No AO story? (an OOC post)

[Blyzzard]

The Anarchy Online story is a different format than any other story ever told.

The stories told by movies and plays, are presented beginning to end in a two to three hour space. Each scene brings the watcher the information.

The stories in a TV series are done episode by episode, some times the current one builds on a previous episode. Each episode is a half hour to an hour. Like the Movie/Play the scene brings the watcher information.

The stories presented in book form go chapter by chapter, each chapter bringing the reader the information.

Every other type of story the information you need to follow and understand the story is brought to you. You have to make no (that’s zero) effort, unless you count staying conscious and paying attention as an effort.

Anarchy Online is different it requires you to do something to find and follow the story. Unless you happen to be in the right place at the right time, information will not be thrown at you. You have to go looking for it. You have to figure out how the information you find fits into the story, or if it even does at all. Information is hidden in the game and in web page articles. It is not given out in one chunk at one time, it is instead given out in small pieces and is spread out over a four year time span.

Think of the story as a mystery soap opera, that you have to search for when and what channel the next episode will be on. That’s about as close an example as I can come up with. This story is that different.

So to those who say “there is no story”, * Bzzzzzzzzzzzt * Wrong! It’s just not what you’re use to.

[___________Mainspace]

Any story, regardless of it's format is poorly told if it is lost on it's audience.

[Blyzzard]

Is it the telling of the story, or the aditude of "Entertain me, and do it now!"

The series Babalon 5 took almost 2 years befor the true plot of the series started to show. It was in my opinion one of the best series on TV.

The AO story line is only 3 months old today. The plot is building, and the telling of the story is great so far.

[___________Mainspace]

Originally posted by Wyndrunneer
Is it the telling of the story, or the aditude of "Entertain me, and do it now!"

The series Babalon 5 took almost 2 years befor the true plot of the series started to show. It was in my opinion one of the best series on TV.

The AO story line is only 3 months old today. The plot is building, and the telling of the story is great so far.

1. It is the method, not the attitude. You must cater your message to the attitude of your audience. Otherwise you are not telling the right story to the right audience. That's bad storytelling. And the do it now part, well, that comes from the $12.95 charge that appears on everyone's credit card statement.

2. Agreed, Babylon 5 was very, very well done. It was good storytelling, for a different audience and format.

3. I have been involved in numerous "stories" in many formats in my time. The feeling I get from the AO "story" is the same feeling I get from watching CNN. I have never had a "story" feel like a news broadcast prior to this. If this is where fiction is leading, and it is considered good storytelling, then I want nothing to do with it. That's my opinion on the matter anyhow.

I think Buck Rodgers had a better plotline... And I still laugh at the cheese that "story" reeked of.

[MrBunny]

Originally posted by Mainspace


1. It is the method, not the attitude. You must cater your message to the attitude of your audience. Otherwise you are not telling the right story to the right audience. That's bad storytelling. And the do it now part, well, that comes from the $12.95 charge that appears on everyone's credit card statement.

2. Agreed, Babylon 5 was very, very well done. It was good storytelling, for a different audience and format.

3. I have been involved in numerous "stories" in many formats in my time. The feeling I get from the AO "story" is the same feeling I get from watching CNN. I have never had a "story" feel like a news broadcast prior to this. If this is where fiction is leading, and it is considered good storytelling, then I want nothing to do with it. That's my opinion on the matter anyhow.

I think Buck Rodgers had a better plotline... And I still laugh at the cheese that "story" reeked of.

I agree with mainspace, it has to be the method and not the attitude. It could be that the story you tell is brilliant, ingenius, and entertaining. But if it is done in a way that is not consistent or has no real pattern, or in a way that makes people feel like they are watching a slide show, its going to get very dull very fast.

Which leads me to the next point. The main difference between a escapism , interpretative, or a story form literature, and a slide show, is how immersive the theme makes you feel and how much it makes you feel connected with the story. You dont get that with a slide show or with CNN. That's one of the reasons why the great vast majority of Americans don't really care about what happens to things that happens abroad. Cause, why would they? It's not happening to them. It's all a slide show.

