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Thread: BUMP for new complete IPR

  1. #81
    Originally posted by Kuroshio
    He didn't dare to be different. Shotgun different for a trader? An X-3 different for just about anyone? ROFL.
    X-3 on a trader? Don't see too many of those running around, do you?

    Actually Loretta, that is almost EXACTLY how I end up with the weapons I use.
    LOL you are trully special. Then why not choose a weapon that uses 2HB, 1HB, FA, and AS? Whatever...

    Nobody in this thread wants to "try" a weapon and switch back to their original if they didn't like it.
    Just how do you know that? Did you poll everyone? I'm one of people who would like to IPR to try different weapons rather than be stuck with the LLTS/Ithaca combo on my lvl 65 NT.

    And yes, we'd still have nerfs with or without IPR. But I'll bet Funcom is willing to let some items be slightly overpowered if everyone isn't using them. The fact that they don't nerf those weapons until everyone is using them (or trying to) suggests this.
    Ok, this is making me curious; could you give me a quick rundown of weapons which have been nerfed thus far because everyone was using one?
    Ananke - Carrah - Loretta

    ZWhen the going got tough, the tough ran away

  2. #82
    Originally posted by Loretta

    Just how do you know that? Did you poll everyone? I'm one of people who would like to IPR to try different weapons rather than be stuck with the LLTS/Ithaca combo on my lvl 65 NT.
    You're serious, aren't you?

    This situation is fixable without any IPR at all, either individual or full.

    "Stuck" indeed.
    Bima, Golly, Whatsamatta, Laslingis and an army of sub-100 alts

  3. #83
    Originally posted by Loretta


    X-3 on a trader? Don't see too many of those running around, do you?
    A trader can wield any 2 skill weapon like the X-3 without batting an eyelash. Most traders know that (I suspect a conspiracy among the rest of yall to keep newbies in shotguns). You said your NT wields a Ithaca right? You wielding an Ithaca is actually more difficult than a trader wielding a Novaflow thanks to Divest/Plunder.
    Originally posted by Loretta
    LOL you are trully special. Then why not choose a weapon that uses 2HB, 1HB, FA, and AS? Whatever...
    Erm, because no weapon would mix melee and ranged skills? Duh. That makes about as much sense as purposely investing in the wrong skill to use a known bugged weapon

    Originally posted by Loretta
    Just how do you know that? Did you poll everyone? I'm one of people who would like to IPR to try different weapons rather than be stuck with the LLTS/Ithaca combo on my lvl 65 NT.
    /
    IPR doesn't let you "try" anything. And most people know this. There is no "trial" period with IPR, returning you to your previous skill. You're not locked at your current status while you "try" out the new wearpon. IPR is the equivalent of taking a car for a test drive that lasts 4 years or until you're tired of the car.

    Originally posted by Loretta
    Ok, this is making me curious; could you give me a quick rundown of weapons which have been nerfed thus far because everyone was using one?
    Borrowed from Yazule's list:
    Freedom arms removed
    one style of nova removed
    LLTS removed
    Crit buffs nerfed
    Decranium Armor drops nerfed
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

  4. #84
    Originally posted by Kuroshio
    A trader can wield any 2 skill weapon like the X-3 without batting an eyelash. Most traders know that (I suspect a conspiracy among the rest of yall to keep newbies in shotguns). You said your NT wields a Ithaca right? You wielding an Ithaca is actually more difficult than a trader wielding a Novaflow thanks to Divest/Plunder.
    I think any class is capable of wielding a 2 skill weapon, not just a trader. I don't use Ithaca to augment my damage, not as primary source of damage. I need something that hits fast, and is ranged, because IMHO having a melee weapon on a class that has roots defeats the purpose of roots.

    Erm, because no weapon would mix melee and ranged skills? Duh. That makes about as much sense as purposely investing in the wrong skill to use a known bugged weapon
    Yup, you proved my point. You looked at a list of viable weapons, then chose the skills to go along with them.

    IPR doesn't let you "try" anything. And most people know this. There is no "trial" period with IPR, returning you to your previous skill. You're not locked at your current status while you "try" out the new wearpon. IPR is the equivalent of taking a car for a test drive that lasts 4 years or until you're tired of the car.
    Sure it does. Given any sort of IPR schema, I can drop the ithaca, and put something different on. Especially with the rumor of an upcoming LLTS nerf.

