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Thread: Refocusing the Community work

  1. #61
    Noted, understood and saddened.

    It wasn't unexpected by any means, but it is still a bummer methinks. You have a pretty cheerful community here on the forums and it'll hurt the playerbase. It will make my "job" as a professional quite a bit harder since I'll have to scour a lot more sites (and sort through more info) to find things to pass on.

    Oh, and Profession specific forums must remain. There aint no MA fansite out there (thou the larger MA guild ones are very good) and I doubt that every profession has a fansite like agent sector. Gotta have them.

    I must ask for 1 thing thou; make all info available on the official forums here, with a time lag. I've always been frustrated when I'm looking for a piece of info (a funcom dev mail, or an exclusive to a fansite) and I have to search for it for 2 hours. I'll read it first on the fan-site of course, but I want to have fast access to it 2 months later without having to scour the archives of 4 sites.
    /DaveDread (D.A.V.E.D.R.E.A.D.: Digital Artificial Violence and Exploration Device/Replicant Engineered for Assassination and Destruction mohahaha)

    200 Opifex Clanner Gimp - Dinged in Style! (dimached a Virulent Minibull) Finally got my head straight, nothing like a goat helmet to get you in shape again. Oh, and those marks on my forehead (yah, still visible through the helmet, duh)... It was a Motorcycle baby. Really. Ran me over in West Athens while I was working on my tan. Think I look bad? You should see the biker.

  2. #62
    Originally posted by Cz
    besheba, good point. That text was writeen ages ago, and has obviously been missed completely when updating the purpose of the bulletin board. I actually think it's from August 2001.

    Please disregard it. It's a mistake that it's still there.

    On the rest, I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. We would never consider that "anything a customer has bad to say is unconstructive". What have I said to that effect?

    Sheffy, I agree with you on the convenience. However, one can easily say that it would also be convenient if we had 6 people working on the community team, and we could all work 24/7, if you get my drift.

    wow so now you say that having a place as a main source of feedback between funcom and its players has become :
    Originally posted by Cz

    Please disregard it. It's a mistake that it's still there.
    and while once again you are not directly saying that bad stuff said by customers is unconstructive, you are by FC's actions removing a means that players can indeed voice them concerns, and thusly stating they are not important enough for your company to continue paying to maintain that form of communication.

    and by complaining that we do not have enough people to keep up with customer complaints, so therefore we need to limit the ways in which customers complaign is like...............WTF

    OMG where did your company go to buissness school?

    this is why i left your comment to sheffy in,

    YES you should hire more people to maintain the darn forums if that is what it takes to keep people happy.

    i keep hearing about volunteers helping etc, well do i volunteer to play this game? do the hundreds of others? NO we pay this is not like a group of kids running a MUD out of their basement and hoping to pay for costs with advertisement on the main web site, this IS A GAME WITH MONTHLY subscriptions.

    NOW HERE IS A CONSTRUCTIVE statement

    Take accountability to your customers, reverese the trend, instead of saying we are going to limmit your whinning by shutting down where you can say we are going to limmit the whinning by addressing the problems and by addressing the problems that means a statement other than "we are aware" "we are working on it" and then actuly fixing it and keep your promises.

    seconndly add credibility

    ADD A COMPLAINT SECTION TO THE CURRENT FORUMS, i promise you this if there is a specific furom for people to go directly too instead of having to post in 100 differnt threads about the same crap 2 things will happen

    1) easy for one person to keep up with, if thats all the cutomer relations people fumcom is willing to employ

    2) consolidation of the complaint threads will occur

    you should also use the expanded thread type of forum, you know the tree branch style, so you do not have to read the posts of people you do not like and can easily recognize the threads with somthing worth saying.
    "death comes slowly to those who anticipate it and swiftly to the unconcerned" Richard Pyott

    You want a duel?.......Go play chess
    You want honor?......Go serve your country in the military

    First pistol crat to reach Chief.

    Proud follower of the Mexican Hat Band Cult.

  3. #63
    Ok...

    I can't describe how bad of an idea this is.

    The exchange forums ARE NOT REPLACEABLE.


    Is funcom in such bad shape that they can't afford to pay some schleb $5 an hour to keep spam links off this board? We are already used to an almost complete lack of feedback - at least we can help each other on official forums.


    These forums are not like the animated series. Dropping them WILL take away much from the experience.