The unique aspect of AO, is that instead of a story they let you make a character that then has some kind of presence in the story. And most people who have that kind of feeling that they are in a world where things will happen, will want to be able to shape to some degree what happens. And although that part is probably questionable given the large playerbase, when people start leveling and they don't see anything happening... then the storyline becomes dead.

What needs to happen ? Funcom needs to enforce some kind of role playing aspect to this. But they've already messed that part up with their slogans of n00b, and ownz, and j00, and alot of crackerz speak. The only conclusion is that they had something else in mind, which I hope was better than what I had in mind.

Yah, Babylon 5 might have been brilliant. But I bet more people here know about Star Trek, than they do about Babylon 5. Why ? It took too long for things to happen on babylon 5, as while, on star trek, you constantly saw what happened when humans and their humanity came grappling with issues of humanity versus ethics or what not. Oh yah and the war scenes are nice too.

Thats what made Star Trek much more popular than Babylon 5 in regards to the eyes of the general populace.

[Blyzzard]

I'm afraid the slide show analogy just goes to show it is the additude.

Before the current 15 min max attention span generation, people would spend whole evenings going over slide shows.

Now if there isn't a special effect, action chase, shoot out, plot twist every 12.5 min it's found to be to dull.

I find this game and the way it's telling the story to be worth my $0.50 a day (average of 10 cents/hour for me).

[___________Mainspace]

Originally posted by Wyndrunneer
I'm afraid the slide show analogy just goes to show it is the additude.

Before the current 15 min max attention span generation, people would spend whole evenings going over slide shows.

Now if there isn't a special effect, action chase, shoot out, plot twist every 12.5 min it's found to be to dull.

I find this game and the way it's telling the story to be worth my $0.50 a day (average of 10 cents/hour for me).

So, if AO players were not of the 15 min max generation, the story would be great. The point is that the people who play this game are younger for the most part, and deserve a Modern story format. Thus, it's a story told in the incorrect format for the audience.

Poor storytelling. If it was a well told story, people wouldn't be asking "where's the beef?"

[Tredge]

Originally posted by Mainspace


So, if AO players were not of the 15 min max generation, the story would be great. The point is that the people who play this game are younger for the most part, and deserve a Modern story format. Thus, it's a story told in the incorrect format for the audience.

As Marie Antoinette's 30th century cousin might have said..."Let Them Play Quake"

[___________Mainspace]

Originally posted by Tredge


As Marie Antoinette's 30th century cousin might have said..."Let Them Play Quake"

I agree and disagree.

I am not of the quake generation.. I'm a bit more dated than that... I enjoy a good story told. I cannot concieve of ANY generation enjoying the method the AO story is being told in.

I do thing the l33t dOOds need to get a faster machine and go back to unreal tOOrnOm3mt and Quack. They impede RP like an electric shock to the brain every ten seconds would. However, the very foundation of the Role Playing game is interaction. Something that this "story" lacks.

So, aside from the fact that you have me laughing at the above qoute, I have to stay my point.

The story is poorly told. There are too many complaints against it, even from seasoned RPers to ignore. The method needs changing. And if I remember correctly, Funcom is actually working on that at this time.

I'm praying for a VAST improvement

[Blyzzard]

I guess you're right, a game that would have you think to enjoy a story may not be for everyone.

I'm glad they made one so that those of us who can think still, can enjoy.

As Tredge implied, Quake is still out there for the 133+ d00d5.

Just because you can't find the story doesn't mean it isn't there.

[___________Mainspace]

Originally posted by Wyndrunneer
I guess you're right, a game that would have you think to enjoy a story may not be for everyone.

I'm glad they made one so that those of us who can think still, can enjoy.

As Tredge implied, Quake is still out there for the 133+ d00d5.

Just because you can't find the story doesn't mean it isn't there.

I said it was there. I just pointed out that if it is lost on the people who are paying for it that it is poorly told.

As far as RPG's go this is horrible. You don't have to think to put the pieces of the AO puzzle together. It's spoon fed plot.

If you had to Role Play, like in any other RPG thats worth it's weight, you would have to think alot harder then you do here.

The only thing you have to think about with this "story" is why the holes in the plot are so huge. The storyline is so complex that it fits on the back of a box.

