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Thread: Rebuildin' Tir today, for a less laggier and safer tomarrow!

  1. #1

    Rebuildin' Tir today, for a less laggier and safer tomarrow!

    In the city of tir there are 3 areas of lag. I'll start with arena.

    1. Arena
    -Placement
    When it comes to architecure, don't hire the animals. This arena was the worst placed thing i have ever seen. It's small width and length makes it extremely prone to lag;

    Think of the box-shaped arena it is, fly up with a yalm and look down on it. Both the southeast and southwest parts of it are engulfed in lag by the people standing on the line or sitting on the arch, simply going afk, looking for buffs, waiting to gank, looking for duels - at times this is VERY populated, and lag is extremely bad that people don't even bother fighting sometimes. The North parts arent even any better. People say 'go to the back, less lag' but the fight drags on further than 1 meter of range for some profs. The Northwest part is lagged by people pulling missions from the mission terminals and, most of the time this is often, PLUS the people standing at the subway mission entrance can sometimes be viewed creating a barrage of lag. The northeast part is somewhat less laggier, it does get lagged by the people on the way to the superior general store and this is often as many dont know about the southern superior general store in tir.

    The solution to this would be to expand the city of tir, or kick out a few of those 'useless' areas in the NE most part of tir, such as the former tir grid area, and hell, we don't need that 'karsten klikk's hangout' and miir shop. I'm sure we'd all prefer a better arena over that stuff. It might require overlapping the city's rectangular look, but who cares. Old athen's been in ruins for how long now?

    -Zoning
    And there's one thing that pisses off everyone no matter how good your computer is, it's the fact there is 3 zones RIGHT next to the damn arena which stops counterganking with the ease to run away. Also no duel is considered 'good' if someone just runs to zone because they can.

    -Suppression
    Not to mention the suppression is still borked, people use the 75% suppression exploit to heal up and stop themselves from recieving hostile nanos or specials damage. This is a problem in camelot too, and is eliminating team pvp from everywhere except NW zones which has the disgrace period - which also should be implemented in every pvp zone. This bug has been reported NUMEROUS times and nothing is being done about it, atleast tell us if its intended, but if you are being attacked in 75% suppression, releasing combat will make the user of roots, nukes, debuffs, and specials unable to fire them. People with HoTs or trying to run away after a gank or two eat this up like candy and then make up some story as to why its 'not an exploit.' Another thing is that with specials recharges people will only enter combat to use those specials and keep out of combat until they recharge, thus the person attacking is forced to release too.

    -NPCs
    The guards that get pulled there NEED to be fixed. I understand tir is a clan city, but the arena is for pvp, and pvp includes everyone. It's ridiculous when an omni friend of mine comes to tir for a duel or a chat and some roleplayer idiot trains a mob shouting fictional babble that kills them instantly. If this is a multiplayer game that requires interaction between people i can tell you that not doing anything about mobs like Field Commander Wickham is only creating a communication block and giving people a bad day. 'Reporting' these issues is almost futile as either the ARK doesnt respond and or yells at you for petitioning with 'im stuck', or they say 'we're on it' and nothing ever happens!! Make the guards have a scripted patrolling range, and a 'crowd control' style method that warps them back to their original position like a 'rubber band' effect when it comes to leaving their area.

    -Size
    The fact this thing is a damn cage is very disadvantaging to professions who rely on their roots. It would be nice if this was expanded a bit in size, it would also prevent people from reaching the back of the arena from the beginning of 0% suppression by means of ganking. It is approximately 38-40m meters in circumference meaning rifle users can still street sweep the place.

    -Reputation
    Making these fixes would drastically improve tir arena. As it is in the RK1 pvp'ing community, arenas are looked at in two ways. There is the omni ent arena which is considered 'civil' because you can't just waltz right in undetected, you have to use a button, and its much larger as well as no lag surrounding it. There's not many zones close by either, and you have to run a distance to do so. Tir arena is considered the epicenter of lag, contreversy, personal forum flame threads, whining, ganking etc.

    -One more! View bugs.
    There seems to be a view/range bug here, even having view distance and char sight to fully maxed can make you lose sight, LOS, aggro and firing ability if you move out a certain distance.

    2. Fair Trade
    -Shop
    Since launch, this has been a HUGE problem. Characters used to have to create chars over again because their other ones were stuck in shops for days. Thankfully this doesnt happen anymore, but going full graphics on a decent computer with mild char view is a linkdeath waiting to happen. I don't even look for groups there anymore on my alt because that place is just a ticking lag bomb. The shop is visited by so many people, high levels and low levels, it takes several seconds of standing like an idiot in the doorway to zone in as well.
    -Save/reclaim/bank
    Most high level players use backyards for banks, but being that fair trade is DOMINANTLY a congregation for low levels and people new to the game, these 3 terminals are used extensively still, people go afk here too. Now, there is a general store at the SW corner of tir. If i want to get there fast, i could cut through the middle and make my way there right? Nope. Gotta go around, because of the amount of people hanging out at this place combined with the other 'landmarks' of this area. Same with the west gate. You have to practically get in your yalm and cut corners over the water if you want to avoid lag.
    -Tents/mission terminals
    Some people sit here to be cool, some people sit here to find groups, hell some people sit here to 'set up shop' and spam the shopping channel but combined with the amount of people hoarding the mission terminals, its a nightmare! this is indeed the worst part of fair trade.