    Borrowed from Yazule's list:
    Freedom arms removed
    one style of nova removed
    LLTS removed
    Crit buffs nerfed
    Decranium Armor drops nerfed
    Crit buffs/LLTS buffs has nothing to do with weapons being overused. A nova/x-3/beam/whatever do decent average damage. The argument for LLTS/Crit buff removal was one of people critting too much. I remember the days of gamma beamers, and when every other shot was a 3.5k crit. I miss them, but at the same time I understand the reasoning.

    FAs had very low multi-wield requirements. Instead of changing MW, Funcom removed them from drop tables. That was when they said there will be no IPR points given, allowing people to switch to different weapons. Check the replies to the IPR announcement. People were very grateful to be able to reset those skills, and put the IP somewhere else. Defenders are not that far off in terms of damage. Yet they weren't removed from the game, were they? Hint: MW requirements.

    Decranium... Everyone still wears it; all 3 of my chars have a full set, Carrah got her's after the "Nerf". Besides, new armors appeared in the game since. Now my agent wears CDS armor.

    Which nova are you talking about? MK I? Last time I checked it used the same skills required that MK IV requires. Besides, I've never seen it in game. Looking at it's stats, it certainly wasn't overpowered, when compared to say, Manex.

    I think you are confusing cause and effect. Removal of items warrants an IPR, not the other way around.
    Ananke - Carrah - Loretta

    ZWhen the going got tough, the tough ran away

  5. #85
    ^^Bump^^
    - Professional NT Rezzor! -

  6. #86
    when a large group of people have uber item/skill X it is over powering, vs if only a few have it (and worked hard for it).

    pvp is not about solo it is about team. A team of uber d00ds makes people scream nerf (and funcom seems to listen). I team with one uber d00d is not noticed nearly as much or screamed about nearly as much.

    Just my comments on the situation.

    and no matter what, IPR breaks imersion, ruins the game for me, hence I have never used ONE IPR.... I am thinking of making a character and planning his life using every IPR he gets just so I wont have any in the end to tempt me lol.

    *shrug*
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  7. #87
    Originally posted by Loretta


    I think any class is capable of wielding a 2 skill weapon, not just a trader. I don't use Ithaca to augment my damage, not as primary source of damage. I need something that hits fast, and is ranged, because IMHO having a melee weapon on a class that has roots defeats the purpose of roots.
    You said that you don't see many X-3 traders wandering around which I took as offering proof that traders were afraid of experimenting with new weapons. Hence my response: if there is any profession unafraid of picking up a different weapon skill, it's the trader profession. I play one and could wield anything that didn't have a profession requirement on it. I chose bows

    Originally posted by Loretta
    Yup, you proved my point. You looked at a list of viable weapons, then chose the skills to go along with them.
    It does and it doesn't. I decided I wanted to wield 2he weapons. If I found that there was only 1 2he weapon in existance, I'd not choose to wield them. But seeing I had multiple choices, I went with it. I didn't choose a specific weapon and make my character to wield only that specific weapon. Which apparently some people did by your own admitance. Otherwise, why would they invest in Bow + Melee init when no other bow used that combo except the bugged Schuyler Bow?

    Originally posted by Loretta

    Sure it does. Given any sort of IPR schema, I can drop the ithaca, and put something different on. Especially with the rumor of an upcoming LLTS nerf.
    Exactly. You can "drop the ithaca". Then you're not "trying" anything. You're "replacing" it.


    Originally posted by Loretta
    Crit buffs/LLTS buffs has nothing to do with weapons being overused. A nova/x-3/beam/whatever do decent average damage. The argument for LLTS/Crit buff removal was one of people critting too much. I remember the days of gamma beamers, and when every other shot was a 3.5k crit. I miss them, but at the same time I understand the reasoning.
    You honestly believe that nobody used IPR or the complete reset to get the skill necessary to equip a scope with their already established character? I know a number of people that used some of their 15 IPR specifically for that purpose: to create a PvP twink.

    Originally posted by Loretta
    FAs had very low multi-wield requirements. Instead of changing MW, Funcom removed them from drop tables. That was when they said there will be no IPR points given, allowing people to switch to different weapons. Check the replies to the IPR announcement. People were very grateful to be able to reset those skills, and put the IP somewhere else. Defenders are not that far off in terms of damage. Yet they weren't removed from the game, were they? Hint: MW requirements.

    Decranium... Everyone still wears it; all 3 of my chars have a full set, Carrah got her's after the "Nerf". Besides, new armors appeared in the game since. Now my agent wears CDS armor.
    Everyone may still were it. Does that change the fact that its drop rate got nerfed because everyone was getting it? And you'll note that CDS armor is much harder to get than Decraniums. You don't think they did that because they like making us jump through hoops to get it do you?

