Tir Accord broken by Omni - Why does the CoT not appear to acknowledge it?

[UwensBack]

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Welcome to the bureaucratic world of illusion and actuality, Uwen. I should think you’d be familiar with it, you being a clear example of what it embodies.

The “fringe groups” are fringe in the public arena to be sure…but how strange it is that with such organization and numbers making up their ranks that the CoT finds itself unable to locate them.

ahem.... the organisatio and numbers that make up the CoT? They are supported by a very few clans.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Stranger still that their actions intensified when Omni-Tek refused to provide the Clans with windfall from their mining operations. Do you honestly expect me to believe that a group that had no outside support performed a highly organized attack on OT held interests that cost us hundreds of billions of credits? Don’t be so naïve. Someone’s funding and training them…and if you look at the developments of the third civil war, it’s most likely the Council of Thugs.

No, I hold more respect for you than for you to believe such a lie. Of course they had outside funding, just not from the CoT, who are stretched for funds as it is. The CoT's best choice is peace and funding something that will bring down peace would be, for lack of a better term, self destructing. Someone is training them, but its not the CoT. If you want to get into theories, perhaps it is secretly funded by OmniTek in an effort to bring down the image of the clans so that they will look justified in trying to annihlate us.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Also, if by being unoriginal you mean not ****ing up a post with blatant lies, then forgive me if my comments all have the same sound to them. Lies take many shapes; the ring of truth is always the same.[QUOTE]

I do not think that unoriginal is a post ****ed with lies. Lies may take many shapes, but they can stay the same if you truly believe the lies are the truth. You spread lies by spreading Omni propaganda. If you are saying they are not ****ed up, perhaps the propanganda is boring? You should check with OmniBrainwash er Reform on changing your propaganda to something a little more entertaining and, as a side note, believable.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
And all you have done, Uwen, is spread lies.

If I have spread a single lie, it was from misinformation. And I have not spread many lies, as I have good information. And, no, the Voice of Truth is not always good information, but I consider the Independant RubiKans to be good (and neutral).

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
In “More reading for clanners ( this time for thoose how don't follow the CoT )” you lied about the legality of our actions in Sabulum in respect of the Tir Accords. You lied about the CoT’s support of our actions…and when you found that you had no legal basis for your beliefs, you abandoned your loyalties to the Council in an instant.

Yes, that was my misinformed mistake. However, I never changed alliegance because I never pledged alliegance or loyalty to the CoT. You cant go back on something you never, for lack of a better term, went on.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
In this thread you lied about the history of Rubi-Ka, repeatedly. On insurance technology, on the causes of civil wars, and on the invincibility of the clans you have done nothing but make ludicrous statements, especially on the last issue where you made a specious comparison to the Soviet Union. Tell me, could the Soviets read life signs from space? Did they face an opponent as unfamiliar with the outlands as they were? Was there an advantage in military might as gargantuan as the one between Omni-Tek and the Clans? No. We succeeded in routing the North once before, and if we have the support from the ICC and Omni-Prime we had then, we can do it now.

If I lied on this, it was from misinformation. The information I got was straight from the ICC. No, the Soviets could not read life signs from space, but that is an issue of technology. As one type of technology advances, so does the technology to hinder it. Your second question makes no sense, as it is comparing the Soviets to themselves. Yes, there was. The Clans are actually moderately well armed and supplied. The Afghans rocks until the Americans gave them stingers. The Russians still had far superior technology.
When did you route the North? I seem to remember the clans advancing as far south as, what was it, 50km outside Omni-1? Yes my friend, we were in attacking distance of Omni-1 and could have taken it and removed OmniTek from the planet. We, instead, shot ourselves in the foot and signed a peace treaty that greatly weakned us.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
I’ve heard enough of your vague words of malice and watched you jump from one lie, one loyalty, to the next. I now know just what you are.

I have no vague words, or malice for that matter. My words are clear and simple. We need a democratic Rubika. OmniTek has a place in it. A place, not being the entire thing. I do not jump from lies. I have told few lies and were not aware that they were lies at the time. I have never changed loyalties, save once when I quit OmniTek. The only loyalty I have now is my guild. You have now idea who I am.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
A scavenger. An opportunist. A megalomaniac. A man so brainwashed with libertarian ideals that he feels justified in engaging in any immoral act to fulfill his insane pipedream, the “Democratic Rubi-Ka”…under Grand President Siwinski, no doubt.

I am a scavenger, but only because I am an adventurer and sometimes must scavenge for food. If by opportunist, you mean I quit OmniTek when they were enslaving me, I guess I am an opportunist. However, in no other respect am I an opportunist. I am certainly no megalomaniac. I do not even want power, as the responsibility of it burdens me. I like my simple life as a pub owner. My dream is to establish a democratic RubiKa and vote for my leader, not be the leader. If I am brainwashed, it is left over from OmniTek. You, my friend, are more brainwashed than I, for you live in a constant state of suppression and constantly hearing words such as "OmniTek is great." "OmniTek is your friend" "Do not betray OmniTek". As well as being broadcasted 25 hrs a day, 8 days a week, there are signs all over the place bearing the same message. I know from personal Omni experiance. I am not justified in taking any immoral action, as it would contradict my goals. I myself would like to cooperate with OmniTek in removing such impediments to peace as the Dust Brigade. If you believe that a democratic RubiKa is an insane pipedream, then you have given up all hope and I truly feel sorry for you. As I have said before, I do not wish to be the leader, I merely wish to help decide who it is. And Grand President is hardly fitting for a democratic nation.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Well, that will remain a dream.

If you think it must, than I will have to fight you. If you think that what you say is true, than, as I have said before, I feel truly sorry for you, seeing as you are fighting against liberty and freedom. I guess you are merely afraid of change, actually... I do not guess, so much as hope you are merely afraid of change and not actually trying to put down freedom, liberty, and justice.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
The people of this planet will see you for who you are, General, I will make sure of it. Every perversion of truth you utter will be catalogued, every attempt you make at establishing credibility for yourself will be blocked, and the name Dustin "Uwen" Siwinksi will be placed with that of every ambitious warlord who had spun a web of lies that eventually ensared them.

