3 fixer cant take down 1 doc together in 5 minutes...

[______________Insida]

This is just to prove that you can also be a good damage dealer. What upset me the most is not that you can do damage but you can debuff, tank and help others. Remember when we were lowbie and the doc was VERY important in team mission because of hhis healing power. But do you remember also that doctors could simply not take aggro at all. Some had a macro to warn the team that it was dangerous and the enforcer needed to get aggro and fast. But at high level, its not the case, with CH that you can cast SO MANY TIMES you become the ultimate tank while also staying the powerfull debuffer and a lifesaver for everyone.. A doctor shouldnt be able to be such a threat and so helpfull while being so hard to kill compared to the other proffessions. Its unbalancing.

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by Insida
Ill repeat myself again ok? Why can a class be so dangerous, so hard to kill and so helpfull to other? Why all the other have more balanced weakness/strenght? All the support proffession are easy to kill but they are threat excpeted doctors. Leave the damn fixers alone for a second and get out of your shell. Not only you guys are very good debuffers (-1400init and -100 weaponskills) but you are also the best healers. Together theses two things are good but doctor are better tank than a TMS Soldiers or Enforcers in mass PvP. Dont mention the drains, dominate,NSD, Roots, stun because EVERYONE is affected by them, not only doctors.

You aren't listening.

A Doctor's strengths are init debuffs, Dots, and Healing.

Our biggest weakness is being debuffed in Bio Met.

Every profession has strengths and weaknesses. Our strengths just happen to be good at keeping people alive (hello, our profession is titled "doctor").. and where were you complaining about our ability to heal when teaming with you doing missions, or out on the battlefield healing you sorry behind?

We're, as you say "hard to kill" (because we heal, wow you're brilliant) and "helpful to other" (um, we're a support class, and uh, we heal?). You're simply stating the obvious.

And for the record, we are NOT better tanks than Soldiers/Enforcers in PvP OR in PvM. We may be able to heal ourselves if we're getting hit hard, but we're much more effective standing back and healing the people with nearly twice our hitpoints who also do a hell of a lot more damage than we do. While we do so, we try to debuff the enemy. That's our profession in a nutshell.

If you think that's overpowered, fine. But please notice, Insida, that you are the only one arguing this. I think you're trying far too hard to get Doctors nerfed, and for a very stupid reason (see your first post, and my long response to you on page 3 I think, which I'm pretty sure you ignored completely since you haven't commented on it once). If you nerf our ability to heal others (read: our job), then of course it will make us easier to kill. But why not simply use the EIGHT OTHER PROFESSIONS we've told you about which can help spank us instead of trying to be the hero who can kill everyone.

I can not easily kill a Trader. Two Doctors can probably not easily kill a Trader. You can not easily kill a Doctor. Neither can a few init debuffed Fixers. I really don't see a problem here. So please, stop this now.

Annoyed.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Letah


Problem is you sarcifice your hots + dots + temphp + teamhp by doing that. Btw, pop is not a doc only weapon, so any MP, crat engie or whatever can have the same. it's a fact we have the lowest weaponskills together with a few other professions, so we will always be the worst dmg dealers unless a doc only gun sudenly would appear (not a chance).

Besides that; a doctor better not go to the frontline doing massive dmg if (s)he doesnt want to be debuffed/killed.

I find the comments about "you help others AND can heal well" funny, Thats what a doc is about!!. Our role. Our purpose. The reason I rolled a doc. Do you see me complaining about enf dmg? Naw, its THEIR purpose. They *hurt*, but I dont want it nerfed because they are supposed to hurt.

I don't care what you need to give up for it. I'm just saying that a doctor *can* do plenty of damage if they want to.

[______________Insida]

Nobody can easily kill a trader except an enforcer. But I dont care because trader is a very dangerous proffession(the most dangerous after agent I think) but hes very weak when hes facing multiple opponent. Same for MP and his debuffs, they are powerfull but MP can simply not tank at all. While doctor got powerfull debuffs, healing power and can tank like crazy. Ive seen doctors tanking little armies and he died because so many ppl were attacking him, his CH recharge was not quick enough otherwise he would have survived even longer. And you know why we all attacked that doctor? Because we werent able to kill anybody his healing was a lifesaver for everyone and Im pretty sure his debuff kept alot of traders, NT and fixers from doing their things. I saw Letah once in 2ho tanking 6 ppl at the same time while we were all killing her attackers. I dont think she managed to heal us but its not like we needed any healing, all the opposition fire was directed at her... I know doctors weakness is debuffs but they are the weakness of everyone, not only doctors. I even bet that a TL6 doc with mochams and tower can still CH after being divested by -210..