    IPR removes the safeguard of people lacking the skill to use an item or ability unless they have invested in that ability. The key word being "invested". Investments payout over time. IPR payouts instantly. That's why we'll never see an item that requires a player to invest IP at every level to the maximum in order to be able to use that item. That's part of the reason why we're seeing level limits on items as well (buffs being half of the equation). They cannot control the usage of items without resorting to game mechanics to do so. Without IPR, the issue of buffs remain but its less important because buffs are temporary and promote teamwork.
    Originally posted by Loretta
    Which nova are you talking about? MK I? Last time I checked it used the same skills required that MK IV requires. Besides, I've never seen it in game. Looking at it's stats, it certainly wasn't overpowered, when compared to say, Manex.
    Ask Yazule. I did say I borrowed from his list

    And comparing yesterday's items to today's items isn't valid. The nerf doesn't happen today. They happened yesterday.
    Originally posted by Loretta

    I think you are confusing cause and effect. Removal of items warrants an IPR, not the other way around.
    And IPR also promotes the removal of items. It increases the chances of the item seeing more usage than intended.
    Last edited by Kuroshio; Jan 15th, 2003 at 00:13:23.
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

  8. #88
    Originally posted by Yazule
    when a large group of people have uber item/skill X it is over powering, vs if only a few have it (and worked hard for it).

    pvp is not about solo it is about team. A team of uber d00ds makes people scream nerf (and funcom seems to listen). I team with one uber d00d is not noticed nearly as much or screamed about nearly as much.

    Just my comments on the situation.

    and no matter what, IPR breaks imersion, ruins the game for me, hence I have never used ONE IPR.... I am thinking of making a character and planning his life using every IPR he gets just so I wont have any in the end to tempt me lol.

    *shrug*
    Hmm, I would say that if everyone is uber, then everyone is average

    that's just my opinion

    I like your argument much more than that of Kuroshio; you are not generalizing. I guess I just like the players to have more options than following a path, and then not being able to do something because they chose weapon X, then weapon Y came along. I guess this affects some classes more than others. Kudos to you for playing wisely.
    Ananke - Carrah - Loretta

    ZWhen the going got tough, the tough ran away

  9. #89
    Originally posted by Kuroshio
    You said that you don't see many X-3 traders wandering around which I took as offering proof that traders were afraid of experimenting with new weapons. Hence my response: if there is any profession unafraid of picking up a different weapon skill, it's the trader profession. I play one and could wield anything that didn't have a profession requirement on it. I chose bows
    My point was that those who tried, dropped it later on.


    It does and it doesn't. I decided I wanted to wield 2he weapons. If I found that there was only 1 2he weapon in existance, I'd not choose to wield them. But seeing I had multiple choices, I went with it. I didn't choose a specific weapon and make my character to wield only that specific weapon. Which apparently some people did by your own admitance. Otherwise, why would they invest in Bow + Melee init when no other bow used that combo except the bugged Schuyler Bow?
    I dunno? Ask them? Maybe they thought that schuyler would and wouldn't use physical init one day?

    Exactly. You can "drop the ithaca". Then you're not "trying" anything. You're "replacing" it.
    I'm much less likely to drop the ithaca prior to anything being done about LLTS. And I won't. But if the game mechanics change and something else becomes more viable, why shouldn't I be able to retrain to use it?


    You honestly believe that nobody used IPR or the complete reset to get the skill necessary to equip a scope with their already established character? I know a number of people that used some of their 15 IPR specifically for that purpose: to create a PvP twink.
    Twinks are low level characters which are "twinked". At level 190+ (which is where you have 15+ IPR points) you don't create twinks. You can pretty much self equip anything that's relevant to your character.


    Everyone may still were it. Does that change the fact that its drop rate got nerfed because everyone was getting it? And you'll note that CDS armor is much harder to get than Decraniums. You don't think they did that because they like making us jump through hoops to get it do you?
    Actually it's much easier; it's not a no-drop item, and only 2 classes can wear it.

    IPR removes the safeguard of people lacking the skill to use an item or ability unless they have invested in that ability. The key word being "invested".(snip)
    No, it gives them more options to play with.

    Ask Yazule. I did say I borrowed from his list
    You shouldn't quote something you don't understand.

