EQB = Full Damage = BS

[Spluggorth]

Originally posted by Divinecross
Since you put EQB ingame guessing the idea of the game now is to give full damage back to some.

Here you have weapon sucking around 1500-2700 hp a wack going pretty fast if use flurry. Can kill any profession almost instantly if used correctly in combo. Faster can cast fast Reasonace given I dont fumble it or get countered plus the EQB will more often than my nuke would land.

Never seen pvp damage like this since back in the full damage days. Might well give everyone full damage not just good 2hedge professions :P

Learn to play instead GIMP

[Zepher]

Can yall stop the damn nerf whining for once? and just play the game instead of go whining on the forums?

Cope with it!

Or change profession or leave the game ... but dont go whining here plz...

soo fkn sick of it really

[Snuble]

Abrikoosje: Yeah, watch out or I'll get my Main! (jeeeez)

[Julka_Pomy]

Damn those NTs they got antifixer nuke now they want Anti <inserrt al proffesions one by one here> nukes.

[Julka_Pomy]

Btw i am still waitng on my celestiall ithaca of doom. with 300-600(100) Damge 1.5/1.1 Attack/Recharge AS every 10 seconds and Burst every 10 seconds.

And also can i have Dots that do quadruple damge to NTs and ignore nulity and while we on it maybe 100% immunity to debuffs buff that lasts 3 hours. Hm i wouldnt mind self only nano pool heal that cost 200 nano and heals for 10000 nano pool what ah also please medical armor with 10k AC and +3000 to defence and 1000 to offence and 100 to all nano skills which also reduces recharge time of nano programs by 90%

I know its offtopic but dotn we all want this?

And if you dont have it doesnt mean that others shouldnt have it.

[Razzitazz]

Considering the easy time docs have with NT's due to slows and ammo vs. nano pool, I don't understand how any nerf calling to the NT can come from a doc.

Hell I don't understand how a doc can call nerf on anything.

[Sheffy]

Nerf Docs!

Actually, Funcom is slowly nerfing us with these Dot/init debuff removing items, and the other new items which give you an innate resistence to them. But that's alright, lets see how it goes anyway

[_______________North]

Funny. Resisted on a ENF 3 times in a row with RB. I can't see how EQB resist's or miss when you die before even NS gets up. Im quite tired of some saying eqb is balanced and defending it because its truelly not a balanced weapon. I had hoped someone would reason with you and the ones that says it isnt overpowered would understand it is. I dont care anymore.. Say what you want.

I could not agree more here with Hajk. Also, adjusting EQB is not a nerf against Enforcers only. The weapon can be used by most professions. However, with all the things enfs got, it really becomes too powerful to be fought against.

Enforcers did not have a bad damage before either, I think the problem was mainly with the choice of weapons they had. There is more choice now and even more coming in the next patch it seems, but nothing that can come even close to EQB. So again you will be down to one viable solution...

Phione, did a good analysis on this issue, could not find the thread...if someone does please post it here.

[____________Anikitos]

Have you read what other ppl are saying about the EQB and enfos? Have you read our side?

Or do you continue to think with the arena 1vs1 mentality.

Do you have a TL6 Enforcer?


If not......you know what to do.


By the way, what class do you play and what lvl are you.
I can take a good guess, but i let you enlighten us with the tremendous insight in the game you seem to have.

[Snuble]

Some numbers for the sake of discussion:

A melee adv will outdamage any ranged profession in a team mission.

A SOL/scissor combo, with typical 1.3AR, 750MI and against 6K armor will do 23750 points of damage over 60s (excluding specials!). A beam enforcer used to do a little more than that...

A EQB advent (if its possible) would have 1.1AR, 910MI. Translates to 31455 points of damage every 60s.

Now enforcers. Its typically 1.5K AR and 1.1K MI right? Might be a problem keeping that up for 60s? Anyway, it translates to 54108 damage in 60s.

And then the MI they use to brag about when they don't defend the new toy, 2.2K MI: 135270 points of damage over 60s. Of course thats not 60s... Its 28/32 (160ish FoB). But still 91983 points of damage proveded that FoB where uses during part of the 60s.

