Friendly to neutrals? Really?

[______________Shikhi]

Lions Dens manifesto/policy says they should not attack any neutrals under any circumstances. Their first hostile act in NW is against neutrals, go figure.

Lies.

Lions Den is supposedly hostile to Omni, yet they listen to the first omni who passes by saying EO took the Mort base by force, go figure.

Information wasn't from omnis.. lies.

Lions Den is supposedly a RP guild, yet they cry like a little baby about their xp bonus, go figure.

Nobody cried about an Xp bonus.. only mention regarding it was my post which was nothing like 'crying' (stomp neut ass was my statement.) Lies again..

As for EO being hostile, take a look at who we are hostile against. Its the same people that took or assisted in taking land from us in the first place!

ICC deregulated mining and opened it up for FREE ENTERPRISE regardless of faction. Which part of "free enterprise" says you have to be Omni or Clan? Does the name Harry ring a bell? Ya know, second biggest merchant on Rubi-Ka? Do you want to claim he's Clan or Omni?

If you clanners think neutrals arent supposed to have towers then you're saying clanners shouldnt have them either. It was Omni who had a monopoly on mining and now that you're given a possibility to mine yourselves, you're whining about a small group of people like neutrals getting the same chance.

The bases that certain clans have occpied is still considered to be EO property. Occupied by hostiles, we will fight until the day we have been compensated or the bases are returned into neutral care.

I don't care what you think is your property. Come try and take some land in Tir, or go try and take some in Omni land and see how long you take it. Build your stinking towers in Newland and keep them there.

I believe there are a few points Lions Den should strike from their manifesto/policies since their stance seems quite different now with Notum Wars on us:

- Lions Den is not neutral friendly in any shape or form.
- Lions Den is not a roleplaying guild.
- Lions Den is not hostile towards Omni.
- Lions Den is not honorable.

We're certainly not friendly towards EO. We haven't attacked any other neutrals. Does that tell you something?

I don't care what you think about our roleplaying.. that has nothing to do with this issue so.. whatever.

We have killed plenty of omnis and taken 5+ omni bases in Clon**** and other locations so... lies again.

And regarding our honor, I really care what some scummy neut thinks about it

Persisting with those claims makes me want to cry and laugh at the same time. Give them up, sticking to them makes you look rediculous.

Gonna be doing that in 75%? As you've seen, while you sit here and try to talk smack, you lose your bases. We hold Mort, we helped destroy your TLR base and if your CAV base isn't already gone, it will be soon. We offered peace to you and you didn't take it. Now it's your turn to come to us as we've clearly shown you that you have no chance.

Otherwise, just continue these pointless posts on the forums - I don't know of any worthwhile clan guilds that aren't against EO at this point, so you're not really impressing anybody.

[_______________Lucie]

1st of all neut attack us 1st

Does TowerHunter ring a dam bell peopleeeee!!!!!!!
Dust bunni started attacking neut becasue Nuet started it
Does the attack to Clan base next to Bliss ring a bell to anyone?

[Bionitrous]

Don't be so naive, Lucie. Elite Operations and Tower Hunters are two different organizations. I won't even buff them creeps. My org tries to avoid disrupting the gameplay of gamers we respect. And if you got a beef with Tower Hunters, why not attack them? There's a good chance I'll come help ya. Just because they're Neutral doesn't mean we believe in the same things. There's no such thing as a Neutral flag. Judge each organization on their own merits.

My org had a base. It was destroyed by a Clan org. We tried to take it back and will probably continue to attempt revenge until such time as we are satisfied that our inconvenience has at least been equalled by theirs. That don't make me a Clan hater. But, if the entire faction decides that my org did something wrong and procedes to torment me for the remainder of this game's life, it very well might. Still doesn't mean I'm gonna pick up an application form for the Company.

Got a problem with the Tower Hunters? Go take it to them.

[Bionitrous]

If you attack clanners you will be destroyed, no matter who they are.

That's the attitude that destroyed Rimor and will eventually destroy Atlantean. I can't wait for the day these guys grow hair in new places and realize girls are a good thing.

I don't rightly care if you get your whole damn Clan gang of punks and destroy our CAV base. More power to ya. Bring yer pets and get them to take down half our towers before disabling our shields and then make sure you got 50 level 200's to ensure we're destroyed. Then pat yerselves on the back and salivate over how 'uber' you are. Still doesn't mean you've achieved anything that any other-bloated group of Type A, attention deficit disorder-riddled, game-addicts couldn't achieve. I'm surprised our base isn't gone already.

