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Thread: Fixer long-duration HoT's.

  1. #41
    Besides,

    There is already something in place that prevents high level ppls from executing heals on lower pplz, as well as my HoTs ...

    And this is at the towerwars and in the arena...

    Just not outside ... that's the only place where you could still buff those high level buffs on lowbies...

    So what ... If you go into a massive towerbattle do you think that hot will make the big ass difference in the end of the day? Nopes, numer of ppl will make the difference.

    If you can't accept the fact that ppl can get a buff that's "too high" for them before entering battle, then don't enter battle and go whine somewhere else plz...

    Anyone can get that **** ... just find someone to buff it for you

    It's not like you can't get the skills to get it on? The person you're whining about did it legitimate I guess... if he's sploiting to get the buff in his ncu then okay ... thats another story tho... but come on ...

    The only thing that matters is perhaps class imbalance... that's something you can't do **** about ...

    But outside buffs... find yourself some buffs and you'll be evenly matched...

    Don't go nerfing PvM cos of this... It'll totally suck...

  2. #42
    If you say having high level buffs on doesn't affect low lvl pvp then you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Having high level friends hugging the 75% boundary should not be a requirement for a low lvl pvp raid. Its retarded.

    And here's a question, when was the last time someone 140+ died in a PVM encounter that wasn't considered one of the 'uber' creatures? You almost have to be AFK to die these days with all the new guns/armor/spells they have added.

  3. #43
    Originally posted by Silvs
    If you say having high level buffs on doesn't affect low lvl pvp then you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Having high level friends hugging the 75% boundary should not be a requirement for a low lvl pvp raid. Its retarded.

    And here's a question, when was the last time someone 140+ died in a PVM encounter that wasn't considered one of the 'uber' creatures? You almost have to be AFK to die these days with all the new guns/armor/spells they have added.
    Having high level friends uploading you to the fixer grid, providing you with 5 million credits x (number of people in your attack force) for yalmahas, or setting up beacon warps to get you to the targets in the other faction's lowbie zones are required for low level tower pvp.

    Why not buffs?
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
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    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  4. #44
    Its so funny when I get tells from lowbie in the arenas and they ask for hots and after that they start fighting and they just dont die. One time, an really low level engi asked for hots and he started dueling a trader, after a good 5minutes, the trader ran away

  5. #45
    Originally posted by aaronb
    Well, I'll probably get a lot of disagreement on this... but I don't think PvP balance should matter one bit pre-150. It's impossible to balance the game at all levels with the design Funcom has chosen for character development.
    Agreed; low level pvp is all twinks feeding on newbs anyway and for that reason can never be balanced. But you see, FC could care less about higher level players, they figure you are hooked and won't quit, and in any event are much harder customers to please/keep around than a newb who is going to pee himself the first time he sees a slayer or a pit lizard (hehe that was me not so long ago).

  6. #46

    You brought it on yourself!

    /b originally posted by: Seraphael /b

    But there is all sorts of ways to inbalance lowbie pvp, like we experienced when 2 clan guilds, The Vengeance of the Clans and The Walkers attacked our baby base.
    I find this statement freaking Ludicrous. Yes we did have fixer HoT's running and did use a heal pet. Now with that admitted you should first look at your own guild and their tactics and not whine cause someone finally breaks and resorts to using the same tactics you and your guild have used to eleminate clan towers in the area. The Walkers had a base you guys couldn't take down and you started resorting to these tactics and finally broke it. Now someone uses the same tactics against you it needs to be fixed, muhahaha

    Please don't come whine when someone uses the same tactics that you used on us. Oh and I might add we hadn't thought of doing it till you used the tactics against us. Maybe not you personally but your org none the less.
    Datest- lvl 165 NM NT
    DarkTalons- 114 MA
    Brazak- lvl 102 MP
    Waygone- lvl 132 Doc
    Darkonium- lvl 134 Sol

  7. #47
    But there is all sorts of ways to inbalance lowbie pvp, like we experienced when 2 clan guilds, The Vengeance of the Clans and The Walkers attacked our baby base. They had high levels hugging the 75% zone healing lower levels. And even put belamortes on their lowbees.
    How ironic... you use these same tactics against The Walkers and then whine when they start using outside buffs to make it a lot closer to a fair fight than it had been.

