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Thread: MP LOVE THREAD (Dont Let this Die Out)

  1. #61

    Post agree that we need fix

    nice ideas here.

    bump

  2. #62

    my 2 cents on pet calms

    I think should be impossilbe to directly calm/root a pet. The rooting/calm should be based onto whether you have rooted/slowed (whatever) the MP. So if MP is rooted his pets are rooted. I think this makes sense especially since the pets are our mental manifestations.

    Just a thought.
    215 MP - Proud member of Band of Brothers

  3. #63
    North,

    Sad to see you go. I think you've made this a good discussion on the whole (one or two early morning posts excepted ).

    I too think that the NTs need some loving, they've only had the high level Nukes and the NP buff recently. The Engis got a big patch in 14.7 with a whole range of new defensive stuff and (at least in the database) the Kami bot which will get fixed eventually. As far as I know, the NT love patch is still kinda sketched in for 14.8 (cyberdeck etc). The Crats just got good new AMS buffs and Anti-Crowd control in the pet/player and AoE root/snare breakers. The big "love" patches for the MPs were 13.0: Creation Weapons (when crats got motivational speeches) and 13.4:Mez pets which have never worked as intended (according to FC) and for the last 5 months have been actively killing MPs through phantom damage.

    I think it's important that patches go to those who need love because of weakness or imbalance or to fix things that are just plain broken - rather than going to those who just happen not to have had any major new stuff recently. Only after that should some professions like the trader who has remained dull but strong for a very long time should get something new every once in a while - just because they haven't had much.

    With NTs and MPs it's clear that the NTs need more loving on the PvM side. MPs in PvM are just fine on the whole up to around level 150 if pet pathing were to be fixed - because the heal pet is really a major factor in PvM. NTs struggle a lot more in PvM. In PvP it's the MP that is struggling a great deal and the NT is pretty useful all round - especially since Notum Wars and the advent of mass PvP battles being the norm.

    Either way, it looks like 14.7.8 may bring a new line of pets (4 in total) for the MP. We're all waiting with bated breath to see whether it will address the very real issues that the MPs have in particular in PvP. With any luck it may well do just that. For the NTs, I can tell you that I just voted the NT question about 14.8 being the NT patch highly and I truly hope that it is 14.8 for you guys. You need it.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  4. #64
    Hmm....

    That was a very motivated speech by you X. I mean the NT's dont have their nanos bugged, or their defenses bugged.

    Mps have, what?

    Bugged pets, awful defence, Terrible weapons.

    So what do we have? bar our buffs?

    Are we that Kind and considerate that we would want to put NT's before Mp's.

    Instead of looking after others interest for a change, we should look after ourselves.

    We have been waiting in the que long enough, and its about time we got the goods?

    Mps need love badly, more than NTs, because their main source of damage isnt broken like ours is, their defences arnt as bad as ours are, and they also have the ability to hold weapons at a cheaper skill cost than what we have.

    So Mps need Love more than NTs.

    And please dont take this as a flamfull rant at NT's becuse I also play an Alt NT and I am aware of the current problems, but I think that Mp's need it more, right now.....
    Last edited by Tikon RIP 02-04; Jan 13th, 2003 at 16:43:34.
    Tikon - Forever an MP. Rest in peace my dear old friend.


    Remember, Life is a Journey, Not a Destination, So enjoy the ride..

  5. #65
    Tikon,

    Lol. The MP in PvM falls into a category somewhat like the trader. If you put pet pathing aside the MP is a strong PvM player with good team contribution on many fronts. There's a large number of things in the MP palette that are broken/useless but this is true of many professions. The best love that the PvM MP could get would be pet pathing fixed - pure and simple. We've already started to see top end nanos creep into the game that give us goals beyond the Caco and Animas, so lack of motivation at higher levels is already improving.