We tried to explain our actions. We have yet to date to initiate an unprovoked military action against anybody who hasn't harmed our organization. The fact that Omni has yet to date decide to disturb us is why we are in this situation. Honestly, I don't know why they haven't done so yet. The simple fact that our base gets destroyed by a single clan and we attempt to reclaim it seems to legitimize every other party's getting on the bandwagon and tormenting the easy target.

The Clans are hated on Rimor and hated on Atlantean. I really wonder who is going to be wearing the devil outfits in the Shadowlands because based on the number of Cardinal Sins that seem to be embraced by the Clanners on both servers, it sure points in that direction. I try hard to not hate or dislike either side. But, the obvious immaturity and humility of one particular gang-mentality sector of the population in this game makes that exceedingly difficult.

This game has gone in the crapper lately. Rimor, first. Now Atlantean. It started with that god-awful abortion of a playfield, Camelot. And now the stench is floating over the whole server. Go take down CAV if it makes you feel bigger in the pants. This whole conversation disgusts me and is indicative of how rotten things have become in this game over the last year. It used to be a game. Notum Wars comes out and we try to play the game. Unfortunately, a majority of our fellow gamers seem to have no sense of sportsmanship. I guess that's a reflection on the way we raise our children these days.

[Brutal Truuth]

i said it once , i will say it again ... get off the fence post and join omni (god knows they need the help )

clan hated / yeah ok , i dont mind being hated ... its pretty easy to live with. I;m not looseing sleep over it thats for sure.

being neutral means taking no sides , means not instigating a faction , means not attacking a faction . If you are helping one side by takeing the other sides land then are you neutral ? or are you helping that side by takeing the enemys land so they dont have land to help defend?

let me break it down so your 13 year old minds may comprehend what is being said :

Neutral helping Omni = Omni
neutral helping Clan = Clan
Neutral not helping either = Neutral

Which of the 3 do you fall under ?

[______________Shikhi]

I was going to bother replying to your post Bionitrous, but your own head is so far up your own ass that it's not even worth it.

All I can say is... I really don't care if you don't like the way others play the game. Too bad, the day you get to dictate the way the game is played will be the day I quit.

We WILL defend other clanners, and if you think that's 'weak' then I would not hestitate to say that you are a trifle.... dim. Why would we not defend our fellow countrymen?

Unfortunately, a majority of our fellow gamers seem to have no sense of sportsmanship.

Yeah, let's fight 1v1 at ten paces for land instead

You really need to lighten up, dude. It's just a game. It almost stops being fun to play when people take it this seriously =p

Let's at least realize that the only point of NW is PvP - *and that's what we're doing.* Bases are NOT free buff sites, and while it's fine to be 'angry' in a roleplaying context, I don't think posting a pile of spew directed personally at people is really appropriate.

But whatever.. I hope you start having some fun at some point.

[Psikie]

Brutal Truth said:
<let me break it down so your 13 year old minds may comprehend what is being said :

Neutral helping Omni = Omni
neutral helping Clan = Clan
Neutral not helping either = Neutral

Which of the 3 do you fall under ?>

Neutral being attacked by clan and gettin help from Omni= Survival
Neutral helping omni= repayment to survival

Before NW I rarely teamed with OT's because they never seem to finish missions at my lvl. But I always admired clanners returning time and again from reclaim to finish missions.
BUT after NW it seems to have brought out some really bad qualities of clansmen/women that are kinda disheartening. I had always assumed in the end it would have been Clan and neutrals vs. Big Brother Omni. But this has not been the case, the clans have gotten an upper hand on Rimor so Atlantean clanners may have gotten a little too cocky about it. But because of the actions of a few clan orgs- they are forcing neutrals into the waitin arms of Omni. And you may not think we pose much of a threat, but I gaurantee you 1 thing. If this continues you will stir up such a hornets nest that every single night instead of goin out gettin xp and your ubber loot you will be too busy defending bases all across RK-1. This is not a vieled threat in any sense of the word. But you have not really seen a cohesive force of neutrals and omnis. You have beaten back ot's or neuts at your bases after considerable losses. Imagine if OT's and neuts totally worked together out of vengance or spite to destroy your bases? Be carefull what you wish for you may just get it.

[___________Lady Kali]

Originally posted by The Evil Couch


aren't you the guy that attacked the placeholder base we had in The Longest Road? the one whose bot we dismantled and played catch with the parts with while we were waiting to turn the base over to its current owners?

thanks for the amusement

Sumokan is too high in level to initiate an attack on TLR land. And he certainly not an engineer. Get your info straight.


