Redemption is the devil
Redemption is the devil
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Damn straight.Originally posted by Turin
Redemption is the devil
Actually, it looks like the people making the complaint got to the battle a day late and a dollar short.
You can't "call dibs" on a base in that situation and expect the people who were already there to acknowledge it.
Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
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That is not a number I just made up. I looked it up in the logs, and if my memory serves me right, the first registered attack (only guilded attacks show up as registered, and we attacked with unguilded alts) shows up at 14:02, RkM entered a state of war about 14:50.Originally posted by Gamavir
And for Cold to say that the others weren't there for 50 minutes, when it's been refutted that they were there 1 minute after Red. attacked, and the remaining forces only 5 minutes away, you have to try to look at it from an outsiders viewpoint.
The site I use to look theese up only shows logs for a certain time, and this attack is already scrolled out of their history. But I did look it up the second they started arguing with us over the land, and it was around 50 minutes after the first guilded attack was registered on that site.
I'm sure someone has their own logs of this and can confirm my numbers.
PWNED!!!!!111Originally posted by Coldstrike
That is not a number I just made up. I looked it up in the logs, and if my memory serves me right, the first registered attack (only guilded attacks show up as registered, and we attacked with unguilded alts) shows up at 14:02, RkM entered a state of war about 14:50.
The site I use to look theese up only shows logs for a certain time, and this attack is already scrolled out of their history. But I did look it up the second they started arguing with us over the land, and it was around 50 minutes after the first guilded attack was registered on that site.
I'm sure someone has their own logs of this and can confirm my numbers.
HAHAHA
Good work CS.
yea if there is any proof of either sides accusations...it would really end this whole argument in a snap.
as for explanations im not about to let red be attacked like this by completely subborn unreasonable people...ill xplain it all on a new thread
Disciple092 lv 200 Clan MA
l={::;;;;;;;;;;>Redemption<;;;;;;;;;;::}=l
So, an org that wasnt on a private channel (no matter how used by others its one you have to ask for an invite to,not readily avail on chat list) attacked a base that another org was planning on attacking? If you really have a problem with that why not just attack their base when it goes 5% and quit arguing?
Ooohh! There is that word again! "Carebear"! I have started to use this as a unique identifier for a guilty-as-heck exploiter who calls anyone protesting their actions "whiners".Originally posted by Cyblade7
If you think we are bending to your carebear ways....forget it.
As a Rimor Clanner this whole thread saddens me, not the ninja towering or not ninja towering, but the fact that the orgs involved are carrying out a public flame fest of truly unique proportions over some rather inferior and low lvl land.
On Rimor Clan has taken strength, unity and solidarity to the point where we have no fear of Omni at all. The only problem that remains is to crack that knotty ql 250 controller problem, and it's one we can tackle at our leisure really. Our only real concern is wrecking game play by utterly annihilating the Omni.
Unseemly squabbling over low lvl land is allowed for Omnis, because they are obviously evil slave driving fascists (ack! that basic role-playing sneaks in everywhere! Someone flame me before I get out of control), but Clanners really should try to take the moral higher road.
From what I see so far, the battle for Atlantean hangs in the balance: If you let discord over trivial matters sneak into Clan, then it will be your downfall.
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How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?
Disc~ how can you explain something based on biased information when you weren't there to witness it? In our discussion last night, we had an unbiased witness, and you didn't want to give up the tower because of people had already built there. "Convince Tortureyou to give it up, and it's yours" I remember you saying. Meaning, you heard unbiased information from someone, and I provided other names that were there for you to ask what happened.
I am responding because i see so much false information, and don't want to see Cold get too far along on her high horse.
Coldstrike: You can be invited to nwchat under level 150. I was there attacking that base with my lvl 106 engineer(Horsepower) and I was in nwchat, along with all the other lvl 100-150 people assisting us, and for those people checking these databases and what not... all RK-Mafia save a couple were too high lvl to attack that base, which is why we logged on our alts and you'll see the name "Untouchables" listed there. A raffle on the site? This thread was the first time i've heard of such a raffle. Must have been a Redemption only raffle... ex- Hey guys, let's raffle the site, so these gimps will feel better. <Red> Ok, cool... Red can pick 1. /tell helpbot roll 1 1. <Helpbot> I rolled a 1, verify 26. <Red> Woot! we won!!!
