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Thread: 3 fixer cant take down 1 doc together in 5 minutes...

  1. #61
    True, but theres no proffession in this game that can cause so much havoc, damage and help others than doctors, which is what I dislike and make them more unbalanced. Everthing is possible in this game. I saw fixers beating doctors or NT, soldiers killing traders and fixers.. etc. All Im saying is that out of all the proffessions in this game, no one can be such a threat and be so hard to kill than a doc but invery high unbalanced way. If we could rate all the proffessions on a scale of 1 to 10 in 3 different areas which are damage, power and survivabilty. Doctor would end up close to 10 in all the three area while the rest of the proffession would be more balanced, some a little less but still more. Lets take fixer for example. Our damage is close good but not the best. Ill give it a good 7.5/10. Our power is low, our only attack nano is root and snare, they are good but no way near any of the good debuff in this game. Ill give them a 4/10. Our survivabilty is the best with Evac, ill give it a 9/10. Now take doctors. Their damage damage is not that bad, just a little less than what fixers can do. Ill give it a 7/10. They power is really high. They can heal and debuff, both things are VERY powerfull. Ill give it a 9/10. Their survival ability is awesome. No one can take more hit than a doc, ill give it a 10/10. Lets take Traders now. Their damage is good, better than most support proffessions. ill give it a 8.5/10. Their power is definatly the deadliest so Ill give it a 10/10. Their survival ability is quite low. Their heal can simply not cover more than one player attack, and he must have layered drains. Ill give it a 4/10. Maybe my numbers are not the best but they are very close to the current balance in this game.

  2. #62
    I dont really care that my proffession isnt really suited for duel against doctors. But I do care about all the superior abilities that they have while others are simply inferior. I know we cant have it all but this doesnt seem to touch the doctors... Thats where the unbalance start. Comparing fixers and doctors was not such a good idea, but compare them to a proffession like MA, Adv or NT. The doctor is supperior in every area excepted damage in the NT case. That in not acceptable to me.

  3. #63
    Originally posted by Insida
    I dont really care that my proffession isnt really suited for duel against doctors. But I do care about all the superior abilities that they have while others are simply inferior. I know we cant have it all but this doesnt seem to touch the doctors... Thats where the unbalance start. Comparing fixers and doctors was not such a good idea, but compare them to a proffession like MA, Adv or NT. The doctor is supperior in every area excepted damage in the NT case. That in not acceptable to me.
    Insida...

    You're wrong. I'm sorry. You're so wrong that I don't know what else to say. I've played a doctor for 176 levels and over a year actual time and we as a profession do less damage now than we ever have done in the history of AO.

    Doctors have one superior ability, healing, and one very good ability, debuffing. Everything - and I mean everything - else we can do is considerably sub-standard.
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  4. #64
    I agree, his esitamtion of our "dmg" on his 1-10 scale is laughable. We are on the bottum of the totumpole in the dmg department.


    Just another nerf docs thread. Nothing special here. He and his buddies couldnt own someone, so now they need to be nerfed. Its typical of the mindset in this game.

    formula to determine nerf.

    Is my prof most uberest in game?

    If answer is no, ask for nerf of other.

    If answer is yes, ask for nerf anywyas just to make sure.
    Nitsobar - lvl 219/13 Doc - Equipment - Perks - History
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  5. #65
    This is crazy. Docs do 7/10 damage while Fixers do 7.5/10?

    No way.

    Look, docs have no green 5/level weapon skills.

    At best they have blue 4/level skills, pistol, shotgun.
    Rifle is 3/level skill. Only weapons skills boost we have are expertises, and soldier masteries and agent buffs. My doc has triple implanted shotgun and self buffed my attack rating is 950ish with the 1000 token board. That ain't high enough to hit a fixer in GA4. With Sabretooth and AT I can get up to 1050 or so.

    I don't know all the fixer SMG buffs but I know a title level 5 fixer can buff SMG 50 points or more, and so right away you have a 50 point AMR advantage, and this is against a class that has all blue evade skills. Fixers also have damage buffs which is something docs don't have either.

    So, damage wise, I'd give fixers a 7, and docs a 5, with 5 being average damage, considering a 4/level skill being considered average.
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  6. #66
    Well, realize everybody cant own everyone etc...

    I fought a doc pretty well, since the init debuff dont affect me much, but I needed 1 enf to help me finish the doc off...Dont see any unbalance in 1 agent & 1 enf killing a doc, thats alot of pain in a short time for the doc...

