3 fixer cant take down 1 doc together in 5 minutes...

[______________Insida]

The real damage a doctor do come from his debuffs, not from his weapons

[Letah]

Originally posted by Insida
The real damage a doctor do come from his debuffs, not from his weapons

Same for a fixer with slows and roots; same for a trader with debuffs; same for an NT with AOE nukes.

I think those, maybe cept the fixer one, are far superior to my debuff. Which I dont mind, but seems you do.

[________________Luke]

Hey all

Just taken me over an hour to read the entire thread and i found it quite interesting to read. I tend to read a lot of the threads here, but rarely bother to comment.

I sense that Insida perhaps wrote the initial post in anger at not perhaps being able to kill the doc. Now, to the end of the thread, Insida seems to have changed the point of the thread to one of 'the doc is too powerful in heals and 'we' (meaning any profession) can't take the doc down so that is bad for us all.

Personally i think "so what if the doc is very good at higher levels". Remember what the poor doc was like at lower levels!! If the doc is very good at higher levels then fine, just reward for having the patience to get there.

I tend to agree that Insida's initial post does seem like a 'Nerf' cry. Which is a shame. Far too much of that has happened in the past and this merely serves to anger professions.

I could easily ***** and moan about engies not being 'good' in pvp. But what would be the point? I would probably be flamed with 'An engie is not 'supposed' to pvp' (though it would be great to last longer than we do). Likewise... i don't believe the doc should be taken out with ease either. Perhaps quite simply, the fixer is NOT supposed to be able to take out the doc! There's a scary thought huh!

People often scream out for 'balance' in battles/pvp and i think the point 'reduce doc heal ability/reduce fixer ability' is very good and would be fair. But it would be unnecessary.

People often take for granted what they already have in terms of buffs and so on..... shame on them. Be glad for what abilities you do have and if you do need to be reminded of what it's like to be poor in something like pvp or mass pvp, go play an engie to lvl 200, or at least 156.

Cheers all,

Luke

[______________Insida]

-1400 init and -100 to weapon skill. Enough said.. And why a proffession that can do that and also heal should be able to tank that well. You people say that fixers can tank very well in PvP I dont agree with that but oh well.. My snare are good but nothing very powerfull, they break when you get hit and you can also break them with stims. Take Soldiers now. He can tank very well but is damage is really not impressive and they dont have a single debuff. Look at NT's damage is long ranged and quite awesome at high level, but has soon as two people target him, hes screwd if he cant cast NS. Same for traders, their debuffs are awesome but he just cant tank for ****. Enforcers hit very hard but they are easy to take down when they are targted by multiple opponents, they are also 20 feet tall and they need to get in melee range. Now look at doctors. They debuff almost as well as traders, they help their team to survive and they can also tank like Soldiers.. Doctors are powerfull, dangerous and hard to take down. Thats not fair for the 11 other proffessions..

[Letah]

Originally posted by Insida
-1400 init and -100 to weapon skill. Enough said.. And why a proffession that can do that and also heal should be able to tank that well. You people say that fixers can tank very well in PvP I dont agree with that but oh well.. My snare are good but nothing very powerfull, they break when you get hit and you can also break them with stims. Take Soldiers now. He can tank very well but is damage is really not impressive and they dont have a single debuff. Look at NT's damage is long ranged and quite awesome at high level, but has soon as two people target him, hes screwd if he cant cast NS. Same for traders, their debuffs are awesome but he just cant tank for ****. Enforcers hit very hard but they are easy to take down when they are targted by multiple opponents, they are also 20 feet tall and they need to get in melee range. Now look at doctors. They debuff almost as well as traders, they help their team to survive and they can also tank like Soldiers.. Doctors are powerfull, dangerous and hard to take down. Thats not fair for the 11 other proffessions..

I'm sorry but thats total bollocks.

You people say that fixers can tank very well in PvP I dont agree with that but oh well
You can, got got supreme DMS (evades) and better NR cept enf.