    And comparing yesterday's items to today's items isn't valid. The nerf doesn't happen today. They happened yesterday.
    Why did you post that quote in the first place then?


    And IPR also promotes the removal of items. It increases the chances of the item seeing more usage than intended.
    hehe, ok, you know, I'm done with this thread. I've asked you for a list of items which were removed because of "overuse". The list you gave me was, well, not applicable. What that list provide me with, was more arguments for an IPR. This back and forth is not really helping this thread any. Lets just say we agreed to disagree? You can have the "last" word.
    Ananke - Carrah - Loretta

    ZWhen the going got tough, the tough ran away

  10. #90
    Originally posted by Loretta
    But if the game mechanics change and something else becomes more viable, why shouldn't I be able to retrain to use it?
    You can, just like in real life, and it doesn't need IPR. It just takes time and more experience ("training"), which at level 65 you have plenty of room to do. Can't max the new weapons skill even by level 200? Well, that's a perfectly reasonable simulation of life.

    The only people that "it just takes time and more experience" doesn't apply to are people in the very late stages of their career. Kind of hard to retrain AARP members too though. (No offense against our elders; I surely respect them.) They want to try something different that they can't accomplish with whatever IP they can still earn? Reroll.
    Bima, Golly, Whatsamatta, Laslingis and an army of sub-100 alts

  11. #91
    Originally posted by Loretta


    My point was that those who tried, dropped it later on.
    And if they want to keep trying more and more weapons, it should get harder and harder to do so. And the upper echelon of the weapons should not be availible to them. Why? Because they've never stuck with a weapon or skill. Why should someone be able to use the best items in the game? Because they want to? No, because they earned the right to do so through hard work within that skill set.

    Originally posted by Loretta
    I dunno? Ask them? Maybe they thought that schuyler would and wouldn't use physical init one day?
    You don't know? More like you can't think of any reason someone would purposely invest in the wrong skill in order to wield a bugged item and not have to admit they screwed themselves.


    Originally posted by Loretta
    I'm much less likely to drop the ithaca prior to anything being done about LLTS. And I won't. But if the game mechanics change and something else becomes more viable, why shouldn't I be able to retrain to use it?
    You chose the ithaca + llts. You've benefited from the ithaca + llts. If you want to keep benefitting from other weapons and item combos, that's you're choice. But you should pay a price to continue to do so. When you run out of 'currency' to pay that price...oh well, tough luck. And when you can't compete with someone that has focused in a particular area their character's entire lifetime...oh well, tough luck. Its only fair to them that they should be better than you.

    Originally posted by Loretta
    Twinks are low level characters which are "twinked". At level 190+ (which is where you have 15+ IPR points) you don't create twinks. You can pretty much self equip anything that's relevant to your character.
    At level 190+ you're also in an IP glut. Plenty of leftover IP to allow picking up a new weapon or 2. Will you be the best at it? Prolly not. But then again, that's fitting as well. I do have some sympathy for the level 200s though. And they should be able to trade xp and cash for single IP points. Since they can't progress past level 200.

    Originally posted by Loretta
    Actually it's much easier; it's not a no-drop item, and only 2 classes can wear it.
    CDS? Easier to get than Decraniums? We are talking about Cyborg Death Squad armor right? Sorry, I'm not a n00b. And even if you do view CDS as easier to aquire than Decraniums, are you taking in account the nerf done to Decraniums' drop rate. The nerf done because it was flooding the market?

    Originally posted by Loretta
    (unsnip)
    IPR removes the safeguard of people lacking the skill to use an item or ability unless they have invested in that ability. The key word being "invested". Investments payout over time. IPR payouts instantly. That's why we'll never see an item that requires a player to invest IP at every level to the maximum in order to be able to use that item. That's part of the reason why we're seeing level limits on items as well (buffs being half of the equation). They cannot control the usage of items without resorting to game mechanics to do so. Without IPR, the issue of buffs remain but its less important because buffs are temporary and promote teamwork.
    No, it gives them more options to play with.
    I restored the full quote because I think people should see what you were responding to. It doesn't give Funcom more options to play with. It cuts down Funcom's options to
    1. Nerf
    2. Rare drops
    3. Extremely difficult mobs to loot for the item
    4. Increasing mob difficulty to compensate for the imbalance caused.


    Originally posted by Loretta

    You shouldn't quote something you don't understand.

    Why did you post that quote in the first place then?
    I understand you might be stuck on a reply and therefore are dodging.

