Is it all about pvp only cheat like stuffs?

[_____________Redlick]

By "cheat like", I of course mean twinke and/or guild overequip. Let's imagine no one use the numerous and well know expoits...

I started one more new char... at lvl 5, I see a big pvp contest at arena. I thought it was maybe time to look at pvp, a litle more in deepth. To say it frankly, I had been more deceited than I though. I imagine, I simply not got the point, and that's the raison I start this thread.

What I have seen was 2 very differents category of peoples. The first one, was "true" low level, that like me, wear the armor they got at lvl <10, and weapons, and such. I got killed and I killed such players, and it was fun.

Very quickly, a bunch of lvl <10 with senpai coat comes. Most, them was cool, and act a decent way with "true" newbie. But, like you can imagine, after a time, somes "senpai coat" start to buff/heal the newbie, and even fight them (the survivor at start).

It's maybe not obvious for some player, but there are no risk and no value to kill a true newbie with such hight ql stuffs. I don't mean that all "senpai coat" newbie was that way stupid, but I'm effraid that pvp is populate by loads of such player. Players that would love getting their titles whatever they need to do to have it.

To be able to face such players, I would obviously be obliged to use their tactics myself. I do not realy see the point in that: getting few mills with a lvl 100 char and giving them to a lower is just boring. I think, I'll rather go to buy them on ebay, which at least, is faster.

But, what's the point of all that?? Going on ebay to buy hight ql stuff, pay 10 bucks to get access to an exploit web site, overequip ql 200 implants on a lvl 10 with guildmate help... then go back to arena.... and wait hours to get a victim?? Ouch... sounds to have as much interest as a civil worker day, to me.

Since there are lots of players doing pvp, I would love to hear what I missed in pvp game as it is now.

[MrBunny]

Originally posted by Gwen69
By "cheat like", I of course mean twinke and/or guild overequip. Let's imagine no one use the numerous and well know expoits...

To be able to face such players, I would obviously be obliged to use their tactics myself. I do not realy see the point in that: getting few mills with a lvl 100 char and giving them to a lower is just boring. I think, I'll rather go to buy them on ebay, which at least, is faster.

But, what's the point of all that?? Going on ebay to buy hight ql stuff, pay 10 bucks to get access to an exploit web site, overequip ql 200 implants on a lvl 10 with guildmate help... then go back to arena.... and wait hours to get a victim?? Ouch... sounds to have as much interest as a civil worker day, to me.

Since there are lots of players doing pvp, I would love to hear what I missed in pvp game as it is now.

well no one can really give you a real answer since it would involve being God. And I am sure God doesnt play this game. He/she might for all we know but I doubt it. but PERSONALLY, yes I think the great vast majority of people who do pvp are twinked to hell, and whatever. I saw a level 8 one time, run around the omni arena, killing level 30's left and right. Obviously he was twinked, cause at that time I was like whoa dude how did you manage to kill those people so much higher. And he told me, That it was easy when you over equip a beam thats way higher than your level. And I asked him what ql beam he was wielding, and he dropped the item into the chat bar and when I clicked I found it was ql 50. He was an enforcer by the way...

I can honestly see some good reasons to buy credits off ebay. I mean when you think about it, its never in an attempt to harm the game, but to get more fun out of the game. You know what I mean? Let's say mr bob, is a level 15 ma, now mr bob, is having a hard time playing. He works at his job, comes home, and wants to play.. problem is he can't really play.. since it would involve literally a few hours that he doesn't have. So what are mr bob's options ? Cancel his AO account ? Or to somehow make his life easier..

Well I am sure Funcom doesn't want him to cancel his account because that would mean money thats not going into their pockets. And mr bob doesnt want to quit because he genuinely loves to play AO. So what does mr bob do? he gets credits off ebay, and that in itself raises his interest in AO, and his character enjoyment in AO. cause now he can buy things he couldnt buy before... plus if he buys off the public market channels, then he is kinda spreading that money all around right ? So which is better.. cash circulating or cash staying in the pockets of a high level character... well personally I'd rather have some of that cash if mr bob likes that ql 20 nova flow im selling..

What makes people upset about over equipping is that not everyone is on equal footing. I guess I can go into a long and tedious argument about over equipping and game mechanics, but in short the only real problem people have is that they feel deceived.. deceived in that they should have been able to kill that level 8 enforcer, because they were level 15, almost twice as "experienced" as that level 8. And when people feel deceived or feel cheated, they start to get mad. And when people get mad, people start to get even madder. And whatever happens after that is up to the human mind set.. but that is my view on the twinking thing..

[_____________Redlick]

You made many good points, MrBunny. I'm glad you did, and I thank you for it.

First of them is that "being a god" feature. I think you are right and that is what can justify the interest of pvp, despite it's actual state. Many peoples love to feel themself "uber", and there are few satisfactions at being beter than a stupid ia. I never had thought it that way, but it's maybe one of the point it made me a "pure healer" doc: I'm at the control of a very important feature in a team of human player... I can literaly save you. It even happens I do it.

