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Thread: Clannet System (Tweek Meating) Saturday

  1. #1

    Post Clannet System (Tweek Meating) Saturday

    Hiya all

    Meeting place : Rubi Ka 2
    Time : 20:00 GMT, 11/1 - 2003
    Location : Borialis (Outside Smugglers Den, Backdoor)

    Everyone meeting the following criterias will be able to attend meeting.

    Level : 140+
    Side : Clan

    Something to think on to meeting time. (things might be added here)

    1. A sugestion to build in the system : Limit hording items from roll system.

    Example : If you win a item lets say for the issue at hand that it is a Dragon Chest you have to pass 30 points before you can win that item again if you win it again you have to pass 60 next time .. basecly per item and char it inc. with 30 points per time... (Idea giver : Xscape.)

    2. Sugestions on new hosts for system!!!

    3. Lobby FC to give us a vicinity loot message function instead of team only.

    4. What do we do with the Omni-Tek Missing problem!!

    PS) IF YOU HAVE IDEAS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME PRE FEEDBACK ON TELL ME INGAME AND ILL ADD THEM
    Last edited by Marlark; Jan 8th, 2003 at 09:00:08.

  2. #2
    Suggestion.

    Moving the level requirements from 140 to 150 within a certain date. Say 3 months from now. This would give all the people who have lives to get a character up to 150 with enough notification on a rule change.

    Say March 31 2003 is the last date of the 140-149 levels.


    This should be plenty of notification so the whiners at level 10 can get over it now..
    Elbo - LVL 220 Top of the line: Supreme Creator Engineer

    Making 5 Gem Saba Bracers! Give tell in game!
    Crat - LVL 209! Doc - LVL 170,MA - LVL 106,Fixer - LVL 103,Keeper - LVL 140,, MP - LVL 109, Shade - LVL 165
    QFT: 1800+. EE: 2400+. ME: 2400+. Chem: 1800+ WS: 1900+. Psychology: 1800 Pharm: 1800

    Making QL300 AI Armor and Weapons!


  3. #3
    I wont be able to attend the meeting, but the following has been mentioned multiple times and i do believe should be considered:

    I would like to present an idea that I think will help Clannet become a strong stable system and hopefully bring the clans closer.

    The main problem that this suggestion tries to fix is accountability. Right now, individuals that go to Clannet raids do not really feel like they have any ownership or right to change the system. This is likely to lead to dissention and the only repercussion for individuals that go against Clannet atm is social pressure, which is not that big of a deal for individuals.

    The proposal would make each individual that attended accountable by their guild and each guild would have a voice in what happens with Clannet. The guilds as a whole would be accountable to a council of members from other guilds. Thus, repercussions mean something to the individuals in question and the pressure is not coming from some unknown group of Clannet people, but from people in their own guilds.

    So the proposal is as follows:

    1. A council will be created from one member that is appointed from each active guild at Tara.

    2. An active guild is determined by the sum of all the raid points collected by members of that guild. For example, once a guild reaches 50 points, then they are able to appoint a member to the council.

    3. All members of the council will have admin rights on Clannet. Only one will be assigned per raid and the council will decide how this is assigned.

    4. Council members will be responsible for:
    a. Resolving problems with individuals in their respective guilds
    b. Determining the rules for Clannet
    c. Making split second decisions at raids when a problem comes up
    d. When issues cannot be addressed by individual council members and their guild members, then having meetings to decide what repercussions there would be for individuals that break the rules.

    5. Individuals that are not guilded will be overseen by the council itself.

    6. Banning exists on 2 levels, banning an individual and banning a guild. Both of these options should be treated with the utmost respect and used only as a last resort. The council is accountable to the RK2 clan community. If these options are abused in any respect, then it threatens the stability of the Clannet system.

    7. Leadership of the council itself is an issue and I would recommend that no specific individual be put in that position and instead have all council members have equal ground.

    This is of course open to suggestion, but I think that something along these lines is absolutely required in order for Clannet to retain stability.

  4. #4
    Good good Idea time to resolve some issues that people have I'll be there to hear everyone's gripes anyways see you all saturday
    Layartic - I have no fear of falling but I hate hitting the ground!!
    Sunebam - What you want me to heal too!!??
    Shatterstarr - Just kinda relaxing to let your pets work!