    Originally posted by Loretta
    hehe, ok, you know, I'm done with this thread. I've asked you for a list of items which were removed because of "overuse". The list you gave me was, well, not applicable. What that list provide me with, was more arguments for an IPR. This back and forth is not really helping this thread any. Lets just say we agreed to disagree? You can have the "last" word.
    The "list" provided to you isn't applicable because you don't want it to be. And no it's not helping this thread at all. Too much truth is being told and that's just can't happen, now can it? Well sorry to disappoint but on this issue, this thread will not be full of mindless "Bump" posts. You want it? You defend it in the open, with reason and logic. And we'll let the developer that reads it decide which argument is better.
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

  12. #92

    Ok, it continues...

    Originally posted by Kuroshio
    And if they want to keep trying more and more weapons, it should get harder and harder to do so. And the upper echelon of the weapons should not be availible to them. Why? Because they've never stuck with a weapon or skill. Why should someone be able to use the best items in the game? Because they want to? No, because they earned the right to do so through hard work within that skill set.
    Because at the present moment Manex is a pretty good weapon. It has nothing to do with skill, but with time spent in the game, and available IPR points. Those who waited, and did their IPR last, are ahead of the game.


    You don't know? More like you can't think of any reason someone would purposely invest in the wrong skill in order to wield a bugged item and not have to admit they screwed themselves.
    Or perhaps they wanted to use a semi-decent single-skill weapon, and didn't want to wait until Funcom fixes it? (It took 4 monts for the fix btw)

    You chose the ithaca + llts. You've benefited from the ithaca + llts. If you want to keep benefitting from other weapons and item combos, that's you're choice. But you should pay a price to continue to do so. When you run out of 'currency' to pay that price...oh well, tough luck. And when you can't compete with someone that has focused in a particular area their character's entire lifetime...oh well, tough luck. Its only fair to them that they should be better than you.
    Yes, but only if the game remains stable. Additions and fixes change the playing field. See schuyler example above. Would you agree that LLTS nerf will warrant IPR? Or did you plan your character from the beginning not to use LLTS?

    CDS? Easier to get than Decraniums? We are talking about Cyborg Death Squad armor right? Sorry, I'm not a n00b. And even if you do view CDS as easier to aquire than Decraniums, are you taking in account the nerf done to Decraniums' drop rate. The nerf done because it was flooding the market?


    Got a full set of ql 190+ in 2 days. And I got decent experience while doing this. And so did my friends. Try to drag someone to SD for anything else but MK armor, you won't find too many willing. Decranum is NO DROP. The nerf was not done because it was flooding the market. It was done because in Funcom's eyes it was too easy to get. Finally, I can always buy pieces of CDS on the exchange at 1-5 mil/piece. Go to SD, try to get a full set. Some people spend weeks there. Teams compete over it. Friends fight with friends, it's ugly.

    I don't care if you are a noob or not, stating that you are not one, however, doesn't automatically mean you are not one.


    I restored the full quote because I think people should see what you were responding to. It doesn't give Funcom more options to play with. It cuts down Funcom's options to
    I think if anyone is actually following this tread, they know what we are talking about. In fact I give anyone huge credit for following this thread so far.

    I understand you might be stuck on a reply and therefore are dodging.
    No, I'm just tired of arguing the same point with you. You won't be convinced, and neither will I. Don't you see this as pointless anymore?

    The "list" provided to you isn't applicable because you don't want it to be. And no it's not helping this thread at all. Too much truth is being told and that's just can't happen, now can it? Well sorry to disappoint but on this issue, this thread will not be full of mindless "Bump" posts. You want it? You defend it in the open, with reason and logic. And we'll let the developer that reads it decide which argument is better.
    What truth? That list was invalid, you gave me no other arguments. I don't see one item thus far that's been nerfed because everyone used it. I don't want to argue for argument's sake. Just drop it, or give me something to argue about.

    Personal attacks don't help your case.

    Up the voltage.
    Ananke - Carrah - Loretta

    ZWhen the going got tough, the tough ran away

  13. #93

    Re: BUMP for new complete IPR

    Originally posted by Ghandalf
    After the last patches changes, when it comes to viable weapon choice, armor, newly needed tradeskills, skills you no longer need (critnerf), I find it strange that this hasn't already been done, but I would atlesat suggest, or rather demand we all get a new complete chance to IPR.
    You're not in position to demand anything, and a full IPR is totally out of the question according to funcom. However, stated by a Funcom employee, the option of earning IPR points after titlecaps (@ level 200 most likely) might be a future option.

    bump i guess

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  14. #94

    Re: Ok, it continues...

