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Thread: Pvp Weapon standard for non pvp class

  1. #1

    Pvp Weapon standard for non pvp class

    Any idea for guys that have a class that is not a Pvp class but wanna do some pvp and fight ?

  2. #2
    i read that many ppl use X-3...

    someone Manex or mcs

    and a lot of people Itaka...

    other good weap setup ?


    and some pistol good anywhere ?

  3. #3
    Every class can be a PvP class. Just some tend to be better suited than others.
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  4. #4
    Rifle is always an easy/reliable type to use. Only one attack skill and one secondary skill so it's easy to implant. Aimed Shot requirements are very low as specials go, and rifles are amazingly easy to buff on (Unexpected Attack +120 rifle, Take The Shot +130 Aimed Shot, 132 Wrangle). UA is easy to get, so getting a gun that is 75% selfbuffed and 100% with UA is a good idea, if the UA just gets you to the 100% effective status.

    Your two real rifle choices are Caterwaul and X-3.

    Caterwaul has low recharge time, so it attacks faster than X-3 when your init isn't too high. It also recharges AS fast. It has a week crit though.

    X-3 is a little slower, and the AS doesn't recharge as fast, but the regular damage done is higher and the crit beats the butt off of Caterwaul. (X-3 is my favorite for ~lvl75 PvP, can get ranged init high with TIM Scope, fires fast, high damage and crits like a mother).

    Unless you're planning to debuff/heal exclusively, I find that damage output is the most important thing you can have. Do not skimp on a gun because you want to put in nanoskill implants for a better nano (unless the nano is ultra-important) If you have NCU, HP/AC/everthing else can be covered by buffs.
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  5. #5
    ok thk for reply

    Im afraid that i see always same weapon for pvp :/

  6. #6
    Originally posted by genozzolo
    ok thk for reply

    Im afraid that i see always same weapon for pvp :/
    Very much so. Funcom created hundreds of weapons, but made a very very select few far superior to everything else... so it makes sense that everyone will use those.

    You didn't mention what prof you play... it could help make some descisions. I personally swear by my Manex. It's the best weapon I've ever used, and I've used quite a few. Attacks at fine speed once you hit 900+ inits, as long as you go full defense. But if you really are a 'non pvp class' then full defense isn't going to help you. Stick with full offense and hope that you can deal enough damage to keep up with the big boys... non-pvp classes are usually that way because they were never given the defensive capabilities to handle the offensive capabilities that everyone else pushes around.
    <Cheeze|Work> i told iwi to start her own guild
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  7. #7

    Re: Pvp Weapon standard for non pvp class

    Originally posted by genozzolo
    Any idea for guys that have a class that is not a Pvp class but wanna do some pvp and fight ?

    These are the kind of people who PISS me off the most.


    Class that is NOT a pvp class but wants to pvp.


    Does that not sound 'Stupid'.

    Okay, take an ACTIVE & Effective part in pvp. But able to take on anyone, or almost anyone, such as a doctor, fixer, trader. Who all in any right minded person, doesnt sound like a fighting class.

    Nurse, Technician, Shop keeper.

    Soldier.

    Hmmmm

    What could a Soldier be...I just cant think about it.

    Guns with Aimedshot seem to be pretty good vs anyway when you can take about 40% hp away.

    Manex is proving to be very good, VERY VERY Good as a Crat and Trader. Infact Im sure a trader can use a manex more effectively than a fixer.

    You get a tim scope for that speed, nice bursts. Hell I get hit for over 1k four times in a row with that thing, with a 40% burst to top it off.

    Ofcourse, in 3 months or so you will have so kinda new gun that does EQB damage, and everyone will want to nerf it so :|.

  8. #8
    Now you are getting in the spirit of it Ri! Just a little more "Umph!" and you will have the perfect flame! I know you have it in you
    Bad Fixer
    Non Illegitimus Carborundum Est!

  9. #9
    D:

    You sure? Maybe if I add more caps and !!!!!!!!!!!!111111's

  10. #10
    Riokou...

    Havent you figured this out yet?
    AO is a freeking game and are in no way a mirror of rl, as you seems to belive when it come to professions name.
    In this game all professions are combatprofessions, they have different ways of dealing dmg and different ways of defending themselves, but i have not to this day seen any official statement that <insert profession> and <insert profession> should be "support" profession and dont stand a freeking chanse in PvP.

