Something they could do instead of an overequiping nerf...

[______________Sredni]

For weapons anyways... Increase the effects of attack rating and decrease the effects of what weapon you're actually using. This would make your attacks more reliant on the character vs the actual weapon. It would be a boost for ma's, it would decrease the effectiveness of those massively overquiped shotguns, trader debuffs would be increased in effectivness against weapon users, and a trader would benifit from the skill stolen. Or do this to coincide with an overquiping nerf to boost everyones attacks somewhat.

I dunno, just an idea, flame away.

[_________DaHumAn*!!!]

which doesnt change much at all lol.

[__________SuupaSayen]

I don't think that would help much because most ppl overequip with implants. A few days ago I got a ql 117 hammer on at lvl 42 using only self buffs and brutal thug (which is just +40 over cracka). Its all about the implants!

[__________NicholaSix]

I posted a similar idea. It actually could do a lot to fix the problem. The concept was to make your attack rating the source of 90% of your damage and the quality of the weapon only a small modifier. So yes, implant's would still have a dramatic effect as long as you left em in but funcom already said that plants wouldn't be part of an overequiping nurf. Weapons would just be damage modifiers, and seeds to determine how random damage was around your attack rating.

This way if say you put in a bunch of plants to get a ql200 FP on, then swaped the plants out so your attack rating droped to say 400, you would only do about half as much damage with it as a soldier using the same weapon at the same level with an attack rating of 800.

Anyway, it's all funny talk. Even if anyone thought this was a good idea, and I'm sure over half the people who play this game wouldn't, it's not like funcom would ever take the time and energy to actually do it, and if they did what would be the chance of them doing it right?

[Melbringi]

For classes like Enforcers, Soldiers, Martial Artists, and Agents who do have self buffs thats fine cause they will do more damage than anyone without a selfbuff to attack.. like Fixers the masters of SMGs who geta wimpy 8pt buff and a 64 point sneak attack buff.... yeah.

Besides these same classes are the one hurt least by an over equip buff because they can self buff. If they are going to do any kind of nerf that curtails what people consider problems with over equiping they need to look at how its going to effect all the classes that rely purely on thier weapon to do damage that cant buff themselves, Fixers, i think Adventurers cant... anyone im missing?

Sides from what i have allways seen over equipping is really only a problem with lvl 10-20 twinks after that most classes that cant self buff have to outside buff just to match up and survive solo.

Also monsters must be addressed if this happens because the people complaining that monsters where wimpy way back when where all over equipping, its the way the game is designed its meant to happen if you ask me otherwise agents, docs, and enforcers are the onlyones allowed to over equip armor, hows that make ya feal? hmm? people should really stop complaining and start playing the game like its supposted to be played not whining and making funcom support these players mediocrity.

oh and one more idea... MPs with masteries can over equip thier pets but a fixer cant put a bigger mausser on? hmmmmm.

Melbringi 70 Fixer RK2 with over 100 instruction discs under the belt and still no grid armor MK1, but are you really suprised?

[______________Sredni]

Well, I didn't really think I was whining there , but so be it. I would much prefer that as a soldier my skill with weapons was reflected somewhat, rather then other peoples skill at using temporary implants and getting temporary buffs to equip massive guns. And this is a problem long past low lvls, can you say shotgun docs?

I agree fixers are kinda suckie at pvp atm. I think they should bring back the old bursts. Bursts should do more then a normal shot imho. And an smg buff would certainly be a reasonable request to my thinking. Say Smg Mastery +50. And a 50 pt buff for burst for either soldiers or fixers would be good too.

I know fixers seem to hate their mausser, but wouldn't an attack rating effectiveness increase help ya'll? You must get an ok attack rating for your smgs. One skill for attack, SMG which must be a light color for ya'll.? Ahh well.