    3. The Grid (most dreadful topic!)
    The original grid spot was always bad, yeah, but most clanners will tell you they like the original grid better than the place it is in now. An accurate description of a grid-in now is a 'non-laggy' landing, but i grid in to tir only to go to the city. So i basically have to blitz through the 5,000 people that are LFG, on the way to the grid, going afk there, waiting to meet someone, pulling missions, saving, reclaiming, banking, going linkdead hell your game your name it's just the worst possible place it could ever be put in. What needs to be done is something similar to meetmedere, the grid drop is significantly farther away than the grid terminal in that zone. A suggestion might be putting NOTHING but the grid terminal outside of the city's south gate, and making the drop-in point at the northmost point where one of the mission areas and 2 new terminals are, or the patch of green. Or perhaps making the drop-in point where the old arena would use to be if it was moved? or the CoT? There are MANY options here. Utilize them. I still do not believe tir's dragging problem will be solved in 14.7.8.

    Finally, something a bit general about this game's textures. I go into metal areas like missions, dungeons like the TLR (at some points, like exiting a cave and entering a green metal wall room, its like exiting a poisonous gas-filled room into a purified one) and i get ZERO lag, the omni med labs as well. But with the mud-brick texture tir has, i notice a little more lag being produced by these textures. Caves too, everyone says 'dont blitz caves,' why? because rock textures lag, the more natural they are. Some real work needs to be done to these graphic textures so they can be at the same time diverse but not lagging more than it would in an area with metal walls. The 'mud brick' problem may also be the reason why there is so much lag in broken shores. I see cities in this game have metal buildings and don't nearly lag as much.

    I hope you guys will consider some of these points, tir is a very avoided city for its vets with all the lag and problems it has.
    Last edited by Stromm; Jan 13th, 2003 at 08:04:19.
    "A man is someone who has a cause he's willing to fight for and has a woman in his life he'll do anything to protect."
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  2. #2
    Another thing to note for funcom:

    You say that lag is 'game lag, the processes of things happening' and not 'video problems,' well, maybe in other games, but not Anarchy Online. Shape up.
    "A man is someone who has a cause he's willing to fight for and has a woman in his life he'll do anything to protect."
    -SDI Ssgt. Port, USMC, MCRD Parris Island S.C.

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  3. #3
    I agree with the arena part. I think we should also maybe have a second arena in like Old/west athen, and the omnis get another one in... wherever they go..
    Toadman538 - 196 Soldier
    President of CAS

  4. #4
    Stromm, I definitely agree with your complains about Tir lag. Even on the less populated RK-2, the lag in Tir makes me sufficiently unhappy that I won't even go there -- the headquarters city of the clans -- unless I really need to. Makes me feel like kind of a jerk too when I want to help someone out but then they indicate they are in Tir and I refuse to go there. If they were pretty much anyplace else except Omni-1 HQ, even if they were in Home, I'd be more willing to make the trip.

    I have to add though, that petitioning with "im stuck" when you are NOT stuck is an abuse of the petition system that just makes it function even more poorly, and I can hardly fault an ARK for admonishing people who do that.
    Bima, Golly, Whatsamatta, Laslingis and an army of sub-100 alts

  5. #5
    Problem with cave missions is the water, I know with my setup, about 2/3 of the time if there's water in the room, I"m lagging.... and as soon as that room is behind me, boom, back to normal...

    There are very few rooms in the building missions that have water in them, I can think of 2 right now. But this is part of the reason for the difference.
    Deagnor 204 Solitus Fixer (Omni) Director of R.U.R.
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  6. #6
    Yea I know theres a room in smugglers den, in the mantis part, that has water in it and I lag like a mo'fo' when i run thru it
    Toadman538 - 196 Soldier
    President of CAS

  7. #7
    Well said, Stromm.

    I don't know the plights of tir much, but I'm sure all the points you brought up were well backed. The arena in Tir is crap though, that I can say, and giving Clanners lvl 250 guards and giving us crap lieutenants that my lvl 100 chars can solo is just junk. At the grid entrance is ok, but having them all over the city at that lvl? Heh, no thanks. How about 2 Omni-Pol Supremes and 2 of the 240 Slayer Wardens from HQ at the ent arena? Wouldn't be too nice would it?



    Omni-1 has been quite lag free lately, but I attest that to the fact that there isn't many people playing omni lately from what I can see, there is maybe 5-10 people max at trade grid at any given time, and the bronto burger in ent is just as thinly populated just by lower lvls.

  8. #8
    Isn't there a 'liquid animation' effect?

    Check if you have it on. As I recall, turning that off makes water much less laggy.
    Gunned down the young. Now old, crotchety, and back.