    What do you think about Engie i.e?
    Take a guy that can buildt his own warmachine - he should perform pretty well in PvP. Think about it.... an Enfo agains a superior machine designed and buildt by a person whith education and intel... should be the "machine of doom" in a fight with an enfo dont you think...?

    Now go crawl back into your cave, there wont be any enfos around in year 26k anyway...

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Fryli
    Riokou...

    Havent you figured this out yet?
    AO is a freeking game and are in no way a mirror of rl, as you seems to belive when it come to professions name.
    In this game all professions are combatprofessions, they have different ways of dealing dmg and different ways of defending themselves, but i have not to this day seen any official statement that <insert profession> and <insert profession> should be "support" profession and dont stand a freeking chanse in PvP.

    What do you think about Engie i.e?
    Take a guy that can buildt his own warmachine - he should perform pretty well in PvP. Think about it.... an Enfo agains a superior machine designed and buildt by a person whith education and intel... should be the "machine of doom" in a fight with an enfo dont you think...?

    Now go crawl back into your cave, there wont be any enfos around in year 26k anyway...
    Your smokin something.
    You better be lucky im in the middle of a mission change because I would so tear you apart.

    I DONT THINK every proffesion was intended to 'pvp' YES PLAYER VS PLAYER as good as they do now.

    Your stupid idea of 'In this game all professions are combatprofessions' Lol? did you not READ My post? Are you realyl that Stupid.

    ****ing Doctor loser, I hope they freaking gimp your weapon functions.


    I am SO tired, so SICK and tired of whiners, Nerf mongers and people who complain they cant pvp when they made another proff that noway sounds combatish.
    more to come.


    What Do I think about engineers?

    Yes this is a game, And melee weapons?
    This was a SCI-FI game last time I played, Theres plenty of non projectile weapons in this genre.
    Grrrrr
    Make the bot so uber, and give the Engineer himself alto of defensive buffs. Do not make the ENGINEER able to do any sort of damage that is enough to kill a person without the robot.

    Fix pet pathing, and change the bots.


    OH! And if i wanted other people to have an equal chance id play QUAKE3 or UT2k

    Doctor killing people. lol. Seriously.
    Stupid.

    Yeah I played doctor, I heal people.
    Thats why I made a doctor.
    If I wanted to be a ****ing train killing people with a bit of ease and skill, Enforcer. So I made one.

    So you say everyone should do damage?

    WELL GIVE ME HEALS.
    Stop thinking about yourself and your ****ing 'give everyone the cabability to solo/pvp ****'

    Hoooooooooly **** you got me going now with the stars ************.
    If everyone should have the same chance, WHY HAVE PROFFESIONS?


    Think about what your saying.

    Big enough flame For ya?





    Ps. Lol.
    when was the last time you visited the Char creation, or conned yourself and looked at the NAME of you ****NIG proffesions.

    Its a game yes, but your still a doctor.


    And 'enforce'(r) this. /flip!
    Last edited by Rioko; Jan 17th, 2003 at 13:48:06.

  12. #12

    Re: Re: Pvp Weapon standard for non pvp class

    Originally posted by Riokou



    These are the kind of people who PISS me off the most.


    Class that is NOT a pvp class but wants to pvp.


    Does that not sound 'Stupid'.

    Okay, take an ACTIVE & Effective part in pvp. But able to take on anyone, or almost anyone, such as a doctor, fixer, trader. Who all in any right minded person, doesnt sound like a fighting class.

    Nurse, Technician, Shop keeper.

    Soldier.

    Hmmmm

    What could a Soldier be...I just cant think about it.

    Guns with Aimedshot seem to be pretty good vs anyway when you can take about 40% hp away.

    Manex is proving to be very good, VERY VERY Good as a Crat and Trader. Infact Im sure a trader can use a manex more effectively than a fixer.

    You get a tim scope for that speed, nice bursts. Hell I get hit for over 1k four times in a row with that thing, with a 40% burst to top it off.

    Ofcourse, in 3 months or so you will have so kinda new gun that does EQB damage, and everyone will want to nerf it so :|.
    Riokou, Don't you have any respect for other people AT ALL? You simply don't run around calling people STUPID and abuse them in every way. I write this after reading several of your posts, it's not just a reply to THIS PARTICULAR POST, and don't make it sound like it is. Get your act together.