    Why does Funcom see these forums as a hinderance. It's our only place to get heard. I don't buy for a second that "funcom reads all the fan boi sites". I noticed on the feedback page that "suggestions & general feedback" categories were removed.

    This is typical business bs. When you take something away from a customer, try to tell them how much it will benefit them - maybe the fools will believe it.

    John
    Last edited by JohnMclain; Jan 20th, 2003 at 18:11:54.

  4. #64
    Lumin, I agree with what Rosethorn posted; you don't have to visit them all. Find the one that suits you, and stay there. Maybe drop by the others now and then to see what's up.

    Hodaka, I might have read your post a bit fast, thus missing the sarcasm. That happens on Mondays.

    Yes, it does take more work reading several boards, but it takes less time reading 4 than administrating one.

    Piercingevil, unmoderated forums is not an option here.

    Shiseiji, insinuating that we anything but value the community highly really is a bit odd. Consider it. Even if we were blood sucking leeches just craving your last cent off your bank account we would still care for the community, as you're the ones sustaining us.

    I'm not asking for sympathy. But I'm not here to be told I don't care either.

    And yes, happy faces are good. Did you know you only need to smile to feel good? A real smile, that is. Try. Works for me.

    Slaggermulps, possibly, but that would keep me occupied with this task for months; evaluating, changing, evaluating, changing again... and during that time, there would be no time for me for doing the things we want to get from this process; more focus on fan sites, and more time for working on player concerns, etc.

    Sid Scheer, while some professions have good profession sites, not all do. Maybe if we got sites covering each profession?

    I'm not sure why you might think there will be nobody around to address major concerns. This step is meant to free up more time for me to do exactly that. I've already started doing a bit of it, and the Community Corner forum - togetherwith the fan sites - is where I will post on such issues.

    And not all fan sites have pop-ups.

    Kopo, I wouldn't even read this if there was no way to sway some parts of this. Not saying it's likely, but saying it is impossible is a bit too harsh.

    Jellobiafra, the threads that need closing usually get reported. I don't have to go find them.

    besheba, I think we're basically talking based on two different conceptions. We're not closing those forums to reduce feedback, or stop listening (i.e. reading). We're doing it to get more time for it.

    Not sure whether we can change forum structure in this software. I'll have a look.

  5. #65
    So, in understanding that you had alot of people to respond to....am I correct in assuming that Funcom is prepared to wash its hands of its roleplaying community?

    Does the companies own lack of time and resources to develop what was one of the deepest game backstories ever translate into an apathy towards the people that are trying to live in it?

    You said we don't have to go to 4 fansites...or fansites with pop-ups....sure...but that just causes the diaspora I mentioned...and the RP community in AO is NOT robust enough to handle it.

    Isolation = Stagnation.

    If anything, please keep the Roleplay forum as part of the community corner, these people are developing in your story, in the creation the company you work for made, at least a TACIT nod to their efforts and enthusiasm for the games story would be nice.

  6. #66
    Lumin, I agree with what Rosethorn posted; you don't have to visit them all. Find the one that suits you, and stay there. Maybe drop by the others now and then to see what's up.
    I have just visited, the 3 sites listed and 2 of them where in my opinion utterly crap on the msg board part. I have been to them before and didnt like them then either.

    the last one lacked content and the masses that this board has. Another problem whith those boards is that you dont get to use the name you have here. and that kinda puts you into a whole new round of "getting to know people" oh the joy.
    I'll rather spend my time on something else then.
    Operation impending doom 2 seems to have started with patch 15.6.5
    12.6 first contact, 14.6 second attempt, 16.6 Invasion of the gabber bots ?
    Old and bitter player, currently playing: Justincase GA4 wearing phix0r
    Originally posted by Cz
    I already saw this thread, but refrained from answering due to the pleasant show of confidence from Lumin.
    Sing a song for FunCom

  7. #67

    Unhappy

    The reduction of a bulletin board on a computer game is a signal that overall service and support in the game is dropping. A dark day....

    Fewer events. No story.

    Should I start painting "Repent, the end is near!" signs now, or wait until april?
    Travesty
    martial arts has-been
    freedom fighter
    teen idol

    "Dont hate me because I'm beautiful. Hate me because Im sleeping with your girlfriend."

  8. #68
    Sid Scheer, I'm not familar with the expression you're using ("to wash its hands of its roleplaying community"), so I don't know what to answer.

