Remove the mechanics for complete IPR and burn the disks the code is on!

[___________Firedrake]

Sorry, but given FC's track record for being able to screw up the game and over it's players, I could never say with any faith that a full IPR won't be needed in the future. I do like the ideas many here have come up with for getting more IPR points though.

[Flapsie]

Originally posted by Sepaku
Just make 1 IP reset point = to xp needed to lvl. Basically you could switch your xp over to IPR and earn a point, but not regular xp. That way you could choose to work on fixing a broke char or for 200s gives you a reason to xp.

Cheers
Sepaku
131 Atrox Fixer

That would be possible to exploit by switching over to IPR at a low lvl, and making ALOT of IPR's when each lvl only takes a few kills...
And making IPR'ing at lvl 200 a VERY time-consuming point...

[speardancer2]

Originally posted by Flapsie


That would be possible to exploit by switching over to IPR at a low lvl, and making ALOT of IPR's when each lvl only takes a few kills...
And making IPR'ing at lvl 200 a VERY time-consuming point...

Make it unavaliable until T/L 3 then, because I know I'd hate to see how long someone could sit in a backyard, doing lvl 1 missions to earn IPR's.

And you know people would do it too.

[_____________Makarov]

Originally posted by Flapsie


That would be possible to exploit by switching over to IPR at a low lvl, and making ALOT of IPR's when each lvl only takes a few kills...
And making IPR'ing at lvl 200 a VERY time-consuming point...

It is easy to fix that possible exploit.
After you get needed xp to lv one screen apears and ask if you want to gain a LV or to Reset one skill. And if you pick IPR then you wont gain any xp until you reset one skill.

[ethernal3]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


I had a great riposte for this, but it was too insulting to all engineers to use.

I will say given your attitude and self-proclaimed purpose on these forums, I'd expect you to be for anything that causes a conflict. Therefore what you're all for can be discounted pretty easily.

Send it via a private message if you want.

~Chris

[Inconvenience]

Kuroshio you have just created another argument for "I've been playing a long time so I deserve to have more fun than you."

And as far as someone deserving to be uber in pvp because they picked particular skills...

Well your saying that someone deserves to be uber in pvp because they picked a cookie cutter class and weapon combination and stuck with it?

Your saying that someone who choses a weapon style that they actually liked or thought looked cool or went with their idea of what their character is about should be penalized at higher levels when they find out they are gimps? (uber run on sentance)

THIS GAME'S PVP IS ALL ABOUT COOKIE CUTTER- ROCK PAPER SCISSORS CRAP! Your saying that not everyone should have a chance to pick up an uber weapon combo because they didn't min-max their entire characters life?

Your saying that someone who put hours and hours into a character and decided that they don't like them shouldn't be allowed to turn them into something usefull to themselves or their guild?

Your saying that only those who read some strategy guide or spent days on the forums carefully calculating every move of their character should be happy?

Your saying that part of character development is staying the same your entire life?

This is a GAME. Your supposed to have FUN.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by smotheredhope
Kuroshio you have just created another argument for "I've been playing a long time so I deserve to have more fun than you."

And as far as someone deserving to be uber in pvp because they picked particular skills...

Well your saying that someone deserves to be uber in pvp because they picked a cookie cutter class and weapon combination and stuck with it?

Your saying that someone who choses a weapon style that they actually liked or thought looked cool or went with their idea of what their character is about should be penalized at higher levels when they find out they are gimps? (uber run on sentance)

THIS GAME'S PVP IS ALL ABOUT COOKIE CUTTER- ROCK PAPER SCISSORS CRAP! Your saying that not everyone should have a chance to pick up an uber weapon combo because they didn't min-max their entire characters life?

Your saying that someone who put hours and hours into a character and decided that they don't like them shouldn't be allowed to turn them into something usefull to themselves or their guild?

Your saying that only those who read some strategy guide or spent days on the forums carefully calculating every move of their character should be happy?

Your saying that part of character development is staying the same your entire life?

This is a GAME. Your supposed to have FUN.

What I'm saying is that nobody deserves to have what they invested their time into mocked by instant copies of themselves.

I'm saying that if you invested in SMGs when all there was were Mausser Particle Streamers to find suddenly there are Manex Catastrophes, you don't deserve to go to bed with a look and wake up to find it all over Rubi-Ka the next day.