Many people already know who I am. Many people already know what I am. A warrior in the bureacratic battlefield, fighting to uphold the rights of men. General is merely a title for advisor to the President. I am no true General. I utter no perversions of truth, and am shocked that you should speak of them, seeing as most of the things that you say are, in fact, regurgitated OmniTek propaganda, which is the biggest perversion of truth there is. I do not understand why I would be placed in such a book that would hold those like Phillip Ross, Adolf Hitler, and Joseph Stalin. I am no warlord and I spin no lies.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
May the desert winds scatter your ashes.

May they indeed, for I would consider it mor honourable than facing defilement at the hands of OmniTek. May I die honourable fighting the vile plague the is OmniTek. May my remains by scattered to the far reaches of this planet, RubiKa, that I fight for. That I live on. That I love. May they indeed...

Uwen

[____________Sllaagor]

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat

"We" aren't doing anything.

Agreed. No one can quit spouting rhetoric long enough to do anything constructive. Myself included.

Omni-Tek is the judge and jury on this rock, as stated in the Tir Accords Annex 2B.

It's quite possible this whole mess could have been avoided if the Clans had followed the decree of the Council of Truth in the Sabulum matter, allowing Omni-Tek to proceed in their investigation.

I highly doubt that OT would have had much luck finding the Dust Brigade anyway. Sabulum was a ruse, an event designed to cover the DB's true tracks and to lead OT to do exactly what they did: A whole lot of nothing. Shooting up innocents and calling it
a police action.

They didn't, and now everyone's paying for their misconduct.

The great and all-powerful Omni-Pol failed to do their job, so now everyone is paying for their incompetence. I see so much blathering about how superior OT is, the firepower, the man-power ... yet they could not handle an inferior force and were forced to withdraw from Sabulum.

If you want to do us the favor of cleaning house and turning them over to Omni-Pol, we'd appreciate the gesture.

Other than that, step aside, and allow us to perform our peacekeeping duties. (Or "Gestapo Tactics" as you often prefer to label them).

Unpleasant as we find it, It's our job to mop up your mess.

You seem to think that the Clans are responsible for the Dust Brigade. Have the recent attacks shown you nothing? Do they not attack ALL affiliations? Even those with NO affiliation? These are not Clansmen, they are terrorists. They have other financing, support, affiliations ... I wouldn't be surprised to find out that OT is behind them! They make a great excuse to step up your "Gestapo Tactics" ...

What about Sol Banking? What about the other diverse corporations? Everyone wants a piece of the notum pie. If OT would have been honest in their appraisal of Rubi-Ka in the first place, NONE OF THIS (Clans, Dust Brigade, any of it) would have happened. You have only yourselves to blame.

- Sllaagor
Clan - Atrox Enforcer

[UwensBack]

Here, here Sllaagor!

Uwen

[_________OneSilkyCat]

What is it that makes Clanners such irrational creatures?
A culture that overemphasizes the individual?
Incomplete terraforming in the north?
A poor diet, perhaps?

Whatever it is, you people have truly gone over the edge and have fallen into an abysmal incoherence. I’m not even sure if I can call your collection of utterances “arguments” anymore.

Uwen, you’ve degenerated into a complete madman. In each segment of your piecemeal reply there is a misreading, a misinterpretation, a lie, a baseless accusation, an irrelevant statement, or a contradiction of one of your previous claims. You have failed to build on previously established truths, failed to properly cite basic historical developments on this planet and in galactic affairs, failed to provide anything but a fragmented and progressively weak anti-corporate rant.

Your reply deserves no more attention than this.
Stick to cleaning out those beer-mugs, General.

Sllaagor, your reply is equally flawed.

You can “doubt” the possibility of the Dusters having been stationed in Sabulum. You can think it was a trap. You can think it was the truth. Hell, you blame it on the Manteze for all I care. None of that has any bearing on the fact that we will never know the truth. The investigation was brought to halt by the interference of the Clans.

Moreover, those who were fired upon at Sabulum were in no way “innocent”. They had no right to be there and no right to interfere with the police action being taken by Omni-Pol, in Omni-Tek territory, and by permission of the Council of Truth.

Now, after you claim that the Dust Brigade was never in Sabulum, you carry in a statement which contradicts everything you previously mentioned in your reply. You blame the current developments on Omni-Pol for pulling out of Sabulum.

Omni-Tek moves into Sabulum and you label them murderous oppressors.
Omni-Tek moves out of Sabulum and you label them incompetent cowards.

Omni-Tek attempted to conduct their investigation and you say the Dust Brigade wasn’t there and that the effort was a waste of time.
Omni-Tek ceases their investigation and you insinuate the Dust Brigade was there and that Omni-Pol didn’t do their job.

I don't even know what your people's core belief is...besides partisan sniping. It sure isn't truth. You twist and invert it in any shape that points blame at Omni-Tek.

But maybe that's just the Clanner-way. No unbiased thought, no code of conduct, no clear and distinct beliefs based on rational thinking or deliberation. Just “Omni-Tek is bad” uttered in any possible manner.

Pfft. And you call us brainwashed.

Moving on.

The Dust Brigade’s recent attacks seem indiscriminate. Their earlier attacks did not. They targeted Omni-Tek installations and personnel. They attacked during hostilities between the Clans and Omni-Tek during the third civil war. They spew anti-corporate rhetoric similar to Clanners. Recently one of them was recorded saying to a Clanner, “Radiman must be a fool to hire such specimens as you. He is only selling us all out anyway”.

All evidence points to their being, at one time, part of the Clans.
What the recent, random attacks have shown me only supports what I have believed all along, what has been obvious in the past and is obvious now: The Clans are unable to control their populace. The second civil war has shown this. The third civil war has shown this. Sabulum has shown this. The Dusters are just another symptom of this social deficiency.

Your statement that Omni-Tek is behind the Dust Brigade is insane, and does not deserve any contemplation.

Sol Banking might be the force behind the Dust Brigade, nowadays. The thought had crossed my mind…however, as I said, with the level of organization and the numbers that make up the Dust Brigade, it would require a tremendous leap in faith to believe that the Council of Truth knows nothing about them. These ex-Clanners are somewhere out there in Council allocated districts. If the Council of Truth isn’t funding the Dusters, they’re tolerating, even supporting them by not handing Omni-Tek information pertaining to the organization.