Take Soldiers now. He can tank very well but is damage is really not impressive and they dont have a single debuff
They got supreme dmg! Their alphas are *deadly*, you cant deny that! They also debuff me so I cant CH.

Look at NT's damage is long ranged and quite awesome at high level, but has soon as two people target him, hes screwd if he cant cast NS
They can cast NS, and if they cant they are debuffed. Hey surprise! I cant heal if im debuffed.

Same for traders, their debuffs are awesome but he just cant tank for ****.
Agreed.

Enforcers hit very hard but they are easy to take down when they are targted by multiple opponents
Trust me, they last (just as soldiers) longer against multiple opponents. Not fixers no..

We *cant* hold long against multiple ppl, the world isnt fixer-only you know. Against a sigh, non fixer-only group I cant stand longer then 15s.

[______________Insida]

I never said you could hold long, but you still hold hella longer than any enforcers or any other debuffers. As for the fixer tanking ability, its only against regular attack. And mass pvp is a Special attack frag fest.

[Letah]

Originally posted by Insida
I never said you could hold long, but you still hold hella longer than any enforcers or any other debuffers.

Plain lie, not true. Ask any docs here; we dont hold long if we are attacked by multiple people in mass wars. On the RARE occasion like oyu with the fixers maybe, but dont we all have some lucky events?

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

Funny thing is doc's really don't have many anti-classes, and the ones they fear are the same ones eveyone fears, traders (who they now have a nano defense, not saying it's great, just saying it's there) and EQB enforcers, esp with some assistance from a stuner like myself. Funcom seems to think the doc's anti-class should be a soldier, but I don't know any soldier weapons that can damage much faster than Lifegiving Elixir can heal, esp with a UBT on him.

[______________Insida]

Not really lucky. Ask anyone who did alot of PvP beside a doctor and they will tell you that you are the hardest/longest to take down without drains. Even worst, soldier TMS can be canceled with guns now.. while the only thing specificaly made against doctor is anti-ch nano casted by a proff thats under NSD most of the time and its 140% NR with really huge casting time and low range and most doctor have close to 1k NR and they play with low aggro setting. And anyway. A doctor can cast CH even if he's divested by 210, all he need his mochams and towers maybe. You all say that fixer NR is awesome and at full def, almost nothing hit us. I will say the same about doctors with 1k NR at full def under a trader trying to land Plunder Skills.

[Portulis]

I'm still trying to figure out the point of this thread aside from Insida thinks docs should be nerfed.

I don't at all feel "uber" with my doc on the battlefield, he dies all the time. Generally not from a fixer although I remember Argulace killing me not that long ago. He had help and knew what he was doing, and I was in a bad spot out of range of my teamates to get assistance from them.

When my doc gets in targeting range, I die from alpha blasts, and while I might get off 1 CH, I'll die during recharge, its that simple.
When you see the big red ball on the doc you have 8 seconds to alpha him and he can't do a damn thing about it.

What is the counter to the slow high damage weapons? Init debuffs. Should every fixer, doc, adv, crat run free with their manex? Shouldn't a EQB enforcer have to worry about getting init debuff?

Other thing I"m gonna bring up here is docs are good at PVP at high levels, but they aren't worth crap until deep into title level 5.
A 154 doc on the battlefield is an easy kill, a 180 doc isn't.

[______________Insida]

lol your just proving my point. What justify that you need to be able to put enough damage in 8 seconds to kill a doc while you can take all that power and kill 5 ppl during that time who are either going to debuff you and do low damage or do high damage and wont put much resistance..

[Coldstrike]

Just one thing I'd like to add. The init debuff is a lot less powerful in 2 or more vs. 1 situations now that the virus scanner is in the game.

[______________Insida]

Yes but most of the time you have someone targetted on you. In mass PvP, Im rarely able to sit and use my kit. Its the same for Virus Scanner.