Regarding the issue of Omni trickery:

Originally posted by Velveeta


Information wasn't from omnis.. lies.

Then you’re calling your Clan leader a liar. This is the info we received from your leader as the reason for the attack on our base in Mort. Although, I can see why he lied to us if it was Clan trickery at work, and not the manipulation of Omni. That would make Clan look bad, oooh the scandal! The cover-up!! And god forbid the responsible Clan parties fess up. This makes a lot more sense to me, thanks Velveta, you’re quite a guy for clearing that all up.

Quite from Silinar:
Lions Dens manifesto/policy says they should not attack any neutrals under any circumstances. Their first hostile act in NW is against neutrals, go figure.

Velveta’s respose:

Originally posted by Velveeta


Lies.

Here is a quote from your clan’s website Velveta, accurate as of 1/14/03:

“PvP outside Arena
Don't attack Clan or Neutral players under any circumstances except in self defence or to defend another Lion. Its however allowed and encouraged to attack Omni players under any circumstances.”
…
“Remember that you represent your whole guild as a member, so take these rules seriously and don't do anything not mentioned here that will make you or the guild look bad in the eyes of our fellow clanners or neutrals. “

Sorry Velveta, but you’re in the wrong. You just don’t have it in you to admit it.

Originally posted by Velveeta


We're certainly not friendly towards EO. We haven't attacked any other neutrals. Does that tell you something?

Considering were pretty much the only neutral landowners outside of NLC, it tells us you’re greedy for land.

Originally posted by Velveeta


Gonna be doing that in 75%? As you've seen, while you sit here and try to talk smack, you lose your bases. We hold Mort, we helped destroy your TLR base and if your CAV base isn't already gone, it will be soon. We offered peace to you and you didn't take it. Now it's your turn to come to us as we've clearly shown you that you have no chance.

Attack all you want, were at war after all. And although we may be smaller guild we’ll still fight you every step of the way despite being the underdog. Take away the rest of our lands and we have even less to lose.

I haven’t heard anyone “talk crap” except for Lions Den’s sorry excuse for a peace proposal. LD did go against their charter by taking EO’s base in mort and then making a half-hearted effort to make peace. EO has every right to be pissed. If you view mort as Clan territory cool, and you really want that XP bonus, then fine, but please change your guild info accordingly when you can’t live up to your manifesto.

[______________Shikhi]

Considering were pretty much the only neutral landowners outside of NLC, it tells us you’re greedy for land.

Maybe that should tell you something too then.. keep your neut bases around neut cities.. that's where they belong.

This conversation is boring already - I'm not here to argue with you guys. If you want to fight, do it. We're always ready, and we love to spill blood. If you want to take us on... we'd enjoy it. This forum head butting gets us nowhere though.

We're pretty much done with you at this point - you have nothing we particularly want and you're not really a threat to us. If you want to keep the charade up though, then go ahead.. the worst thing that could POSSIBLY happen to us is that we lose Terraform Edge for oh, 18 hours while we're asleep

I'll be blunt - I don't really care about peace between Lions Den and Elite Operations - you have admitted you're mercs for hire and that puts you outside of the 'neutral' category, so our website information doesn't apply to you. Again, we haven't attacked any TRUE neutrals and don't intend to. Keep twisting it around all you want though.. it's not like you have any support.

Oh, btw.. if what will really make you happy is for us to change our info to say 'don't attack any neutrals except Elite Operations' I'd be more than happy to update that in the morning Let me know.

[___________Lady Kali]

LOL!

Lookie here, once again a non neutral dictating what he *THINKS* neutral should be. Why don't you just beat a dead horse?

[_______________Sware]

Why dont you just get a grip and look what EO is from another perspective...
Its not like you are adored by your neutral bredrins as well.
Everyone gets whats coming to them regardless of what faction they are.
You work for the highest bidder? We dont deal with mercenaries on political ground. Either sort out your priorities as a neutral or welcome the consequences.

[______________Lyzian]

Children, Children...looks to me like, they don't like us, we don't like them, and we're not going to find a common ground. Big Deal. However, if we're going to fight, lets do it on the battlefield rather than the forums. So far, all I've heard from EO/EA is complaining...hey guys, I understand, when LD gets a base taken from us i'm pissed too, but I don't start some argument with the people who took it from us. Kids these days....




