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Thread: Redemption stole our base

  1. #1

    Thumbs down Redemption stole our base

    Remember this this thread:
    Diciple092 Colamonster Cronost Dagringo Vanhode Dralrias: still dont know what droped

    That was just a rehash of this thread:
    Tarasque and Redemption...

    Just to save some reading time it is the story of Redemption, how they KS'd Tara, leaving all else without anything. This is the Redemption of old and maybe they've changed. After all, everyone deserves a second chance.

    So grats on the big promotion Disciple092 who now is the leader of Redemption. The same person of course who was involved in the kill stealing. Looks like they picked the right person.

    I think Voorg before he left them had the best quote:
    "...Red adopted a save themselves policy and sold the rest down the river. "

    Remember now this thread recently posted by Patk9:
    No Base-*ninjaing* Policy

    Quoting Patk9:

    "This is a thread to put guilds in agreement that after the 20 mins is up and it becomes free for all you do NOT retake the land because the opposing/conquering side was unable to in that amount of time.

    Both Clan and Omni guilds are needed to join in on this agreement, base stealing is cheap and should not be tolerated.
    Legion had a base stolen by clan and Lost Chapter had a base stolen by Obsidian Order due to bugs and shouldnt have to happen again.

    Ranking officials from each of the major guilds and any other guilds should agree on this and to not do it. "

    The response from the president of Redemption, Disciple092:
    "I speak for Redemption,and we agree........."

    I really didn't want to bring this to the public light, that is why I waited to post this. I was hoping that after Disciple092 was contacted by my org president Elektro this could have been settled. After all I read the response that was given above. I don't think Patk9 really thought it would only apply to the opposite side ninjaing, maybe he did, dunno. I can't really answer to that, only Patk9 really can. What I do know is that Redemption will ninja bases from other clan orgs. I know this because that is exactly what they did to my org, RK-Mafia, last Thursday night.

    Here is how it went down.

    Both sides have tower raiding channels. The purpose is to announce raids, and to receive aid from other orgs when bases are attacked. There was a base in Greater Tir that my org, RK-Mafia was going to attack. One hour before the attack we announced it within our own channel. 30 minutes before the suppression fields were going to 25 percent we asked people in other orgs to join us for the fight on the tower raiding channel. I myself announced on the channel exactly where the tower was including the coordinates as well as the QL of the towers.

    Just as we were about to move out and get into position on the site came the message that Redemption had disabled the shields. Less than one minute later our lower level org Untouchables also disabled the shields. Some of us were on site, some of us, like myself were still at the main gathering point, waiting for our friends to come help us out. Many clanners came to help us out,, I say thank you to each of you.

    Redemption was not one of these.

    Instead, immediately after the battle they claimed the site was theirs. We were a bit in shock to be honest. A larger org which already held other higher level land, an org that RK-Mafia had fought for, died for and helped in both taking and defending Redemption bases was showing once again just how bad an org they really are.

    After the tower fell, people on the tower raid channel agreed that the site was ours. Elektro had announced the raid, had asked for people and was the main organizer of the battle. People came to help us out not Redemption. Redemption never stated on the channel that they were going to attack or that the raid was theirs. Only after the battle did they make this weak claim. Many high levels were there at the base who were in Redemption. These were people who had access to the tower raiding channel. Had they said that they had intended to attack we would not have organized a raid, we would not have claimed the land.

    It was a low QL base but it was better than what we had which is still nothing. Every time we fight we have PvP flags over our heads for 4 hours. This base was just right for us, in clan territory, the right QL base where many of players are now in level. Large enough for our members to fill up with towers. It would have made a good base for us.

    After the 20 minutes expired after the battle, they instantly raised their tower up. Ninjaing the base, ignoring all the people on the tower raid channel. Now there was a dispute, one that I was hoping the president of Redemption, Disciple092 would straighten out. He talked to my president tonight and refused to hand the land over to us. Something about how it would look like he was "caving in" to us , most notably Tortureyou. Caving in? Or doing the right thing?

