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Thread: Friendly to neutrals? Really?

  1. #61
    Originally posted by Viray
    To explain #4 I would like to point out a statement that was made here earlier about Neutral Towers being in Clan Territory. I can see the slight logic behind this however current as of today (1/15). 17 Towers by Clan Org's alone are in regions surrounding the two Neutral Cities, and in the four VERY WELL KNOWN designated Neutral areas.
    A couple points here, speaking entirely from SF's perspective:

    First, my reference to "clan territory" is referring to all of Atlantean. So no matter how you paint it, you have bases in what we consider clan territory.

    Second, we're not interested in diplomacy. We're interested in annihilating the presence of all who oppose us, everywhere. Talk is cheap. Use a clan form or face our hordes of barbaric, blood-thirsty members.

    We don't really care what justification LD has for attacking. We see red flags go up and praise the massacre. Today is a good day to die (a few times).
    Kennan - President, Arcane Legacy
    Asmoran - Retired (Former President, Synergy Factor)

  2. #62
    Originally posted by aaronb


    A couple points here, speaking entirely from SF's perspective:

    First, my reference to "clan territory" is referring to all of Atlantean. So no matter how you paint it, you have bases in what we consider clan territory.

    Second, we're not interested in diplomacy. We're interested in annihilating the presence of all who oppose us, everywhere. Talk is cheap. Use a clan form or face our hordes of barbaric, blood-thirsty members.

    We don't really care what justification LD has for attacking. We see red flags go up and praise the massacre. Today is a good day to die (a few times).
    And this is why many are wondering why the Clans don't look like the Devil in the Shadowlands. Clanners lost their roots and playing like a bunch of frothing at the mouth Klingons. At one time I respected the Clans and their reasons for existence. Now, they're nothing more than a bunch of admitted gamers. Oh well, another game down the toilet. Seems SW: G may be ruined by these people before it even starts. Maybe it's time to take a break from these things.

  3. #63
    I applaud your efforts Vixentrox and have taken notice at your posts here. I was really trying to reach those that have been a little harder of hearing.

    A couple points here, speaking entirely from SF's perspective:

    First, my reference to "clan territory" is referring to all of Atlantean. So no matter how you paint it, you have bases in what we consider clan territory.

    Second, we're not interested in diplomacy. We're interested in annihilating the presence of all who oppose us, everywhere. Talk is cheap. Use a clan form or face our hordes of barbaric, blood-thirsty members.

    We don't really care what justification LD has for attacking. We see red flags go up and praise the massacre. Today is a good day to die (a few times).
    You wish to wipe out the Omni-Tek oppression and simply replace it with your own? If this is the case you are really only giving anyone two options replace Omni-Tek's evil with your own, or fight you in every way possible. So which is the lesser of the two evils? That is what we will all have to decide I guess in the end.

    I fail to believe that this is how all Clan Orgs view the world and their goals. I also find it mind boggling that fellow Clan Orgs would support such a radical ideal as this, although with Tir falling into Sentinel hands maybe the movements of understanding and freedom have truly left you.
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

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  4. #64
    Viray, you are speaking from a Storyline perspective. These people don't give a crap. They are 'gamers' and want to 'win'. Seriously most of them could care less if they were Omni or Clan. They just happen to be the ones with the Red flags instead of the Blue flags. Could easily have been the other way around except, I guess, Tarasque is in Avalon and so the war was lost a long time ago.

    Don't try to make sense with someone who don't give a crap about the game or whether or not their actions are good for Anarchy Online. Best to pretend they don't exist, let the whole gameboard go red and allow them to play with each other. They'll go away when SW: G is released and hopefully leave the people who care about Anarchy Online with a better planet.

  5. #65
    (( Bionitrous I think it's fine to play the devil's advocate (no guild relation) and make the comments your making...

    however where they are providing one stereotype to Neutrals and Tower control you are simply presenting the other of their game play...