But, as doc, I'm subject to all the games mechanisms. I realy have to fight to the other players fear and I have a huge FC enemy: stats. I imagine, I could overequip like hell, but it would be of few help because 1) it would not increase my heal more than 30%, 2) most of the doc is it's "way & tactics". Thus, to be good doc, you need to invest yourself in the job.

That's somehow my point: it's great satisfaction to learn something. It's also great satisfaction to be able to use what you learned. That's the kind of satisfaction I got from ao up to now. And that's the raison I liked ao.

But... it looks there is very few to learn about pvp, like it is by now. It realy looks all you need is a litle cash (or stutborn stupid obstination). There are no dificulties to surf the web to find recipes about how to becomes the bigest *** of ao.
Since there are few dificulties, satisfactions comes from something else than being a victor. And... being a victor is what I have liked in ao, up to now.

You said, MrBunny, that you can understand, and maybe support the fact that we can buy ao credits (and stuffs) on ebay. I do understand and support it like you. Despite it can looks lame, I do not see how in a world like our, we could stop such a feature, and thus, we are beter to live with it.
I would even point out that any ao player had buy an expensive computer to play it and pay a lot more than few bucks on ebay. Thus I do not realy understand why, having the last $$$ video card could be ok, but not buying mills on ebay, by exemple.

Like you did, MrBunny, there is also other points to look at the ebay feature. Some people (me, by exemple) sell their work. By no way, I would ever sell a mill on ebay, because... mills are way too cheap on ebay. At reverse, I do not see why I would do stupid brainless run mission (or other brainless cheat, recipes are not very rare) to get something I could have cheaper on ebay.
If there are workless peoples or scoolless teenagers that have a computer and no cash that way, I do not understand why I could not buy them their work, or what would be lame doing it.

But... on another point, I don't see what would be the fun to use credits I would have "gained" that way. I will no more buy credits on ebay than doing brainless run mission just to overequip a poor lvl 80 character! I will rather do something else, I think.

A third point you made, MrBunny, was to talk about the overequip war. Of course, when you are killed by an overequiped (and maybe cheated) player, all you want is to overequip yourself to kill him/her back. That's good, imho, because it means you care about your game character. If you was not wanting to take your revange, Funcom would have missed one of the main point in that game.

However, like it is now, it is hopeless to match the general overequipement without doing it yourself. I would even say: without overequiping yourself like hell.
It can be looks very hard to overequip (some player brag about their skill in it), but it is not (even without ebay). Thus, you'll too easely reach your goal. And then, you'll start to be bothered by the game. Too easy game are not funny.
You'll however no more be able to team decently with "standard" character, and takes fun from "normal" critter. You'll have no other choice that continuing to overequip and take your fun the best you can. Not a very nice perspective.

Okay, since games like Diablo 1 continue to be played over the 'net, I imagine there will always be a public for such game.
But I left Diablo early because despite it's promesses, it was no fun enough to me. I don't plan to go back to a "Diablo 1 like" game, and that is what ao pvp looks atm.

[__________NicholaSix]

OK, I'm going to say this again, ARENA is PUNK STYLE PVP, esp at level 15 and below. If you are not uber twinked don't go to the arena. You will be angry and never pvp again. Arena tactics are weak, the low level twinks get people really jaded on PVP forever, and the terrain is boring.

Once you level to 40-75 there is a wider range of players. Still 50% or more of the players in that range are well built (translates to TWINK 4 u) but there are more people you can have a "fair fight" with. Stick to 2ho and MMD. This range is VERY fun to PVP in. You can also level right up to 74 and stay there if you want, I have one I stoped leveling at 51 where I think she is perfect.

After 75 things start to balance out, everyone equips similar gear at similar levels. Class differences make the character here and of course level difference.

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Gwen69
By "cheat like", I of course mean twinke and/or guild overequip. Let's imagine no one use the numerous and well know expoits...

I'm not a big fan of PvP in AO, as it is out of balance and revolves arounf grid/whompa camping atm, but I think you made one bad assumption. Overequipping and Twinking is in no way a Cheat. Cheat seems to be a word just thrown around. If someone is Lvl10 and running around qith QL200 implants then, yes, they exploited because it is impossibly by any means to have the Body attributes or treatment skill necessary to put those in at that level. Something around 400 Agil/sense/intel/strength/psy and 900+ treatment at level 10 is exploiting and if you petitioned them and their gear was checked they'd lose their account for exploiting.

On the note of senpai armor. I had a level 8 atrox enforcer once (now deleted), who had QL20+ Plasteel Armor. I, in no way, exploited or cheated to do this. I got a few buffs from people I did not know, and spent hours running store to store trying to find matching Armor of the same QL. All I did was twink him a bit. Some senpai comes as low as in the Lvl20's, so it is possible to have it. I have also seen QL1 Senpai coats and I OWN A QL1 SENPAI Helmet. So I could easily run all over town with a level 1 with a Senpai helmet.

To base exploiting on someone's armor is wrong (unless that level10 were wearing Omni-Pol Elite/Nano/Flowers Tech/etc.).

Like I said the game is out of balance in PvP in the sense that atm, Only twinks can compete early on and Docs and Meta's are pretty uber at high levels.