And…please…stop crying foul over issues that took place before my grandfather was in diapers. Breogan was bad enough citing something that happened three and a half hundred years ago…you’ve gone into the past three quarters of a millennia in bringing up the appraisal of Rubi-Ka, and frankly you have no basis to claim Omni-Tek was dishonest in their dealings. We gave everyone the opportunity to survey this planet. They refused. We found Notum soon after. Tough luck for them.

Honestly, you people sound like Old Earth Palestinians who were still fuming about the Crusades days before Farma-Tek made their move.

May you trip on the Steps of Madness.

[UwensBack]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
What is it that makes Clanners such irrational creatures?
A culture that overemphasizes the individual?
Incomplete terraforming in the north?
A poor diet, perhaps?

Whatever it is, you people have truly gone over the edge and have fallen into an abysmal incoherence. I’m not even sure if I can call your collection of utterances “arguments” anymore.

Uwen, you’ve degenerated into a complete madman. In each segment of your piecemeal reply there is a misreading, a misinterpretation, a lie, a baseless accusation, an irrelevant statement, or a contradiction of one of your previous claims. You have failed to build on previously established truths, failed to properly cite basic historical developments on this planet and in galactic affairs, failed to provide anything but a fragmented and progressively weak anti-corporate rant.
[QUOTE]

There was no misreading, there was no misinterpretation. My replies were "piecemeal" because I had to get out each individual brainwashed lie YOU were spreading and make my arguements to them so you could understand. Now if you can find more arguement than childish name calling, please go ahead. And please, show me where I contradicted myself.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Your reply deserves no more attention than this.
Stick to cleaning out those beer-mugs, General.

Why is it that you cannot even try to make a rebuttal then? Have you given up because you have nothing to go on?

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Sllaagor, your reply is equally flawed.

You can “doubt” the possibility of the Dusters having been stationed in Sabulum. You can think it was a trap. You can think it was the truth. Hell, you blame it on the Manteze for all I care. None of that has any bearing on the fact that we will never know the truth. The investigation was brought to halt by the interference of the Clans.

Moreover, those who were fired upon at Sabulum were in no way “innocent”. They had no right to be there and no right to interfere with the police action being taken by Omni-Pol, in Omni-Tek territory, and by permission of the Council of Truth.

Now, after you claim that the Dust Brigade was never in Sabulum, you carry in a statement which contradicts everything you previously mentioned in your reply. You blame the current developments on Omni-Pol for pulling out of Sabulum.

Omni-Tek moves into Sabulum and you label them murderous oppressors.
Omni-Tek moves out of Sabulum and you label them incompetent cowards.

No. One group of clansmen believe they never should have been there and that they were murderous oppressors. Another, different obviously, group believes they were doing there jobs and failed when they could not handle a couple clanners who every OmniTek employee says is no match for OmniTek superior equipment and yet OmniTek is no longer in control of Sabulum. And please, innocents are civilians who are not hostile. They were fired upon from the information I recieved. I never contradicted myself because I only fit into one of those groups.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Omni-Tek attempted to conduct their investigation and you say the Dust Brigade wasn’t there and that the effort was a waste of time.
Omni-Tek ceases their investigation and you insinuate the Dust Brigade was there and that Omni-Pol didn’t do their job.

See above.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
I don't even know what your people's core belief is...besides partisan sniping. It sure isn't truth. You twist and invert it in any shape that points blame at Omni-Tek.

You see, thats just it. You Omnis cant get through your brainwashed heads that we have no core belief, other than freedom and liberty from OmniTek. We are not one in our beliefs. We each became clansmen for our different reasons, and, unlike OmniTek, we cannot force people to believe what we want them to believe, neither do we (most of us, including myself the oh-so-insane-ambitious-warlord that you seem to know so much about {in case you couldn't tell, that was sarcasm]) want to.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
But maybe that's just the Clanner-way. No unbiased thought, no code of conduct, no clear and distinct beliefs based on rational thinking or deliberation. Just “Omni-Tek is bad” uttered in any possible manner.

There is unbiased thought, mostly from moderate clanners, which is far more than I can say for OmniTek. You think you jhave no unbiased thought? Please, if any thought at all, yours are all the same. What is it? Whatever OmniTek wants it to be.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Pfft. And you call us brainwashed.

Yes, I do and rightly so.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Moving on.

The Dust Brigade’s recent attacks seem indiscriminate. Their earlier attacks did not. They targeted Omni-Tek installations and personnel. They attacked during hostilities between the Clans and Omni-Tek during the third civil war. They spew anti-corporate rhetoric similar to Clanners. Recently one of them was recorded saying to a Clanner, “Radiman must be a fool to hire such specimens as you. He is only selling us all out anyway”.

Yes, very good! They were not indiscriminate before because they had not yet realised that they had so little backing within the clans. They attack us now because we do not agree with them. There are people other than myself who believe a Democratic RubiKa can include OmniTek. Unfortunately, most of them are clanners, as there seem to be few moderates in OmniTek.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
All evidence points to their being, at one time, part of the Clans.
What the recent, random attacks have shown me only supports what I have believed all along, what has been obvious in the past and is obvious now: The Clans are unable to control their populace. The second civil war has shown this. The third civil war has shown this. Sabulum has shown this. The Dusters are just another symptom of this social deficiency.

Bravo! Did you think of that yourself? The DB were once part of the clans but now they are not. They may call themselves clans, but that doesnt mean they are supported by any kind of majority of us or represent us in any way. The clans cannot control the populace because, sadly, we are not as organised and efficient as OmniTek. However, this also means that we have far more rights than Omni employees.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Your statement that Omni-Tek is behind the Dust Brigade is insane, and does not deserve any contemplation.