    And while this may be true or at least apparent with some Clan Orgs like Lion's Den, Dust Bunnies, and others mention in this thread... it isn't true for all of them, and not for every member of the Orgs stated above.

    I believe that a lot of Clan Orgs will read this and I wanna present them a different perspective than just the trivial arguing over who did what first, or who is right and wrong.

    War creates no winners or losers, just survivors. ))
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

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    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  6. #66
    A wise man once said: "War does not determine who is right, but who is left."
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  7. #67
    and then I ganked him and got Neophyte!
    Velveeta - The best atrox doctor on Rubi-Ka 1!
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  8. #68
    My point is that the Clans and Omni that want to make this a 'world' and not just tic-tac-toe to a large degree don't 'matter'. It's a shame that the interesting people aren't in charge of power-guilds. Damn, if that were the case, this would be a hell of a game. A guy with creativity AND the juice to pull things off?

    No. Those people mostly get second-tier at best. It's the people who are lacking that make it to the point they can bully entire servers around. What's the old adage about why men buy guns? Well you know the answer. Just because the man who is 'deficient' isn't as good a human as you doesn't mean he doesn't scare you. Hell he has a gun. Same thing goes on in these games. Look at the guy who get's hung up by underpants in the locker room by the football team. 18 hrs a day on AO sure as hell rectifies that situation. All it takes is time and what these people like to call (hehe) 'dedication'. They say they have 'earned' power, etc, etc.

    They get away with it because FunCom has no balls. Scads of people have left because of what these people are able to do to this game and yet it is allowed to continue and even prosper. Entire servers on DAoC were destroyed by this and now the second largest AO server is on the brink of collapse. How's that gonna hit FunCom in the pocketbook? August of 2001 I told FunCom, they would be slitting their own throats if they let this crap happen and now it's about to. Storm camps uniques, Storm owns Tarasque, Clannet turns tarasque into a shopping mall, Clan eliminates all competition for land. Why even bother?

    I know! I can start a Clan character and Win! Hell, I think I'll take next week off and play AO. Oughtta be up to 120 by the end of the week. Then I'll be having 'fun'. Maybe Storm will come with 200 people and destroy some Omni or Neutral base and 'give' it to my sorry ass. Yay! One more Red flag on the board. I'm a Winner!

    Screw that.

  9. #69
    Well Bio, it seems like your issues are outside the game. I'm sorry you don't have fun playing it, but you're no better than the people you condemn by trying to stop people from doing what they enjoy. Camping uniques, tarasque or anything else isn't hurting you, so I don't see why you should be in a position to deny that pleasure to other people.

    Notum Wars is about PvP. If you aren't enjoying it, then it's a bad idea to participate. It's not about taking land you want and sitting on it like a hen on an egg.

    There are plenty of hardcore roleplaying guilds in AO - I am friendly with people in quite a few of them. There is a niche available for you - if you want to jump in it, then do it.

    I get to play maybe 3 hours a day at most, and I like to PvP and take part in tower battles. Don't tell me that this causes such misery to you that I should stop.

    You CHOSE to be affected by PvP by buying Notum Wars.

    I am going to ask you a question: how exactly do you WANT this game to be? No bosses? No uniques? No PvP? I'm not even sure what you want. Please describe your perfect Anarchy Online to me, because if the current state of the game is as hideous as you make it out to be, I'd love to know how fantastic it is in your head - hell, I'll even help rally Funcom with you to change it.
    Velveeta - The best atrox doctor on Rubi-Ka 1!
    Aiboforcen - A change of pace..
    Shikhi - The return!

    Digital Gunfire - Music to level by.