Oh, Edge of Tara, 1.2K MI, 1.5K AR, 28 hits, 38472 points.

A QL 200 beam, 22 hits, 24442 points.

With the new melee weapons coming, about ~55K seams to be the non FoB damage done by enforcers. Thats not balance. Its unbalancing. Its a 376% increase for any beam wielding enforcer. Is it any wonder that every enforcer is running around with a QB?

[Snuble]

By the way, what class do you play and what lvl are you.
I can take a good guess, but i let you enlighten us with the tremendous insight in the game you seem to have.

Yes, its perfectly balanced and fair gameplay that a profession can outdamage another damage class by 3.

[Palmero]

i will not giw my coment on EQB, but all this BS about NT damage has to stop..

first off all NERF the god damn anti fixer nuke. i dont want it i never wanted it, and calling it a NT fix is sad.

RB... hmmm yes this is a good nuke but ther is ONE problem, its NOT hard to resist and it cost NANO, this meen that a NT can run out of "ammo" a EQB cant. RB can black hole EQB cant do that..

so EQB can miss.. and RB can fummble be resisted and it can black hole..

and to the ENF that is talking about NS mk 2 as a uber item should try it.. its nice in 1vs1 and its not good in tower wars.
be in semi god mode for 19 secs and then what.. u cant run when u use NS mk2.. so the Omni army will be next to u when it dropps..

i dont giw a sheet if EQB is doing 100k damage every sec, but i do think that NTs should do more damage (becous we dont have 10k+ HP, heals, nice NR and a damage shield).

so do what you say we should do, play a NT to lvl 185+ and then come back and say that we do uber damage that kicks EQBs butt..

becous nanos can be counterd they can fumble and ther is a bugg in the game that is called Black hole AND(!!) we cant AOUT nuke, so we dont attack wen we want to, we attack wen the server think we should attack

[Nealandbob]

Originally posted by Snublefot
Some numbers for the sake of discussion:

A melee adv will outdamage any ranged profession in a team mission.

A SOL/scissor combo, with typical 1.3AR, 750MI and against 6K armor will do 23750 points of damage over 60s (excluding specials!). A beam enforcer used to do a little more than that...

A EQB advent (if its possible) would have 1.1AR, 910MI. Translates to 31455 points of damage every 60s.

Now enforcers. Its typically 1.5K AR and 1.1K MI right? Might be a problem keeping that up for 60s? Anyway, it translates to 54108 damage in 60s.

And then the MI they use to brag about when they don't defend the new toy, 2.2K MI: 135270 points of damage over 60s. Of course thats not 60s... Its 28/32 (160ish FoB). But still 91983 points of damage proveded that FoB where uses during part of the 60s.

Oh, Edge of Tara, 1.2K MI, 1.5K AR, 28 hits, 38472 points.

A QL 200 beam, 22 hits, 24442 points.

With the new melee weapons coming, about ~55K seams to be the non FoB damage done by enforcers. Thats not balance. Its unbalancing. Its a 376% increase for any beam wielding enforcer. Is it any wonder that every enforcer is running around with a QB?

Okay.....first off, I'm a 1hE Enforcer. Have been for well over a year, even through all the time it sucked. Since you insist on bringing Adventurers into this, I think I'm pretty qualified to give my own analysis. You can't just shrug off the Specials that 1hB/1hE gets, they're an integral part of the overall picture. Brawl/Dimach/Fast Attack/Sneak Attack is yummy. Adventurers get SOL's(that I can't EVER use.....and yes, I sure would like to), similar Edged buffs(although I admit I haven't looked at 'em), AND you get Multi buffs(although lvl-locked, and again, I'm not familiar with them).

The SOL is a superior weapon to either the Byom or Rider. How many Adv's do you see using those anymore? Yet at lvl200, my current combo is Byom/Scissor as an Enforcer. And with your Multi buffs, you'll be able to equip a good bit higher offhand weapon than an Enforcer, furthering the advantage.