I'm saying that if you went as a nanoskill fixer from the start, breaking your neck the whole time gimped in other areas to find GA at the end of the tunnel you don't deserve to have someone that took the gun route the entire time flip a switch and be wearing GA seconds later.

I'm saying that if you built up your character making nanocrystals the term of its career, again sacrificing in other areas, you don't deserve to have someone that went with AR their entire career suddenly being able to compete with you when a nice tradeskill gets introduced...Again at the flip of a switch.

I'm saying that if you concentrated your character's career on being whatever you CHOSE you have to live with that decision AND also deserve whatever rewards are due to you because of YOUR CHOICE without someone instantly being able to duplicate your efforts. Be it a tradeskill person suddenly becoming a PvP god. A PvP god suddenly becoming an uber doctor. A beam enforcer suddenly switching into the top levels of the 1he weapons. Or whatever.

This is about fun. Fun in these types of games also involve:

1. Being the first
2. Being the best
3. Being different from the rest

I made my choices when making my Trader. You will never come to him to make Virral Triumvirate Eggs. He's not that good. You will never see me as the last man standing in every PvP fight. He's not that good there either. I chose to make a balanced character, able to do a little of everything. I made that choice, happy that I had it, and enjoy that choice quite well when I play.

Are you saying you can't live with the choices you make?


P.S.
What's worse: A small number cookie cutter PvP profession/weapon characters? Or a whole slew of them thanks to IPR? I'll take the smaller group any day.So long as that group is smaller, they can be taken in group PvP (I wrote off the arenas long before they were even implemented). But if everyone starts switching to that, thanks to too much IPR being in the game, then everyone will have to go that route even to compete in group PvP. I like my individuality, thank you very much. If you want to join the Borg, wait for Star Trek Online. Don't bring it here.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Megabio



Send it via a private message if you want.

~Chris

Where's a good beam of sunlight or a lit torch and a flask of oil when you need one?

[Inconvenience]

Another case of "How is arguing on the internet like running in the special olimpics."

You can be right in your world. I'll be right in the rest of it.

You make no sense whatsoever but that's fine. I give up. You win. I'll go talk to the wall now.


Edit: Editing my post because I don't want to bump your thread.

All your arguments are circular. Your like an ANTI FUN Priest. "My position is correct because obviously my position is correct..."

And as far as admiring UO's system I played it a long time ago and mentioned what parts I liked. Your the type that dissects a persons post and attacks parts of it out of context.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by smotheredhope
Another case of "How is arguing on the internet like running in the special olimpics."

You can be right in your world. I'll be right in the rest of it.

You make no sense whatsoever but that's fine. I give up. You win. I'll go talk to the wall now.

Okay, if you're right then respond to just what I put in the P.S. if you can.

Also, someone said this earlier in the thread:

UO actually had the best system I've seen in an mmorpg. The more you did something the better you got at it. (even if it was with a mouse macro program)

Part of UO's system was that skills also atrophied over time if not used. If you reached the cap on the skills you could have, you could learn another skill by not using one of your current skills and using the other. That took time and wasn't instant, like reset points.

UO also had a huge outcry from their playerbase when incentives like Power Hours suddenly allowed people to master skills in a very short time compared to the amount of time they had spent with that skill.

I wonder what the person that admired UO's skill system would say to that?

[secondkenlon]

Personally, I see no need for a full IPR at this point, but I do see a time in the (hopefully) not so distant future when we will need one.

Shadowlands.

[lilnymph]

I agree, unless something like skills changing colour happens again, there is no reason for a full IPR. Everyone has to make a choice in this game about IP, and it seems That unless you make the choice to go the way of the uber cookie cutter, some people dont wan't to team with you, and you will lose out in PvP. This is fien I say, but you should have to live with that when something new comes out that you are not set up to use/handle, while someone who has set up a balanced character from the start should be able to react better, because they are, well, balanced. It is the difference between generalisation and specialisation. However there should be some way of changing the way your character is set up, though I would prefer it to be reasonably slowly to try and make people plan ahead, rather than just go with what is uber.

hugs

lilnymph

[Champagne]

Originally posted by Flapsie
How about the ability to spend XP for IPR's...
That you perhaps could set a percentage of XP to go into a IPR pool and when that pool got up one "lvl" (pool full of XP) you get one IPR...