  9. #69
    Originally posted by Cz

    besheba, I think we're basically talking based on two different conceptions. We're not closing those forums to reduce feedback, or stop listening (i.e. reading). We're doing it to get more time for it.

    Not sure whether we can change forum structure in this software. I'll have a look.
    i am not exactly sure what your motives are but i do know this, you will be cutting off communication and that is bad very bad, you may be saying that it is not your intention, but it will result, non the less

    if you read the posts in this forum you do not even have the typical funcom can do nothing wrong fan boi's going to bat for you.

    as a matter of fact the only person who seems to be in full support has a post count of 1, and is from ao vault who will directly and financialy benifit from this new process.

    you seemed to have learned a lesson at funcom with the scope nerf, you announced it, there was an out pouring from your customers

    you decided not to nerf them this was a good thing untill

    you did not give the same opurtunity for people too voice concern over the 1/2 ing of crits in pvp, implemented it and have not heard much complaining about it (compared to scope proposed nerf)

    so with this as only one example of past experinces in the game, it seems to me funcom has learned a lesson.

    Limmit the amount of information and limmit the ways in which people can discuss them, praise them or outright complain about them

    BAD CZ very bad, i do not understand why you do not see this.
    "death comes slowly to those who anticipate it and swiftly to the unconcerned" Richard Pyott

    You want a duel?.......Go play chess
    You want honor?......Go serve your country in the military

    First pistol crat to reach Chief.

    Proud follower of the Mexican Hat Band Cult.

  10. #70
    To wash your hands of something....is to symbolically take no further responsibility or interest in it.

    It is a metaphorical term developed from Pontius Pilate's ritual washing of his hands after allowing Jesus to be crucified.

    My meaning is that in a game with such a huge story, the loss of the RP forums here is an indication that players no longer have any place in it. And Funcom could care less if they do or not. Because anything off your network doesn't exist if you choose not to acknowledge it.

  11. #71
    Since the article wasnt very clear on what was being left open/closed, this is what should occour...
    Article Discussions/Official Polls/Community Corner should be merged together.
    Next Patch/Suggestions merged
    Booster/Expansion packs removed
    Shadowlands forum created
    Cant Get The Game Running/Other Technical Issues/Game Play Bugs merged
    Beginners Corner/Game Mechanics merged (edited from kept)
    Tradeskills removed
    World Of Rubi Ka kept
    PvP Conflict/Tarasque merged (again)
    Notum Wars kept
    Atlantean Market kept
    Rimor Market kept
    Story Discussion/Role-Playing merged
    Professions kept
    Test Server Bugs/Test Server Discussions merged
    Social removed
    ~
    Thats my suggestion.
    Jenslove-165
    Born-July 3rd, 2001

    Finally got me a naner suit...

    Account Created - 2001-06-28 03:53:22

    Jenslove is not, has never been, and will never be Ebayed. So stop harrassing me.

  12. #72
    As I put in the dead storyline forum, AO is now truly a level to combat and combat to loot game.
    Travesty
    martial arts has-been
    freedom fighter
    teen idol

    "Dont hate me because I'm beautiful. Hate me because Im sleeping with your girlfriend."

  13. #73
    Originally posted by Cz

    And not all fan sites have pop-ups.
    They don't now because they get 50 hits a day. But you can bet your arse they are already working on advertising support.

    You know, right now I have a job sitting on my desk that I detest. I hate doing it. I have filled my time doing other things that must be done and continue to put it off. I know, that if I take that job, and throw it into a drawer that I never look in, it will become easier and easier with each passing day to not do that job.

    If you truly care and listen to what your paying customers are saying, you would throw this idea out the window. So far it seems to be about 50-1 against this. Not that numbers like that have meant anything in the past with you people.

    I can't imagine all the back room lobbying that must have been going on by the fan boi sites to make this happen.

    Well, at least you waited till we all got used to the idea of major lag in the game since 14.6. Because we will need that same patience when visiting stratics, the absolute worst, slow loading fan site known to mankind.

    So, this is how it goes:

    I wonder whats going on with the fixer community. Visit site #1. bleh. Site #2. bleh. Site #3. ok screw it. I wonder if GA4 is for sale at a decent price. Site #1, bleh. Site #2, bleh. Oh god, can this go on like this. Oh well, lets check out some player suggestions (which lasts about 45 minutes at site #1, wading through posts like "why do you guys place such a crap game, I would never play this game. F U", because there is no way to control who posts on the boards.