    3 fixers are good for their stuff, maybe they should consentrate on that, instead of complaining about docs..Docs are cute & cuddly
    Hermy
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  7. #67
    Insida... now you are just going on with the same old ****t u pretty much always been doing on the BB. Crying nerf upon some other profession.
    Woot... a doc managed to survive being attacked by 3 fixers.... how many times do i see you and your fellow fixers charge into groups of 10-15 players of oposit faction to finish a kill and get away with it? I dont know many doc's that can pull that trick 9 out of 10 times... Where in this nerfcry story of yours did the doc kill anyone? The agent got away... and the doc did not kill any fixer during a 5 min fight did he?

    Doc's have the best healingpower in the game, our dmg have been largely scaled down due to crittnerf... (yea, crittnerf hit others too, but new weapons and self only buffs are introdused to compensate)
    It's not like we kill anyone with ease in battles, it take a loot of time to kill anyone and fixers vs doc is mostly a waiste of time in my experience.

    We are anoying becuase we have debuff, and good healingpowers. I dunno if i speak for anyone else, but i think my debuff saves more of my comrades in battlefights then it saves myself. Why? because besides healing ppl, i always try keep the nt, fixer, trader, rooters and other debuffers back with my debuff to give my side an advantage. What is stopping you as a fixer for chainrooting a whole bunch of enemies...? yea... most likely the doc who puts an icky initdebuff on you to slow you down...

    Yea...you had a problem finishing of a doc in a 3 vs 1 situation... but i dont see the doc as more superiour then you are running around in your uber GA4. Given there was a trader, nt, agent, mp... fighting the doc with you... i think i pretty much know the outcome of the fight for sure...
    If u put 3 doc's vs 1 Fixer... well the outcome would be that same as you experienced with 3 Fixers vs 1 Doc... Either u cast one root/snare or you evac...

    It's not like you as a Smurf is not equal to a doc at your lvl... when it comes to surviving... you on the other hand have a better chanse of killing ppl...

  8. #68
    As someone already meantioned, Doc's actually do damage. The claim that they dont is BS.

    Rifle is easy to implant and both (Rifle/AS as buffs) are usually available. As everyone knows by now, or should, the AS is single most reliable special in whole game currently in PvP.

    I would go as far (from my own experience) to say that Fling is currently almost useless (I havent been hitted with high Fling Shot for ages, usually it hits less than 300 ).

    Burst is quite ok hitting good "averages" ie 1k-1.5k's

    Full Auto is only good against someone in full agro. I been hit for 2.6 FA's in full agro so I think its pretty good... but I've heard stories of low FA's for people who are in defensive.

    Aimed Shot? I am always hit for 1.7k-3k and thats the amount I hit myself (usually I hit people for 2.7k-2.9k) with AS and I could bet money that I will hit for that 2.7k-2.9k every time. You can be in full def or full agro. It dont really matter.

    So Doctor with fast AS gun like Caterwaul does decent damage and have high ATT rating which equals damage.

    For those numbers to have any meaning, I also say that I have usually ~8k health, RRFE's etc.

    I also agree on Doctor's view that by choosing Manex for PvP you are screaming "debuff me and make me useless". Even with your 1000-1200 Init you are not too scary afted Init debuff with 3.5/3.5 base gun.

    One thing that I wonder though is... what IF you don't have GA III or IV ? It is funny that everyone is refering to those. Does it mean that GA is actually class "fixing" nano which every Fixer should own but for some reason FC decided to make it 100-500M item in rarity (have become much common lately btw so I expect prices to start droppin, even with 100 new Fixers).

    We all know how uber GA IV is but what about Fixer in Mk2 or similar? Dunno but it wont scare me a bit... I would jump on one happily (unlike GA one).

    Anyways, I just started my Fixer (yes, after that big bad NT nuke) like 100 others and I am now level 105 (without GA). I still like it a lot though

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  9. #69
    Why can't 3 Fixers kill a doc?

    Why can't 50 MA's kill a fixer/doc/trader/enforcer/soldier/adventurer?
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  10. #70
    Originally posted by Stromm


    Letah doesn't need to remind you of ****.



    Like i said...more holes than swiss cheese.

    ROFL!!! Roll an uber MP instead! GA SUXXORS!!