  10. #70
    OOC

    Bio..hun...I had the meanest, nastiet Omni guilds rip up a couple of my mines. They are for the most part the Omni equivilents of Storm. I was upset but my gosh...it is a game and our guild makes do with a nice little plot of land that the big guilds don't want. Before those guilds ripped up our mines we were restrained by our politics from attacking Omni guilds...now my folks have an excuse to attack them. Turn it to your advantage...make some role-play out of it. Don't get so upset. If the game is making you this unhappy, it is best just to leave while you still have some sanity. *hugs*
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  11. #71
    (( It's one thing to PvP over towers in NW, but entirely another for one faction to control, dominate, and decide who does and doesn't get chances at certain loot, bosses, and unique drops. I believe this is where his issue comes from cause now you are ruining someone else's fun by controlling and manhandling the game.

    It works both ways in that respect. I agree completely that NW is about PvP however in any game the is suppose to be RPG as well limits between players have to be reached... somehow Hardcore Gamers, Casual Gamers, and RPers are going to have to get along all in the same environment.

    The issue really stems from the fact that the strong don't battle the strong they pick on the weak. They bully those underneath them. This is what causes grief.))
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

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    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  12. #72
    Ok look, this conversation is becoming stupid.

    When NW came out, we had a lot of activity and many of us had a lot of fun. After a while it died down and basically we had everyone sitting around admiring their own towers. Well, some of us enjoy PvP, win or lose. My organization wants more activity, and so I'm warmongering. This really isn't that difficult to figure out.

    We're not interested in wiping Omni off the face of the map. We're not interested in dominating every unique spawn in the game. We're not trying to bully other people around. What we are trying to do is stir up activity.

    Rubi-Ka is a big place. There are plenty of things to do in the game. The Notum Wars booster is about PvP, plain and simple. If you can't handle it, don't participate.
    Kennan - President, Arcane Legacy
    Asmoran - Retired (Former President, Synergy Factor)

  13. #73
    Originally posted by Velveeta
    Notum Wars is about PvP. If you aren't enjoying it, then it's a bad idea to participate. It's not about taking land you want and sitting on it like a hen on an egg.
    Yep!

    Three posts while I made my response... hehe.
    Kennan - President, Arcane Legacy
    Asmoran - Retired (Former President, Synergy Factor)

  14. #74
    Originally posted by Viray
    The issue really stems from the fact that the strong don't battle the strong they pick on the weak. They bully those underneath them. This is what causes grief.
    For what it's worth, we attack pretty much anyone.
    Kennan - President, Arcane Legacy
    Asmoran - Retired (Former President, Synergy Factor)

  15. #75
    *OOC*

    Rubi-Ka is a big place. There are plenty of things to do in the game. The Notum Wars booster is about PvP, plain and simple. If you can't handle it, don't participate.

    What about those Orgs that place towers for benefits purely in PvE or for RP purposes? For instance Grid Stream Productions... I doubt any Org familiar with GSP would destory their tower.

    You wanna stir up activity try doing it with some sort of consistency to the story or elements of the game... The Clans aren't about destorying everything, at least not if it isn't Omni-Tek...

    Plenty of ways to find your activity without just mindless butchering of players, and taking out EVERY tower in exsistance.

    */OOC*
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

    Viray's Taxi Co.

    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  16. #76
    Same here. We attack people that have land we want, or that we have a grudge against. The thing is, if you control a decent piece of land and you can't defend it, you will lose it anyway. Even if we hadn't taken the EO base in Mort, it's obvious you guys wouldn't have been able to defend it anyway so... we become the scapegoat and we can have a fun little war

    What about those Orgs that place towers for benefits purely in PvE or for RP purposes? For instance Grid Stream Productions... I doubt any Org familiar with GSP would destory their tower.
    Well, if you place towers in land that becomes 25% you open them to attack. I repeat Notum Wars is not a 'pay $20 for some buffs' booster. If you place land EVEN IF ITS JUST FOR PVE BENEFITS and we want it WE WILL ATTACK IT!

    What it was placed for is irrelevant! It's like saying... I took this QL250 piece of land because I want +30 to BM/MM so I can complete heal my friend while he tanks Ian Warr - WHO CARES! The land is there for the taking and nobody has disputed this... you can't be angry because your piece of land is attacked, no matter what your reason is for putting it down.