.
Dagringo- "You guys need Smooth back".... For your information, he logs on every now and then. I spoke with him as recently as last night. He is happy with the way things have been going within the guild. I believe you left the guild when Smooth was prez. I fail to see your point.
The deal is. RK-Mafia and myself, in conjunction with some Untouchables members, and other helpful clanners were planning this raid 1 hour prior to the attack. There WERE redemption people in nwchat that also participated in the raid in Greater Tir Co. I won't mention any names.. *cough* Tort... *cough* Ryosmurf...Evilmery. The reason I know why they were in? There wasn't any messages "xxx joined nwchat" after the raid, yet they were willing to express their righteousness of claiming that base soon after in nwchat. So my thoughts? If you are going to log into nwchat and attack a tower, express your intentions in nwchat FIRST. We did, you didn't. It will save us from things like this from happening in the future. Funcom doesn't recognize this as an official way to claim bases, this is true. However, if you choose to use this tool, be careful not to abuse it. It was designed for clanners to work more closely together, not what the facts are pointing to, which in this case... is that RK-Mafia planned this attack 1 hour prior to 25%. IF Red was planning on raiding it, AND you didn't need our help. SAY SO... I know you were hearing what we said in it well before you showed up. We would've called off our efforts had we known, but a COINCIDENCE that we both had raid planned at same time? hmm I'll let others make that decision on their own. Maybe it also was a coincidence that Messman stepped down as president within a Day after I told him of what happened. Maybe so.
I'm not going to waste much time on this, but I can't blame any guild members for going public with it. I was a bit upset myself after I saw how it was handled, and how upset my friends were after Red 'claimed' the site as their own. I can live with it, but... can YOU?
~E
P.S.~ You can have your base. I'm not about to get on my knees and beg Tort for it.
Hooray for everyone who wants to keel redemption now...
why dont you all go kill them with your fake accounts, fake characters, fake names, fake weapons, fake armor, and fake spells!
sw00t!
lol its just a game stop crying
Red. is ok with me
I'd like to add that Untouchables entered a state of war blah blah blah like 1 minute after as seen on nwchat. We may have had RK-M there, but myself and Motherjones were pet classes, and a few doctors healing, there were others of course, but unless FC fixed this, when pet classes attack towers, they do not register as an attack anywhere.
I was there 1hr+ before 25%. Tortureyou was there 10 minutes prior to 25%. We were both scouting. We were planning on raid 1 hr prior to 25%. We have nothing to hide from anyone when it comes to plans, as we believe we should work together. Why then, didn't Red share their plans of attacking, or as Tort put it "We DON"T NEED YOUR HELP" ... You were in nwchat Tort. why didn't you tell us in there? I'm sure you saw that we were moving to the site, and of course you wanted to start the attack first before all of us got there, so you could use that bit of information to stand on when u claimed the site. When i got there, along with the rest of our forces, i notices 1, maybe 2 towers destroyed at the most, but some of our forces were already engaged, that site took less than 50 minutes to take down, so the accurate times you are claiming, are a bit exaggerated or incorrect.
Tort- another thing.... RK-M has showed up for your bases defense as well. You can probably make the same argument about alot of bases, if friends didn't come to help out, the site wouldn't have stood as long as it has. It is nice to know who your friends are though.
~E
we both know we got nowhere after 1+hour of talking about this las nite.
telling you to convince tort ended our talks pretty fast i think,that was the plan at that point.It had nothing to do with unbiased info cause i havent heard much of it yet besides your witness in our private chat las nite.
your last 2 posts have good points,but like i said before i wasnt there.So i hope you'll understand some inconsistencies with these last few posts of ours and the thread i made since it was made after these
Disciple092 lv 200 Clan MA
l={::;;;;;;;;;;>Redemption<;;;;;;;;;;::}=l
This is from Nwchat's log. Keep in mind, though: my own organization has attacked bases on a few occasions where no notice was relayed to All Towers, so this data is not reliable.