I simply cannot, for the life of me, understand what kind of fiction you have been dealing with if you think that the story here is "good"

[____________Harbodus]

To Mainspace: I agree on the majority of your points, but your logic is flawed. For a game to be a RPG, you must try to play a role. Don't go complaining about the plot and then post no ways to improve it. Then you'll say "Well I'm paying $12.95 per month , I shouldn't have to." then I say "Well, if you truly understood what it takes to run a MMORPG you would feel blessed to just have Rubi-Ka let alone an attempt at a story. Servers, storage, routers, support staff, programmers, moderators, web-designers, and god knows what else.

If you want story, help make the story. Interact with people, find other like yourself that aren't "l33+" and go to places where there is action. If you get a large enough group of guys, and notify FC people of what you may have planned, they may take interest.

So the big question is...How do you get thousands of people to feel like they're involved in a story, and have a "role" to play. You figure that out, you need to start your own RPG. Because all I've seen and heard of have failed miserably. For now I enjoy the game knowing that there is at least an attempt at a story. My last MMORPG, Ultima, didn't come close. Good day.

Harbodus
Level 27 MP RK1

[____________Sllaagor]

I, like Harbodus, agree with many of your points, but I also agree your logic is flawed.

Originally posted by Mainspace

I simply cannot, for the life of me, understand what kind of fiction you have been dealing with if you think that the story here is "good"

It's better than nothing. Which is what every other MMORPG has.

I have dealt with many kinds of fiction every since I learned how to read. Tell me, what stories are not "spoon-fed plots"? There are only so many stories in the human experience. It's inevitable that themes get repeated, especially when there are so few that actually capture the human element. Well, let's list a few:

"He is the ONE who is prophesized to save us." - The Bible, Star Wars, Dune, the Matrix, to name a few of many.

"Boy meets girl ... <insert probable events that occur after that>" - More stories and movies than I care to count.

"The evil empire must be brought to its knees!" - AO, Star Wars, etc.

Of course there are more, but not many!

Most stories just take one of more of the most common themes and slap them together, file off the serial numbers, change the dialog a little, and step back and watch the money roll in.

Remember, this is an MMORPG, not an RPG. RPG games, are by their very nature, single player. That way a story can be tailored and shaped around a single player's experience. (Obviously I am not speaking of pen-and-paper RPing, with dice and people sitting around a table)

If you want an RPG, go play one of the Final Fantasies (they're all the same IMO, just better graphics on the newer ones)

However, the very foundation of the Role Playing game is interaction. Something that this "story" lacks.

Can't argue with you too much there ... but I feel that the players are as much to blame as FC. I see little attempted interaction involving the story when I am in-game. I see alot of people simply teaming up and monster-bashing. Which is ok. As long as later they don't turn around and say "we have no recourse!"

Of course, I see interaction too ... player run events, press releases I saw first in the boards getting reported in the Rubi-Ka Times ...

It's a quandary. That's why I plan to level quickly, and apply to be an ARK. I think that is probably the way I can help the most. Maybe then I can get inside a little bit, see the complete storyline, maybe set up some events that have meaning within that context.

Or maybe I'll just go bash some monsters.

Thanks for listening!

- Sllaagor
Clan - Atrox Enforcer

[___________Mainspace]

Originally posted by Sllaagor

It's better than nothing. Which is what every other MMORPG has.

I do agree with this. Fully. However, I find that it's a bit depresing to see that as fact for a gaming genre that has grown out of the text based experieces of MUDs.

Originally posted by Sllaagor
Remember, this is an MMORPG, not an RPG. RPG games, are by their very nature, single player. That way a story can be tailored and shaped around a single player's experience. (Obviously I am not speaking of pen-and-paper RPing, with dice and people sitting around a table)

If you want an RPG, go play one of the Final Fantasies (they're all the same IMO, just better graphics on the newer ones)

I have never seen a single player game noteworthy of being called an RPG. Ever. They require too much interaction. What you are reffering to is the unforunate end of the RPG being hashed up and marketed. True RPGs are hard to find these days. And yes, this is an MMORPG. If you look closely at that, the three last letters are RPG. This is not an RPG in it's current state. It's a MMOG with some backstory. Just like all the rest of them out there.

Originally posted by Sllaagor
Can't argue with you too much there ... but I feel that the players are as much to blame as FC. I see little attempted interaction involving the story when I am in-game. I see alot of people simply teaming up and monster-bashing. Which is ok. As long as later they don't turn around and say "we have no recourse!"