Is the reason you say this merely because you have no logical arguement that can cancel my logical arguement? Is your poor Omni brain too tired to think about it now? It is perfectly logical that OmniTek could control the DB. Its also logical that they could control the DB without most of the DB even knowing. As you can see, the DB has done nothing but bring su****ion and doubt to the clans, and that would appear to be a bit more of an OmniTek goal than a clan one.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Sol Banking might be the force behind the Dust Brigade, nowadays. The thought had crossed my mind…however, as I said, with the level of organization and the numbers that make up the Dust Brigade, it would require a tremendous leap in faith to believe that the Council of Truth knows nothing about them. These ex-Clanners are somewhere out there in Council allocated districts. If the Council of Truth isn’t funding the Dusters, they’re tolerating, even supporting them by not handing Omni-Tek information pertaining to the organization.

Did I ever say anything about the CoT knowing nothing about them? No, I said that the CoT does not support them. Perhaps the CoT should provide information on the DB whereabouts so a joint force of OmniTek and clans can go and take them out. They certainly need to be destroyed. I am beginning to doubt Sol Banking has anything to do with the DB because, like I have said, the DB make OmniTek look good and the clans look bad. This would not be what the Sol Banking would want.

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
And…please…stop crying foul over issues that took place before my grandfather was in diapers. Breogan was bad enough citing something that happened three and a half hundred years ago…you’ve gone into the past three quarters of a millennia in bringing up the appraisal of Rubi-Ka, and frankly you have no basis to claim Omni-Tek was dishonest in their dealings. We gave everyone the opportunity to survey this planet. They refused. We found Notum soon after. Tough luck for them.

Perhaps the only reason you dont want to bring this up is because it ruins your arguement? This happened and it shows that OmniTek is cruel and fascist. Maybe thats why you dont want to bring it up? It shows OmniTek in a bad light? Im sorry, but this is one history you Omnis cant rewrite, as the Soviets did, to make yourselves look better. We do have a basis for the claim that OmniTek made a unfair appraisal. Why is it that OT wanted it so much? How did they find the notum so quickly after they got the sole rights to it?

Originally posted by OneSilkyCat
Honestly, you people sound like Old Earth Palestinians who were still fuming about the Crusades days before Farma-Tek made their move.

May you trip on the Steps of Madness.

Honestly, you sound like old earth Communists, who were baffled at the fact that people had figured out that they were wrong.

And then you proceed to wish me death or torture, when I have done nothing such to yourself. You can see the differences. I try to be respectful and am replied with "you are a madman" when I am not. I am fighting for freedom, they are fighting freedom. While I still hope a Democratic RubiKa that includs omnitek can exist, I am starting to doubt that it can as long as people such as yourself are still around.

[_______FeloniousPunk]

The clanners chant "freedom" and "democracy" like mantras and they've done it so long and so often that they've completely drained those words of meaning. They forget (or perhaps never knew) that those words only mean something within a context, and on Rubi-Ka that context is: a viable social order. Without this working social context, this civil society, freedom means anarchy and democracy means rule of the mob. One has only to look at Athen and Tir as a confirmation of this, or look at the inability of the feeble instruments of clan "governance" to police the areas nominally under their control.

In the harsh light of the reality of the clans and what they have made here on Rubi-Ka, General Bar Tender's words evaporate like so much spilled ale.

[_________OneSilkyCat]

U: Why is it that you cannot even try to make a rebuttal then? Have you given up because you have nothing to go on?

Because it would be petty, childish, and an utter waste of time.
But, it is all too late. Taunts and jeers have now become the weapon of choice.
So be it. Gloves are off.

S: The “fringe groups” are fringe in the public arena to be sure…but how strange it is that with such organization and numbers making up their ranks that the CoT finds itself unable to locate them.
U: the organisatio and numbers that make up the CoT? They are supported by a very few clans.

Misinterpretation. I was referring to the organization and numbers that make up the Dust Brigade. In all probability they operate out of Clan territory. (Burton Shogren Issues Official Omni-Pol Statement)

U: If I have spread a single lie, it was from misinformation. And I have not spread many lies, as I have good information.

Contradiction. Vague. Baseless.

U: If I lied on this, it was from misinformation. The information I got was straight from the ICC.

Lie. The Rubi-Ka Timeline was supplied by the ICC. It contains all the information I used and all the information you distorted. It would be impossible for you to have overlooked it.

U: I never changed alliegance because I never pledged alliegance or loyalty to the CoT. You cant go back on something you never, for lack of a better term, went on.

…compare with this statement from “More reading for clanners ( this time for thoose how don't follow the CoT )”…

U: I guess those ruddy CoT DO have some power now...therefore, I pledge my undying support for the council.

Lie.

(OOC: Yeah, you put it in /ooc, so this might be a little unfair…however, you also stated “Now this is only kind of ooc…” moments before. Can’t have it both ways. :P)

U: No, the Soviets could not read life signs from space, but that is an issue of technology. As one type of technology advances, so does the technology to hinder it.

The analogy is limp. The Clans do not have the research capabilities that Omni-Tek has. The hyper-corporation can outspend you, outclass you, and destroy you. Want historical evidence of how this works? Look at how the war between the Taliban and the United States of America progressed a few years later…

S: Did [the Soviets] face an opponent as unfamiliar with the outlands as they were?
U: Your second question makes no sense, as it is comparing the Soviets to themselves.

Misinterpretation. I am comparing the Soviets and the Afghanis to Omni-Tek and Clan. If you run into the outlands, you are NOT in familiar territory. You do NOT have an advantage.

S: Was there an advantage in military might as gargantuan as the one between Omni-Tek and the Clans?
U: Yes, there was. The Clans are actually moderately well armed and supplied. The Afghans rocks until the Americans gave them stingers.

Misinterpretation. I’m not talking about OTRK and I’m not talking about past civil wars because, obviously, there’s no point in arguing the outcome of a battle that has already occurred. I’m talking about OT as a whole. In the first civil war on this planet the clans were defeated, soundly. In the second civil war, the development of the Corporate Wars saved you at the zero hour. This is history. This is fact.

U: When did you route the North?

June 23, 29222

U: I seem to remember the clans advancing as far south as, what was it, 50km outside Omni-1? Yes my friend, we were in attacking distance of Omni-1 and could have taken it and removed OmniTek from the planet.

Baseless conjecture.