    So, after months of hearing us screaming and yelling about piss poor customer service and an almost total lack of feedback on serious issues, this is what we get. Moved over to numerous fan sites, spread among different groups, and out of sight, out of mind.

    If you thought it was bad business before to have so many people complaining on the official site about the game and FC in general, wait till this happens. Because when we can't complain to you, we are going to have to go elsewhere, including industry mags. And when they are forced into realizing just how pitiful the customer support on this game has become, how many "Game of the Year"s do you think you will get.

    Sorry for the overall tone of this post, it's just that customer support is so bad now, I added it to my sig. Now this.
    Jellobiafra General of First Order
    First Order-Cleaning clanners since 29210
    Visit our website to join!!

  14. #74

    Angry

    This is outragous.

    okay, I can see your point with moderating and checking that everything is okay with every post is too much work. but the solution beeing closing the forums down? This is our ONLY real good meeting place in the community, and the only one which has a chance to gather such a big part of the player-community as it does.

    Why not just stop over-controlling the forum like you do. why not actually allow a certain level of anarchy control the boards?
    Just state at the various forums that they are moderated at a minimum, and you take no responsobility of what we can be exposed for in the forums.

    Anarchy online, my ass. You are going to shrink that small playerbase you have to a absolute minimum with this drastic measure. You are not going to save money on this, but rather run this Project even further down the drain.

    at release you had invested what, 120 Million NOK in this project? and now you think you'll save a couple of hundred G a year with removing these boards which make the last players stay with the game?

    Get your act together people. To think about the fact that I looked forward to joining the AO community back in 1999, looong time before release, is an embarasment. That I could have misjudged Funcom that greatly. Probably it was the fact that you were Norwegian, that many of your community/ GM's were x-EQ players/guides and enemies of Verants agressive treatment of the community that clouded my mind.

    Right now I would say that Verant are the player-friendly Mega-coorperation, and you are the vicious bad wolf.


    *This IS a flame*

    shame on you, I hope you realize the great danger of your antistrategy soon.

  15. #75
    Cz:
    I won't say this is a bad move, as I don't have all the information. I like to think you guys over at FC are reasonable people (even though sometimes it seems 95% of the Rubi-Kan population thinks otherwise ) and I'm sure you have good reasons. And of course, I appreciate the effort to improve communication with the playerbase. But here's what I think will happen:

    Forcing people away to community sites will fragment the community. I am convinced that many will start posting less or stop posting altogether. For all the *****ing and moaning and flaming, this place has spirit. I'm afraid that spirit will die out very quickly.

    My first thought was, like Lilnymph's and others', to keep them open without moderation, but you have said more than once that that is not an option, so I won't ask for that. What I will ask is that you please, *please* reconsider keeping the World of Rubi-Ka and the Roleplaying forums. The people and posts in these forums have -for the most part- been very well-natured. They are a very positive element on these boards. Without them, I fear this place will become bleak, clinical and depressing. I don't particularly like that thought....
    Vanguard Mharc. Self-equipper extraordinaire no longer. I'm back!

  16. #76
    besheba, I don't agree that it's cutting off communication. Players can communicate just as well between each other on other forums. Players can communicate just as well to us through those other forums, even getting the fan sites to forward the hot issues, adding extra weight behind it. Players can still use e-mails. We at Funcom will use this to communicate more.

    Where are we cutting communication? Isn't it the same illusion Hodaka mentioned; people thining we read it all here, and expect us to, while we simply don't / can't?

    Sid Scheer, of course. I remember it now that you say it.

    No, we're not going to do that with the RP community. We intend to stay close to it, and feed it as much as possible.

    Jellobiafra, you're claiming the players will be out of sight and out of mind, seemingly assuming we will just close half the forums and spend the saved time on eating donuts. We're not. We're gonna spend that time on those other sites.

    Oh, and Customer Service issues is not a topic on the bulletin board. Check the social guidelines. Please remove it from your sig.

    Miranamoon, leaving the forums to anarchy would defy the entire purpose of having them anyway. As long as there are official AO forums, we need to have good control of them. Running with no rules is not an option.

    Mharc, if we leave those two forums open, but not others, don't you think people will just migrate into them, using at least the World of Rubi-Ka as a "general" forum?

  17. #77

    A dark, dark day.

