announce their plans for a democratic Rubi-Ka; run by the people, for the people.

"announce their plans for a democratic Rubi-Ka; run by the people, for the people." Does that say "By the Notum, for the Notum"? NO. The war comes down to Human rights to be free, and to Omni-Tek's greed. I live for peace. I do not attack without being attacked first. The Clans were formed to bring Democracy to Rubi-Ka. And with Democracy comes peace.

I fight for the true cause of the Original Clans. I do not live to kill all Omni, I live to make peace with them, and to better the lives of everyone on the planet.

However, do not mistake my peaceful nature for pacifism. If you test me is battle Bliqz you will find me a hard enemy. Do not bring your corrupt views into my cities. We do not want them.

I never proposed a world where would all be rich, and all eat the same, and have the same quality of life. I only said it is better to live free and able to decide to do what you want to do, than it is to be beaten and forced to work in unsafe conditions.

That is why the Miners revolted.

Bliqz you should listen to what I say, and propose before you accuse me of things that are nonexistant. I am peaceful, and I will be until I am attacked. You just attacked me. I will not be peaceful with you.

[Fixerben]

Bliqz and Silinar your ignorance of the Clans real cause disgusts me. I will fight for peace until the day I die. I will not speak with you again.

[______________Nelida]

The placement of guards predisposed to kill Clanners in NLC is in NO way going to stop attacks on Neutral bases...unless there is some obscure logic here I'm missing it is only likely to inflame those Clan thugs that are attacking without provocation.

As to stopping attacks on ANYONE's legally placed bases (legally as in placed on empty land as per ICC deregulation...NOT taken by force without provocation from a prior owner) I must ask you if you have been involved with RMC in any way? Seeing that I started RMC as a means of providing safety for land owners and a joint means of providing some modicum of security, I would think you would be interested in that effort. I am no longer involved in RMC for a number of reasons but I don't recall ever seeing your involvement.

Bring on your NLC 'guards', encourage them to shoot at Clanners without provocation, see what it does for your base security. What a laugh to think it will make any difference.

If you want any chance of peaceful and secure land ownership I'd strongly suggest you begin to band together with others of ALL factions with similar intentions. By shooting inocents on any side you are not going to further any effort of peace...but then that really should be obvious.

[_______________Bliqz]

Originally posted by Fixerben
I will fight for peace

Now please make me understand that!

[Vixentrox]

You fight for your version of peace, he fights for his, I fight for my version.

[______________Nelida]

*looks around and considers yet another nursery rhyme variation to point out the insanity of all this killing and destruction*

[Fixerben]

Originally posted by Bliqz


Now please make me understand that!

Bliqz fighting is not always in a physical form, dont be so literal.

[cellestron]

Originally posted by Silinar
I am not blind to Omni crimes to neutrals. But in the case of tower wars, there have only been 2 omni assults on neutral towers that I know of. Clans have made five times that many, and Omni commit more crimes you say? .

I know of 4 Assaults by omni employees on a Neutral tower site in NLD within the past 2 weeks. All failed.

And that is just one tower site.

In addition, BDS is in possesion of information that suggests....but does not prove......certain clans may have been manipulated into attacking Neutral towers by undercover omni agents. I can assure you the matter is being investigated.

As you are so fond of saying, things are not always as they seem.

[_______________Bliqz]

Originally posted by Fixerben
Hello, You are such a fool. You dont even know your history. There were no Neutrals before the Clan uprising. Neutrals were born from the Clans.

29250 - The first "neutrals" appear when Omni-Tek employees - as well as clan members - abandon their affiliations and settle in non-political zones. Fearing more ICC interventions, OT authorities turn a blind eye to these neutrals.

48 years after the Clan revolt the FIRST Neutrals appear. There were NO Neutrals before the Clans. Neutral forefathers fought and died with us to win the place you live today. That is why I respect Neutrals. And that is why I overlook your seething tongue.

Isaid that they would exist as those few who chose to live outside the organization. It was a comparison, not a qualification. There always have been and always will be people who are not employed by Omni Tec.

Originally posted by Fixerben

Once again Bliqz your lack of knowledge is apparent. The Clans werent born to overthrow anyone.

And...

Originally posted by Fixerben
July 24 29206 - Reaching a critical mass in numbers - and taking advantage of the escalating war between Omni-Tek and Sol Banking Corporation - the clans finally rise up against the authorities. Killing thirty-nine OT guards, sabotaging security droids and other military hardware.