April 21, 29470 - With the clans now less than fifty miles from Omni-1, dug down under a barrage of Omni-Tek fire, the third Rubi-Kan civil war is halted by a ninety-day ceasefire.

Firstly, the Clans couldn’t have taken another step without being cut down. Secondly, laying siege on Omni-1 would force Omni-Prime to dispatch troops in order to protect our interests. You think Omni-Tek soldiers and civilians don’t defend their lands with zeal to match your own? We prioritized guarding Notum mining facilities and as far as the records have shown…didn’t lose one.

U: I have no vague words, or malice for that matter.

Compare with…

U: Then, once they have some money in the bank, OmniTek launches a war against the clans with a pathetic excuse for a reason that is obviously falsified (even the ICC think so)

False and deliberately vague. The third civil war began when Omni-Tek started mining Notum from the installations that belonged to them and Clanners carried out attacks on OT troops, carriers, mines, and processing facilities.

U: And then you proceed to wish me death or torture, when I have done nothing such to yourself. You can see the differences.

Compare with…

S: Well, that will remain a dream.
U: If you think it must, than I will have to fight you.

Contradiction

U: "A dagger in the dark is worth 1000 swords at dawn."

Contradiction

U: May I die honourable fighting the vile plague the is OmniTek.

Contradiction. Compare with…

U: Now as an aside, while some people believe that we cannot have peace until OT is eliminated from the free world of RubiKa, I disagree. (Something for Clanners to read (who care about peace))

Contradiction.

U: I myself would like to cooperate with OmniTek in removing such impediments to peace as the Dust Brigade.

Compare with…

U: clans have the right to do whatever they feel is right to fight OmniTek. (Something for clanners to read ( who care about peace ))

Incendiary. Contradictory. Shows you to be in support of the Dust Brigade. But wait, you say that Dusters aren’t Clanners?

U: The DB were once part of the clans but now they are not. They may call themselves clans, but that doesnt mean they are supported by any kind of majority of us or represent us in any way.

They’re not supported by the majority of Clanners that’s to be sure. However, that would make the Council of Truth non-Clan by your own words.

U: the organisatio and numbers that make up the CoT? They are supported by a very few clans.

So that can’t be right. You then proceed to give a more basic claim as to what makes a Clanner.

U: You Omnis cant get through your brainwashed heads that we have no core belief, other than freedom and liberty from OmniTek.

By your own definition of core Clan values, The Dust Brigade is Clan, therefore have, as you stated, “the right to do whatever they feel is right to fight OmniTek.” That includes murdering civilians.

U: I utter no perversions of truth.

You have already admitted to spreading misinformation numerous times. On top of that, you have constantly waffled in your beliefs and your opinions.

U: The reason the clans are tribal and unorganised is because it is rather hard to organise a completely diverse set of people and ideals. This will be hard, but once we have a united and democratic RubiKa, it can be done.

U: we *must* have a government where the leader is chosen and not installed.(Something for clanners to read ( who care about peace ))

Compare with…

U: " 1. You need to decide who will represent you. "
No we don't. If you need someone that represents us, talk to our clan leaders. Or those who do not have a clan.(Something for clanners to read ( who care about peace ))

U: They are rebels and it is not like you can tell them they aren't following the rules or the law and they need to choose a side to follow. (More reading for clanners ( this time for thoose how don't follow the CoT ))

Glaring contradiction. This is why the Clans will never accept your “Democratic Rubi-Ka”. Any large government requires its members to surrender their rights to an authoritative power. Hell, you don’t even accept your own manifesto.

S: Your statement that Omni-Tek is behind the Dust Brigade is insane, and does not deserve any contemplation.
U: Is the reason you say this merely because you have no logical arguement that can cancel my logical arguement? Is your poor Omni brain too tired to think about it now?

You don’t have a logical argument.
It makes absolutely no sense.
It’s the stupidest conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard.

The Dust Brigade first struck at Omni-Tek on October 7, 29466.

First of all, it resulted in the permanent death of 1466 Omni-Tek Soldiers.

Secondly, This is after OTRK were denied reinforcements from Omni Prime in 29464.

Thirdly, this was during the third civil war, when Omni-Tek needed all the troops it could have.

Fourthly, OTRK, despite being cut off from reinforcements and having taken a severe blow to their forces, decided to attack Clan territory to punish those responsible, escalating the conflict at a time when defense would be the best strategy.

Fifthly, they have presently targeted high-ranking Omni-Tek officials for termination.

Sixthly, this act makes people not want to come to Rubi-Ka to get a job mining Notum and scares the hell out of the populace, which lowers productivity. This is hurting the economy and lowering stocks.

U: As you can see, the DB has done nothing but bring su****ion and doubt to the clans, and that would appear to be a bit more of an OmniTek goal than a clan one.

As you can see, um, no.

S: If the Council of Truth isn’t funding the Dusters, they’re tolerating, even supporting them by not handing Omni-Tek information pertaining to the organization.
U: Did I ever say anything about the CoT knowing nothing about them? No, I said that the CoT does not support them.

Don’t be vague. If they’re keeping information of the Dust Brigade from Omni-Pol and Omni-AF, they’re protecting them, therefore supporting them, therefore just as guilty.

S: And…please…stop crying foul over issues that took place before my grandfather was in diapers.
U: Perhaps the only reason you dont want to bring this up is because it ruins your arguement? This happened and it shows that OmniTek is cruel and fascist. Maybe thats why you dont want to bring it up?

Don’t be vague. Ruins my argument how?. You’re talking about events that happened over seven hundred years ago. Things have changed since then. It’s called progress, Rag. That Omni-Tek does…not…exist…anymore. It’s not current affairs. It’s not recent history. It’s ancient history.

Do you see me whining over the events that occurred on July 24, 29206 or October 12, 29209 or April 28, 29374? No. There’s no reason to debate on it, because the people responsible, their children, and their children’s children aren’t here anymore. They’re six feet under, see?

U: No. One group of clansmen believe they never should have been there and that they were murderous oppressors. Another, different obviously, group believes they were doing there jobs and failed when they could not handle a couple clanners who every OmniTek employee says is no match for OmniTek superior equipment and yet OmniTek is no longer in control of Sabulum.