  13. #13

    Re: Re: Pvp Weapon standard for non pvp class

    Originally posted by Riokou

    These are the kind of people who PISS me off the most.


    Class that is NOT a pvp class but wants to pvp.


    Does that not sound 'Stupid'.
    No more stupid than a barbarian wielding an insect part "realistically" outdamaging ANYONE... let that sink in... ANYONE... with ANY GUN... even a PELLET GUN...

    As my kindergarten teacher used to say "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight."

    Now either 1) Reason your way out of this conundrum (any attempt should be downright hilarious) OR 2) Agree that arguments based on appeals to "realism" have no place in this game whatsoever and stop the broken record on this.

  14. #14
    posted by Riokou

    I am SO tired, so SICK and tired of whiners, Nerf mongers
    So far, there is exactly one person in this thread that is whining and talking about wanting nerfs. That person is named Riokou.

    This thread was a very simple one where someone was asking for advice on weapon selection. You highjacked it and took the tone in a negative direction.
    Heals - they're not just for tradeskills anymore
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  15. #15
    Like Fryli rightly pointed out, all professions in this game are combatprofessions. You might compare each profession with an army equvalent. A medic with good rifle skill is not a civilian doctor but a combat medic, an engineer is a combat engineer, etc. Ofcourse as to combat medics being the most dangerous, durable profession in a firefight is somewhat of a puzzle

    As to manex being superb in pvp...not really, it lacks range and fast recycling specials to be real top notch. The best rifles will serve you better with supreme range and deadly AS (inbalanced good special IMO).
    Last edited by Seraphael; Jan 17th, 2003 at 18:48:58.
    Seraphael - 200 fixer
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  16. #16
    I'd have to say that it depends on what type of PvP you want to engage in.

    If you want to do mass PvP and can get your AS skill to 900 or higher, and don't mind gimping PvM a bit, get a Caterwaul. For mass PvP you want long range (such as from a rifle) and a good special that cycles fast (AS on a Caterwaul). The trick with a Caterwaul is to get a TTS buff and a UA buff, and stay at very long range - back up if the enemies start getting too close.

    For duelling, I'd have to suggest a manex.

    Unrelated to thread: Riokou is just someone I've written off as the idiot of the PvP village, and is very close to being the first-ever on my Ignore list for the forums.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
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  17. #17
    /me applauds Rioku I knew you could do it! Bruce Lee would be so proud *sniff*.

    Sadly I still have to disagree until docs get xp for healing people, traders get xp for trading crap, engies get xp for building crap, and fixer get xp for spamming the boards every profession is a combat profession. Oh and if you are a casting class use an X-3 or Caterwaul since the rifle implants dont interfere with nano as badly
    Bad Fixer
    Non Illegitimus Carborundum Est!

  18. #18
    Originally posted by Fryli
    Riokou...

    Havent you figured this out yet?
    AO is a freeking game and are in no way a mirror of rl, as you seems to belive when it come to professions name.
    In this game all professions are combatprofessions, they have different ways of dealing dmg and different ways of defending themselves, but i have not to this day seen any official statement that <insert profession> and <insert profession> should be "support" profession and dont stand a freeking chanse in PvP.

    What do you think about Engie i.e?
    Take a guy that can buildt his own warmachine - he should perform pretty well in PvP. Think about it.... an Enfo agains a superior machine designed and buildt by a person whith education and intel... should be the "machine of doom" in a fight with an enfo dont you think...?

    Now go crawl back into your cave, there wont be any enfos around in year 26k anyway...
    the problem some people have fryli, is that classes with weak weapon skills, and little to none weapon skill buffs, are wanting to compete on the same level of offensive power as classes that are based purely on offense and defense.

    traders and docs and fixers think, and want.. to do as much damage as a soldier enforcer or MA offensivly AND have whatever thier good at such as healing, tradeskills, or whatnot.

    the game is setup so that proffesions based around tradeskills or healing, can with some effort, get close to the level of damage output as proffesions based only on damage dealing and defense.

    whereas a soldier like myself can never have the tradeskills to build a virul triumvirate egg, or complete heal a team no matter how much efforr i put into it.