    So now you have it, Redemption hasn't changed. They have only once again reinforced what Voorg said. Friends one day, only to stab you in the back the next. About the poorest excuse I heard about this was this from a high level Redemption member: "Funcom does not officially recognize that chat channel." Like we were going to petition on this land stealing? hehe, right...our only recourse is to expose what Redemption is all about.

    Some may ask if they were on the channel and maybe they didn't hear the 30 minutes of chatter as we organized the raid. Yes, they were there after the tower went up there they were with their sole supporter Toolwoman exchanging grats. They knew we were coming, they used the force that we asked to come to our aid. I believe they use the channel to spy on bases to attack. If it's a smaller org they will show up and take it away.

    That is Redemption.

    I now have to ask if the other orgs who maintain and use that channel will recognize Redemption any longer and allow their presence there. If their aim is to listen in on attacks so they can show up first and then claim land I do not think they should be allowed.

    Either way, I say to all of Redemption you have gained a chunk of land. But now I hope you find out just how much it has cost you. To all other clans I and players, I have to ask if you really want to be associated with such people who KS Tara? Who will spy on another clan's attack in order to steal the base? I have many friends in Redemption. I certainly do not mean to say all there are like this as I know there are some of the best people I have played with in Redemption. I ask these people I have known if this now, who I consider to be my friends, as well as those I do not know but do realize when honor has been trampled on, if this is something you also will endorse, just as your president has.

    Now it is a done deal. The place is all yours Disciple092. To all other clan orgs, just remember what happened. They will do it with the backing of their president as well as some generals. There is no place for this in the game and there is no more aid that is going to be received from our org RK-Mafia towards most of Redemption's players. We are through with helping them out in Notum Wars. What is the saddest part is that there are so many good people in Redemption who may not even be fully aware of what happened. I am sorry to lump the good with the bad in Redemption. However, if that is the org you have chosen, you will have to live with what the name "Redemption" now means to many others including my org.

    To other clanners as well as Redemption members, remember this incident, now that is over with. I know I will never forget it. This has made me feel just like Voorg, stunned, dismayed, and sick of a game I love for a period of time. I have levelled with many of you, been in orgs with you, given my players life in battles to you. Don't stay with them. I know there are good people there in Redemption, go find a better org. This one does not do you justice either. It is a word that will not be found in their dictionary. That's what RK-Mafia found out last thursday night and was reinforced by Disciple092 tonight.

  2. #2
    Ninja stealing always suck..

  3. #3
    Sorry to hear it BoG

    It's always a shame when good people are tranished by the actions of a minority of their org, but for the president of an org to support the action is saddening
    Craig 'Silirrion' Morrison
    Old Timer

  4. #4
    Guys.. You were 50 minutes late for a raid that lasted like 1h30m. and you claim ownership of it?

    Redemption was the first at the scene by far, and we did not ask for anyone else to come. People just came like a pack of vultures when they saw attack messages on NWchat.

  5. #5

    Thumbs down Reputation > all

    Perhaps it was poor communication. Did anyone from Redemption tell the raid channel that Redemption had already planned to raid it?

    No matter, Redemption, your reputation precedes you. I have known BoG a while now, and I'd take his word over anyone in Redemption.

    I'm not powerful. Not a lot I can do. But I can shun the org Redemption. It's the least I can do.

  6. #6

    Re: Reputation > all

    Originally posted by Ralgur
    Perhaps it was poor communication. Did anyone from Redemption tell the raid channel that Redemption had already planned to raid it?

    No matter, Redemption, your reputation precedes you. I have known BoG a while now, and I'd take his word over anyone in Redemption.

    I'm not powerful. Not a lot I can do. But I can shun the org Redemption. It's the least I can do.
    Well, since NWchat has a level req of 150 to join, unless you are one of the top 2 ranks in a guild, it sort of goes without saying that it's hard for a group capable of hitting a QL90-135 base to communicate on that chat.

    And the posts being refered to in Whompers post is all describing situations where someone other than those who were first at the scene, or someone that only played a minor role in an attack takes the spot. This is not the case here, Redemption was there first, and they put in at least as much effort as anyone else. When someone is out there hitting a base it is not up to a bunch of people on a chatline sitting in a 75% zone somewhere to decide the fate of that land.