…er, no. Sllagor made two statements that contradicted each other. You can’t back one of them without discarding the other.
Regardless, Omni-Pol had a job to do.
They went in there to do it, under orders from their superiors and in full accordance with the Tir Accords.
And they got heckled and shot at, in their own territory.
We held out for as long as was required, and then left rather than let things escalate unnecessarily.

U: And please, innocents are civilians who are not hostile. They were fired upon from the information I recieved. I never contradicted myself because I only fit into one of those groups.

Once again, vague. Baseless. Provide your source. Provide evidence. The Clanners who were not locals and made their way to Sabulum during the investigation were not sightseeing. They were looking to stir up trouble. All of your sources, therefore, are in all probability rabble-rousing rags who had time on their hands to spill some blood before heading back to reclaim.

U: If by opportunist, you mean I quit OmniTek when they were enslaving me, I guess I am an opportunist. However, in no other respect am I an opportunist.

…really?

U: We can hide amongst the supporters and then claim to be supporters. (More reading for clanners ( this time for thoose how don't follow the CoT ))

Contradiction.

U: "Cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
and cowards cry tis best to fly,
and fight another day.
But warriors in their marrow know,
that when they die and fall,
it is better to have fought and died,
than never to have fought at all."

Quite the courageous fellow you make yourself out to be…

U: So we pledge alliegiance to CoT.... If they are lax in controlling our actions, that is their problem by your own admission. So now, none of us that think are toast. (More reading for clanners ( this time for thoose how don't follow the CoT ))

…a shame you’re nothing but a liar, a deceiver, a weakling, an opportunist extraordinare.
You dare to uphold virtues like honor, duty, vigilance, and then in the greatest act of betrayal cast them all away to save your skin, hiding behind the ruling body of the clans, not to mention your own brothers and sisters in arms, so they may take the full blame of your transgressions against the ruling government, dragging them all into the fiery hell of war.

I know a Duster’s black heart when I see it. There will be no redemption for the likes of you.

[UwensBack]

S: U: If I have spread a single lie, it was from misinformation. And I have not spread many lies, as I have good information.

Contradiction. Vague. Baseless.

How is this baseless?

U: If I lied on this, it was from misinformation. The information I got was straight from the ICC.

Lie. The Rubi-Ka Timeline was supplied by the ICC. It contains all the information I used and all the information you distorted. It would be impossible for you to have overlooked it.

I didnt distort it. I copy and pasted it directly from the ICC supplied information I got.

U: I never changed alliegance because I never pledged alliegance or loyalty to the CoT. You cant go back on something you never, for lack of a better term, went on.

…compare with this statement from “More reading for clanners ( this time for thoose how don't follow the CoT )”…

U: I guess those ruddy CoT DO have some power now...therefore, I pledge my undying support for the council.

Lie.

(OOC: Yeah, you put it in /ooc, so this might be a little unfair…however, you also stated “Now this is only kind of ooc…” moments before. Can’t have it both ways. :P)[/B]

Bah That was meant to be taken as sarcasm. I have no support for the CoT once and for all. Quote this and correct me if I say contradict it.

S: Was there an advantage in military might as gargantuan as the one between Omni-Tek and the Clans?
U: Yes, there was. The Clans are actually moderately well armed and supplied. The Afghans rocks until the Americans gave them stingers.

Misinterpretation. I’m not talking about OTRK and I’m not talking about past civil wars because, obviously, there’s no point in arguing the outcome of a battle that has already occurred. I’m talking about OT as a whole. In the first civil war on this planet the clans were defeated, soundly. In the second civil war, the development of the Corporate Wars saved you at the zero hour. This is history. This is fact.[/B]

I still dont understand why there is no point in bringing history in to this.

U: When did you route the North?

June 23, 29222[/B]

Show me where this is. I couldnt find it anywhere in the ICC files and if you cant supply the source you got this from, than you are the one distorting. I have not.

U: I seem to remember the clans advancing as far south as, what was it, 50km outside Omni-1? Yes my friend, we were in attacking distance of Omni-1 and could have taken it and removed OmniTek from the planet.

Baseless conjecture.

April 21, 29470 - With the clans now less than fifty miles from Omni-1, dug down under a barrage of Omni-Tek fire, the third Rubi-Kan civil war is halted by a ninety-day ceasefire.

Firstly, the Clans couldn’t have taken another step without being cut down. Secondly, laying siege on Omni-1 would force Omni-Prime to dispatch troops in order to protect our interests. You think Omni-Tek soldiers and civilians don’t defend their lands with zeal to match your own? We prioritized guarding Notum mining facilities and as far as the records have shown…didn’t lose one.[/B]

Clans attacked. Terrorist clans. Not the moderate clans. There are more moderates than terrorists. Yes it would have been a tough fight, Yes OmniPrime would have had to dispatch to retake Omni-1. Note- retake. It is possible that the clans could have taken it, though I doubt we could have held it.

U: I have no vague words, or malice for that matter.

Compare with…

U: Then, once they have some money in the bank, OmniTek launches a war against the clans with a pathetic excuse for a reason that is obviously falsified (even the ICC think so)

False and deliberately vague. The third civil war began when Omni-Tek started mining Notum from the installations that belonged to them and Clanners carried out attacks on OT troops, carriers, mines, and processing facilities.[/B]

How was that vague? How was that false? It was true. A couple radicals attack you so you declare war on the moderates. Shows pure, well thought through Omni reasoning, I guess (sarcasm, just to clarify ).

U: And then you proceed to wish me death or torture, when I have done nothing such to yourself. You can see the differences.

Compare with…

S: Well, that will remain a dream.
U: If you think it must, than I will have to fight you.

Contradiction[/B]

I never wished you any harm, I merely stated that I would have to fight anyone who opposes peace. [/I]NOT[/I] contradiction.

U: "A dagger in the dark is worth 1000 swords at dawn."

Contradiction[/B]

First of all, contradiction to what? Secondly, that was a stupid quote I got out of a Warhammer book.

U: May I die honourablyfighting the vile plague the is OmniTek.