    i hope you see my point.. a more clear way but less logical would be to say

    "traders can own me in pvp, and outdamage me in pvm,
    I want all green tradeskills just like them to even the score"


    can you honestly say that you beleive your doctor is "supposed" to do more damage then a soldier with a range weapon? it doesn't relaly happen but there are alot that come close. considering we dont have the entire doctor line of nano's and items.. thats not a bad deal for docs.

    if a trader is supposed to be a badass pvp player.. why the green tradeskill bar and blue weapon skill bar? why the tradeskill buffs?

    if you ignore the profession descriptions that everyone likes to bring up and just LOOK at the green/blue skills and the buffs your profession uses, it is CLEAR as day that some professions are meant to do more damge then others.

    soldier is the best example. EVERY single one of our buffs corresponds directly and only, to offensive and defensive power. we have no tradeskill buffs, no outside heals.. everythign is based around dealing damage and taking it.

    then you look at docs and traders, greenish tradeskills/nanos (compared to sol) they have buffs based on tradeskills and specialsed heals to keep "others" alive. yet they are on a higher tier of pvp ownage then soldiers : )


    im not calling nerf just pointing out some stuff and giving my point of view.. basically in AO you can have your cake and eat it too.
    Last edited by Nothinman; Jan 17th, 2003 at 20:33:44.
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  19. #19
    Originally posted by Riokou

    Your smokin something.
    You better be lucky im in the middle of a mission change because I would so tear you apart.
    How can you even imagine to do that? I'm a doc remember...


    I DONT THINK every proffesion was intended to 'pvp' YES PLAYER VS PLAYER as good as they do now.
    Well i think you are wrong. Some was i.e intended to be the nemesis of other professions like MA being nemesis of NT. (This is the other way around atm tho...)


    Your stupid idea of 'In this game all professions are combatprofessions' Lol? did you not READ My post? Are you realyl that Stupid.
    It's not my "stupid" idea, it was actually intended that all professions should be able to solo to lvl 200 thus making them all combatprofessions. There have never been any description about doc's not being able to kill stuff, infact the description says: "The Doctor is the master of keeping people alive, but can also turn his knowledge of living tissue into a deadly weapon"
    I cant read anywhere that FC intended doc's to roll over dead facing other professions in PvP.


    ****ing Doctor loser, I hope they freaking gimp your weapon functions.
    ..................


    I am SO tired, so SICK and tired of whiners, Nerf mongers and people who complain they cant pvp when they made another proff that noway sounds combatish.
    more to come.
    Hmm... so you are telling us that you are sick of yourself? After all we just have to open a cpl treads here on the BB to include you in the "club" of whiners that want other professions nerfed.

    Profession dont sound combatish??? Well... if you put it that way...my response is... wtf is a Enfo... in year 26k...


    What Do I think about engineers?

    Yes this is a game, And melee weapons?
    This was a SCI-FI game last time I played, Theres plenty of non projectile weapons in this genre.
    Grrrrr
    Make the bot so uber, and give the Engineer himself alto of defensive buffs. Do not make the ENGINEER able to do any sort of damage that is enough to kill a person without the robot.

    Fix pet pathing, and change the bots.

    So you are telling us that an engie with his high intell, higly skilled hands (wich can buildt a warmachine of his own) have no clue when it comes to picking up a gun and shoot with it?

    Me on the other hand think he should, but he would prolly never be as skilled as other professions that train more using weapons.


    OH! And if i wanted other people to have an equal chance id play QUAKE3 or UT2k
    So why dont you? seems like AO's way of involving all professions in PvP and PvM dont fit your way of thinking and playing.

    Doctor killing people. lol. Seriously.
    Stupid.

    I have just one reply tho this: Biological warfare


    Yeah I played doctor, I heal people.
    Thats why I made a doctor.
    Yea you might did... Me on the other hand made a doc to kill ppl, after all that was what AO was envisioned to be about... A war between 2 faction where i could partisipate as a doc in healing and killing other players in a viritual world.


    If I wanted to be a ****ing train killing people with a bit of ease and skill, Enforcer. So I made one.
    Welcome back to ingame reality... wont coment about your skill tho... but it seems like other enfos are doing pretty good...


    So you say everyone should do damage?