I couldn't self-equip my Scissor until lvl198 due to no Multi buffs for Enforcers. Before lvl198, my combo was Byom/Rider. But, hey.......I didn't whine, because Adv's are supposed to be the Multi masters. I made do with what I had. I never whined about not being able to use the SOL either; even though it is clearly superior(slightly lower dmg than Byom, but much faster and much higher AR due to no HW req), and I *did* envy you for it. Still do. That Blackpete is another sweet weapon, btw.......I'm puzzled why Adv's don't seem to use it, there was much drooling in the Enforcer Forum when it came out. All you had to do was get Brutal Thug(+89 1hB/2hB) from an Enforcer to rock with that baby.

NOW, for 2h stuff.........

The ONLY init advantage Enforcers have(possibly discounting skill color, not sure) over Adventurers that is Enforcer-specific is Rage. That's +350 inits for the highest one. So, if you make the same implant sacrifices, your inits with Flurry aren't too far off what an Enforcer can achieve. Not to mention that inits over 1200 are only 1/3 effective, so that +350 advantage is effectively only a 117 init advantage. Removing my scope and chain-Raging, I can have right at 1200 inits. Yes, then add Flurry.

Now, AR is where Enforcers will shine over Adv's. My current 1hE skill is 1070 with Behemoth/all Boosts/1hE Expertise/+89 buff. And +14 from my coveted new Smelly Butcher Gloves Assuming 1hE skill will transfer directly to 2hE(it will be slightly lower because 2hE is more Str-based), my AR would be 1322 with QB/EQB; the top Challenger gives +252AR.

And here's the kicker. I have 4200+ nanopool, comparatively quite large for an Enforcer. A single Rage/Challenger combo will drop me to about 55% nanopool instantly. Not to mention the quite large NCU consumption. And the Rage DoT(which does Fire damage, making Enf's particularly susceptable to your SOL Type F). Yes, these Enforcer nanos are quite good.......but they have some drawbacks too.

SO......let's take your above calc and substitute my own stats, then compare to the Adv stats. Above, you went from 1.1K inits pre-Flurry to 2.2K.....so I'll take your word that Flurry adds 1.1K, since I don't really know.

Melee Adv. 34950 dmg in 60 seconds. Dunno why this is higher than yours, did you forget to go full aggro on all your calcs?

My Stats. 52754 dmg in 60 seconds. Dunno why this is lower than yours, all I changed was AR and init. But yes, it's still quite a difference.

For the next calcs, all that will change is inits from the above to simulate Flurry. I'll add 1.1K to both. I dunno how you did the conversion, so I'll leave it alone.

Melee Adv+Flurry. 104850 dmg in 60 seconds. Wow......you're saying Adventurers can't use this thing?

My Stats+Flurry. 121740 dmg in 60 seconds. VERY, very good damage, for sure. Of note, lower than your above numbers for some reason again.

So.......yes, Enforcers are able to out-damage Adventurers with EQB. But proportionally, not by a WHOLE lot. Especially considering that this plays completely to Enforcer's strongest points. At top speed, an Enforcer will do roughly 16% more damage, almost totally due to higher AR with Challenger. Compare that to the 51% difference at the lower inits. Without Challenger, the AR of Enforcers and Adv's would be virtually identical, and the difference in inits with Flurry so close to be negligible.

By crying for nerf, you just cut your own throat. As inits increase(with Flurry), the damage differential between Enforcers and Adventurers CLEARLY decreases. And speed is what is going to be nerfed. Have a nice day

edit: the same should hold true for ANY profession using EQB. Enforcers will always be able to use this weapon to its greatest potential, more than any other profession. But using Flurry for the temporary init increase will reduce the damage differential.(percentage-wise).

[Portulis]

Ok, Adv here.

I don't think Queen Blade needs to be nerfed damage wise, but I do think slowing it down some makes sense.

I don't play a melee adv but Neal brought out a few points I think need to be addressed.

Sure, adv can equip queen blades. At 200, I could achieve a 1200 attack rating with one, maybe a little higher with special items (butcher gloves, 2he armor, etc.). I think melee inits on an adv sans scope would max around 900ish. Adv have light blue init skills. Fast attack is light blue also, so would max at 900 also.
With enf buffs, our inits would be higher but we don't always have those available.

So, for PVM, adv with queen blade would rock, no doubt.