    The NT struggles somewhat on the PvM side. In missions a lot of the NT benefits disappear: range advantage, long casting nukes, AoE nukes, AoE debuffs and the taunt on many of their nukes all are less useful in missions. These exact same advantages are what make them so powerful on the PvP battlefield but it's hard for NTs to make them really count in PvM often. In addition, the high nanoresist that all casters see on high level mobs causes the NTs more problems than any other - though it seems that the NR on these mobs has been considerably reduced in 14.7.8 too - so that will help them out. Also, the introduction of pet casting mobs has increased the importance of crowd control in missions, so the NTs have gained something there too. The NT always used to struggle on the tradeskill side too but with the inclusion of NP buffs for them recently that side is much better balanced these days.

    Like I said, I think that professions should be prioritised in terms of balance. Those that are struggling in one area need to be improved in that area. All pet professions struggle with pet pathing and it's right that pathing has a high priority. NTs struggle more to make a difference in PvM. MPs struggle more in PvP right now.

    Sometimes fixes and/or improvements aren't as simple to see as looking in the database. Mission design, mob stats and behaviour, trends in popular PvP - all of these things can shift the balance. It's only the trend to mass PvP and tower battles that has really enabled the NT to shine so strongly in PvP. For MPs, if pet pathing gets a decent solution - we as a profession will become very much stronger as a result.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  6. #66
    Okay, were Mp's right?

    We are supposed to cast being from our anger? Well too right the pet should be kick ass, and we should be a strong class. I have played Mp's ever since I started this game, and every single one has made me stand there in aww, and just gawp. Why?, because the Mp is unique, compared to any other class. We struggle we strife, but we still go on.

    I understand that some classes lack in some areas, but are tradeskillz really an issue when it comes to PVP or PVM? It is basically the amount of damage you can output and the amount of damage you can withstand... thats what it comes down to regardless of PVM or PVP.
    Without my pets, I would be dead.
    If pet pathing were fixed, then we would see crats Engis and Mp's rise to the top classes, well maybe not the top but very close.

    I understand that classes need to be balanced, but if everyone is the same or has equal oppurtunities and advantages, would the game still be the same?

    I mean

    Duke hits Carl for 100 points of damage
    Carl hits duke for 100 points of damage
    Duke gets healed by salvinous for 100 points
    Carl gets healed by salvinous for 100 points

    See where im going, kinda boring fight aint it?

    If everyone had a good chance in a battle, then would the leading class in the battle find their character fun to play anymore, I mean some people get satisfaction for Owning hundreds.....

    Just like the world we live in, balance is impossible. But advantages in certain areas will help.

    I chose an Mp to cast pets, because I thnk the Mp is unique, and I did not want to be the same as everyone else.

    If NT's lack in NP skill, then why give them NP skill?
    I mean the NP skill buff was unique to the Mp?
    But alas, again another one of our helpfull buffs balanced.

    So wheres our nutility sphere or GA?

    Im not going to carry on any more, because my fingers are starting to hurt.

    But I just wanted to state my bit. I love the Mp and always will, because it has always been different in comparison to other classes.

    I have played the MP for a long time, and have not seen anything that will make waves for us.

    Just like the Fixers got GA and the Fixer Grid
    Docs can warp
    NTs can warp and nutility

    Mp's Fly and is a polite buff machine (some times)
    Maybe we should turn our bodily orophises into coin slots, so people can just put theyre money in and get the required buff.

    Sorry for the ranting and stuff, but I feel very strongly indeed on this matter.

    Got to go now RSI is kicking in, Ouch!
    Tikon - Forever an MP. Rest in peace my dear old friend.


    Remember, Life is a Journey, Not a Destination, So enjoy the ride..

  7. #67
    If pet pathing were fixed, then we would see crats Engis and Mp's rise to the top classes, well maybe not the top but very close.
    Yup Tikon, this was essentially my point. Players quite often look at new nanos or new guns or new items and call that "Luvvin". But the MP in PvM doesn't need to have nanos fixed or new stuff in order to get luvvin. We just need better pathing. That's pretty much it. The NTs on the other hand struggle in PvM even though they don't have anything that's really broken. They could do with some new 'stuff' in that area.

    On the PvP side, the MP needs some new stuff. As Ghidora suggested above, some way of reducing the likelihood of our pets being disabled would go a long way to making things right. It wouldn't even need to be a new nano or item - just allowing the pets to inherit the nanoresist of their owners at casting would be great.