What I see here is Army of One and Guild of Meta-Physics attacking 50 minutes before the rest. One could assume based on the earlier messages that Redemption was part of this attack and simply didn't trigger a notice.
Since I wasn't there, I don't have an opinion. But if any organization needs land, we'll be happy to help acquire some from Omni.
[2003-01-03 10:25:09 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Army of One just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 10:25:18 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Guild of Meta-Physics just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 11:14:18 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Lions Den just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 11:14:35 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Rage-Driven Pacifists just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 11:15:31 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Children of Eternity just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 11:16:18 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Untouchables just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 11:16:35 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization RK-Mafia just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 11:19:18 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization GridStream Productions just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 11:25:08 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Brotherhood of Dawn just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 11:27:05 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Rising Sun just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
"You asked to have a raffle for the land, and we won the raffle.."
We never asked for a raffle.
There was never was a raffle.
Therefore you could not win any raffle that never took place.
Where are you coming up with this? Were you there? Or is this just something meant to discredit what actually happened? If you weren't there then someone the person who said this is lying to you. If you were there, then you are lying.
Someone suggested a raffle, someone else laughed and said something like "what is this Tara?" That's all the talk of a raffle that took place there, it never happened.
We were there within minutes, we are not talking about a base in SFH or even SWB. This was in Greater Tir County. Most of us were gathered at the South gate in Tir. How long are Redemption saying it took, 45 minutes? It was less than 5 minutes from the first attack. I don't think anyone would buy this even someone who just started the game last week. You are just digging the hole bigger and bigger. Red.
If anyone has access to the logs please look at when the disabling of the shields took place. I went to the site afterwards to gather this information. Unfortunately the person took it down, this was that night as well as the day after. Cold, I don't know where you saw the info but please post the link mine isn't working any longer. Regardless, my low level crat is in RK-Mafia was there less than 5 minutes after the attack first started.
Our guild for lower level players is Untouchables. they disabled the shields within a minute after Redemption. If someone can find this info out I think you will see exactly who is telling the truth and who is lying. The logs from the tower raiding channel will clearly show this information as well. Anyone on NWchat could also verify exactly what went down and when. Everyone but Toolwoman that is.
If Red was there in such a big force why did you also have to wait the 20 minutes to place? I was under the impression that the base rights would be instantly yours if you did the most damage to a CT. Dunno if this is actually true. But if so, there goes the argument that you didn't need anyone's help doesn't it?
A low level base doesn't mean much. but it does if you don't have a tower site and you want to take part in NW. We'll find another, Red should do the same and just show everyone how good they are by giving it to another towerless org. You can make friends with that org as you have lost friends in this one.
But you won't, instead you traded your name Redemption. and what little honor you had left for a crappy site. I find that funny, but I also find it sad. It turned me off from going on NWchat and participating there for quite awhile. If you don't need others help as you said, then you should not be in NWchat. Using it as a tool to spy on raids is wrong. A high level org stating they weren't on it or that they were all on alts is just to add more confusion to this whole thing. There is no defense for what happened and lies and confusion seem to be the only thing you can do now Red. People who know the game can read through these lies.
Here's the shovel, there's the poop, just keep digging the hole wider Red. or hand the site to someone else. That's about the only thing you have left to do at this point to prove you're into working with others and not against them given the chance.
Finally I will say, yes you were there with some peeps helping us a few times in defending a base. I never said you were not. We were there for you as well. Were....
Edit: Thanks for posting that aaronb. When I went to the site to check it out before the attack. I saw one person in the Org of one standing there. He was not in the PvP zone he was just standing there. He was golden in color to my then 123 crat. No one else was at the site. I went there first after Elektro said lets get an attack going. The site was at 100 percent at the time. I was then invited to the tower raiding channel and the announcement was made where the towers were and the QL of the base.
There was an attack by Redemption that was apparently not logged. Going from memory, UT was the third org to disable the shields and it was less than a minute after Redemption's disable. People on the chat channel can confirm this as well.
Last edited by BlackoutGrey; Jan 8th, 2003 at 04:04:21.