    LOL, I wonder if anyone believed that...
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  11. #71
    Originally posted by The Smooch
    Why can't 3 Fixers kill a doc?

    Why can't 50 MA's kill a fixer/doc/trader/enforcer/soldier/adventurer?
    I feel a "how many MAs does it take to replace a lightbulb" joke coming on...
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  12. #72
    Try Pain of particia with that Pistol buff from engi and a tower. You will see that Doctor damage is far from sucking and I also place the dots and nuke in the damage area. Try it, you will see that your damage is very close to what a fixer can do when you have all the proper stuff. Of course Pain of partica is hard to get but I saw a good 20+ doctors with that gun so its not an 'exception to the rule' Test it if you dont beleive me. Pain of Patrica + Pistol buff + tower + 2 dots. After that, tell me that your damage suck. You really overestimate the damage of fixers. And in PvP. lemme tell you that manex really doesnt rock with its speed and Projectile damage. Doctors use the same weapons they only have less Attack rating but only with a few specific weapons. If they use weapons that can be buffed by other proffession, their damage get pretty closer to the 'damager dealer proffessions' Shotgun and SMG cant be buffed but Pistol, AR and Rifle can and give you a nice Attack rating, even if your skill is dark blue. Why bringing this back to the 'fixer in ga4 omg uber!!!111@'. I know my proffession is also unbalanced but Im talking about the doctors here, not the fixers. We are unbalanced, I admit it. But does that make doctor not unbalanced? Anyway this discution is pretty much over, none of you is gonna admit that you are very unbalanced compared to most of the proffession and its turning into a nerf threat or whatever... To make this short, why a proffession that can be so dangerous as doctor can be so hard to kill. While the other dangerous classes are so easily killed? Its not fair for the others. Why doctors can be better tank than Enforcers and Soldiers in TMS in PvP?
    Last edited by Insida; Jan 7th, 2003 at 02:04:12.

  13. #73
    Originally posted by Nothinman
    well, like i said. me and skymarshal both tried to kill a lvl 180 doc, 2 on 1, we didnt hold back. we tried to time our alphas but it didnt kill her, she slowly wore away at skymarshal till he was dead.

    (didnt take THAT long) then she killed me. so yeah she can tank 2 lvl 200 soldiers and kill us as well. seems overpowered? not really.. we can always just walk away.

    Should my ears be burning? hehe

    Anyway you admitted afterwards that you deliberately didn't alpha at the same time as skymarshal, if you had then it would've been a different story and you know it

  14. #74
    Originally posted by Nothinman
    well, like i said. me and skymarshal both tried to kill a lvl 180 doc, 2 on 1, we didnt hold back. we tried to time our alphas but it didnt kill her, she slowly wore away at skymarshal till he was dead.

    (didnt take THAT long) then she killed me. so yeah she can tank 2 lvl 200 soldiers and kill us as well. seems overpowered? not really.. we can always just walk away.

    some docs do an insane amount of damage, so dont even start on that "we do crap for dmg thing" get a caterwaul and AS me for 1500-4k every 15 seconds k?

    pomy would outdamage all my damage in pvp with her AS alone.

    yeah docs are uber... but at least you can run from them : P

    and just FYI i have beaten 3 docs in the 176-183 level range. only because they chose manex or ithika and coundnt do much damage through my high AC reflect and evades.

    the tactic for a soldier is this..

    Start with Aimed shot... swap to your boosted/augmented. TMS, go full aggro with your hellpsinner when TMS is up, cancel Total focus for the evades now that you have AS'ed (might not haveto.. but i need TF for my 200 supernova)

    so now your full aggro with high inits mine is 68 ranged init with UBY on and i shoot pretty fast comparitivly. keeps the bursts flying.. when TMS drops go full DEF... and watch your heal stims.. pray she/he doesnt get a 3-4k AS off in that 30 seconds.

    TMS again when you can, use first aid stims or nano stims if you need the nano for another TMS, use notum focus if you need the nano. again go full aggro... hopefully you havent been hurt too badly in those 3o seconds.

    again.. go def when TMS runs out and cast a 3rd TMS. by now the doc if self buffed should really be running outta nano, unless they are super uber doc of doom. if you cant run em outta nano on 3 TMS 10's and the extra time till you die then its hopeless.

    this also wont work if the doc is using a caterwaul or X-3 because the AS will do most of your health even through TMS and you simply wont last. if the doc is using ithika or manex, you can stand a chance. if your a soldier : )
    Ok this is getting old. Since you went into such detail about fighting a doc, here we go, meta versus a soldier:

    Soldier: TMS before the 15 second timer is down. Start with whatever gun you like.