[______________Insida]

I really dont want Doctor healing ability or debuffing to be nerfed but their ability to tank need to be lowered to help balancing this game.

[_______________Fryli]

Yea... and the ablity of Fixers to tank crowds of enemies and uber uniques need to be scaled down...

After all you are not a "Tank" profession.... yet as it is now you are the uber tank-profession in the game...

I dont want Fixers to be nerfed.... but their ability to tank need to be lowered to help balancing this game.

Ohh... and why should you have insta-evac...insta-roots.... super-runspeed.... i think that have to be scaled down too...

[Sheffy]

Fryli is so good at finding the perfect blend of sarcasm and truth.

[Letah]

Originally posted by Coldstrike


I don't care what you need to give up for it. I'm just saying that a doctor *can* do plenty of damage if they want to.

You go fully implant for OMHH then at go use that at low lvl, omg nerf! You can heal way too much for your lvl! Yes, very silly remark dont you think?

Read sheffy's post, sums it up greatly.

If your envy of the ability to heal go roll a doc, then you will realize how much you will suck in the damage part.

I got a 166 ma, 176 soldier as well; I think I can pretty much compare which of the ones do the most and the least dmg, and trust me Letah does a laughable amount. That was the case before criutnerf, after critnerf, before UVC-age, after UVC age, whatever.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Letah


You go fully implant for OMHH then at go use that at low lvl, omg nerf! You can heal way too much for your lvl! Yes, very silly remark dont you think?

Read sheffy's post, sums it up greatly.

If your envy of the ability to heal go roll a doc, then you will realize how much you will suck in the damage part.

I got a 166 ma, 176 soldier as well; I think I can pretty much compare which of the ones do the most and the least dmg, and trust me Letah does a laughable amount. That was the case before criutnerf, after critnerf, before UVC-age, after UVC age, whatever.

I have not made a single comment on a doctors healing ability in this post at all. All I'm saying is I have seen docs do good damage. So if you choose not to do good damage, and then complain that you don't do good damage, then maybe you should rethink your setup? And "you" does not necesarily mean you Letah, but the ones who keeps bringing up the low damage dealing ability of a doc all the time.

I have seen PoP docs show more damage in damage dump during a PvM session than a boosted hellspinner soldier.

[Letah]

Originally posted by Insida
I saw Letah once in 2ho tanking 6 ppl at the same time while we were all killing her attackers. I dont think she managed to heal us but its not like we needed any healing, all the opposition fire was directed at her... I know doctors weakness is debuffs but they are the weakness of everyone, not only doctors. I even bet that a TL6 doc with mochams and tower can still CH after being divested by -210..

Yes, I do that once in a while, but I can't do that for long, at most 15secs or so (2 CH's) when lucky. During that time I have the utmost faith in the omnis backing me up, playing doc is about trusting your team.

I saw Argulace and Blizzaro "duking it out" by walking from stairs to R lair THRU boxroom a lot of time. OMG they should tone that down. I saw Cyboot duking it out for 1min, OMG that cant be possible. Sheesh.

We docs are supposed to the the masters at healing, and this is the result; we do negative damage, and we do it great. As we should.

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by Insida
Nobody can easily kill a trader except an enforcer. But I dont care because trader is a very dangerous proffession(the most dangerous after agent I think) but hes very weak when hes facing multiple opponent.

For the record, I'm very weak when I'm facing multiple opponents too, given the right mix. I'm very weak when facing just one opponent too, depending on the profession. Get a nice blend of professions and there is no way a Doctor can win unless he runs away (which I don't consider winning).

I've also seen a Trader single-handedly take out a team of 5 in 2ho -- on multiple occasions.

You say you don't want our healing or debuffs nerfed yet you want us to not be able to tank anymore. What exactly do you want changed then? The reason we can "tank" is because we can heal ourselves. So, if you don't want us to tank ... ? See the contradiction?

And I'm with Fryli. If our ability to tank is lowered, then get rid of Grid Armor so yours is too. This just simply isn't a winning battle you're fighting. You don't like the strength of my profession, and I don't like yours. You're practically begging for my profession to be nerfed (through whining), while I'm not asking for Fixers to be nerfed. I deal with it and find ways around it if I want to kill a Fixer in mass PvP. I told you how to deal with killing a Doctor, and yet you refuse to acknowledge how possible it is.

Why is that?

[Letah]

Originally posted by Coldstrike


I have not made a single comment on a doctors healing ability in this post at all. All I'm saying is I have seen docs do good damage. So if you choose not to do good damage, and then complain that you don't do good damage, then maybe you should rethink your setup? And "you" does not necesarily mean you Letah, but the ones who keeps bringing up the low damage dealing ability of a doc all the time.