(And for the record on this "Sumokan in TLR" business, Sumokan has an alt, a crat or engi I believe and the name is similar to his...maybe this is who you guys are talking about?)

[_____________Binabeq]

Ok this post is getting unbelievingly out of hand.

Lets start with the Mort Base. The decision to take the base from EO was taken for good reasons. It was close to our alliance neighbours and it was firmly set in clan territory and not already held by a clan.

To EO, your neutrality is all good and well, and true to our statement on our website we have no problem with neutrals. But if you build offensive towers on our land, and let's be clear Mort IS our land, it is a different matter entirely. Forget the Tir Accord being annulled. OT will say we have no land anymore, but our sense of identity and heritage say otherwise and as shown many times, we will fight for it.

Setting up your base in Mort was your first big mistake. Offensive towers, ones which will fire on clanners when at 25% on their own turf are unnacceptable. I don't want to be hunting sand demons in my back yard, wandering through friendly tower bases as I do, and wander into your 25% base to get ganked by all your defences.

As has been said before, keep Neutral bases to neutral areas and we will be happy to help neutral guilds if they are attacked by omni. If we see an omni guild take over a tower spot in neutral territory, and we are not busy defending our own towers, we are likely to help take down the OT base and hand the area back to a deserving neutral guild.

Now we get to it, the fact that every EO member wants to hide, but which we all main loyal to. Whilst many of us might question the validity of neutrality, we have made a decision that OT are our principle enemy, and neutral guilds can often be good friends. In the past we have had good contact with neutral guilds. Two highly placed neutral guilds including the notable Independant RubiKans were of great assistance to Lions Den in the resolution of that encrypted disc incident a while back for example.

It is ONLY EO who have incurred the wrath of Lions Den. We were willing to make some form of reparation after our attack in Mort and indeed were in the process of formalising a meeting to discuss this when EO attacked us back. Diplomacy didn't so much fail, as was discarded by EO when they got impatient. Too bad for them. We have no other problems with any other neutral guild, so please don't cause problems under some mistaken idea of faction-loyalty. EO has made their bed, and they will be forced to lie in it - dead, if they attempt to attack our bases again.

This is all. These are the facts. It is useless to say much more, so lets draw a line under this, and get back to our business. As a member of the Foreign Relations Dept. in Lions Den I remain available to any neutral who wishes to voice their concerns to me, and I'll happily put you straight on matters of ongoing policy.

[______________Shikhi]

EO == Invader Zim

[___________Lady Kali]

First, it was conveyed as a mistake…

Then it was blamed on omni trickery, and refused to name those responsible when asked to.

Then Velveeta says it wasn’t omni trickery, implying that it was Clan trickery…

Now Iscariot comes along with the explanation above. You’re very inconsistent.

Last I checked, Hope is a neutral city, is it not? Then by your own standards we have every right to place a base in Mort. Drumdar in TLR is also neutral, we built our bases to the east and west of Drumdar, by your own standards we have every right to place our bases there also. Don’t contradict yourself.

As for EO being your enemy, that’s a situation you created. We never had any issues with you until you took our Mort base without provocation. You repartition offer was a joke, a cheap attempt to pawn us against your Omni enemies. It was insulting to our neutral alignment to even hear of it, and when we tried to work out alternatives your diplomacy was nothing short of evasive. Maybe you should have thought about that before you invaded our base in Mort in the first place, or at the very least make a sincere attempt at negotiating peace instead of blowing off our diplomat who spent a month trying to negotiate with you.

What I see is you frantically fishing reasons out of the sewer to justify yourselves, perhaps you didn’t expect us to stand up for ourselves.

[Vixentrox]

Originally posted by Iscarriot


Setting up your base in Mort was your first big mistake. Offensive towers, ones which will fire on clanners when at 25% on their own turf are unnacceptable. I don't want to be hunting sand demons in my back yard, wandering through friendly tower bases as I do, and wander into your 25% base to get ganked by all your defences.

Offensive towers? Towers are defensive by their very nature, they are incable of attacking, only defending a set peice of turf. As for Neutral towers firing on Clan in 25%, why don't we hear the same excuse about Clan towers firing on Clan at 5%.

The ICC deregulated all these mining areas for ANY faction. The original people to build on a set plot of land have the right to be there. Anyone else taking a base could be called a claim jumper and a theif. Now the original ownerships are so muddied that the entire planet has gone to "might makes right" mentality.