First off, let me say now that I love AO. I wouldn't be playing it otherwise. With that said...

In order to play a convincing "role" you need to be in an environment that supports that "role". All of the code in AO is to support game mechanics, not RP. If something as simple as adding pen and paper as player usable (player written text) items would happen, the whole fundamental basis of RP in AO would skyrocket. But so far we have yet to see anything like that happen. Honestly, we are pretty far into the projected four year timespan for that kind of thing to be added at this point. So I don't expect it.

Any RP element at this point will be a ackward attempt at best. If you want to see what I am talking about, try to convince someone asking you for a buff that they are speaking nonsense. you can blame the players all you want, but the code is Funcom, and in the end the blame rests on the creators for the success or failure of the product.

Ever seen a bad movie? Did you blame the audience for it's failure? This is very much the same thing.

[___________Mainspace]

Originally posted by Harbodus
To Mainspace: I agree on the majority of your points, but your logic is flawed. For a game to be a RPG, you must try to play a role. Don't go complaining about the plot and then post no ways to improve it. Then you'll say "Well I'm paying $12.95 per month , I shouldn't have to." then I say "Well, if you truly understood what it takes to run a MMORPG you would feel blessed to just have Rubi-Ka let alone an attempt at a story. Servers, storage, routers, support staff, programmers, moderators, web-designers, and god knows what else.

Actually, I pay $26.00 a month. But I was reffering to the fact that people are complaining because they are paying for a product. If they cannot finacially support the story, they should have never started thinking about it in the first place. We are not talking about a group of RPers wanting to start a MUD, we are talking about a large software business who produce sellable products. If they cannot deliver what was advertised, then they shouldn't plan to stick their hands in the hornets nest.

As for posting solutions, I have posted numerous small code additions that would smooth the gears of RP on this world, along with a million other posters who have asked for similar things. It has become quite obvious that the changes we have all asked for are not in planning. I'ts not worth your time to post something more than once, and it is certainly not worth mine.

Originally posted by Harbodus
If you want story, help make the story. Interact with people, find other like yourself that aren't "l33+" and go to places where there is action. If you get a large enough group of guys, and notify FC people of what you may have planned, they may take interest.

I agree with points here, and I disagree with points here. It would be great if players would take more of an active role in the story by filling the subplot gap, but Funcom has already put in writing that they will not support any player run events that involve or affect the larger picture. That being the case, no small event will ever hold the weight it should to actually fill a role in any worthwile manner.

I would love to be surrounded by player driven plots and events. But the alure to do so just isn't there for most.

Originally posted by Harbodus
So the big question is...How do you get thousands of people to feel like they're involved in a story, and have a "role" to play. You figure that out, you need to start your own RPG. Because all I've seen and heard of have failed miserably. For now I enjoy the game knowing that there is at least an attempt at a story. My last MMORPG, Ultima, didn't come close. Good day.

The solution is alot easier than people would think. It's all in the foudation of the system. Take away the numbers game (for the most part) and code your RPG with as much support as possible for anything that provides interaction (like pen and paper) between players and let them figure out how to move the story forward. In an enviroment like this the storyteller should play a passive role, subtely affecting things rather than spoon feeding the story, one bite at a time to the masses.

so far I have been fed a bite of Manteez, Pumkinhead, Cyborg, Amnesty, And I can already see the next bite of war comming... Ya know what? my mouth is closed.

[____________Harbodus]

...your post is very informative and well thought out. Since I'm a newb still to this board and game, I haven't experienced your frustration. My basic plan is to (A.) Level my character (B.) Try to meet people that could be interested in RPing and are good people and (C.) Have fun.

I have already met a bunch of cool peeps, and I've leveled to 33 (MP). I'm totally hooked at this point (and have gotten some friends hooked too, hell, my friend this weekend just started and I don't think he took a break except to eat, sleep, and s#1+ ) Anyways I don't really have much of a point here, I say don't quit cause ya seem like a cool guy that has the right intentions for this game. Unfortunately, most true RP'ers are getting screwed. Anyways, try to have fun...If ya can't, take care Mainspace...maybe someday there will be a true MMORPG to suit you.