    If you don't want people doing what you've done to others then stop using the lvl 200 enforcer, lvl 190 soldier and other higher levels to buff up before attacking a base.
    RK-1
    Kerz, 220 Omni Solitus MP, Proud President of Omni SV-9
    Kerzie, 209 Omni Solitus Engi
    Kerzicat, 206 Omni Atrox Crat
    Krzy, 157 Omni Opifex Fixer

  8. #48

    oh the irony

    Yup Datest and Dreamr, it's funny seeing people whose own org did this to us whine about it.

    PvP brings out the best and worst in people. If you get tired of losing because you are a 'nice guy/gal' and try to 'do the right thing', eventually you will either give up on pvp or resort to doing what it takes to win.

    For someone to whine when they get what they give makes me laugh. FC forbid that you actually have to fight someone on relatively "even" terms. That wouldn't be any fun to you ganker-wannabe's out there, now would it?

  9. #49
    Originally posted by Dreamr
    How ironic... you use these same tactics against The Walkers and then whine when they start using outside buffs to make it a lot closer to a fair fight than it had been.

    If you don't want people doing what you've done to others then stop using the lvl 200 enforcer, lvl 190 soldier and other higher levels to buff up before attacking a base.
    How quaint, how naive. Should we refrain from buffing lowbies defending our baby base in the vain hopes that the attacking force accept no outside buffs? Grow up! No one is whining here but you. Besides, we did not use the blatant tactics you used against us; we did not team with our lower levels to heal them, nor did we put belamortes on them though we had a meta in the area. After the outside buffs (almost solely of fixer longtime HOTs) they were on their own.

    Trust some one who use such chickens**t methods to miss the point of the thread; how to avoid inbalance by high level interferance (ie buffs, or more direct intervention as in your example) into lowlevel gameplay.
    Last edited by Seraphael; Jan 14th, 2003 at 23:37:55.
    Seraphael - 200 fixer
    Pepzi - ** agent
    Troxitazz - retired trader

  10. #50

    Re: You brought it on yourself!

    Originally posted by Datest
    The Walkers had a base you guys couldn't take down and you started resorting to these tactics and finally broke it. Now someone uses the same tactics against you it needs to be fixed, muhahaha

    Please don't come whine when someone uses the same tactics that you used on us. Oh and I might add we hadn't thought of doing it till you used the tactics against us. Maybe not you personally but your org none the less.
    I missed this post before posting my previous one.

    Excuse me for laughing out LOUD! I personally didn't even know The Walkers had a base in the area. Our offensive moves only came as a response to the repeated attacks on our installation.

    I might also add that I have adressed the issue in a previous thread (do a check if you will), before you resorted to your obvious tactics. Using direct highlevel heals and belamortes in addition to outside buffs in baby pvp is so ludicrous you should be ashamed to admit it.
    Last edited by Seraphael; Jan 15th, 2003 at 00:05:15.
    Seraphael - 200 fixer
    Pepzi - ** agent
    Troxitazz - retired trader

  11. #51
    Originally posted by Zarch
    To Littlehorror:

    "We manage to keep our ground for like 1.5 hours after that our main tower was destroyed."

    Oh? In every Tower fight I have been the area has gone 100% after tower has been destroyed?

    Wanna _make up_ more touching stories how high lvl buffs ruin your preciouss low lvl game... which you can level off in week anyways...
    I think you just didn't read it right, Zarch.

    "We managed to keep our ground for like 1.5 hours. After that, they destroyed our main tower and the fight was over."

    Also, your leveling numbers are completely out of whack for most players. They're only accurate for PLed twink alts of very well off mains.
    Gunned down the young. Now old, crotchety, and back.

  12. #52
    Believe whatever you want Seraph.

    We didn't start things by using 3 lvl 25-30 lowbies followed closely with a 200 enf and a 190 soldier. We also didn't give those lvl 25-30s 60point damage shields to make it impossible for the defending base to *defend* their base.


    And before you accuse me personally of cheating in pvp, look around next time and see if any of my alts are there. I don't pvp since our base was taken unfairly. And I sure wasn't there when you claim us Walkers cheated in pvp against you.
    RK-1
    Kerz, 220 Omni Solitus MP, Proud President of Omni SV-9
    Kerzie, 209 Omni Solitus Engi
    Kerzicat, 206 Omni Atrox Crat
    Krzy, 157 Omni Opifex Fixer

  13. #53
    To end this derailment of the topic the thread. I never claimed anyone cheated, that includes you as I can't ever recall to have met any of you chars. You continue to miss the point, the ease of which highend buffs can inbalance lowbie pvp is a legitimate concern. My suggestion in an earlier thread on the same topic, was to level lock fixer HOTs similar to that of fixer NCU buffs, but any high end buff could to a lesser extent have an inbalancing effect on lowbie pvp. The situation we confronted in SWB has served to convince me that FC has a formidable task in front of them if they ever decide to tackle the issue.