I'd also suggest at level 40-60 taking a look around Stret West Bank. it was the best, most enjoyable PvP area I ever went. Of course you have to run around to find your victims, but there are usually people there doing missions are running around looking for victims too. You don't see too many crazy twinks there... or at least I didn't. By that level all the super twinkers have moved to the 2h0 grid and just stand their for hours

[_____________Cloudeh]

There is hundreds of exploiters out there, hide...
Dont trust anyone, ITS MAD I TELL YOU!

[Takima]

The thing is, twinking is so easy in this game. That's why so many people do it. On a lvl 1 atrox engi, I got QL15 implants in, 20 NCUs, 200ish acs from his armor and buffs, and a QL 7 bot. Limiting factor was the NCU. I probably could have got higher ones if I spent the time looking for them, but I didn't want to spend more than a hour doing this.

[_____________Redlick]

I'm not a big fan of PvP in AO, as it is out of balance and revolves arounf grid/whompa camping atm, but I think you made one bad assumption. Overequipping and Twinking is in no way a Cheat. Cheat seems to be a word just thrown around. If someone is Lvl10 and running around qith QL200 implants then, yes, they exploited because it is impossibly by any means to have the Body attributes or treatment skill necessary to put those in at that level. Something around 400 Agil/sense/intel/strength/psy and 900+ treatment at level 10 is exploiting and if you petitioned them and their gear was checked they'd lose their account for exploiting.

Well, well... I'll make my self a litle more clear.

I don't care about cheat and cheater. I'm not a funcom guy looking about them, and in need of a correct definition to be able to ban or warn them. To say it frankly, I even think that if there are guilty, on the top of the list, you should put Funcom that did the game the way it is.

By "cheat like" (ok, I could have used a term more neutral), I mean all those stuffs you do that you couldn't if it was your first character. With such definition, at extrem, calling the guildmates of your lvl 50+ character to help your new lvl 5 is "cheat like".

I do not realy care if you can have a senpai and a beam that do 80 points damage legaly at level 7 or so. I know that when 4 pvps player over 20 have that and 12 other can opose them, there is a problem. It's not my job to say why, how and such...
As customer, I just drop the product called "pvp" and I get out of the shop saying "no". That's enough.

Like VNine pointed it out, it is realy easy to make a "well built" (to use a more neutral term) character in ao. My question is what the fun is in doing that? I'm effraid it will be as cool as getting trainers on the web and Alt-tab a max to be the best pk. That was just plainly boring, and I just left Diablo when it turned that way.

I looked seriously at pvp for 2 days now, and I didn't get the envy to have a pvp title. It looks just a loosy brainless stuffs, and I think that if pvp was not seen as "over" pvm someway, there would not be any interest for it.
What I have seen up to now is a bunch of litle whiners trying to get a sad revange on ghosts that are in the same lamer gear as them.

Funcom didn't makes the game for the power involved actualy in pvp, and it will then always been loosy, of course.
You can cry for the "balance" as much as you want, it's not ao you play, it's something that got out of the creator concept, and it's of course not a good product.

I'm like everyone: if I change my mind and choose to try pvp someday, the first think I'll do is going to buy an access to one of those info site of the web. Then, with a few mills I'll make a "well built" lvl 40 atrox enf (if those are the easiest) and I'll kill the nastiest way I could until I'll understand a litle more and retry it a more studied way.
But, up to now, I don't see the point of that.

What I have seen of pvp looks as brainless as playing the sims mixed with the settlers (plus some brag here and there, ok). That's all. I realy hope I'm wrong. But I'm kinda effraid I am not.

[Tiggy]

I was introduced to pvp in the Arena at level 30 duelling a super twinked exploiter. Not exactly a fair fight by any stretch of the imagination. I thought that pvp was a waste of time. When I reached level 60 I discovered MMD and teams of people fighting it out. Now that is fun, the chaos, confusion and excitement is enormous fun. Occasionally the super twinks turn up here too, but with large numbers on both sides a lot of their advantage is gone, and they eat the dirt as readily as any one else.

Forget the Arena and one on one pvp. That is spoiled by the large number of super twinks. Just develop your character, as you want. Get a few people together and go to places like MMD. It changed my mind about pvp and I don’t feel I have to super twink my character in order to have fun. I am still able to self equip all my armor and weapons and still be effective as a pvp character, just as part of a team (which is more fun anyway).

Luv Tiggy

[Melbringi]

Think about it people if funcom didnt want you to over equip by buffing people and getting trader wranglers, all stat buffs would be self only, all weapon buffs would be self only and fixers would have never gotten that stupid sneak attack buff.

stop crying about it and start doing it too, nothing wrong with using the best stuff available within the restrictions of the game. now if your using exploits to put QL 200 gear on a lvl 50 character thats different but me for instance at lvl 60 i had full QL 90 Secundus a 117 Aleph and QL 70 implants in. The implants i put in by myself the armor and weapon i needed outside help.

Its a team oriented game! sure you can solo but not using the help of other players to make your player the best it can be is just dumb.

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Cloudeh
There is hundreds of exploiters out there, hide...
Dont trust anyone, ITS MAD I TELL YOU!

Hehe .. well, there are. There is no denying that.