PVP different story. Adv have lower evades, and lower HP, so running around in full aggro swinging the blade would be suicide.
Also no root protection worth mentioning-you just don't see melee adv at tower battles. So, while Queen Blade sounds like a fine adv PVM weapon, it would be a terrible choice for PVP adventurers.

[Nealandbob]

Yeah, sorry More...........you know I love ya

But Snuble was being a pain for no good reason. I had to make the facts clear.

By only adding Flurry into the Enforcer calcs, he gave the impression(intentional or not) that only Enforcers are able to use it. Which is simply NOT true. *Anyone* who uses EQB can also use Flurry. Only to differing degrees of success.

Again, I just had to make that clear.

[Julka_Pomy]

Originally posted by Piercingevil
Considering the easy time docs have with NT's due to slows and ammo vs. nano pool, I don't understand how any nerf calling to the NT can come from a doc.

Hell I don't understand how a doc can call nerf on anything.

I am not crying for nerf. Why should i? I dont care about resonance blance or EQb ask those people who have RB and EQB and fought me how i got them sended to reclaim.

What i find is funny thats its NT who is crying for nerf of EQB. NT who has EQB that has 40 meeters range uploaded. Same NT who can do damge that enforsers cant even dream of.

I think NT > Enforsers in mass combat when it comes to being devastating. Sure NT die in 2 hits to Enforsers in duels or in mass combat.
Yes nt has poor HP and defences and enforser on the other side have best HP in game and ok defences.

Damage
Lets take 30 seconds of NT life and 30 seconds of enforser life.
Lets say fight is 20x20.
In 30 seconds NT does 5 Keils thats 1k damge each on 15 people (lets say 5 resisted) 1 fumbeled ok i take one fumbeled. So thats 4 keils on 15 people. Thats 60k damgage.
Enforser in those 30 seconds does 2 trips into lines of enemy having all of them on him and lets say he did both trips and came back each time which is not likely. While he was in enemy lines he did maybe 2-3 hits which are 6k damge. each so while NT does 60k Damge Enforser only does 12k at the best.
But NT can simply hide behind comrades backs and enforser has to put himself under bullets.

Advantages/disadvantages.
Now lets take a look at what NT have and what enforsers have.

Enforsers have Chalanger/weapon buffs ok its good NT dont have buffs for their main attacking skills. (1 point to enforser)

Enforser has HP Yes 14k vs 6k HP is big difference. (1 point to enforser)

Enforser has Layers Nt also hav elayers (0 points)

Enforsers have rage NT dont have anything to boost nano resistace or inis but they are gettign MP protection buff in futre patches (i give 1 point to enforsers for now)

Enforsers have mongo Cant say much of it (1 point to enforser)

Enforser has damge shield Its good prety same as NT enframs line except for refect (tie)

Enforsers have essence Yes just like most of other who pvp and NT have HE/Reduction which also are running on most people who pvp (tie)

[i] NT have range{/i] And its 40 meters vs 6 meters of enforser range (5 points to NT we can argue but mele always been in disadavatage in mass pvp vs ranged in all MMORPG)

NT have nulity good nano (1 point to NT)

NT have roots thats also usefull (1 point)

NT have debuffs AC debuffs, nano skills debuffs (1 point to NT)

NT have blinds Realy good nano (1 point to NT)

NT have stuns Which are attached to nukes but enforsers also have chance to stun on brawl (tie)

Nt have Calms With ini debuff atached to them plus good on pets (1 point to NT)

NT have Area Nukes I already said that they are 4 times more effecitve damge wise then EQb (4 points to NT)

NT have fumbles Been said by developers and posted by cosmic every offecive action has 3% chance to fumble enforsers also fumble maybe it doesnt show but they do (tie)

Nt have blackholes All i can say enforsers have crowd control (tie)

NT ammo is limited Yes i dont forget that (5 poitns to enforser)

NT have guns that has special plus nuke just had to bring it up (1 point to NT)

Enforser can move and hit Good thing in some cases (1 point to enforser)

NT have specific proffesion nukes what can i say (1 point to NT)

Ok so lets put up results
Enforser 10
NT 16


Resonance Blast vs Enchated Queen Blade
Now lets finish up and see whats better Resonance Blast or EQB