    WELL GIVE ME HEALS.
    Stop thinking about yourself and your ****ing 'give everyone the cabability to solo/pvp ****'

    Yea, everyone have always had the ability do do damage.
    All professions have different ways of dealing dmg, and protecting themselves. Some professions deal dmg better then others... some professions defend themselves better then others.
    Not all professions are equal to other professions, i.e NT's kill Fixers with easy thus making them the nemesis of Fixers. ( i dont say i like it this way tho).
    The diversity between professions make the game more challenging and at the end more fun. For the record i dont claim the game is balanced, but FC are sort of working their way... even tho i dont like this "rock/paper" stuff...


    Hoooooooooly **** you got me going now with the stars ************.
    If everyone should have the same chance, WHY HAVE PROFFESIONS?
    I have a better question for you, why have more then 2-3 professions. Because this is what it would end up with if you could deside... omg that would be a fun game... Why dont you go back and play QUAKE3 or UT2k, seems like u like those better.


    Think about what your saying.
    I do, I do... you migh wanna take you own advice tho...


    Big enough flame For ya?
    Go ahead...


    Ps. Lol.
    when was the last time you visited the Char creation, or conned yourself and looked at the NAME of you ****NIG proffesions.
    Maybe you should take your own advice again... frankly i only read about enfos(or theyr like)in history books... when they lived in caves... and i sure cant envision seeing them running around with a staff or a beam in year 26k...


    Its a game yes, but your still a doctor.
    Yea, and as the description of my profession tells me: A doc that can turn my knowledge of living tissue into a deadly weapons.


    And 'enforce'(r) this. /flip!
    Yea, you are prolly good at it...

  20. #20
    Nothin, you at least have a fairly consistent argument about damage dealing, in that the damage balance should consider side abilities as a matter of game design... but I can address it, in the specific sense, in the following way:

    In the case of Doctors, every single solitary profession in the game can get the same or better weapons skills based on IP and implants, with the possible exceptions of MA and Shotgun in the case of the "nuker" profs. We have dark blue ranged init, dark blue evades, too. And all our specials are dark blue 3/level. Why do you think people only complain about PvP Doctors who are over level 170? Because prior to that we don't have enough IP to max our dark blue init and weapon and evade skills, and so we're wimps compared to tank profs. Do you know why so many Docs go to title 4 without putting IP in a weapon? Because they can't afford the IP

    If you think Doctors do too much damage with a given weapon... you can switch to the exact same weapon for the same number of IP, or fewer, and - almost regardless of what profession you are - use it at least as well, and probably better.

    If we're so overpoweringly deadly with our ithacas or our X-3s or our Caterwauls, how come I don't see you using one?

    Oh yeah... because you actually do outdamage us with your assault rifles.

    What the real problem is, is that people see Doctors generating enough damage over the course of several minutes time to kill them, while a still being defensively powerful enough to survive. People want to win, and they don't feel that they can against a Doctor.

    That's what I think is the important part, the psychological impact - it's demoralizing to fight a Doctor, because they debuff your attack speed and make you feel somewhat helpless, and because Doctors are healers, you don't feel like it was fair because - even if they're low or out of nano at the end of a fight, you can't see that... but you can see that they are high, or full, on hitpoints.

    There's also a psychological side to AS, since it often generates big damage numbers (I noted that it's a similar phenomenon to the EQB issue in another thread) and many Doctors favor AS weapons for PvP. To a lesser extent this would cover the Manex, as it's also capable of generating relatively big numbers.

    It's also the psychological side to Trader debuffs, or NT blinds and area nukes, and grid armor and area snares, and the EQB, that cause these complaints. The debuffs, blinds, and snares make people feel helpless, grid armor makes people feel like they're helpless, and area nukes and the EQB feel like unstoppable, undefendable "death from above."

    Game balance in general - treating it like a game and looking somwhat objectively at things - is a good topic for discussion. But trying to compare it to RL isn't.

    I mean really... you'd think that in the 300th century, where miniturized plasma cannons can be bought in the corner store, you wouldn't think that the most damaging weapon to be found would be a hacked-off hunk of a mutated giant insect. Or that one of the most feared warriors in the galaxy would be a genderless barbarian setting himself on fire while he/she/it charges around with a run speed faster than an aircraft swinging that bug's leg.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

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