    Meta: Attack pet on soldier unless he steps over the gas line in which cast attack pets don't work. Start shooting, and chain cursing.

    Soldier: In the five second between each curse, hit the meta for 40% hp.

    Meta: try to heal... pet heals every 15 seconds for 1/2 the dmg the soldier is doing. Meanwhile, meta does no damage through TMS.

    Meta dies.

    Ok got it? Now read carefully... meta vs doc:

    Doc: UBT the meta, if they're smart, double DoT the meta.

    Meta: Dominate BM, then keep casting NSD until it lands while laughing because the doc can't outdamage your healpet.

    Doc: Eventually hit by NSD, can't heal, dies.


    Go back and read my first two posts again, which you so happily ignored. I'm not saying it SHOULD be this way, but guess what? It is. When you're duelling, it's rock paper scissors, and that's that. Some profs you can not kill, as you and I both illustrated, and some classes you can kill no contest, as I illustrated. It's the way it was, is, and will be, and no it ain't gonna change. Like you said, you can just walk away. If insida can't kill someone, he can just grid on out, no worries. Avoid the fights that you will lose, and go for the fights you know you'll win.

    As someone who got all the way up to neo, you of all people should know how it works. :P
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  15. #75
    Problem is that I have to kill the doctor before I can kill anything else.

  16. #76
    Originally posted by THEDEACON!



    ROFL!!! Roll an uber MP instead! GA SUXXORS!!

    LOL, I wonder if anyone believed that...
    lol, what are you talking about? I was saying the poster i quoted was full of holes and saying one thing and doing another. not grid armor. Read it again.
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  17. #77
    Originally posted by Letah


    Castable only by tl 6 nanomage soldiers.

    In return I want a AOE CH heal
    .. at 1/1 and 200 nanocost.

  18. #78
    Originally posted by Pris401



    Should my ears be burning? hehe

    Anyway you admitted afterwards that you deliberately didn't alpha at the same time as skymarshal, if you had then it would've been a different story and you know it

    heh.. as i recall we both hit you pretty hard off the bat with burst and Full auto.. i think we did some other tests too. but you did win quite easily..

    its beside the point though.

    and muergen not sure why your flaming me i know full well about the rock paper scissors routine.. i was just showing that it is possible to beat one as a soldier though its very tough.
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  19. #79
    Originally posted by Insida
    Problem is that I have to kill the doctor before I can kill anything else.
    Holy CRAP dude.

    I was really almost respecting you a couple days ago when we had that long discussion about PvP. Now you've thrown almost all of that out the window. You know that some classes are good against certain classes and not-so-good against others. I've even told you how to beat us in a previous post in this thread.

    You are upset that a buffed-up Doctor (the best healing class in the game) out healed the damage of 3 init debuffed Fixers and ran away without dying.

    And the irony is that had it been any other 3 classes, the outcome could have been very different. You used the example of "3 NTs" which is the lamest thing I've heard. I'm pretty sure 3 NTs can keep Crown/blinds/roots/stuns on the Doctor, hence disabling complete healing, hence a dead Doctor because he can't out-heal the large nukes from 3 NTs. 3 Crats? Chain stuns from 3 Crats could effectively have a Doctor stunned 100% of the time, dead Doctor. 3 Agents? Christ are you nuts? 3 Agents using Concentration is a very dead Doctor. If one of them is mimic Trader and lands divest, that Doc is even more dead.

    And the best part? If you replace those 3 Fixers with 1 Trader, the Doctor would have died! Crazy isn't it? But you don't play a high level Doctor, so I can't expect you to understand why our class is good at what our class is supposed to be good at (...)

    Play smart already. If you see a Doctor, spam their name on your Omni chat or whatever and that should be a clear signal for the debuffing/damage classes to target him quickly so everyone can swarm the Doc and kill him. At least, that's what we intelligent clanners do Or perhaps maybe that's just a little too logical for you. Hmm..

  20. #80
    Doc's dont do dmg? *Cough* AS *Cough* The problem is that your Init Debuff is waaay to destructive it totally will rip apart a professions OFFENSIVE Abilities.
    Despite everything in the end I was a Fixer and I can say it was hell of a ride.

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