    And a few other toons of no notable mention yet

  5. #5
    my opinion to Thelcia's offer is that becoming a host should n't be a right every guild can get... i think it is better to elect a few individuals to clan net hosts... and if every guild involved in tara raids get a host there would be too many of them...
    Creating a council could solve some problems... but i think it is hard to establish... with one member in council per org i, strong guild wouldn't be represented enough (not my problem (: ), besides that these discussions are more useful when done in clannet besides tara raids... where all ppl could get involved.

    the hording items limit is useful i think, but should be lowered for items u can wear 2 times (sleeves,GoC,GoS) because everyone needs 2 of them (:

    the 150+ limit ...
    Sometimes we are too much ppl in here (more then 60) but i think limiting clannet more and more is unfair.
    Y? just becasue all ppl that do not have high lvl alt's would be able to get tara stuff at the time they are able to wear it... so the alt's of high lvl ppl would be uber... that shouldn't be the aim of clannet...
    maybe a limit to 60 ppl in clannet could be more useful...
    Nachtkatze Rimor
    Wildkatze DnW

  6. #6
    The essential problem with admin hosts as it is is that some or all will never be trusted by everyone. This isn't a big deal when you know at least 1 person that you do trust. Hoever, as it stands now -- there is no guaruntee of that.

    Also, no matter who you trust now, online relationships are fickle and people change their minds rather rapidly. The people you like/accept today are not the ones you will like tomorrow.

    There is currently NO council for making decisions on Clannet -- hence the meeting that needs to be posted on the boards. So saying that this would be too many people makes no sense -- it is already the entire community.

    Additionally, this could also be structured not as anyone that reaches a certain level, but the 10-15 guilds with the top number of visits to Clannet.

    But when it comes down to it -- if Clannet does not represent the community -- it will not survive.

  7. #7
    Originally posted by Erzb. Bockwurst

    the 150+ limit ...
    Sometimes we are too much ppl in here (more then 60) but i think limiting clannet more and more is unfair.
    Y? just becasue all ppl that do not have high lvl alt's would be able to get tara stuff at the time they are able to wear it... so the alt's of high lvl ppl would be uber... that shouldn't be the aim of clannet...
    maybe a limit to 60 ppl in clannet could be more useful...
    The GS already has a limit of 60. I'm not sure where you heard it had more at... The reason I suggested a 3 month time before any change like that would go into effect is to give the casual gamer time to level his main to the minimum as they have on RK1
    Elbo - LVL 220 Top of the line: Supreme Creator Engineer

    Making 5 Gem Saba Bracers! Give tell in game!
    Crat - LVL 209! Doc - LVL 170,MA - LVL 106,Fixer - LVL 103,Keeper - LVL 140,, MP - LVL 109, Shade - LVL 165
    QFT: 1800+. EE: 2400+. ME: 2400+. Chem: 1800+ WS: 1900+. Psychology: 1800 Pharm: 1800

    Making QL300 AI Armor and Weapons!


  8. #8
    btw the reason for suggesting to raise the lvl limit is because the open PVP bar was moved to 150 thank you drive through plz
    Layartic - I have no fear of falling but I hate hitting the ground!!
    Sunebam - What you want me to heal too!!??
    Shatterstarr - Just kinda relaxing to let your pets work!

    And a few other toons of no notable mention yet

  9. #9
    Hmm 150 well i wonder if that will go thrue .. but if we look on the sugestion made from xscape regarding hording rules for the items.. like inc. the point limit for beeing able to take part of a roll.

    The thing here is maybe that could actualy be the way to go based that it might work as a natural over handing it to the players that is comming under .. lets say we the players that have gone to tara sins i dont know when hehe .. have maybe soon done our part on the raids we have soon won rolls with everything and based on that winning rolls will be harder and harder for the old timers .. witch makes a natural way of retirement in due time for a char at tara.

    It could actualy mean in the long run if implemented that we can even lower the lvl req in clannet further on due to that we get a lower % of very high lvl people. That basecly have done their part down there. Question here is maybe how do we balance it. Do we balance it at all or just pump in more and more people.