Getting it RB drops from agent special lamb EQB drops from Diamonde Soldier both mob can be easely done by 2 teams who know what they doing. But you need to have first QB and that may turn into 2 hours of camping smuglers den (1 point to RB)

Requemtns EQb lvl 185+ RB lvl 195+ (1 point to EQB)

Range EQb 6 meters RB 40 meters (1 point to RB)

Ammo EQb - unlimeted RB - limited by nano pool (1 Point to EQb)

Damge they both are very same (tie)

Speed On full offence they are prety close (tie)

defences RB can be resited EQb can be evaded (tie)

Prety much all summs up that they same. But if you put range on first place you wills get a picture that NT hits you with EQb from 40 meters away.

So is EQb uber? No
Are enforsers uber? NO

Do we need nerfing? NO just some people need to get over with this mmd/2HO/arena crap and start to think about whats strong in tower fights

[Snuble]

The SOL is a superior weapon to either the Byom or Rider.

Nope, they have about the same damage over time. Been analyzed trough and trough at the adv forums. The byom and rider will infact perform better than a SOL with higher AMS and melee init.

[Snuble]

Do we need nerfing? NO just some people need to get over with this mmd/2HO/arena crap and start to think about whats strong in tower fights

And forget about the PvM part? The one reason enforcers do well in tower fights is high NR and the ability to break roots.

Take away that, and it wouldn't matter if the QB did 1M damage in 10s...

Again, EQB is *not* overpowered in PvM. BUT it is overpowered in PvM. There is new weapons coming, that will take other professions within 30% of enforcer damage, but do we really want fixers in GA4 doing 80% EQB damage? Or NTs using a gun that tops their nuke damage with 80% enforcer damage? Or the only way to win at uniqes is having a damage team of 6 enforcers? Why would there even be a need for supporting damage dealers when the tank does most damage of them all?

Another problem is, a "slow" high damage weapon have a very significant advantage over a fast/low damage weapon. Why? the 1/1 cap. A fast weapon will get to the cap, and no matter how much init you throw in there or using a FoB or whatever, it will not increase its damage. A slow weapon on the other hand, will take full advantage of that init increase and while fully balanced at its base speed, will increase its damage as inits go up... Thats where the real problem is. And thats a problem Funcom already is aware of.

My *personal* opinion is that a tanking class should never be the best damage dealers is based on game mechanics and game balance. And 20 years of gaming experience (back to where the new and shiny thing where the C-64 ).

[Snuble]

Nealandbob: Hmm... I accidentaly copied the 750 MI number it seems. Still... Its 35K against 52K damage. And remeber that 35K damage is about where adventurers will be with the new 1he drops dual wielded...

Thats not balance at all. The balance between the enforcer profession and the adventurer profession should be in other areas than damage output. And remember one thing Nealandbon. The 35K damage that an adventurer will do is more than any other profession out there can do. FunCom just made a game where the tanking class is damage kings. Thats broken game design.

While specials are nice, they don't contribute much to damage over time. Just to take the example of the very nice SOL Fire (that was a very nice addition when it first was introduced, but is sliding behind with the new weapons introduced to the game...).

There is a bug in the way AMS is displayed in the game. Any "add all offensive" is displayed doubled. So while my 1he is 1K, and the AMS is showed as 1250ish, it is in reality an attack rating of 1150ish. For the number I use 1.2K AMS and 750 MI (enough to go 1/1).

30 hits translates to 16170 points of damage. Dual wielding will bring the total of hits to 37-38. In teory it should be 40, but tests with a stop watch is giving numbers between 37-38. That is 20428 points of damage. On top of that it will be about 3K damage from specials.

But Snuble was being a pain for no good reason

I don't think you know me very well. If I was given a weapon this overpowered, I would be one of the first to mention it. Why break a game that is fun to play? Thats what I'm on about. The EQB exposes the advantage of a slow hard hitting weapon have in the game. I just can't understand why Funcom didn't realize this *before* introducing it in the game...

[ca0l]

Originally posted by Julia
Enforser Enforser Enforser Enforser...

After 2 years in the game Julia, I know you know how to spell -E-N-F-O-R-C-R-E- .. doing it to tease, aren't you?