    Originally posted by Loretta


    Because at the present moment Manex is a pretty good weapon. It has nothing to do with skill, but with time spent in the game, and available IPR points. Those who waited, and did their IPR last, are ahead of the game.
    Or those that originally invested in SMG/Burst are ahead. I know I saw a post from a trader who specifically wen SMG/Burst to wield the MPS/MCS because he liked making his own weapons. Now if the Manex is that much better (and it's not) he got rewarded for it. Why should you get a reward?

    And who mentioned the Manex anyways? Wasn't me...Is that the weapon you want to "try"?


    Originally posted by Loretta
    Or perhaps they wanted to use a semi-decent single-skill weapon, and didn't want to wait until Funcom fixes it? (It took 4 monts for the fix btw)
    Nobody but themselves forced them to choose the Schuyler. Personally I choose not to dig the game deeper into balance issues by letting IPR continue to exist over people that knew they were doing the wrong thing and did it anyways.


    Originally posted by Loretta
    Yes, but only if the game remains stable. Additions and fixes change the playing field. See schuyler example above. Would you agree that LLTS nerf will warrant IPR? Or did you plan your character from the beginning not to use LLTS?
    How'd you guess? Tried it once and the green color nearly made me sick.

    Originally posted by Loretta
    Got a full set of ql 190+ in 2 days. And I got decent experience while doing this. And so did my friends. Try to drag someone to SD for anything else but MK armor, you won't find too many willing. Decranum is NO DROP. The nerf was not done because it was flooding the market. It was done because in Funcom's eyes it was too easy to get. Finally, I can always buy pieces of CDS on the exchange at 1-5 mil/piece. Go to SD, try to get a full set. Some people spend weeks there. Teams compete over it. Friends fight with friends, it's ugly.

    I don't care if you are a noob or not, stating that you are not one, however, doesn't automatically mean you are not one.
    I'll give you this point. SD is lower priority for people now and the lack of teammates wanting to go there does make it more difficult to collect a full set.


    Originally posted by Loretta
    I think if anyone is actually following this tread, they know what we are talking about. In fact I give anyone huge credit for following this thread so far.

    No, I'm just tired of arguing the same point with you. You won't be convinced, and neither will I. Don't you see this as pointless anymore?
    It'll become pointless when either Funcom says (again) no more complete resets. Or people stop posting every patch asking for one because there's a new item in the patch and they've blown all their reset points trying to follow every trend. I kinda hope Funcom is perverse enough to be doing that on purpose to make people blow them. Then put in some lengthy quest in order to earn more. I suggested a machine personally but that would be fun as well.


    Originally posted by Loretta
    What truth? That list was invalid, you gave me no other arguments. I don't see one item thus far that's been nerfed because everyone used it. I don't want to argue for argument's sake. Just drop it, or give me something to argue about.

    Personal attacks don't help your case.

    Up the voltage.
    A couple people using an item or ability that's overpowered doesn't lead to a nerf. A couple people don't tip the balance scales. Its when something is done en masse is when the devs start looking for where they stashed the nerf bat.
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

  15. #95

    Re: Re: Ok, it continues...

    Originally posted by Kuroshio
    Or those that originally invested in SMG/Burst are ahead. I know I saw a post from a trader who specifically wen SMG/Burst to wield the MPS/MCS because he liked making his own weapons. Now if the Manex is that much better (and it's not) he got rewarded for it. Why should you get a reward?

    And who mentioned the Manex anyways? Wasn't me...Is that the weapon you want to "try"?
    Yes, and that trader was clairvoyant enough to foresee that Manex would be the next flavor of the day. Manex IS that much better actually. If you'd like to see why, send me a tell and I will show you why it's superior. You chose an inferior weapon, that's your call

    Nobody but themselves forced them to choose the Schuyler. Personally I choose not to dig the game deeper into balance issues by letting IPR continue to exist over people that knew they were doing the wrong thing and did it anyways.
    Schuyler is just an example. I would hope that you'd be intelligent enough to understand that. If you want more examples, crossbows could be another one. Shotguns are the 3rd one. CHS is the fourth one. When the NT crystal comes out, it will be the 5th one. If funcom listens to MPs and makes creation weapons viable it will be the 6th one.