    You might or might not have organized a raid, but the fact of the matter is that we had organized our own raid and was at the scene almost 1 hour before your crew. And I have never seen any agreement being made that people need to file an application on NWchat before they are allowed to attack a base.

    Don't start crying when you show up late for a party and there is no beer left.

  7. #7
    I'm not going to comment on what happend because I wasn't there.

    But I really don't think that anyone should count on NWchat for low ql base attacks, there is a lvl 150 req on bot and the people that are attacking can't be lvl 150.

    Even if guild have afew lvl 150+ people online it doesn't mean that they are in NWchat when attacking a low ql base.


    (This is just my opinion in general, have really nothing to do with this issue)
    Azzazzimon
    ICQ: 419860

    Clan Apocalypse - The guild for models

    Account closed.

  8. #8

    More deception....

    As I said before in my post, our low level org also put down the shields less than on minute later after Redemption. We were forming teams from other orgs at the south gate in Tir, the base was in Greater Tir county. That is not even a 50 minute walk. Using the team I was in as a an example, all of us with the exception of one person were in Yal's.

    Don't try to make it seem like being late puts you in the right as we were there at the site. All of us went from the gathering point to the base in less than 5 minutes later. Many just went to the base as well and not the south gate. The coord's were announced. High level players logged on their alts and went to help. So don't bring that argument to your defense it just shows more deception on your part.

    Redemption was on the channel and didn't say a word.

    After the fight, they were there to hear their lone supporter Toolwoman say grats to them. There was no "Tortureyou just joined the channel..." messages. They were on it the entire time. All they needed to do was say, "we are going to attack the base". Instead, they used the clanners who showed up including my org.

    Let's look at need now. They didn't need a base. They were not PvP flagged each tower battle. They recieved our aid with many attacks and defenses of their own bases. That was all forgotten, just stab your "friends" in the back. Play with Redemption and help them, it's your choice. I can only tell you what they will do given the chance.

    Let's hear the next deception now, as there is no defense for their actions. If they are not going to use the tower raiding channel they should not be on it. Paraphrasing again what one of the shouted out, "Funcom does not officially recognize it." Neither does Redemption apparently, it's just a tool to take advantage of smaller orgs.

    One thing I do want to correct however, each of us in RK-Mafia will decide if we want to help out Redemption in the future. I have made my choice and many others have as well. No help with anything will come from most of us.

    Change your ways Redemption, stop the deception and bad game play. As for the site, give it to another needy org. Fine you can't hand it over to us as this would be "caving in". Give it to a smaller org. At least try to do the right thing which includes helping out others, thats really what this whole game is about.

    Edit: Were you there Coldstrike? Or did you base your post on what you were told. That's the whole reason for this to expose what happened and to tell how your org behaved. The truth has to be realized, not more deceptions.
    Last edited by BlackoutGrey; Jan 7th, 2003 at 18:19:32.

  9. #9

    Re: More deception....

    First of all, Redemption has helped a lot of organizations both defend and capture land. Every single day. We have also had people helping you get your previous base, and also to defend it. Don't try to present us like a group of people who just show up when it's in our own interest, because that just isn't true.

    Now let's assume for the sake of this discussion that we both had two completely separate raids organized at this location. Then you did us just as much wrong by denying our claim to that land. And the way I see it, we did have at least as much right to build there as you do. Our fault was that we didn't announce it on a chat that none of the attack force had access to because of a level restriction.

    Or maybe because we didn't specifically inform your guild that we were going to attack that base, we forfeited our rights to build there?

    And who says we didn't need that land? Why would we organize a raid there unless we felt we needed it?


    But it's no point discussing this. You asked to have a raffle for the land, and we won the raffle..

  10. #10
    This is interesting.

    Got to love the jealousy in this game, makes it so entertaining.

    We hate Redemption!

    We hate Storm!

    We hate Apoc!

    LOL!