It makes me sad that the greed of a Clan guild has started a downslide that is going to drive the some of the Neutrals to always siding with Omni. Who cares if the Neutrals have a half-dozen or so mines when Omni has 100 for the taking? If your going to violate the ICC edicts you may as well do it against the prime enemy.

[_____________Binabeq]

Originally posted by Lady Kali
First, it was conveyed as a mistake…

Then it was blamed on omni trickery, and refused to name those responsible when asked to.

Then Velveeta says it wasn’t omni trickery, implying that it was Clan trickery…

Now Iscariot comes along with the explanation above. You’re very inconsistent.

I am not denying trickery was involved, nor am I making desperate attempts to dig LD out of some supposed hole. We are doing fine, and certainly don't see EO as a serious threat or problem. We had been scoping out many bases close to our alliance friends including the Mort base and in that sense, I was absolutely correct to say that the base was convenient for us, but my colleagues in the guild are likewise correct about the underhand tricks played throughout the incident.


In response to Vixentrox, I have to defend against the statements of greed. I agree wholeheartedly that the prime enemy is Omnitek, and see no need to pursue any vendetta against neutrals, nor do I intend to do so. The EO situation was complicated to say the least, and I will not make excuses on behalf of the guild - it is not my place. We at LD have been making concerted efforts to take OT bases and undermine their attacks on our clan neighbours, and will continue to do so. I will be happy if I never have to raise my rifle against a neutral ever again. And I think that is up to the neutrals now. We cannot rewrite the past - only look to the future, and that is what I intend to do.

[_______________Viray]

I am not here to argue trival matters or pick at the current wounds, I only present the facts and ask what of the future?

1. Specific Clan Org's have destoryed Neutral Org Towers for their own benefit and benefit
2. Specific Clan Org's have tried to paint EO as a enemy of Clan Org's everywhere
3. Specific Clan Org's have been unwilling to approach a compromise to any degree with EA/EO
4. Clan Org's have invaded numerous Neutral Territories.

To explain #4 I would like to point out a statement that was made here earlier about Neutral Towers being in Clan Territory. I can see the slight logic behind this however current as of today (1/15). 17 Towers by Clan Org's alone are in regions surrounding the two Neutral Cities, and in the four VERY WELL KNOWN designated Neutral areas.

Current LC Image via AO site... Neutral Zones highlighted in blue:
http://photos.georgiairon.com/nurgle...ntean_neut.jpg
Areas highlighted are: Stret West Bank, Holes in the Wall, Varimint Woods, and Newland Desert.

By your own arguement as Neutrals should we not destory Omni & Clan Towers in these areas as it is "our" land? Would you not defend these towers as they are Clan or would you LD (among others) respect our rights to Neutral Terrority (as you want us to respect yours)? Or can you too flip-flop over the fence?

As a member of Elite Academy I have watch this war develop between LD & EO, to later become an issue as LD spread word that we were siding with Omni, attacked towers for no reason, and didn't seek out peace. All of which are untrue.

The only thing stated for a fact is that LD attacked our tower (reason is irrelavant) and has not either:
a. made any offers to compensate for the cost of said towers
b. made any effort to discuss matters beyond their own gain

I am all for dipolmacy however no one has extended that gauntlet with any true meaning on coming to terms or compromise. We don't get a title board, no shiny tokens to say that we are allied to our cause. We are only what our word is, and you have reached out to tarnish it, and this in itself is wholely unacceptable.

I urge you and any other Clan Org's with Neutral Policies to once again put some honor in you own words beyond your tokens... I will be happy to discuss any matter with you or any other Clan Org.

On a side note, to those that don't understand being a Neutral, I will say this. We Neutrals are the free traders, colonists, and citizens of Rubi-ka. Not all of us are peaceful, and not all of us are war mongers. We are a group of people that exsist and live on Rubi-ka for many different reasons beyond the conflict of Omni-Tek and the Clans.

Being Neutral does not mean being defenseless or harmless.

[Vixentrox]

Originally posted by Viray

I urge you and any other Clan Org's with Neutral Policies to once again put some honor in you own words beyond your tokens... I will be happy to discuss any matter with you or any other Clan Org.

Umm...what do you think I have been doing since the wars started?

[Bionitrous]

Question: If there was a level 250 LC area just behind the cliffs surrounding Newland City, who do you think would control it?

You already know the answer.

This isn't about anything more than tic-tac-toe. No one wants to put anymore effort into this game than achieving level 200 or making sure the game board is all blue or all red.

I just hope that when it IS all blue or all red, that FunCom will delete all towers, game over, and think of a way to implement them properly next time.