Harbodus

[___________Mainspace]

Originally posted by Harbodus
...your post is very informative and well thought out. Since I'm a newb still to this board and game, I haven't experienced your frustration. My basic plan is to (A.) Level my character (B.) Try to meet people that could be interested in RPing and are good people and (C.) Have fun.

I have already met a bunch of cool peeps, and I've leveled to 33 (MP). I'm totally hooked at this point (and have gotten some friends hooked too, hell, my friend this weekend just started and I don't think he took a break except to eat, sleep, and s#1+ ) Anyways I don't really have much of a point here, I say don't quit cause ya seem like a cool guy that has the right intentions for this game. Unfortunately, most true RP'ers are getting screwed. Anyways, try to have fun...If ya can't, take care Mainspace...maybe someday there will be a true MMORPG to suit you.

Harbodus

Oh, I'm not quiting man, I think this game rocks. As far as a MUD enviroment goes, this game is top notch. It just lacks in the Story/RP dept. IMO. But I'ts not the easy to get rid of me

[___________Chagidiel]

Wyndrunner:

I said the exact same thing about 2 months ago. Though now I come to the conclusion that I was wrong, and here´s why:

Sure, I can give you that there IS a story, but:
its in an all too slow pace. We ARE the intrenet generation, and in order to keep up intrest from the broad majority, there has to be a much faster pace then we have seen so far.
If we do not notice a story ever other time (or so) we start AO, then we might as well be without a story.
This since FC has made a big deal of this story, so to live up to expactations the story has to be in focus quite often. Alas, that is not the case now.


Bad story telling:
Well, I and many with me has pointed out all over these boards why this is but...Ill give it a finall try.

To slow pace(again) You can not drop a bomb on us(litterary), then let nothing happend for a month...thats bad story telling

You can not throw pumpkinheads (and thats a rather weak story allready there) at us, let us (possibley) catch the guy reposnible, and then do nothing off it...thats bad storytelling.

You can not have a long amnesty just to remove it as if it never were tyhere in the first place. While this could happend in real life, it is such an anticlimax in a story that I just dont find words for it.

Assasinations and trial, but no closeure whatsoever. That whole situation just screams "bad story telling".

What ever happend to that veihacal OmniTek caputered, or the scientist that were caputerd...or the mutants that attacked us, or the clones that attacked us, or the cyborgs that attacked us...
And there you have a couple of rather repetetive story fractions, which all have one thing in common...no cloesure
and with no cloessure, you have: Bad story telling.



I came to the conclusion that while the people in FC might be good story tellers, for an inactive audiance (and mind you, thats a though thing, so my complimants to the FC staff) they doesnt seem that good at an interactive audiance...perticulary not at such an big audience as here.

[Blyzzard]

Funcom is going for a realism feel to the story. Unlike a Columbo episode where the crime, investigation, and arrest of the guilty person take place inside an hour, the story is moving at a realistic pace.

A real life investigation of a bombing takes weeks to come to definite conclusions. A real life political confrontation can be over in hours, or drag on for years. Military actions are usually done when there are no other options that are feasible.

The storyline is building at a rate comparable to what it would move at if it were happening in real life.

Not every headline that comes across the newspapers is connected, like wise not every happening in the story is connected to the others. There may or may not be any connection between the Pumpkin Heads, The Dust Brigade, and the Cyborgs.

Like the events of real life, not every event in game will effect or involve me. But like the events of the day in real life, it gives us that follow the news something to think about, something to talk about, and something to react to.

[Laeni]

One of the problems (and it's been mentioned before) is that anytime Funcom does try to run a story event, it gets spoiled by children who keep shouting out of character remarks and attacking everyone in sight.

If people don't want to roleplay that's fine but they don't have the right to spoil a roleplaying event for those who DO want to roleplay.

And until Funcom takes the bull by the horns and banish those spoiled brats who refuse to play along (ie by sending them out of the zone that the event is taking place in and not allowing them back in until they learn to behave) they are not going to be able to have a successful interactive event.

So far they seem to be paralyzed by the brats' warcry of "I'm paying to play this game so I should get to do what I waaaant!"

Well no, no you don't.

I realize that events are only ONE aspect of the storyline but I think they are an important aspect.