This is the best suggestion so far imo! 10 ipr to Flapsie!

[__________Curmudgeon]

While I sort of agree with Kuroshio, I'm gonna play devil's advocate.

Game mechanics drift in AO. Gear changes. Heck, even a person's mood changes over the course of months/years.

Let's face it, everyone's first character is a mess, due to inexperience. Sometimes you can end up a mess for most of your career. A lot of people take the painful route of deleting and starting over.

This game is about having fun, and a change of pace is fun. Completely rearranging your character every once in awhile would be a lot of fun. It would breathe new life into an old character and let you try a different style without resorting to starting an alt/twink.

If people could do a complete reset every once in awhile... they would. Why? Cause it would be useful and/or fun. Isn't that a good thing in a game?

All of your arguments against complete resets involve how other people's resets will hurt you. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.

You point out that people would be able to reset and become instant tradeskillers. This is true. But tradeskillers could also reset and give tradeskilling a break if they wanted to! This would be a huge bonus to existing tradeskillers and non-tradeskillers. Sure competition would go up, but I don't think it would rise as much as you think. If someone has the patience to deal with tradeskills, they are a tradeskiller already. If someone doesn't have the patience or inclination for tradeskills, they likely won't bother, even if they have a reset available.

You say there would be a mass of cookie cutter characters all using the "Weapon of the Week". So what? If you like your weapon use it. Why should you care what others are using? How does it really affect you? If you want to be different, you can reset and change to some other weapon, so that you aren't part of that cookie cutter crowd.

Now like I said, I sort of agree with you. And don't really want a lot of complete resets. Spending IP efficiently is part of the challenge of the game for me. But I can see an opposite viewpoint, that would say that anything which makes the game more fun and interesting (like being able to completely rearrange your character's playstyle) is a good thing for players and a good thing for FunCom.

If FunCom announced that you could do a complete reset once a month, I think a lot of people would cheer vigorously. Maybe even me.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
While I sort of agree with Kuroshio, I'm gonna play devil's advocate.

Game mechanics drift in AO. Gear changes. Heck, even a person's mood changes over the course of months/years.

Let's face it, everyone's first character is a mess, due to inexperience. Sometimes you can end up a mess for most of your career. A lot of people take the painful route of deleting and starting over.

This game is about having fun, and a change of pace is fun. Completely rearranging your character every once in awhile would be a lot of fun. It would breathe new life into an old character and let you try a different style without resorting to starting an alt/twink.

If people could do a complete reset every once in awhile... they would. Why? Cause it would be useful and/or fun. Isn't that a good thing in a game?

All of your arguments against complete resets involve how other people's resets will hurt you. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.

You point out that people would be able to reset and become instant tradeskillers. This is true. But tradeskillers could also reset and give tradeskilling a break if they wanted to! This would be a huge bonus to existing tradeskillers and non-tradeskillers. Sure competition would go up, but I don't think it would rise as much as you think. If someone has the patience to deal with tradeskills, they are a tradeskiller already. If someone doesn't have the patience or inclination for tradeskills, they likely won't bother, even if they have a reset available.

You say there would be a mass of cookie cutter characters all using the "Weapon of the Week". So what? If you like your weapon use it. Why should you care what others are using? How does it really affect you? If you want to be different, you can reset and change to some other weapon, so that you aren't part of that cookie cutter crowd.

Now like I said, I sort of agree with you. And don't really want a lot of complete resets. Spending IP efficiently is part of the challenge of the game for me. But I can see an opposite viewpoint, that would say that anything which makes the game more fun and interesting (like being able to completely rearrange your character's playstyle) is a good thing for players and a good thing for FunCom.

If FunCom announced that you could do a complete reset once a month, I think a lot of people would cheer vigorously. Maybe even me.

The fact of the matter is that no skill system allows the complete and instant untraining of a skill in these types of games. Nobody does that because it invalidates the efforts of the people that already have invested in whatever skillset the person would switch to. Reset points are instantaneous retraining. Not over time. You can't demand your fun take precendent over the sense of achievement of others. Because that's their fun too and nobody can judge whose fun is more important except Funcom.