    Get over it. All of those guilds have fine people in them and I have no problems with any of them, I was illustrating the hate.

    KS'ing? Come on. So if I log on everyday and show up somewhere to hunt and another group is there, but my team does more damage, am I now a KSer? LOL!

    FC needs to open up more Tower slots. Redemption's main base is full, just because its a high ql base doesn't mean we got more slots in it than you.

    /me grabs a bowl of popcorn and watches the carebears cry

    ROFL, this is so funny. FC should issue hunting licenses to hunt on RK with all you whiners.

    OH NO! I killed one too many Primus mobs!
    **You have been fined 1,000,000 credits**

    - Cyrus Cyblade7 Crown
    - General of Redemption

  11. #11
    This is funny...

    I'm an outsider looking in, and if Redemption is represented by the posts of Coldstrike and Cyblade7, I wouldn't want anything to do with them either.

    And my main is a lowbie level 81, but I happen to be in a very large Org on the Clan side.

    It's a shame that an org like Redemption can't own up to a mistake, and do the right thing.

    My father said to me at a very young age...

    It takes a bigger man to admit he's wrong, than to pretend he is right.

  12. #12
    Gamavir...

    To bad it's funny for you, but it just show us what peson you are and therefor your judgement about this matter have no relevanse for us.

    BlackoutGrey...
    Fact is Redemtion organiced an attack on the base, Redemtion had no clue RKM wanted the base, Red was half way in destroing the base before RKM showed up with their force/friends.
    Fact is: sup lvl 150 toons dont have acces to nwchat, if if someone from Red had seen the RKM "announsement" claiming the base on nwchat we would have told you that we also had a plan and a force rdy to take the base.
    Fact is: it's a low lvl base, and most of the fights for the bases in that qlty range does not involve nwchat at all! Why should it been any difrence this time? Red was rdy to go on their low lvl toons long before you claim to have announced the attack on nwchat.
    Fact is: Red even won a raffle for the spot.

    Just because you claim to have announsed the attack on nwchat does not give you an exclusive right to the base as long as the base is of low lvl and sup 150 lvl players dont have acces to nwchat. By your definision only raids that are announced on nwchat are "leagal".... that will put you above most low lvl guild with no access to nwchat out in the cold every time some high lvl guildt want a low lvl base.
    Red is helping attacking Omni bases and defending clan bases all over RK, we do it because we are clan and to make clan stronger. We have given up bases we planned to take to other orgs because they also had plans to take it and needed it more then us. We are not as big and evil as you claim us to be, but we dont bend over... every time it fits you either...

  13. #13
    Wasnt there myself but this sounds like one long waaah waah

    You guys need Smooth back

  14. #14
    Originally posted by Cyblade7
    This is interesting.

    Got to love the jealousy in this game, makes it so entertaining.

    We hate Redemption!

    We hate Storm!

    We hate Apoc!

    LOL!

    Of course we hate those guilds, they are clanners

    Oh u meant other clan guilds hate u? my bad
    Jamesdum President of Ragnarok
    Jamespond Member of Ragnarok
    Jamespond2 Member of Ragnarok

    Want to join Ragnarok?

    Quote on BrutalThug
    Because we have spy's in EVERYONE's guild so we can plan the attack while you sleep !! yeah ! hmm we clearly need to rename the guild to "nordic echelon"

  15. #15

    What world are you living in?

    I was there the night before when clan lost the base to OPEC. Gunsam and his alt fixer was first on the scene attacking this base. I killed him, but they came back and eventually took the base. No clan was there, no RK Mafia was there. So I started planning a recapture of the land at that point.

    Day Two: The base goes 25%, we disable the shields with our alts, who arent high enough to use NWchat, we had by far more then any other guild. WE DIDNT ASK FOR HELP. WE WON THE RAFFLE. So either way you look at it, this land wasnt ninja'd or ks'd or however the wording goes nowadays.