[______________WeDeLL]

ahh next nerf thread.
insidia-if u cant kill doc it doesnt mean they should be nerfed. i play ma and i dont even try to fight them but again i suck in pvp now so i just run when i see enf, soldier, doc, fixer. if u cant kill doc just run and stop calling for nerf. do i want to nerf ga? no i dont. first u plp wanted to nerf traders, soldiers, after that mas and now enfs and docs. if u keep calling for nerfs there wont be any1 to nerf soon but engis.

[______________Insida]

I couldnt care less that Im not able to kill doc but I do care about the other 7 proffession who can simply not even think of harming a doctor. Think about it when you see an enforcer next to a doctor both under attack and the enforcer is send to reclaim 2minutes before the doc. After that go read the description of enforcers where its said that he's a tank.

[______________WeDeLL]

ohh u do care about 7 other professions who cant harm doc? how many professions can kill fixer? NTs and traders if they can deprive u? what about soldiers, mas, engis, crats, agents, docs, mps who cant kill fixer cos they just cant hit him except for specials? does it make 7 professions who cant kill fixer? should FC nerf fixers then?

[______________WeDeLL]

oh and yes docs shouldnt tank but they got best heals so they should be able to heal for a long time and be hard to kill. enf should be best tank but with help of healing classes like docs, mas, advs. so if in mass pvp enf die faster then doc thats ok i think cos like i said before docs should be very hard to kill.

[______________Zindel]

Hehe, I missed this thread, wasn't but a few days ago...

I was on scene with Insida, we were on the outskirts of a large LC area in DAV where Omni had just retreated from defending a base that was pretty much over before we got there. We were a few of the last people in the area when the doctor (Loveyou) was spotted. This wasn't as chaotic a battle as it sounds. The three of us worked very hard together to keep the doc in one spot, trying to exhaust her nano. I switched to MCS on the first init debuff and when aggro wasn't on me, was recharging and using the virus scanners. There was at least one time that we synched our burst and the effect was crap. I don't have a problem with a doc standing up to 3 fixers, but given the amount of time that passed in this battle, all the nano spent on init debuffs and CH, she should have been dead.....really dead.

Not a nerf doc post, rather adding some validity to Insida's frustrations.

Why can't 3 Fixers kill a doc?

Why can't 50 MA's kill a fixer/doc/trader/enforcer/soldier/adventurer?

LOL Smooch!

[______________Insida]

I bet that if we werent fixers, we would have been dead or we would have ran away lol..

[Turin]

Originally posted by Insida
Try Pain of particia with that Pistol buff from engi and a tower. You will see that Doctor damage is far from sucking and I also place the dots and nuke in the damage area. Try it, you will see that your damage is very close to what a fixer can do when you have all the proper stuff. Of course Pain of partica is hard to get but I saw a good 20+ doctors with that gun so its not an 'exception to the rule' Test it if you dont beleive me. Pain of Patrica + Pistol buff + tower + 2 dots. After that, tell me that your damage suck. You really overestimate the damage of fixers. And in PvP. lemme tell you that manex really doesnt rock with its speed and Projectile damage. Doctors use the same weapons they only have less Attack rating but only with a few specific weapons. If they use weapons that can be buffed by other proffession, their damage get pretty closer to the 'damager dealer proffessions' Shotgun and SMG cant be buffed but Pistol, AR and Rifle can and give you a nice Attack rating, even if your skill is dark blue. Why bringing this back to the 'fixer in ga4 omg uber!!!111@'. I know my proffession is also unbalanced but Im talking about the doctors here, not the fixers. We are unbalanced, I admit it. But does that make doctor not unbalanced? Anyway this discution is pretty much over, none of you is gonna admit that you are very unbalanced compared to most of the proffession and its turning into a nerf threat or whatever... To make this short, why a proffession that can be so dangerous as doctor can be so hard to kill. While the other dangerous classes are so easily killed? Its not fair for the others. Why doctors can be better tank than Enforcers and Soldiers in TMS in PvP?

You can get those same buffs we can, and your ATR will still be higher. And dont expect not to be attacked when you attack someone else. Especially when you get to wear a god suit.