    Whatever happens, in PvP the MP is certainly weak. We have the ability to do a lot of damage - if we could only rely on the pets more. We have the ability to heal reasonably well to - if only we could rely on the pets more. Something somewhere has to change for the MP in PvP - because with most of both our attack and defence in pets we're just too vulnerable to the 11 professions that can effectively disable them.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  8. #68
    Your words exhume truth!

    I couldnt have said it any better......
    Tikon - Forever an MP. Rest in peace my dear old friend.


    Remember, Life is a Journey, Not a Destination, So enjoy the ride..

  9. #69
    Originally posted by XtremTech

    Yup Tikon, this was essentially my point. Players quite often look at new nanos or new guns or new items and call that "Luvvin". But the MP in PvM doesn't need to have nanos fixed or new stuff in order to get luvvin. We just need better pathing. That's pretty much it. The NTs on the other hand struggle in PvM even though they don't have anything that's really broken. They could do with some new 'stuff' in that area.

    On the PvP side, the MP needs some new stuff. As Ghidora suggested above, some way of reducing the likelihood of our pets being disabled would go a long way to making things right. It wouldn't even need to be a new nano or item - just allowing the pets to inherit the nanoresist of their owners at casting would be great.

    Whatever happens, in PvP the MP is certainly weak. We have the ability to do a lot of damage - if we could only rely on the pets more. We have the ability to heal reasonably well to - if only we could rely on the pets more. Something somewhere has to change for the MP in PvP - because with most of both our attack and defence in pets we're just too vulnerable to the 11 professions that can effectively disable them.

    X
    change that to mass pvp though bro. We can rock the house in duels, but in mass pvp, we're meat.
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  10. #70

  11. #71
    I'll change it to group PvP mate.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  12. #72
    Bumpty bumpty bump
    k- This message has been reviewed by intrusive goons searching for "evil-doers".

  13. #73
    *up with ya*
    "I never threaten, I merely promise"

  14. #74

  15. #75

    Babbling

    Originally posted by Tikon
    Why?, because the Mp is unique, compared to any other class. We struggle we strife, but we still go on.
    In my opinion _every_ class should be unique in some way.

    Without my pets, I would be dead.
    Pets are your defining ability so I dont see that this is really a valid issue.

    The problem is that your pets are all to easily calmed/rooted in _PvP_. As has been mentioned, a nice fix would be to use the summoner's NR or something similar.

    If pet pathing were fixed, then we would see crats Engis and Mp's rise to the top classes, well maybe not the top but very close.]
    Exactly, fix pet pathing and add in new higher level Pets (which are coming from the sounds of it, let's hope they are good!) and Metas and Engies would be one of the strongest classes out there. They already are in the sub 150 PvM game.

    If NT's lack in NP skill, then why give them NP skill?
    Not sure what you mean here but NP is an aqua skill for us so it makes sense to increase it. The NP buffs werent something we particularly wanted but I for one am happy to get them (most of us arent though ).

    I dislike asking Metas for Mochams as it is (even though I tip I know how annoying being bombarded with buffs requests is from my agent), never mind if I had to go around asking for NP buffs too.

    I mean the NP skill buff was unique to the Mp?
    But alas, again another one of our helpfull buffs balanced.?
    Aside from the fact we have to camp for our NP buff I dont see this is anythign to worry about. Fixers were originally up in arms when Docs, and then NTs, got warp Nanos. In the end though they end up with Fixer Grid and GA... fantastic trade-off and the way I would like to see things move.

    i.e. Utility Nano's are spread between proffs with differing pros and cons but each prof should have some defining aspect to them and at the moment Fixers have NCU buffs, Fixer Grid, great HoTs (OK, also shared with Docs) and Grid armour (although a 130 Fixer solo-ing 200 MOBs and barely getting scratched is silly IMO, but that is another story).

    Don't nerf fixers though, give the rest of us something that makes teams go "Grab that Meta!" or "Grab that NT!" (at least then maybe Tir grid won't be a sea of blue skinned fixers)

    So wheres our nutility sphere or GA?
    No, you don't want a Nullity or a GA. Think of something else, someting that is unique to Metas.