  9. #9
    I noticed another problem with the Tir Arena where I've seen a certain agent aggro and then run off to a certain point outside the arena and he could still shoot through a wall to the inside.
    I know others have seen people doing it as well.

    The first time this happened to me, I couldnt tell where I was getting hit from until I switched to 3rd person view and got a glimpse of him. From what I've seen this seems to be an exploit, because if you're melee, this agent can pretty much shoot you with no risk at all unless you're right up against the wall.

    This might be another thing that would be nice to have fixed.

  10. #10
    Originally posted by Kiryat-Dharin
    Isn't there a 'liquid animation' effect?

    Check if you have it on. As I recall, turning that off makes water much less laggy.
    I always leave 'liquid animation' toggled off in my options tab. Pretty much the bottom half of 'environment' are the only things all lit up, but even when i make those all blank, turn sound off, and put graphics to 16 bit and low quality, i have the same problem with Mud-brick textures and cave walls.

    Bump
    "A man is someone who has a cause he's willing to fight for and has a woman in his life he'll do anything to protect."
    -SDI Ssgt. Port, USMC, MCRD Parris Island S.C.

    Experienced Stars "Stromm" Nstripes - Retired

    Fun stuff: 1 2 3 4 (NEW!!)

  11. #11

    Tir Arena

    If the arena had one or 2 corridors leading into the 0% then there wouldnt be any lag inside the arena itself. With corridors u would have to leave the spot where everyone is gathering, walk through this corridor and end up in the arena. We dont want lots and lots of people to stand pretty much on top of the arena like it is now.

    Would give a gladiator-feel to it as well
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  12. #12
    One step in lag reduction is obvioulsy reducing the overcrowded spots.

    Take FT for instance : why not adding 3 exits to the building. One for each of its side ? Just a little tunnel going under the nano / implant rooms and you're done. Some adjustement on Tir river, maybe adding a boat or two in front of the exits, for players to sit and spam chat channel would be cool.

    Now for the grid : d-u-p-l-i-c-a-t-e it !
    Add to the S gate grid, a W and N gate grid for example.

    Far more easy than redisigning AO graphic engine...
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  13. #13

    I hate TIR

    Only good AO cities is Omni-1 and Old Athen(old omni city =P)

    Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
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  14. #14

    Re: I hate TIR

    Originally posted by Ubbis
    Only good AO cities is Omni-1 and Old Athen(old omni city =P)
    Omni-2 (Old Athen) has gotten way more laggy since NW. Some people have blamed the billboards, and there does seem to be some merit to the argument though I can't be sure. It does seem like more people in general are hanging out in Old Athen again, which I guess is a good thing, but man the lag stinks. I avoid the hill now.

    As long as its come up again, please remove the billboards in West Athen and Tir. Although I can make somewhat of a case for why Omni-2 has them if I pretend they were always there from back when Omni controlled the city, in West Athen and Tir they are really out of place.
    Bima, Golly, Whatsamatta, Laslingis and an army of sub-100 alts

  15. #15
    It would be neat to see the arenas removed and replaced outside of the cities as colosseums. Funcom could even stage events there such as tournaments or battles against strange mobs.. if they wanted to add something really cool, the audience area could have areas to bet on fights (if they could keep it from being exploited). Maybe even have rare mob battles that could be bet on but that don't allow player participation.

    just a thought anyway..

  16. #16
    Originally posted by Cr89o
    I noticed another problem with the Tir Arena where I've seen a certain agent aggro and then run off to a certain point outside the arena and he could still shoot through a wall to the inside.
    I know others have seen people doing it as well.
    Does the name Silverammi ring a bell?
    Waithe 133 Enforcer (my new main character)
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    Nediar @ level 171

  17. #17
    Originally posted by Nediar

    Does the name Silverammi ring a bell?
    Heh, I would certainly think there are plenty of lame ass people out there that would use this bug, because I was talking about a different agent, thought I'd leave his name out, no real point to saying it. This is a problem though, would be nice to have it fixed.

    I'm actually suprised that it isnt used more often to gank people... because well... certain people are small like that.

  18. #18

    Angry

    Originally posted by Cr89o
    I noticed another problem with the Tir Arena where I've seen a certain agent aggro and then run off to a certain point outside the arena and he could still shoot through a wall to the inside.
    I know others have seen people doing it as well.

    ...

    This might be another thing that would be nice to have fixed.
    I've also seen this happen in the backyard training areas in Rome. Somebody will agro a guard and shoot at it from outside the fence while the guard is stuck to the inside of the fence or just stands there.

    I've even had a mob do this to me when I've run back to the guards for protection...

  19. #19

    Thumbs up

    Couldnt agree more
    Tony "Uncounted" Soprano

  20. #20
    old bump
    "A man is someone who has a cause he's willing to fight for and has a woman in his life he'll do anything to protect."
    -SDI Ssgt. Port, USMC, MCRD Parris Island S.C.

    Experienced Stars "Stromm" Nstripes - Retired

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