[__________NicholaSix]

Soldiers have a +80 burst buff. It's called Riot Control. Has a Psy/Sense Req around 590. Some soldiers might have it. But I can't see many going for offensive steam roller and Total focus before MKX. There are a few around that have it. Wouldn't be a personal choice of mine till past 150.

[______________Sredni]

I was aware of riot control. The thing is it's a ql 126 soldier nano, which kinda limit's it's availability for the masses. A +50 burst buff that doesn't stack with riot would be an acceptable mid range buff I think.

Oh, riot is +110 too

[__________NicholaSix]

yep 110 my bad

[___________Illuvatar]

Originally posted by SuupaSayen
I don't think that would help much because most ppl overequip with implants. A few days ago I got a ql 117 hammer on at lvl 42 using only self buffs and brutal thug (which is just +40 over cracka). Its all about the implants!

If they actually wear the implants to equip the gun, then it isn't overequipping, it's simply equipping. It's a matter of implant switching and stacking etc to get the gun off, then lose all the gun requirements because you don't normally use those implants. That's overequipping. If you got the skills, it isn't overequipped. And the idea was actually excellent. But as stated earlier, people around level 120-130 doesn't need to overequip to get a QL200 gun on, and that is the major problem within this game, tbo.

[Adjust]

quote sredni "can you say shotgun docs"

you where suppose to support me, and now you shoot me in the foot with this! Right i'm going omni ASAP and gonna camp 2HO and MMD tirellessy until i get your head mounted on my over-equipped shotgun! hehe

Nah i do see your point. But traders would have too much power, i mean it's not as if traders have any pvp issues now, whats gonna happen if there draining of ur attack and adding to theres effects ur dmg even more dramaticly! Same situation if they put in this over-equipping nerf(which if done right is a good idea imo), but if a trader can simply 400 drain on you and make your weapon totally infective whats the point :/

[______________Sredni]

Oh um... qwerty.. fancy meeting you here. Just ignore the shotgundoc dig, it's an abberation I truly love getting the stuffing beaten out of me by docs .

[Letah]

Well I agree with the first post.

My pvp char is lvl 11, crat, has a QL65 Vektor, QL82 implants and 1100 ac. Oh yes, I only have 180 base shotgun skill but trust me, not many fellow 10-ers can live more then 5s near me True, its fun to play a few days but its not after a while. the flaming u get is also soooo bad.

They should indeed 'fix' it.

[____________Ejeckted]

the point of making ATK more influential in determining damage
would be balance, without removing overequiping completely
or with 'caps' (just as bad) and 'dumbing down the game' ..

for many players, overequiping .. all the buff juggling ..
implant set swapping .. using the wierd items with modifiers..
doing the math/number-crunching.. that IS AO to me. .
way more fun (imo) than mutant-bashing..

'overequiping' is also the only way to make
some of the alternative weapon choices viable.
(like my lev55 nano-enforcer using a stunglove)

'overequiping' can also help 'casting' professions
save IP when equiping weapons just for thier mods.
like pillows. . or any of the many pistols with
+nanoskill modifiers (some nice new ones this patch)

nobody is saying there arent balance problems
right now with a level80 agent in a QL200 rifle,
but the balance problem lies in the math of how
the ATK rating and QL/stats of the weapon
are multiplied together .. that's what needs to change.

there is no reason to nerf the whole strategy
part of the game that some call 'overequiping';
just make ATK rating more influential in determining
damage and therby make QL matter less . .

your ATK rating is ONLY based on your base skills,
currently worn implants, and active buffs.
that's the real current character strength.
the weapon QL should just act as a bonus . .
so even if that level80 agent has a QL200 rifle,
he's only going to do a tiny bit of extra damage.

with this solution, players can still use all the rules
available to them to optimize themselves, without
making them godlike compared to more casual players.

[Illith]

Originally posted by Sredni
For weapons anyways... Increase the effects of attack rating and decrease the effects of what weapon you're actually using. This would make your attacks more reliant on the character vs the actual weapon. It would be a boost for ma's, it would decrease the effectiveness of those massively overquiped shotguns, trader debuffs would be increased in effectivness against weapon users, and a trader would benifit from the skill stolen. Or do this to coincide with an overquiping nerf to boost everyones attacks somewhat.