    I have played the MP for a long time, and have not seen anything that will make waves for us.
    No, but for the vast majority of people who never get past 150, the Meta is a superb class. Hopefully the post-150 game will be improved and I would like to see your pets become more fearsome in PvP.

    > Just like the Fixers got GA and the Fixer Grid

    Yep, no wonder every one plays a fixer right now

    > Docs can warp

    Umm... OK, so you would be a happy camper if Metas were just given a warp. Somehow I doubt it.

    > NTs can warp and nutility

    Warps take 140 secs and are hardly every used but yes they are nice to have.

    Nullity... NS1 is waaay over-hyped (only time I saw it used the NT died ) and NS2 is still not _that_ common. Even then NS2 is a tad over-hyped in my opinion although I wouldn't part with it .

    > Mp's Fly and is a polite buff machine (some times)

    And are very poweful in the sub 150 PvM game (bar pet pathing). Anyone who says otherwise is lying through their teeth.

    Look at just about any guild distribution and NTs are typically only more common than Crats, surely that says something for a class that isnt broken (and we aren't, just we do not really have anything to make people want to play us).

    Anyway enough babbling. You said yourself fix pet pathing and you would be amongst the top classes, add in some higher level pets and this would be even more likely. Both of these North agree with so I am not really sure why he is getting so much flak.

    Regards
    Last edited by Rahmorak; Jan 21st, 2003 at 12:27:06.
    NT Motto: Veni, Vidi, Cucurri.
    Rahmorak, Clan Solitus NT
    How much damage are YOUR nukes doing?

  16. #76
    Not going to comment too much on MPs really since mine is never likely to pass level 34 to long as a bot herder to put up with 3 pets at once

    Regarding Engineers:

    AMS buffs

    A nice and much needed addition. But the attack rating of all pets was too low, including MP ones. Oh and what is this? Is the an Evocation line I see before me? Surely not.. oh yes... it's an AMS buff for your pet!

    Did that not make it ingame or something? Or did I entirely miss the part where *all* the pet professions got AMS buffs... that's crats too... aka Gallant Hero line.

    PVP

    At least no one is trying to take our worst ever at PVP crown

    Blind Nanos

    Nano is long cast, lasts 8 minutes. Has 7 metre range.

    Bugger all good in PVP - Breaks on 1 point of damage (including reflected).

    Debuff is great if we want to stand there and wave, crap if we want to fire back. Only recently fixed to actually be useful, but still requires another dark blue skill maxed.

    Debuff does not protect us from any other debuffs, nor your nukes.

    As for walking off, more like run, it only lasts 20 seconds between pulses.

    For anyone with above 1k attack rating you need to turn off reflect and damage shields since breaking the blind will have a rather unpleasant effect.

    Special Absorbing Shield

    Generally only something useful in PVP, which is oddly enough the one thing we're absolutely crap at. Find me a profession that can't kill us with non-special damage.

    Anti-Root Nanos

    They last 1 minute and have long cast time. But the bot, like your demon is stuck on a little lump in the ground anyway so what does it matter.

    Pet Snares

    Cause so many problems in mass PVP... massive spam every 30 seconds as it tells you you can't root everyone on the same side. Occasionally causes problems when it slips into 5%.

    -450 Runspeed is the highest I can cast. The next needs 8 more MC and TS than I have (including Nelebs, 2 Eggs). No one has ever given anyone a reason to run from an engineer bot or the engineer.

    Buffs

    Combat buffs. AC vs Min Damage. Reflect vs Soldier Reflects. Damage shields are pointless except for increasing mob hate on the pet.

    Non-Combat buffs. I can buff your pistol and grenade skills if you want? only took me until level 178 to be able to self cast that buff.

    Can I have a mastery so i can cast my bot please? Thanks...

    Pets

    In mass PVP we suffer from the same problems as you guys in terms of having out primary weapon completely nullified.

    Pathing is well known and remains number one on the list of things that annoy the hell out of us.


    So anyway, you can ask for a patch, and you need a patch, but please leave Engineers out of the we're so gimped type arguements. Any comparison down that line will not come off well.