    Problem we also have to think about is what do we do to make the place more interesting regarding OT is there things FC can do is there things we can do as players or orgs. To get some sort of balance or something.

    As we all know Clan own the Castle on RK2 have done so for a long time and based on our numbers and the way we organize our self we have i think the upper hand but Omni could actualy take tara from us based on the numbers they have today among high lvl people.. but then they have to organize themself in a better way then today.

    If i where OT i would have formed the way for OT to take over the place once and a while. Remember it is a honor of winning the end prize of taking down tara. But for clan for some time it have almost been a right then a honor.

    Well it is something to think about atleast.

    // Marlark
    Last edited by Marlark; Jan 8th, 2003 at 17:42:29.

  10. #10
    i think we need a new system. the current system is fine but is exploitable. some people may join clannet and log in their alts and join clannet again and farm raid points. so what i'm suggesting here is that for every tara raid everyone gets 1 raid point. the point gained on that raid cannot be saved up for another raid. so if a gph and a tara chest drops you must decide whether to roll for the gph or tara chest. just my thoughts
    MrFields
    Last edited by Minhxike; Jan 8th, 2003 at 22:24:47.

  11. #11

    UBA

    Make sure you hold the meeting time during Tara 1 spawn =)

  12. #12
    I'm not sure if I will be able to attend on Saturday or not so here are my thoughts.

    The Limit hording of items idea, while presented with the best of intentions, could mean the death of clannet. There are already some players that would prefer to have damage teams over the rather even loot distribution clannet provides. The players that prefer damage teams are generally around 200 and already have quite a bit of dragon loot. If we tell this group of players that they can no longer have dragon loot or cripple their odds they will jump ship for sure and every Tara will be Clannet vs damage teams. Omni may even see that the clans are divided and come and take her from us while we are fighting amongst ourselves. Also let's say someone has a Level 200 and a Level 140 alt. Who would benefit us more at Tara, the 200 of course. Why would we force this person to play their 140 who will do much less damage to Tara and not be nearly as usefull in defending against Omni opposition. This contradicts the main goal of clannet, to keep Omni from getting the kill. There are also way too many what ifs for this to be feasible. What if someone bought their dragon loot? What if they got their dragon loot pre-clannet? The bottom line is if it isn't broke don't fix it. We have a good thing going here, let's not ruin it.

    Now that we have that out of the way here's a little suggestion I have. Why don't we expand clannet beyond Tarasque? I think we could have the same success we have had with Tara if we use the system for all the Uber mobs (Ian Warr, Ljotur, Patricia Johnson, Peter Lee etc.) The points should be kept separate from Tara points, but all the outside uber mob points would be combined. That way we would get better participation at all of the raids instead of people only going after the particular mob that drops the item they want.
    Thromp Uber Soldat (hehe ok uber for 80 seconds )
    Threefitty UberSquishy NanoTech

  13. #13
    Originally posted by Minhxike
    i think we need a new system. the current system is fine but is exploitable. some people may join clannet and log in their alts and join clannet again and farm raid points. so what i'm suggesting here is that for every tara raid everyone gets 1 raid point. the point gained on that raid cannot be saved up for another raid. so if a gph and a tara chest drops you must decide whether to roll for the gph or tara chest. just my thoughts
    MrFields
    rofl - that's how it used to be, and it sucked.

    ~Chris

  14. #14

    Question

    Just a thought...likely silly one. Possibly make a clan and omni roll to fill set teams for a raid of each spawn. I don't know specific number of people allowed at Camelot for CC but if 60 get 30 clan and 30 omni to compete for Tara. Probably to complicated to arrange as would only add a new thing to fight over who gets to go. Possibly if space is limited allow each char entry every certain number of raids so it doesn't end up being a case where a few players monopolize. Probably would need to set level limits of 150 for this so both sides have players able to compete with opposition. This maybe would increase Omni interest in competing for Tara as well as hopefully increase Clan enjoyment in the raid. Personally I found it horribly dull when Omni controlled Tara for a brief time when few clan showed up and mainly we stood around for ages in lag keeping buffs up in case of clan threat and waiting for spawn. Killing the dragon is not that challenging after all for either side if not opposed. If FC is going to continue making this a pvp required mob then maybe we can work it out so that it is at least more fun for all in game. I think that counting on FC to balance the issue with CC is likely to be a fiasco and bugged as both sides experience with tower battles.