Thanks Asmoran, was going to ask you if you had that stuff logged.Originally posted by aaronb
[2003-01-03 10:25:09 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Army of One just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
<..snip..>
[2003-01-03 11:16:18 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization Untouchables just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
[2003-01-03 11:16:35 GMT] [65] [All Towers] The clan organization RK-Mafia just entered a state of war! They attacked the omni organization OPEC's tower in Greater Tir County at location (1229, 3071).
Well. What do you know? 51 minutes? *cough*
Give or take a few minutes due to lag in the system, I wasn't too far off now was I?
Read my edit Cold above as well, where is the Redemption shield disabled message? I will state once again that is was before ours by about a minute.
Army of one was an army of one, no one else was there when I was at the site. Also they were not engaged in the towers at the time I was there. The site was still at 100 percent.
I just found out that all of the alts left RED so that the guild wouldnt be in a state of war.....if this is true it would explain why there was a 20 min wait to place CT and why there was no redemption attack message.
Im not saying this next part is true cause like i said i wasnt there,but keep open the possiblilty that the members of the first 2 orgs that attacked before the others charged within the safety of the group that the red member alts were in.
Disciple092 lv 200 Clan MA
l={::;;;;;;;;;;>Redemption<;;;;;;;;;;::}=l
I log absolutely everything.Originally posted by Coldstrike
Thanks Asmoran, was going to ask you if you had that stuff logged.
Again, there was a Redemption message.
We(Untouchables) were the third or forth State of War message which was within a minute of the Redemption message. The channel was silent of any war messages since I was invited in with my low level alt. Which was 30-40 minutes before I moved out of the gate in Southern Tir. That means Redemption did not attack until then. It also means according to what was shown that Guild of MP's and Guild of One did attack 50 min previously.
I do not hear the state of war messages unless on the tower attack channel. I do not know if that is a bug or because we don't have a tower. No idea. This changes one thing for me, which is we were not there for the first attack messages. This doesn't change Redemption's first attack time however on the towers. Restating this once more, it was one minute previous to our attack message not 50 minutes.
Can you find a bug that would explain this?
I want to now know who disabled in Org of One and Guild of MP's. They can state exactly where Red was and what they were doing. I have absolutely nothing to gain by this post. I want to know the truth and I want others to know it as well. So far I have heard a few things like this raffle which never took place. That still makes me very su****ious of what actually happened. I have stated truthfully what happened from my perspective. There are still some answers that are needed.
Ok, then maybe you actually have the one piece of information needed to put an end to this line of accusations.. I was on NWchat with coldstrike prior to this attack. Minutes before the gas dropped I logged off and logged on an alt that was already parked at the base. If you have the time when Coldstrike left the chat, then you also have the time for me arriving at the site.Originally posted by aaronb
I log absolutely everything.
If not, then I can not prove that I was there before the first attacks listed in the logs.
What I can say is that I had already been 2 trips to the reclaim by the time you guys got there. That's at least 20 minutes spent just resing and running back to the base from the junkbot mountain OP. I'm sure the only defender that showed up during the whole raid, Squiget, can confirm that she first sent me to reclaim first one time when she first appeared while I was tanking a tower, and then one more time when I chased her deep into the base and forgot that there would be lots of towers there shooting me to pieces.
Other than that, maybe the 180ish RDP guy who stopped by in some sort of red yalm can confirm us being there?
The reason why Redemption doesn't show up is because we attacked with unguilded alts, this is something I said in one of my initial posts in this thread. The reason for this is that Redemption is a 150+ guild, and only one non 150+ character is allowed per person. We found out that most of our guilded alts at the time were outside the PvP range of the base, so we had to use those that were not in the guild.
The one thing we did wrong, from your (RkM) point of view, was that we did not announce our raid on NWchat. And while I do recognize the chat as a great tool for communication and coordination of attacks, I do not see it as a legislative power, and I feel it has even less influence in battles over land under QL150. And this is what I think most clanners think of this tool, including Asmoran who made it.
Seriously guys, just admit that you got there almost an hour late and end this silly discussion already, and better luck next time. And as Disciple said, if you ever need help trying to take over land or defend land, just send me a tell, and I will try to help as much as I can.
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