    All the pet professions need serious work, but anytime you want to swap AC and reflect buffs for having to beg for buffs every single time you want to play...

    Good luck in getting fixed though because I would like to see more of you guys around higher levels.
    Highorbit - Supreme Creator - Atlantean - 205 - Armour
    Andrele - Sorcerer - Atlantean
    Simarion - General - Atlantean - 200
    Zendia - Doctor - Atlantean
    Roanna - Preserver - Atlantean
    Littleorbit - Priest - Atlantean

    Shameless Self Advertising: Engineer Guide

  17. #77
    AMS buffs

    A nice and much needed addition. But the attack rating of all pets was too low, including MP ones. Oh and what is this? Is the an Evocation line I see before me? Surely not.. oh yes... it's an AMS buff for your pet!

    Did that not make it ingame or something? Or did I entirely miss the part where *all* the pet professions got AMS buffs... that's crats too... aka Gallant Hero line.
    Just going to comment on this one last time. Yes we did get the evocation buff so that in mass PvP and high-level content our pets stood a chance of hitting anything reasonably well... only ours lasts 24 seconds max and has a 6 seconds recharge. Add in time for retargetting to and from pet (you know what that's like in mass PvP/at unique mobs...) and we lose at least half of our casting time. Since casting is all we do well... the AMS buff - though it looked like a bonus - actually doesn't help us much in the situations it was meant to fix. If we use it our pet hits better but we lose a whole bunch of damage and defence in lost casting time. If we don't use it our pets still don't hit terribly well. The proposal for changing the evocation line to make them fix the situation they were supposed to is here. Even in team missions the retargetting with the team moving around is a nightmare so we rarely get an evo in - even if the pet is there.

    The evo actually ended up helping MPs in the one situation we didn't need or want helping - soloing in missions. It didn't fix any of our issues in PvP or against uber mobs in the end due to its casting speed.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  18. #78
    Originally posted by XtremTech

    Just going to comment on this one last time. Yes we did get the evocation buff so that in mass PvP and high-level content our pets stood a chance of hitting anything reasonably well... only ours lasts 24 seconds max and has a 6 seconds recharge. Add in time for retargetting to and from pet (you know what that's like in mass PvP/at unique mobs...) and we lose at least half of our casting time. Since casting is all we do well... the AMS buff - though it looked like a bonus - actually doesn't help us much in the situations it was meant to fix. If we use it our pet hits better but we lose a whole bunch of damage and defence in lost casting time. If we don't use it our pets still don't hit terribly well. The proposal for changing the evocation line to make them fix the situation they were supposed to is here. Even in team missions the retargetting with the team moving around is a nightmare so we rarely get an evo in - even if the pet is there.

    The evo actually ended up helping MPs in the one situation we didn't need or want helping - soloing in missions. It didn't fix any of our issues in PvP or against uber mobs in the end due to its casting speed.

    X
    lol that's a terrible buff... sorry about that one then
    Highorbit - Supreme Creator - Atlantean - 205 - Armour
    Andrele - Sorcerer - Atlantean
    Simarion - General - Atlantean - 200
    Zendia - Doctor - Atlantean
    Roanna - Preserver - Atlantean
    Littleorbit - Priest - Atlantean

    Shameless Self Advertising: Engineer Guide

  19. #79

    Talking !!

    I dunno, i feel that its up to you if you can do well with or with out your pets. You can gear yourself to be not so pet reliant.. sure you wont have the pet 20 or 30 levels above you.. but youll be able to deal some damage and wear so great armor stack the evades and have a pet for that extra push. Its all how you decide to make your char.

    Just my 2 credits ..if its worth even that much =)
    -Rimor-
    Torrant- 124 crat Sol, Troublex- 84 NT Nano, Torant- 60 trader Trox
    Torzilla- 88 Fixer Sol, Aristodle- 90 MA trox, LyePoe- 54 doc
    -Test Server-
    Liepoe- 70 Doc Sol<--wiped
    Damian- 45 MP
    Torant- 25 Adv

    --->"Omni-Tek Protects"<---

  20. #80
    My first and original character which is a MP is now R.I.P till they fix the pets.

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