    And as far as RK Mafia claiming they cant believe we did this, they helped us so much? The only reason they kept their base as long as they did was the number of people we sent to defend them on certain occasions. You need better excuses then what youve presented on this board to make my heart melt guys. These arent even good ones.
    Last edited by TORTUREYOU; Jan 7th, 2003 at 22:09:28.

  16. #16

    Talking A bonus by any other name is a bonus

    When it's all said and done, a side bonus is a side bonus regardless of how it's obtained.

    The whole pvp system is set up to favor the big orgs. Simple as that. So be it. Hell, let all the big orgs take all the land spots. What is it, 5 per org? Great. We get our exp bonus, pvp is pointless for the lower levels and life goes on.

    It gets tiring trying to defend a base when you have at most 10 ppl online at your peak time anyway.

    Someone explain why it's so great to own a base of towers again? Other than saying you do? Other than having to sink credits into it daily to rebuild lost towers. No thanks, I'll take the exp bonus and let you do all the work. Thanks now, ya hear?

  17. #17
    Fryli quote:

    "Gamavir...

    To bad it's funny for you, but it just show us what peson you are and therefor your judgement about this matter have no relevanse for us."

    Can't you see that it's this type of post that makes me think the way I do about some of your org?

    I could care less about the relevance of the whole situation, it's the follow up posts by members of Redemption that have made my "judgement" of this whole mess the way it is.

    The follow up posts are arrogant at best. I'm sure the leaders could have come up with something better, than a flame fest, he said she said fight on a forum.

    And Yes, I am well aware that you guys in Redemption didn't start this thread, but to see what I did from the members that DID post, I can draw my own conclusion.

    Leadership is much more than a title. The decisions leaders make reflect on the whole Org. Obviously something went wrong somewhere...

  18. #18
    Gamavir...

    You gave the impression that this was funny... and it's not...

    You automaticaly assume that the one who made this tread is right... i really hope Tort made it clear for you how this happened and how it was planned.

    What did you have a problem with in Cold and Cy's post? the fact that they did not bend over to a post full of stuff that is one sided and not bases upon all the facts in this matter?

    The fact that you think the tread was funny among whit automaticaly assume that Red was wrong in their doing and did a mistake, when infact from out point of wiev we did perfectly fine. And in no aspect of this happening we stole any base, the original poster even neglected and did not the truth that the base was won for Red by a raffle.

  19. #19
    When I said this is funny, I didn't mean as in laughing funny. Sorry if you took it that way.

    What I meant was that an accusation was made, and the replies to that accusation were laughable.

    They were hostile replies, which to me, made it look like Redemption was/is wrong.

    Now, there's been alot of talk about a "raffle". Who was this raffle between? When was this "raffle" held?

    Even if there was a real raffle, and it was between more than Redemption and Redemption (no, that's not a typo) can you honestly (or anyone in Redemption honestly) say that they didn't know there was a raid planned on that location PRIOR to them getting the idea to raid it knowing they would have plenty of help? Whether they needed the help or not is not important. IF, they knew the help would be there is the question.

    And for Cold to say that the others weren't there for 50 minutes, when it's been refutted that they were there 1 minute after Red. attacked, and the remaining forces only 5 minutes away, you have to try to look at it from an outsiders viewpoint.

    It doesn't look good for Redemption from an outsiders view.

    That doesn't mean that Redemption didn't legitimately have a raffle, or didn't legitimately place the tower rightfully. But to come across hostile, rather than state the real facts, with backup from who/what ever guild(s) that this raffle was help with, would have been a much better approach for the members of Redemption that posted here. Wouldn't it?

  20. #20
    Originally posted by Gamavir
    Leadership is much more than a title. The decisions leaders make reflect on the whole Org. Obviously something went wrong somewhere...
    Nothing went wrong here. Every member in Red stands behind our leader.

    In case you haven't figured our Red yet, we are friends, RL and brought to the game, alot of us hang out on weekends together and go out to drink. If you think we are bending to your carebear ways....forget it.

    Don't like Red? Fine with me. I'm not out for popularity. But when it comes to defending clan, Red will be there helping every clanner defend there base.
    - Cyrus Cyblade7 Crown
    - General of Redemption

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