You say what's "Well if the system is in place, a person already established can switch skills and give it a rest if they want to. What if they don't want to? Because suddenly there's a glut of people around just like him, they have to leave their chosen skillset to be different?

On the cookie cutter weapon thing, what's wrong with losing your identity? Hrm...Did any of the schools you went to switch from an open dress code to uniforms while you were there? And how did it make you feel. A person's identity in these games is often more important than how effective they are. Despite massive warning from others, people went Atrox NT. People laughed...Until when in the upper levels when it suddenly became apparent that an Atrox NT was actually viable. But nobody can replicate the effectiveness of a high level Atrox NT overnight through the use of IPR. They have to create a new one and level it up to begin comparing. Weapons and armor doesn't work that way.

Why bother having all those different weapon and armor types? What your promoting, easy switching between skill sets, could reduce a whole lot of lag. Two weapons and two armor sets would do nicely if everyone is going to change every week because of overly abundant IPR. One being the old set and one being the new set for everyone to switch into.

Better still, why stop at a complete reset once a month? Why not let people change breed and profession every month as well, keeping their credits and levels? That would be fun as well, playing a new profession every month without having to work at it.

[______________Yazule]

Kuroshio,

*golf clap*

You are the man. Dont let all the flavor of the moth- out of IPR - IPR beggars get you down.

Good to see someone making posts about this, there are a number of us anti-IPR people out there.

I do think there will be a point where they make SO many changes that people will need IPR due to FUncom mistakes.

We are not even close to that yet. (changing the color of advents multi ranged for example).

Even with that, full IPR should be gone. Never again.

good posting, keep it up

You get a Dnastyone gold star *stamps his forhead*

D

[Thyrra]

Originally posted by Yazule
You get a Dnastyone gold star *stamps his forhead*

there you go looking like you stamped your own head

---

i get really tired of people changing every month to keep up with the latest weapon fads and whining that they are out of IPR points already and its FC's fault.

FC keeps changing things so much, though, that i think implementing a system where getting more xp lets you "unlearn" skill would be good and would give lvl 200 people a reason to keep earning xp.

[Flapsie]

Originally posted by Lavitar


This is the best suggestion so far imo! 10 ipr to Flapsie!

Thanx
That would get me up to 21 IPR

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Yazule
Kuroshio,

*golf clap*

You are the man. Dont let all the flavor of the moth- out of IPR - IPR beggars get you down.

Good to see someone making posts about this, there are a number of us anti-IPR people out there.

I do think there will be a point where they make SO many changes that people will need IPR due to FUncom mistakes.

We are not even close to that yet. (changing the color of advents multi ranged for example).

Even with that, full IPR should be gone. Never again.

good posting, keep it up

You get a Dnastyone gold star *stamps his forhead*

D

I don't think we'll ever see another mistake like the Adv multi ranged again. They've obviously learned since then. Remember, they recalculated Nanomage nanopool and Atrox Body Dev seamlessly.

My point is gradual change is good. Instant change is bad. Instant change with no penalty or cost is catastrophic. That's why it has never been done by anyone.

Instant change constantly alters the balance of content difficulty and availibilty. Which means the developers have to respond constantly, usually through nerfs. It devalues the achievements of those that focus on a particular path. Which meas the people that are having fun are doing so at the sake of others. And it promotes the cookie cutter, 'flavor of the week' mentality. Which means people lose their identity.

If people want reset points, I don't have a problem with it if they earn them. Not given to them. Not bought with credits from the bottomless wallets availbile to some people (or worse, with real life money exchanged for credits on Ebay). But earned.

[Blackwing]

that characters inactive by the time the full ipr was around should be granted one total.

one total full reset during a characters lifetime is no problem.

i know alot of people who were not active in ao when the full ipr came and had gimped their first characters (heck who did not when the game was new) and later left the game.

coming back now to snoop them out and find they cannot get back on track - that is pretty bad.

as for the other arguments, i still think that limiting the number of reset points or total resets a character has will force MORE cookie cutters instead of LESS. depending upon how fast you can earn the additional iprs i would argue for or against a total reset.

do you think people are more likely to experiment with a character when they do not have thrown 100+ levels down the drain or when they do risk their toon experimenting?