I dunno, just an idea, flame away.

problem is debuffs, and traders got em plentyfull.
as a ma i know what it means to get drained and your damage is dependent on your attacjkskill, i had a lvl 75 trader max drain my ma in the arena i went from hitting for 50 to 18.

i am a lvl 113 ma 112 at the time.

you don't whant this to happen to everyone belive.

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Illith


problem is debuffs, and traders got em plentyfull.
as a ma i know what it means to get drained and your damage is dependent on your attacjkskill, i had a lvl 75 trader max drain my ma in the arena i went from hitting for 50 to 18.

i am a lvl 113 ma 112 at the time.

you don't whant this to happen to everyone belive.

Other weapons arent as affected as MA by debuffs,
because MA has been pretty badly broken for a long time.
FC are promising a fix next patch.. higher average damage
and more crits, etc. This should put you on par with all the
'overequiped' weapon users.

[Illith]

because MA has been pretty badly broken for a long time.
FC are promising a fix next patch.. higher average damage
and more crits, etc. This should put you on par with all the
'overequiped' weapon users.

untill i get debuffed by a trader.

you might want to increas the effeck skill has. but you don't want to change the base damm on weapons(atleast not much) at 1000 skill your max dam is increased by a factor 2.5. increase that number yes.
but decreasing weapons alot, and increasing the affeckt by skills. would really make debuffing to powerful.

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Illith
increasing the affeckt by skills. would really make debuffing to powerful.

well.. right now only casters are slowed by debuffs.
if a trader hits a soldier with a -100 weaponskill debuff,
the soldier probably wont even notice.

mathematically, yes, it makes a small difference,
but the debuffs vs. weaponskill balance is in favor of the weapon.
a -130 debuff does little now to affect the damage output of
someone with +850 skill.

after MAs get thier damage fixed next patch,
the same will probably be true.

you're right, if FC makes ATK rating matter more,
debuffs will become more powerful against non-casters.
but that's pretty fair IMO(almost-useless to mildy-effective)

I always feel that it's best to look at the math first,
before 'nerfing' anything. Formulas can be adjusted
again and again until the right balance is found.
.. concealment .. B&E .. stuns .. nano-resist .. evades ..
these are all just calculations and skill-checks and odds,
just like everything else in this game.
damage formulas and debuffs, and how they relate to
'overequiping' should be approached in the same way.

[__________NicholaSix]

Of course the effects of de-buffs could be halved for PVP too =]

[Illith]

Originally posted by Scumbug


well.. right now only casters are slowed by debuffs.
if a trader hits a soldier with a -100 weaponskill debuff,
the soldier probably wont even notice.

mathematically, yes, it makes a small difference,
but the debuffs vs. weaponskill balance is in favor of the weapon.
a -130 debuff does little now to affect the damage output of
someone with +850 skill.

after MAs get thier damage fixed next patch,
the same will probably be true.

you're right, if FC makes ATK rating matter more,
debuffs will become more powerful against non-casters.
but that's pretty fair IMO(almost-useless to mildy-effective)

I always feel that it's best to look at the math first,
before 'nerfing' anything. Formulas can be adjusted
again and again until the right balance is found.
.. concealment .. B&E .. stuns .. nano-resist .. evades ..
these are all just calculations and skill-checks and odds,
just like everything else in this game.
damage formulas and debuffs, and how they relate to
'overequiping' should be approached in the same way.

it woun't help much. with 750 ma. if i am drained 100, i can tell. i do 50 points of damege less when drained. but this probarly mostly becourse the ma weapons is that much worse at rhat skill/ql. a normal gun weilder wounldn't feel it as much. it's not a bad idea. it's basically the same as they are doing just reversed.