    I realize that controlling Tara is preferable to many on either side and they would be happy to do so without opposition. For me I want to improve game play. I want some fun please. Sure I want a chance at loot and if I were on winning side I would have better chance at getting it (GPH being one of few items I even care about, ooh well notum tank and azure armor... gimme that please ) and sure if for some reason Omni held control of a Tara spawn I would likely show up. I won't bother however making Tara a priority to me in current situation. Really any attempt to get enough numbers to compete with clan is way too much effort compared to entertainment potential. Loot is totally secondary to fun game play for me. I actually see towers as potential fun because they offer benefits that you have to protect in whatever way you can. I personally find that more interesting regardless of whether it is negotiated or fought for than showing up at a mob hitting Q and pressing heal hotkeys. Lately all I seem to do in game is say goodbye to people quitting the server or the game...those of us still here have experienced this. Omni morale is low and I know I am apathetic. Just sucks when activities often provide low reward either in loot, XP, and especially excitement.


    FC does not keep this game interesting, honestly players need to take a more active role to make it so. I want conflict against an enemy, otherwise what is the point. Maybe outside of battle clan and omni can work together to improve our fun time here on Rimor, even outside Tara, setting up tournaments maybe, planning huge forces to tackle Ian Warr or some other quests we may not have figured out, or arrange for set battles between forces. I have to admit to being horrible at organizing large groups of people to do stuff, mainly I just have silly ideas and ramble on endlessly to those who can. Happy to dedicate time in helping out in any way I can for such endeavors that will be fun. Just some thoughts I had, I am sure there are people more imaginative than I who could think of some ways to screw funcom out of boring us to death...Right now I think FC is winning

  15. #15

    Red face Thoughts for the brain

    I dont know hoa many times i have said this bef. but just to make it clear.

    As we all know or most of us know is the reason for why clannet came to place at all. We needed something that could make the Tara raids do 2 things. 1. calm down all the *****ing and almost internal war we had on clan side. 2. Make a roll system that was based on sharing and equal chance.

    What you have to know is that clannet is a unwanted system. Reason for that is that The system was made because of the way Tarasque dongeon is designed and the game in general. If we could shutdown clannet and let FC handle the tools for us that would have been great. But as we know it as of yet and sorry FC to have to say this .. but is looks to me that you are missing something when you design places or uniques like this and that is how do we make this place a interesting place to goto.

    When it come to Tarasque when it come down to it is Gameplay as isoday said. I bel that is what we all want fun gameplay.

    So how do we get that. Sorry again FC but i have to pick a litle on you guys again and that is that we as players seem to know alot better what it is we want out of this and how to get it.. problem is maybe that we have milion ideas on how to bring it forward. Latly when something is done they are made out of need for the professions. Dont forget that we have alot of problems with basic things in the existing dongeons or at existing uniques. When it come to some uniques we need some basic things just so that we can close things that we as players have made just to survive in the game.

    For Tara as we have seen it colored here is that we need the loot anouncement to be vicinity not team.

    Reason for this we all know.

    Secondly we need some sort of crowd controll limiter in the Dongeon. Something like Iso said. In the long run we dont need tarabot clannet or helpbot and the org bots and all this.

    If we had the basic functions as we have made ourself.

    There is one thing here and that is maybe make a ingame support team maybe based on Thelcias idea that could act as gameplay panel. Basecly help you FC to collect ideas and such things on how to fix our basic needs ingame.. and prioritice them in a way that makes it simpler for you to maybe inplement them and so on.

    I talk with alot of people both on clan and omni and neutral side that have great ideas on how small things can fix big problems only problem is they never make it on to the webboard based on one reason and one reason alone they have lost the will due to they think it never get the attention it deserve.

    My self as a old AO player have not given up but i have to tell you that at some time further on the road if we cant boost gameplay i am gonna have serius problems maintaining the interest i have for this game. I c alot of potentials here. But im a realist i c alot of problems that need to be adressed.

    So down to basics. if we could shut down clannet due to that we got some basic functions that we as players are missing then 90% of all the bots out there would disapere. Because we dont need them anymore.