    It'll become pointless when either Funcom says (again) no more complete resets. Or people stop posting every patch asking for one because there's a new item in the patch and they've blown all their reset points trying to follow every trend. I kinda hope Funcom is perverse enough to be doing that on purpose to make people blow them. Then put in some lengthy quest in order to earn more. I suggested a machine personally but that would be fun as well.
    Yes, they said it before last IPR too, then conceeded that there were too many changes made to the game, and they would give one. I wonder how many changes to the game did it take to bring the first one along, and how many will it take before the next one comes about?

    If the change to LLTS actually comes about, and funcom, as promised will give several IPR points back, it won't be fair to those who used LLTS. Because those points will be free to those who haven't used LLTS to begin with. And while those points are used by those with LLTS to fix themselves, they will be free to those who haven't to use for other things. Of course you won't need those points. Because the green color made you sick. Just like the above quote of yours sickened me. Read it again yourself, perhaps you will understand why.

    A couple people using an item or ability that's overpowered doesn't lead to a nerf. A couple people don't tip the balance scales. Its when something is done en masse is when the devs start looking for where they stashed the nerf bat.
    I'm still waiting for you to give an example of when did funcom nerf something because everyone was using it.
    Ananke - Carrah - Loretta

    ZWhen the going got tough, the tough ran away

  16. #96
    I'm totally against another total ipr . you get enough ipr points for your level to accomadtae for this.
    I quested all the way to Penumbra, and I didn't even get a lousy t-shirt.

  17. #97

    Re: Re: Re: Ok, it continues...

    Originally posted by Loretta
    I'm still waiting for you to give an example of when did funcom nerf something because everyone was using it.
    All the Crit items? FA? Drop rate of Decranum?

    all from this thread

    hugs

    lilnymph
    Lilnymph - Clan Fixer - RK1
    lilnymph wrote on November 21st, 2003 08:01:01:
    You may take our postcount threads, but you will never take our FREEDOM!!!!!
    Originally posted by Cz
    The post count is mine! All mine! Mwahahahah!

    40.476190476190474% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
    Style over Substance

  18. #98

    but these are

    database problems.

    the decranum armor back in its day blew every other armor in the game out of the water.

    freedom arms due to their low multi req and good damage rocked hard.

    shotguns (the main crit reliant weapon) kicked assault rifles into the next week.

    what happened was this:

    people checked out the database and found that 70+% of it was utter junk.

    they gravitated to "teh win" equipment ... which is normal in a rpg. you will always get a certain amount of min maxing and some people who do not care and make a character how they want.

    back to the shotgun example... when funcom found out that shotguns were to powerfull due to the abundance of critical hits they could either have started an arms spiral by boosting the other weapons - can you say mudflation? asherons call did this and it backfired imo.
    or nerf what made shotguns powerfull (easy to equip and crits).

    that is what they did.

    i do not buy the argument that people flock to these weapons because of iprs.

    the only way to prevent this trend is to add more viable weapons to the game. at least now it is possible to use about any weapon class and be sorta viable in pvm. this is NOT how it was at launch and we still have a long way to go for a truly diverse game.
    sept 03 - the day ao was keeled by sl.

    gone now. byebye.

  19. #99

    Re: Re: Re: Ok, it continues...

    Originally posted by Loretta


    Yes, and that trader was clairvoyant enough to foresee that Manex would be the next flavor of the day. Manex IS that much better actually. If you'd like to see why, send me a tell and I will show you why it's superior. You chose an inferior weapon, that's your call
    It's not about being clairyvoyant. It's about choosing a skillset, sticking with it and when a nicer item comes along getting rewarded by already having the skills for it. By not having to level to get it.

    As for your challenge concerning the Manex, mind if I have a GA4 smurf stand in. That way he can show you why the Manex is inferior


    Originally posted by Loretta
    Schuyler is just an example. I would hope that you'd be intelligent enough to understand that. If you want more examples, crossbows could be another one. Shotguns are the 3rd one. CHS is the fourth one. When the NT crystal comes out, it will be the 5th one. If funcom listens to MPs and makes creation weapons viable it will be the 6th one.
    Can't remember if it was a single crossbow or all of them that had the rifle/bow reversed. I do remember MAs had picked them up mostly for the alpha capacity in PvP, often switching to a real weapon (or fists) immediately after. So on that one: tough luck. They willingly chose immediate power over future benefit. It was their choice

    What about shotguns? Shotguns have remained untouched. The crit scope nerf? Well people invested IP in an item to increase the number of crits they did. Those items didn't stop working did they?

    CHS, you lost me.