    I don't quite know whether to interpret this as a desparate act of cost cutting or a naive belief that this will somehow benefit the AO community. Perhaps its a little of both.

    Cz, I appreciate your position as the single person responsible for coordinating community relations. I know its not an easy job, and I do think there was a lot of fat in the forums that could be trimmed.

    But I find it difficult that you don't understand that the community is what breathes life into this game. Without it, AO's days are numbered. Do you think that I continue playing AO for because I'm waiting for the next static dungeon or uber loot to appear? No, its because of the people I know and continue to meet in this game. Its because of the wonderful community.

    This action is going to disrupt and fragment our community. It will scatter us to the four winds, without any guarentee that we will ever settle on a common meeting place. How will new players become aware of where these forums are? Will there be duplication of forum services. No service in some areas? Forum competition? All is left to chance. The outcome is likely to be mixed.

    What shocks me is that you would take such a risk with our future. Your future.

    This will also sever lines of communication between Funcom and the community with regard to patch feedback, problems, suggestions.

    It is a dark day.

    I fear for the future of RubiKa.
    - Szentasha
    Leader of Unity of the Rose

    AOScripter 2.0 If you need a script, you need AOScripter!

    *** Remove Social Armor Restrictions Today !!!

  18. #78
    I can see that these forums are a ghetto filled with noise and junk (i.e. ugly and hard to maintain) but unfortunately for many players it's part of the AO gameplay experience. I see this as a major gameplay nerf, there'll now be considerably less to do centered around AO.

    Referring people to other community sites is just a cop out, players have an expectation anymore to have a "professionally" run and managed forum.
    Ionicdude - In it to win it no matter how you spin it

  19. #79

    Re: Anarchy Online Vault

    This is nothing but a blatent advertisment for your fansite.


    And if I have any questions for Funcom, I'm going to email Funcom with them, not some fansite.


    Originally posted by Rosethorn
    I completely understand Cz's point and am supporting it fully. Not just because I run a fan site, but because I run several sets of the VN Message boards.

    Finding volunteers to staff, dealing with moderator issues, dealing with poster issues, in addition to content duties, is a bear.

    The fan sites are better equipped to do this.

    Now, as for having to check 4 sites, that is hardly the truth. Find one of us you like (AO Stratics, AO Basher, AO Vault, or another smaller one) that posts news daily. We cross-report on each other, so when one gets something from a developer or has an interesting post, we link to that on our main page.

    http://aovault.ign.com
    http://www.ao-basher.com
    http://ao.stratics.com

    On the Vault Network Boards - I have added some boards to allow for anyone who wants to, to move. Here is our current set-up:

    General forum: http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=5216
    Developers forum: http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22347 (This is a brand new board and the developers will have a presence there)
    FAQ board: http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22203
    Role-playing forum: http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22344
    Storyline forum: http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22348
    Suggestions forum: http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=5243
    Atlantean trade forum: http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22345
    Rimor trade forum: http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22346
    Off-topic forum: Anarchy Lounge http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=16719

    One last thing. We currently have a weekly developer Q&A with Funcom. If you have a question you would like directly answered, email it to me at: aonews@vaultnetwork.com.

    Rose
    ======================

    blix01/spookiepants/stiffwood

  20. #80
    Originally posted by Lumin

    I have just visited, the 3 sites listed and 2 of them where in my opinion utterly crap on the msg board part. I have been to them before and didnt like them then either.

    the last one lacked content and the masses that this board has. Another problem whith those boards is that you dont get to use the name you have here. and that kinda puts you into a whole new round of "getting to know people" oh the joy.
    I'll rather spend my time on something else then.
    *is hoping Vault Boards is the one that isn't crap, LOL*

    Lumin - try registering with -Lumin-

    That's what I had to do to get my name on those boards as well. So its still you

    Also, as far as lacking content, that isn't entirely true. The weekends are usually pretty content lite, but during the week, quite a bit of actual discussion takes place. Also, Anarchy Online Vault is really trying to fill our site with content, with the recruitment of Sillirion (who ran AO-Zone for anyone who doesn't know him) and our developer specials.

    We have a weekly Q&A that addresses important issues, I just need you, the player base, to send me the questions you want answered the most.

    Rose
    Zachary Sawyer was born at 11:09 AM on September 17, 2002
    Industry Relations Coordinator - Warcry.com
    Visit AO Warcry - http://ao.warcry.com

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