    Also you confronted more experienced and skilled players who have bankrolled low level twinks as a diversion. My suggestion to you then would be to check your target before picking a fight, a guild with many high levels will have resources beyond that of most low-mid level ones.
    Seraphael - 200 fixer
    Pepzi - ** agent
    Troxitazz - retired trader

  14. #54

    seraphel

    we had a discussion like this a couple of days ago in the notum wars forum.

    back then your prez defended the stance upon getting whatever outside buffs you can get as fair play.

    now you argue against fixer hots.

    in what way is a fixer hot different from a soldier reflect or an enforcer essence?

    all 3 allow the twink in question to survive insane damage for his level.

    you cannot draw a line here - either you want completely self buffed tower fights to level the play field.

    or

    you defend the status quo where you basically have to prepare your characters as if you were going into an arena duel and log them off fully buffed in front of the grid drop off ready to be deployed the very instant somebody disables your shields.

    decide.
    sept 03 - the day ao was keeled by sl.

    gone now. byebye.

  15. #55
    About a month ago I wrote:

    Originally posted by Seraphael
    Level requirements for HOT: YES. Why? As Neurofreeze rightly pointed out; having a low-level charecter running a high-level HOT makes for an unfair advantage in tower-pvp where such buffing otherwise is prohibited. I am not an advocate for level requirements incorporated into every buff, but this buff should be such.
    I speak for myself. I am allowed my own free opinion independent of that anyone in my org might or might not have posted previously, thank you very much.

    In it I adressed the fixer long HOTs specifically as they are my domain. If you had bothered to read my previous posts in this thread you would have seen that I also mention other inbalancing factors and the fact that leveling the playing field will be a formidable task.
    Last edited by Seraphael; Jan 15th, 2003 at 13:40:47.
    Seraphael - 200 fixer
    Pepzi - ** agent
    Troxitazz - retired trader

  16. #56

    Re: oh the irony

    Originally posted by Ralgur
    Yup Datest and Dreamr, it's funny seeing people whose own org did this to us whine about it.

    PvP brings out the best and worst in people. If you get tired of losing because you are a 'nice guy/gal' and try to 'do the right thing', eventually you will either give up on pvp or resort to doing what it takes to win.

    For someone to whine when they get what they give makes me laugh. FC forbid that you actually have to fight someone on relatively "even" terms. That wouldn't be any fun to you ganker-wannabe's out there, now would it?
    LOL I dont see anyone from my org whine, over that u used the same tactics... u however whined, when we did, and now that u guys do it its okay... I find that rather funny...

    And BTW u hadnt owned our base if we were defending it As u all properly know, every clanner got fed up with Nordic Fusions rampage, and made a strike on all our bases at the same time, obvious that we would concentrate on defending our higher lvl bases

    But dont worry we will be back
    Jamesdum President of Ragnarok
    Jamespond Member of Ragnarok
    Jamespond2 Member of Ragnarok

    Want to join Ragnarok?

    Quote on BrutalThug
    Because we have spy's in EVERYONE's guild so we can plan the attack while you sleep !! yeah ! hmm we clearly need to rename the guild to "nordic echelon"

  17. #57
    The simple solution to balance pvp is this

    you approach a tower and the clock starts ticking, you eye your opponent who is smut talking you about being a gas line skater. You check your buffs making sure they are all running. you make sure your gun is fully loaded. The timer runs out and the AO screen goes black.

    Suddenly the screen flashes and you see

    WELCOME TO UNREAL TOURNAMENT 2003
    loading DM-AOMort please wait.



    there is no way to balance PVP in a game where each profession has different advantages and disadvantages.

    ~aqua
    Last edited by Aqua; Jan 15th, 2003 at 16:42:07.
    Kappen Token Trader of Project EDEN LV 217 mind numbing grinding since 1948 well it just seems that long!!!!!

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    ---------
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  18. #58

    Something to think about...

    Jamespond and Ser whatever:

    You are hypocritical at best. You condone what you do, then when it's done to you, you whine like a kid who lost his/her candy.

    I personally fight EVERY fight in tower defense or offense with self-only buffs or buffs from someone of equivalent level. I am cannon fodder since everyone on the other side seems to be running around in "god" mode.

    Cry me a river, k?