    The possible NT crystal that is supposed to up their nuke damage in exchange for not being able to wield a weapon right? Erm...any NT that relies completely on that nuke power I'll enjoy eating for breakfast, even though the pins get stuck in my teeth. I'm a trader after all


    Originally posted by Loretta
    Yes, they said it before last IPR too, then conceeded that there were too many changes made to the game, and they would give one. I wonder how many changes to the game did it take to bring the first one along, and how many will it take before the next one comes about?
    Here you go.
    Originally posted:
    15 December, 2001
    Gaute Godager - Game Director, Anarchy Online


    There were many people with the conviction that overequipping is part of the game, and should not be punished. Some people said overequipping is the only way to solo / survive. Others think (maybe the most popular vote?) that extreme overequipping should be punished, and some (a few) think all overequipping should be reacted to at once - hard.

    Having pondered this for quite some time, what I think I'd like to do is change the overequipping rules only when they come as a "package" of other stuff that can make life easier.

    These are the solutions I would like to implement: (Disclaimer! Please understand that these are design suggestions, not promises, as to the way they should be implemented. View them as the general "gist" of things.)

    Before I go on with the concrete solutions, I would like to say that since my preference is to group the changes - to make it a package, it will take some time before all the changes are implemented. It can take a few months because they might be quite big. We will keep you posted on their progress though.

    At the time we implement any changes in the overequipping rules, include the following changes to the game:
    ...
    • A ONCE-OFF VOLUNTARY "IP- reset". I have to make sure right now the limitations of it! (An IP reset means that you keep your level and experience points, get your skills reset, and IP returned.
    • This will happen only once in the history of the game. (As long as I am Game Director at least )
    1 change was the primary cause. Overequipping. IP lost to release bugs prolly assisted FAR more than any other balance changes. Developers know that nerfs are inevitable. Only players want to pretend they're not.

    Originally posted by Loretta
    If the change to LLTS actually comes about, and funcom, as promised will give several IPR points back, it won't be fair to those who used LLTS. Because those points will be free to those who haven't used LLTS to begin with. And while those points are used by those with LLTS to fix themselves, they will be free to those who haven't to use for other things. Of course you won't need those points. Because the green color made you sick. Just like the above quote of yours sickened me. Read it again yourself, perhaps you will understand why.
    And now you see why giving IPR away is a bad thing. Just be glad I'm ncie enough not to take advantage of it. Really I'm not that nice, but I won't go through the bother of stripping down and getting rebuffed just to squeeze an extra couple points of damage out of a weapon. Or squeezing and extra couple points of skill from min/maxing.

    Originally posted by Loretta
    I'm still waiting for you to give an example of when did funcom nerf something because everyone was using it.
    Erm, lilnymph pointed those out again for you.
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

  20. #100

    Re: but these are

    Originally posted by Blackwing
    database problems.

    the decranum armor back in its day blew every other armor in the game out of the water.

    freedom arms due to their low multi req and good damage rocked hard.

    shotguns (the main crit reliant weapon) kicked assault rifles into the next week.

    what happened was this:

    people checked out the database and found that 70+% of it was utter junk.

    they gravitated to "teh win" equipment ... which is normal in a rpg. you will always get a certain amount of min maxing and some people who do not care and make a character how they want.

    back to the shotgun example... when funcom found out that shotguns were to powerfull due to the abundance of critical hits they could either have started an arms spiral by boosting the other weapons - can you say mudflation? asherons call did this and it backfired imo.
    or nerf what made shotguns powerfull (easy to equip and crits).

    that is what they did.

    i do not buy the argument that people flock to these weapons because of iprs.
    They continue to do it because of IPRs. There's no price for switching. Not until they run out of reset points and another shiny new toy appears in the database. Then the price is whining on the forums that they need a reset.

    Originally posted by Blackwing
    the only way to prevent this trend is to add more viable weapons to the game. at least now it is possible to use about any weapon class and be sorta viable in pvm. this is NOT how it was at launch and we still have a long way to go for a truly diverse game.
    You can't continue to add items to the game if you can't have some guarantees that everyone will use them. Funcom can't add anything that trully is superior because everyone will use it and distort the game balance. A superior item isn't meant to be used by everyone. And only the most drastic of measures, like the ones being used on GA and Nullity, barely work. I say "barely" because they only slowed down people aquiring them (while pissing off everyone that doesn't have one yet). But obviously the distribution is getting fairly wide on at least GA. Wanna bet on whether that will get nerfed eventually?
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

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