I have seen PoP docs show more damage in damage dump during a PvM session than a boosted hellspinner soldier.

Maybe those soldiers should leave the chests alone then Sorry but I dont believe that.

No matter how you put it, a combat class can always do more dmg. *that* is the main point here. By getting more then 900 atk skill a doc lowers healing capabilites, as (s)he should.

[Letah]

Originally posted by Sheffy


For the record, I'm very weak when I'm facing multiple opponents too, given the right mix. I'm very weak when facing just one opponent too, depending on the profession. Get a nice blend of professions and there is no way a Doctor can win unless he runs away (which I don't consider winning).

I've also seen a Trader single-handedly take out a team of 5 in 2ho -- on multiple occasions.

You say you don't want our healing or debuffs nerfed yet you want us to not be able to tank anymore. What exactly do you want changed then? The reason we can "tank" is because we can heal ourselves. So, if you don't want us to tank ... ? See the contradiction?

And I'm with Fryli. If our ability to tank is lowered, then get rid of Grid Armor so yours is too. This just simply isn't a winning battle you're fighting. You don't like the strength of my profession, and I don't like yours. You're practically begging for my profession to be nerfed (through whining), while I'm not asking for Fixers to be nerfed. I deal with it and find ways around it if I want to kill a Fixer in mass PvP. I told you how to deal with killing a Doctor, and yet you refuse to acknowledge how possible it is.

Why is that?

To add to this great post; I've given you with a lost of professions that shut us down completely. We cant tank groups of ppl that have such ppl in it, or not for a few secs (2h0 example was at most 15s)

[Paffy]

"Our biggest weakness is being debuffed in Bio Met."

Umm. I though that debuffing Mat Met would be better option but what do I know

Zarch and da chars

[Sheffy]

All of our nanos (heals, debuffs, dots, hots, nukes, HP buffs, even our vaccine line) rely on Bio Met. Only heals, hots and hp buffs rely on Matter Met.

I also have far more excess MM than I do in BM.

But take your pick

[Letah]

Originally posted by Zarch
"Our biggest weakness is being debuffed in Bio Met."

Umm. I though that debuffing Mat Met would be better option but what do I know

Zarch and da chars

got more overload in MM then BM too.

[______________Insida]

My ability to tank have been extremely lowered during the last few patches, special attack are refreshing alot faster now and I have to face anti fixer nuke that damage me ever 3 seconds for 2k damage. Fixers are no tank in PvP anymore. Thats history. A proffession like doctor with all their ability shouldnt take such a long time or so many debuff to be killed. Compare yourself to a trader or NT. Those two can debuff but the help they give to their team is low when it comes to restoration beside their buffs. Now take doctor, they are able to debuff you very well, heal their team and also tank as well as a Soldier or enforcer. Thats not right. Of course, we all know why you can tank that well and thats because of your healing. But it shouldnt be as hard as it is right now to stop you from saving everyones life and debuffing the crap out of your enemies. You really seem to not get my point. Im comparing you to EVERY OTHER PROFFESSION now. Not only fixers. Very good tanking, Healing and Debuffing all in one is unbalanced.

[Letah]

You forget we cant do that all at the same time.

We tank or we heal others. Thats it.

[______________Insida]

Thats not what I see most of the time unless the doctor is being targetted by more than 6 ppl

[Jynne]

This has turned into an utterly moronic whine/flame session.

For those of you who say doctors deal too much damage: Every single solitary other profession in the game can get equal or higher attack rating in any weapon a doctor can possibly use, with a few professions being excepted for martial arts and shotgun. There are no doctor-specific weapons. Every single weapon a doctor can use, anyone can use. Finally, the crushing majority of weapon skill implants conflict with critical nano skill implants for doctors, further limiting their ability to have a high attack rating without dropping entire nano lines. Doctors have no offensive buffs other than expertises; the only buffs we can get to raise our attack rating are available to everyone.

We're at the absolute bottom of damage-per-second potential as a profession. There's really no argument to that.

What I will give you is that a doctor who meets the profession's damage-dealing potential is capable of outdamaging people from other professions who do not meet theirs. But - it isn't the fault of anyone but yourself if you haven't built your character to its potential

To the people that complain about doctors with aimedshot: You can get the same or better rifle and aimed shot skills as we do, the same buffs we can, and use the same rifles we can. If rifle/AS is so very good that the worst possible rifle/AS skills in the game need to be nerfed, then you're being dumb for not using it too.

Nerf stupidity.