    In the end it shouldnt be needed for us to have to go this far that we have to create things just to make things work.

    Clannet is a one side bot but it exist out of unwanted need.

    My own feeling about things like isodai's idea here it is actualy not new .. is that such a thing should not have to be inplemented by us in a bot just to make it interesting or solv problems ... problem here if we would inplement it in clannet the system would not hold water anymore. Remember that everyone that goto the raids or even not go to the raids are greedy bastards in nature. xxfearxx usualy use that line hehe and i totaly agree with him on it. There is noone in this game that can say they are not greedy bastards. Because we all are!!

    Reason for why Tara is such a interesting place for us all is that it have a emryo of fun in it ... but not enouph.

    So to make it alot of fun what do we do?

    // Marlark

  16. #16
    Originally posted by Minhxike
    i think we need a new system. the current system is fine but is exploitable. some people may join clannet and log in their alts and join clannet again and farm raid points. so what i'm suggesting here is that for every tara raid everyone gets 1 raid point. the point gained on that raid cannot be saved up for another raid. so if a gph and a tara chest drops you must decide whether to roll for the gph or tara chest. just my thoughts
    MrFields
    you should rather point out who is logging alts and mains in to clannet instead of making. o i got 1 point i can't save. i better roll on something.

  17. #17
    A good idea to calm down many clanner may be to use clannet for the raid but helpbot for the roll cause helpbot have a verify fonction.
    So we will still have some speaking of loot swap before showing it in the chat group, but no more speaking of cheats in the roll

  18. #18

    Re: Thoughts for the brain

    Originally posted by MarLark


    Secondly we need some sort of crowd controll limiter in the Dongeon. Something like Iso said. In the long run we dont need tarabot clannet or helpbot and the org bots and all this.

    // Marlark
    I can't see why your complaining to funcom to make this a crowd control area. You can't force people into a crowded lagged zone like that and expect them to call it fun when they can't move or heal or shoot for minutes in a crowded box area with upwards of 30-40 peeps shooting it out.

    Stop asking for the nerf stick. I don't like PVP. Why do you want to force others to participate in it? I like the way it is right now since clan on RK2 are the major organized force thats just the way it is.

    If the omni wanted to show up and take a GS they just need to run in 60 peeps in and presto. People who PVP on the servers are NOT the majority.
    Elbo - LVL 220 Top of the line: Supreme Creator Engineer

    Making 5 Gem Saba Bracers! Give tell in game!
    Crat - LVL 209! Doc - LVL 170,MA - LVL 106,Fixer - LVL 103,Keeper - LVL 140,, MP - LVL 109, Shade - LVL 165
    QFT: 1800+. EE: 2400+. ME: 2400+. Chem: 1800+ WS: 1900+. Psychology: 1800 Pharm: 1800

    Making QL300 AI Armor and Weapons!


  19. #19
    Now that we have that out of the way here's a little suggestion I have. Why don't we expand clannet beyond Tarasque? I think we could have the same success we have had with Tara if we use the system for all the Uber mobs (Ian Warr, Ljotur, Patricia Johnson, Peter Lee etc.) The points should be kept separate from Tara points, but all the outside uber mob points would be combined. That way we would get better participation at all of the raids instead of people only going after the particular mob that drops the item they want.)))))))


    No thanx, 1 clannet owning an NPC is more then enough.

    Stop wanting funcom to fix the Tarasque problem, its not broken.
    You take a team you go in and kill it, you loot it, its not that complicated.

  20. #20
    This would be a good idea :-) I would like to see peter lee taken down since I know...from the last visit with ian warr... and the 50 peeps who croaked at that time... :-) It isnt fun to pull him.
    Elbo - LVL 220 Top of the line: Supreme Creator Engineer

    Making 5 Gem Saba Bracers! Give tell in game!
    Crat - LVL 209! Doc - LVL 170,MA - LVL 106,Fixer - LVL 103,Keeper - LVL 140,, MP - LVL 109, Shade - LVL 165
    QFT: 1800+. EE: 2400+. ME: 2400+. Chem: 1800+ WS: 1900+. Psychology: 1800 Pharm: 1800

    Making QL300 AI Armor and Weapons!


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