    As for exploiting, I know at least one person from your org who is really good at getting a high level run buff and hot, then attacking someone and running out of combat range to let the hots heal. The person he attacked however is unable to heal or regain nano because even though said person from your org is out of range of combat, a bug allows them to keep the target in aggro so they can't do anything but stand there and wait to be whittled down by the cheater.

    I know this because it happened to me. I was self buffed that fight and everytime I'd get the person half dead, they'd run off to heal leaving me to stand there unable to use kits. By the very definition provided by FC itself (which I read to day), that is an exploit. I included a direct quote from the article here:

    An exploit is a bug that grants a user an unnatural or an unintended benefit in the game for a character of their profession and level. Meaning, it's a bug or design error that makes it possible for characters to fight monsters, solve quests, earn money, get items, etc. that normally should be out of that character's reach or not possible in the first place. Basically, exploiting can be described as cheating.
    Read that carefully. Yes, the person I mentioned was acting within the code of the game, however, the issue is whether it is a design issue. I can't see how anyone who is reasonable could see running out of range to heal, keeping aggro on the target so they can't use kits is anything but a design error, and taking advantage of this design error is an exploit aka cheating. It removes all risk from the attacker and renders the defender helpless due to a hole in the code.

    Win or lose, I could care less. I'm not one of those folks who stakes how I feel about myself on how a pvp battle in a game turns out.

    You will be back huh Jamespond? Good. Keep building the bases. I may never win a pvp battle, but I'll be there making sure you have to quit doing what you're doing to defend.

    Bah! Why do I bother? You can only see your side of things and can't get your ego out of the way long enough to be reasonable.

  19. #59
    Originally posted by Aqua
    The simple solution to balance pvp is this

    [Snip] Truthfull Exaggeration [/snip]
    there is no way to balance PVP in a game where each profession has different advantages and disadvantages.

    ~aqua
    Exactly. There are too many breeds and too many professions with too many different ways to play them to make balance 1 profession against another possible. Attempting to do so will only break the game.
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

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  20. #60

    Re: Something to think about...

    Originally posted by Ralgur
    Jamespond and Ser whatever:
    You are hypocritical at best. You condone what you do, then when it's done to you, you whine like a kid who lost his/her candy.
    Nah I dont whine, nor do Sera... But we have seen the flames, and the name calling of our guild, yeah even called us exploiters, and then they use the same tactics as we used, and added a little on top...

    U can be buffed in PvP, nothing stops u from doing this, its not an exploit its not a bug... Then they made the rule with healings, so that high lvls couldnt heal u in tower PvP... now this low lvl just goes outside the LC area and suddenly he can get healed by the doc and the MP pet...

    Originally posted by Ralgur
    As for exploiting, I know at least one person from your org who is really good at getting a high level run buff and hot, then attacking someone and running out of combat range to let the hots heal. The person he attacked however is unable to heal or regain nano because even though said person from your org is out of range of combat, a bug allows them to keep the target in aggro so they can't do anything but stand there and wait to be whittled down by the cheater.

    I know this because it happened to me. I was self buffed that fight and everytime I'd get the person half dead, they'd run off to heal leaving me to stand there unable to use kits. By the very definition provided by FC itself (which I read to day), that is an exploit.
    Plz stop calling us exploiters, its really LAME...

    How is it an exploit he runs out of range to heal up? he cant use kits too u know? sure he might got a HoT on him, but what stops u from getting one urself, other than ur own stupidity?

    Originally posted by Ralgur

    Win or lose, I could care less. I'm not one of those folks who stakes how I feel about myself on how a pvp battle in a game turns out.
    But still u cry exploiters, when someone owns u`?

    Originally posted by Ralgur

    You will be back huh Jamespond? Good. Keep building the bases. I may never win a pvp battle, but I'll be there making sure you have to quit doing what you're doing to defend.
    Be sure to have fun, oh and plz only come and attack us when u are freshman, as we now need Rookie titles to get our ego even higher up

    Originally posted by Ralgur

    Bah! Why do I bother? You can only see your side of things and can't get your ego out of the way long enough to be reasonable.
    No im just tired of guys flaming my guild, and call us exploiters, just because we owned them...

    And when they then use the same tactics, which are legit tactics btw, then I just have to flame them, because they called us exploiters for doing just that
    Jamesdum President of Ragnarok
    Jamespond Member of Ragnarok
    Jamespond2 Member of Ragnarok

    Want to join Ragnarok?

    Quote on BrutalThug
    Because we have spy's in EVERYONE's guild so we can plan the attack while you sleep !! yeah ! hmm we clearly need to rename the guild to "nordic echelon"

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