Contradiction. Compare with…

U: Now as an aside, while some people believe that we cannot have peace until OT is eliminated from the free world of RubiKa, I disagree. (Something for Clanners to read (who care about peace))

Contradiction.[/B]

I will die removing OmniTek from power. This does not mean I do not think that they could function perfectly well as a company under a democratic government. I dont think OmniTek must be removed from RK, I just think they must be removed from power. Not a contradiction.


U: I myself would like to cooperate with OmniTek in removing such impediments to peace as the Dust Brigade.

Compare with…

U: clans have the right to do whatever they feel is right to fight OmniTek. (Something for clanners to read ( who care about peace ))

Incendiary. Contradictory. Shows you to be in support of the Dust Brigade. But wait, you say that Dusters aren’t Clanners?[/B]

I think the DB are terrorists. I think they have a right to fight OmniTek. They fought the clans. They bombed children. They killed neutrals. I do not think they are only fighting OmniTek. They are also fighting everyone who does not agree with them. Yes, they have a right to fight OmniTek, but they do not have a right to go kill neutrals or other clanners. This is not hurting OmniTek at all. I personally do not support the Dust Brigade and my arguements never show anything that would suggest I do. I would take away their rights as they have taken away innocents rights. They should be imprisoned at the very least.

U: The DB were once part of the clans but now they are not. They may call themselves clans, but that doesnt mean they are supported by any kind of majority of us or represent us in any way.

They’re not supported by the majority of Clanners that’s to be sure. However, that would make the Council of Truth non-Clan by your own words.

U: the organisatio and numbers that make up the CoT? They are supported by a very few clans.

So that can’t be right. You then proceed to give a more basic claim as to what makes a Clanner.

U: You Omnis cant get through your brainwashed heads that we have no core belief, other than freedom and liberty from OmniTek.

By your own definition of core Clan values, The Dust Brigade is Clan, therefore have, as you stated, “the right to do whatever they feel is right to fight OmniTek.” That includes murdering civilians.[/B]

No. They attacked clanners. Clanners do not attack clanners. They are not clanners. They are ambitious insane meglomaniacal power mongers. I like even OmniTek better than the Dust Brigade.
I never said a lack of support would make someone not clan. Murdering civilians is not hurting OmniTek. Murdering clanners is not hurting OmniTek.

U: I utter no perversions of truth.

You have already admitted to spreading misinformation numerous times. On top of that, you have constantly waffled in your beliefs and your opinions.[/B]

I have admitted to spreading a single lie, or perhaps at the most two. And those were from misinformation, and I thought they were true. I have not constantly waffled in my beliefs and opinions. If you need, I will answer all questions you would like about my opinions/stance/beliefs et cetera ad naseum so that you can stop putting words in my mouth and/or claiming things that never happened.

U: The reason the clans are tribal and unorganised is because it is rather hard to organise a completely diverse set of people and ideals. This will be hard, but once we have a united and democratic RubiKa, it can be done.

U: we *must* have a government where the leader is chosen and not installed.(Something for clanners to read ( who care about peace ))

Compare with…

U: " 1. You need to decide who will represent you. "
No we don't. If you need someone that represents us, talk to our clan leaders. Or those who do not have a clan.(Something for clanners to read ( who care about peace ))

U: They are rebels and it is not like you can tell them they aren't following the rules or the law and they need to choose a side to follow. (More reading for clanners ( this time for thoose how don't follow the CoT ))

Glaring contradiction. This is why the Clans will never accept your “Democratic Rubi-Ka”. Any large government requires its members to surrender their rights to an authoritative power. Hell, you don’t even accept your own manifesto.[/B]
No. No. No. I do accept my manifesto. Once clanners can vote for their leader, they will have to accept the outcome. If they are given that much power, then they will have to accept it. Anyone who cannot is power mad. When the clanners are represented in the government, they will no longer be rebels, now will they? I misinterpreted the "You must decide someone to represent you" as a order to appoint someone to rule us. If we could all vote on a leader, then everyone shold follow. Anyone who votes and doesnt win and rebels because they do not win are, again, powermad. Once the rebels are part of the government, they have accepted the rules and must follow them or be punished. If I ever go back to OmniTek, I will have to follow the laws or accept the consequences.

S: Your statement that Omni-Tek is behind the Dust Brigade is insane, and does not deserve any contemplation.
U: Is the reason you say this merely because you have no logical arguement that can cancel my logical arguement? Is your poor Omni brain too tired to think about it now?

You don’t have a logical argument.
It makes absolutely no sense.
It’s the stupidest conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard.[/B]

Its the stupidest theory youve heard eh? How? It makes far more sense than the clans controlling them. However, the one that makes the most sense, and the one I believe, is that they are radicals and supported by a few clanners. But certainly not the majority.

The Dust Brigade first struck at Omni-Tek on October 7, 29466.

First of all, it resulted in the permanent death of 1466 Omni-Tek Soldiers.

Secondly, This is after OTRK were denied reinforcements from Omni Prime in 29464.

Thirdly, this was during the third civil war, when Omni-Tek needed all the troops it could have.

Fourthly, OTRK, despite being cut off from reinforcements and having taken a severe blow to their forces, decided to attack Clan territory to punish those responsible, escalating the conflict at a time when defense would be the best strategy.

Fifthly, they have presently targeted high-ranking Omni-Tek officials for termination.

Sixthly, this act makes people not want to come to Rubi-Ka to get a job mining Notum and scares the hell out of the populace, which lowers productivity. This is hurting the economy and lowering stocks.

U: As you can see, the DB has done nothing but bring su****ion and doubt to the clans, and that would appear to be a bit more of an OmniTek goal than a clan one.

As you can see, um, no.

Actually, even though your facts are very good and supportive to the the arguement that OmniTek is not backing them, you left out some of my quote. I was saying that defacing the clans was more a OmniTek goal than the a clan one, so um yes, that is true, however, the theories about OmniTek or majority of clan backing supporting them are both disproved now.

S: If the Council of Truth isn’t funding the Dusters, they’re tolerating, even supporting them by not handing Omni-Tek information pertaining to the organization.
U: Did I ever say anything about the CoT knowing nothing about them? No, I said that the CoT does not support them.