Keep Digging, Clanner.

Originally posted by Fixerben
I fight for the true cause of the Original Clans. I do not live to kill all Omni, I live to make peace with them, and to better the lives of everyone on the planet.

This just bears repeating at this point:

Originally posted by Fixerben
July 24 29206 - Reaching a critical mass in numbers - and taking advantage of the escalating war between Omni-Tek and Sol Banking Corporation - the clans finally rise up against the authorities. Killing thirty-nine OT guards, sabotaging security droids and other military hardware.

Which original clans? The ones you spoke about here?

Originally posted by Fixerben
Bliqz you should listen to what I say, and propose before you accuse me of things that are nonexistant. I am peaceful, and I will be until I am attacked. You just attacked me. I will not be peaceful with you

Perhaps you SHOULD be peaceful with me as it seems you have enough conflict in your life already?

History is always subject to interpretation. Im not enying that those miners should have been allowed to quit their jobs and seek employment elsewhere. I never have. So dont hide behind dates and publications that can support either side of an argument.

But the clan leaders have fanned a candle into a flame, and are only now finding out what happens when you play with fire. Let us all hope for a peace before those flames consume us all.

[___________Oddfellow]

It seems foolish to me to hold the present Omni Tek administration responsible for the mistakes of the distant past. Rights were violated a couple hundred years ago. Tragic? Sure, but since Omni Tek has already changed(or been forced to change if you perfer to look at it that way) its policies, why cant the clans claim victory in that they achieved their goals, put down their arms, and stop attacking the current manifestation of the OT Corporation Rubi Ka Division?

The clans, even though the ICC grants Omni Tek the right to govern the whole of Rubi Ka, are not the target of Omni Tek. Director Ross's orders to all employees were to protect Corporate interests and SPECIFICALLY not to seek to govern the clans or subject them to OT laws, with the exception of those found actively seeking to damage OT operations or harm OT employees. Given that as the current OT policy in regards to the clans, and their repeated denouncements of everything Omni, who is the agressor now?

[Fixerben]

"Isaid that they would exist as those few who chose to live outside the organization. It was a comparison, not a qualification. There always have been and always will be people who are not employed by Omni Tek"

Bliqz, there were NO Neutrals before the Clans, and there never would be if not for the Clans. EVERYONE ON THE PLANET WAS OT UNTIL THE CLANS ROSE.

How old are you Boy? Do you know what it was like? Of course not. I was there, so was Vixentrox. I dont hide behind anything. My life is out in the open for everyone to see.

"Which original clans? The ones you spoke about here? "

If you dont know which Clans were responsible for the originial uprising I wont even bother to continue this conversation. Goodbye.

[Fixerben]

Originally posted by Oddfellow
It seems foolish to me to hold the present Omni Tek administration responsible for the mistakes of the distant past. Rights were violated a couple hundred years ago. Tragic? Sure, but since Omni Tek has already changed(or been forced to change if you perfer to look at it that way) its policies, why cant the clans claim victory in that they achieved their goals, put down their arms, and stop attacking the current manifestation of the OT Corporation Rubi Ka Division?

The clans, even though the ICC grants Omni Tek the right to govern the whole of Rubi Ka, are not the target of Omni Tek. Director Ross's orders to all employees were to protect Corporate interests and SPECIFICALLY not to seek to govern the clans or subject them to OT laws, with the exception of those found actively seeking to damage OT operations or harm OT employees. Given that as the current OT policy in regards to the clans, and their repeated denouncements of everything Omni, who is the agressor now?

The Clans have not acheived their goals. The Clan goal is to bring a democratic government to Rubi-Ka. One by the people, for the people. We will not rest until we can live free.

[___________Oddfellow]

So, in other words, winning your own freedom isnt enough, you want to force your version of freedom upon everyone else? How very democratic of you...

[Fixerben]

I never said that either. With the departure of the CoT and the uprisal of the Sentinels only one Clan city is Free. Tir, and even Tir is not truly free. OmniTek has jurisdiction over all cities acccording to law at the moment. Therefore the Clans are not free, but are under OmniTek jurisdiction. You show me where the Clans are free, and I will give you 1 million credits.

[Vixentrox]

With a democracy you can vote. Under OT rule...well...you are a peasent toiling the feilds for your lord and master with no say in what happens around you.

[_______Farah Oersted]

Originally posted by Fixerben
I will fight for peace

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity."
- old Earth quote