    And I disagree with you.. if GSP takes a juicy piece of land, plenty of Omni (and neutral ) orgs will be after it. The reason no one will attack it is probably because they have a QL30 spot in bumfk, nowhere.
    Last edited by Shikhi; Jan 15th, 2003 at 23:57:56.
    Velveeta - The best atrox doctor on Rubi-Ka 1!
    Aiboforcen - A change of pace..
    Shikhi - The return!

    Digital Gunfire - Music to level by.

  17. #77
    Originally posted by Viray
    What about those Orgs that place towers for benefits purely in PvE or for RP purposes? For instance Grid Stream Productions... I doubt any Org familiar with GSP would destory their tower.

    You wanna stir up activity try doing it with some sort of consistency to the story or elements of the game... The Clans aren't about destorying everything, at least not if it isn't Omni-Tek...

    Plenty of ways to find your activity without just mindless butchering of players, and taking out EVERY tower in exsistance.
    Viray,

    If you review the locations we (SF) assault, they are either strategic or retaliatory actions. We do not just run around raizing bases. The point of talking smack on the forums is so that our enemies can choose themselves.
    Kennan - President, Arcane Legacy
    Asmoran - Retired (Former President, Synergy Factor)

  18. #78
    *OOC*

    aaronb define what makes the needed destruction of a tower a strategic? Is it cause it is too close? Cause it is Neutral? What makes your strategic decisions?

    I am curious as I can't think of any reason strategically our towers were destoryed... I have no knowledge that SF was involve in our Towers falling however what did Lion's Den gain from destroying our tower? Nothing but simply a spot to give to another Clan Org as far as I can tell.

    And even all this PvP discussion does not explain why Lion's Den has tried to slander EO and paint them as a sided Neutral Org...

    +shrug+

    Its a merry go round we all ride on I guess, however EO won't just start balantly attacking Clan Towers just cause they are there, we have only been reactionary to this point.

    We have yet to simply attack for the lack of anything better to do. Strategic or not.

    */OOC*
    Graduate of the Elite Academy

    Viray's Yalm Cleaning Services

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    The moral highground was levelled the very day the first player landed in a backyard, saw a cute leet and said "I wonder what it drops?"

    - Savoy

  19. #79
    Originally posted by Viray
    aaronb define what makes the needed destruction of a tower a strategic? Is it cause it is too close? Cause it is Neutral? What makes your strategic decisions?

    I am curious as I can't think of any reason strategically our towers were destoryed... I have no knowledge that SF was involve in our Towers falling however what did Lion's Den gain from destroying our tower? Nothing but simply a spot to give to another Clan Org as far as I can tell.
    We assisted LD in the assaults (post-Mort).

    SF has taken two bases. We took the QL200 in Southwest Belial from Izgimmer's Legacy and the QL250 in Perpetual Wastelands from DSA. We took the base in Belial because it was right next to our QL150 base (IL was a potential threat) and gave us control of that region. We took the base in PW because we needed a 200-300 area and because it provided an easy portal for Omni deep into heavily clan controlled territory.

    Outside of this, we have assisted other organizations in taking (or retaking) land for their use and for their positioning. We have also attacked as retaliation for both attacks on our bases and for player griefing.

    And then there are attacks like the ones going on in CAV as I type. The strategy behind our support and participation in this isn't something I care to divulge, as it would compromise our objectives.
    Kennan - President, Arcane Legacy
    Asmoran - Retired (Former President, Synergy Factor)

  20. #80
    I am curious as I can't think of any reason strategically our towers were destoryed... I have no knowledge that SF was involve in our Towers falling however what did Lion's Den gain from destroying our tower? Nothing but simply a spot to give to another Clan Org as far as I can tell.
    Which base are you talking about? We took Terraform Edge and still own it ourselves..
    Velveeta - The best atrox doctor on Rubi-Ka 1!
    Aiboforcen - A change of pace..
    Shikhi - The return!

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