Don’t be vague. If they’re keeping information of the Dust Brigade from Omni-Pol and Omni-AF, they’re protecting them, therefore supporting them, therefore just as guilty.[/B]

I am not being ruddy vague. I clearly said that the CoT does not support them. I never said that they know nothing about them. Prove they have information on the Dust Brigade.

S: And…please…stop crying foul over issues that took place before my grandfather was in diapers.
U: Perhaps the only reason you dont want to bring this up is because it ruins your arguement? This happened and it shows that OmniTek is cruel and fascist. Maybe thats why you dont want to bring it up?

Don’t be vague. Ruins my argument how?. You’re talking about events that happened over seven hundred years ago. Things have changed since then. It’s called progress, Rag. That Omni-Tek does…not…exist…anymore. It’s not current affairs. It’s not recent history. It’s ancient history.[/b]

[UwensBack]

It still happened. Perhaps it doesnt ruin your arguemen but it ruins any part of your arguement that claims that OmniTek has done nothing wrong. It is the same OmniTek, not a different one.

Do you see me whining over the events that occurred on July 24, 29206 or October 12, 29209 or April 28, 29374? No. There’s no reason to debate on it, because the people responsible, their children, and their children’s children aren’t here anymore. They’re six feet under, see?

Yes. I feel sorry for the people who died that were innocent. Another reason to eradicate the DB. However, the fact that you dont "whine" about history does not mean we cannot bring up historical information, as you have done. So it seems you have contradicted yourself. You say you dont whine about history, yet you bring up even more ancient history than I have.

U: No. One group of clansmen believe they never should have been there and that they were murderous oppressors. Another, different obviously, group believes they were doing there jobs and failed when they could not handle a couple clanners who every OmniTek employee says is no match for OmniTek superior equipment and yet OmniTek is no longer in control of Sabulum.

…er, no. Sllagor made two statements that contradicted each other. You can’t back one of them without discarding the other.
Regardless, Omni-Pol had a job to do.
They went in there to do it, under orders from their superiors and in full accordance with the Tir Accords.
And they got heckled and shot at, in their own territory.
We held out for as long as was required, and then left rather than let things escalate unnecessarily.[/b]

I can back one without backing the other.

U: And please, innocents are civilians who are not hostile. They were fired upon from the information I recieved. I never contradicted myself because I only fit into one of those groups.

Once again, vague. Baseless. Provide your source. Provide evidence. The Clanners who were not locals and made their way to Sabulum during the investigation were not sightseeing. They were looking to stir up trouble. All of your sources, therefore, are in all probability rabble-rousing rags who had time on their hands to spill some blood before heading back to reclaim.[/b]

My source is clan leaders that were there. I guess this and the VoF is not the most unbiased source, but neither is anything from your Omni papers either. There were clanner locals there that were killed with a few seconds of warning. My sources are as reliable as your Omni papers.

U: If by opportunist, you mean I quit OmniTek when they were enslaving me, I guess I am an opportunist. However, in no other respect am I an opportunist.

…really?

U: We can hide amongst the supporters and then claim to be supporters. (More reading for clanners ( this time for thoose how don't follow the CoT ))

Contradiction.[/b]

I was saying that, in an extreme condition, we could. Not a contradiction.

U: "Cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
and cowards cry tis best to fly,
and fight another day.
But warriors in their marrow know,
that when they die and fall,
it is better to have fought and died,
than never to have fought at all."

Quite the courageous fellow you make yourself out to be…

U: So we pledge alliegiance to CoT.... If they are lax in controlling our actions, that is their problem by your own admission. So now, none of us that think are toast. (More reading for clanners ( this time for thoose how don't follow the CoT ))

…a shame you’re nothing but a liar, a deceiver, a weakling, an opportunist extraordinare.
You dare to uphold virtues like honor, duty, vigilance, and then in the greatest act of betrayal cast them all away to save your skin, hiding behind the ruling body of the clans, not to mention your own brothers and sisters in arms, so they may take the full blame of your transgressions against the ruling government, dragging them all into the fiery hell of war.[/b]

I am not going to even address you trying to use another quote I got out of a book that I liked as an arguement. I merely enjoyed the quote, but do not necessarily agree with it. What is your basis for calling me a liar or a deceiver or a weakling or an opportunist? I uphold my virtues and will never abandon them. You have now spread the lies you seem to hate so much as yourt own words are baseless conjecture. Where have I fled my brothers and sisters in arms? Where have I hidden behind the CoT? Where have I, of all people, encouraged a bloody war? Where have I committed this vaugest of vague "greates act of betrayal"? You know nothing about me. All this is is your lies. Your vagueness. You have seemed to become the very thing you seem to hate. I accept all blame for my actions.

I know a Duster’s black heart when I see it. There will be no redemption for the likes of you.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about do you? You spread lies and hate about me in particular. You have never quoted from posts like "Together" ( http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=10597 ) where I clearly show my distaste for the DB and sensless violence. My guess is that showing anything good that I have written will, of course, not support your rash and baseless conjecture that I am some kind of power hungry mad man. You are now, in all appearances, the propaganda/lie spreading, vague, conjecture making, hateful, spiteful person you seem to think I am. Very well then, I guess I will have to accept the fact that some people will just not accept anyone with an alternate idea to their way of life...

And I guess if you cannot take a ruddy meaningless poem, I will have to remove it from my signature to clear any confusion as to my true feelings.

[UwensBack]

/ooc the reason I had to post twice was because when I tried to post it, it said my post was too long lol.

[UwensBack]

/ooc
silky... where are you mate? I havent been called a madman in a week!

[_________OneSilkyCat]

(Incredibly busy, I'm afraid. I have every intention of ruthlessly denouncing you and all, but there's tons of work to be done. I'll get back to it sometime, don't you worry. :P)

[UwensBack]

/ooc Whew! I was hoping you hadnt quit or something! I know how ruddy work goes! Cant wait for the denunciation!

[____________Sllaagor]

<OOC: Real-Life(tm) is getting in the way of my recreation, as frigging usual. /OOC>

Bah. Once again the rhetoric flies. I'm not even going to respond, the brain-washed Omni-Tekies will never see the light of reason anyway.