Trader love time!

[Wrangeline]

Yes I agree with u. As I said trader do very good damage in pvm but the HD and Vektor and Medium shotgun doesnt cut it in pvp these days. SMG-users have inzane burst (and regular damage) because of manex. Rifle-users have aimedshot which rips in pvp. Soldiers and enfs have a big collection of nice weapons where soldiers have full auto fling burst and what have u while enf have inzane damage on theirs.

Sure u can do good damage with the shotguns we have today but they kinda dont do the same impact as the other guns.

Personally I got Rifle, Shotgun, Ranged Energy, Aimed and fling maxed and triple implanted. (well fling and aimed got 2 imps each). Therefor I change betwean x-3, ithaca, medium shotgun, cold-lazer+HD or just cold lazer x 2 and so on. I know what guns do good at what situations and quite frankly.. if anyone wanted to buy my HD's, Vektors and medium shotguns I would sell them but people dont want to buy them.. wonder why.

[cold]

Originally posted by Kiryat-Dharin
Would you rather have an Ithaca or a Sol Chironis? I'd rather have an Ithaca.

Uh-huh. I assume you have a high QL ELLTS ?
Have you ever tried the Ithaca without a crit scope ? I bet you didn't.

[locomdenom]

Ever tried a Sol Chironis without a crit scope?

I bet you didn't.

Given the choice between a QL200 SC and a QL200 Ithaca, I'd rather have the Ithaca. Fling and AS, and better damage (see below). Of course, I'm not stupid, so I wouldn't use either - MCS is far superior to a Sol, critscope or no, and there are better shotties than the Ithaca as well.

For the record, I own a 12% scope (a gift from a leaving friend) which has stayed in a bag since I got it.

With an 11% crit chance (base+8% VE, easy to get), the damages:

Sol is 12189 (10665 normal + 3048 specials)
Ith is 12692 (10020 normal + 2672 specials) NOT COUNTING aimedshot.

With a 22% crit chance (base, VE, MoP, TTS, a common setup at high levels in PvP), the damages:

Sol is 15249 (13725 normal + 3048 specials)
Ith is 18468 (14580 normal + 3888 specials) NOT COUNTING aimedshot.

Equal ARs for both, a fling skill of 600, and a burst skill of 700 for the Sol (pretty accurate for when fixers can start self-equipping their Sols), and no AC taken into account. With 5000 AC, the relative rankings are the same. Plus, the Ithaca user can sit a little bit lower on the aggdef bar.

Yeah, I'd rather have the Ithaca with EASILY available buffs/items.

Have you ever thought that I might know math? I bet you didn't!

[locomdenom]

Originally posted by Wrangeline
Personally I got Rifle, Shotgun, Ranged Energy, Aimed and fling maxed and triple implanted. (well fling and aimed got 2 imps each). Therefor I change betwean x-3, ithaca, medium shotgun, cold-lazer+HD or just cold lazer x 2 and so on. I know what guns do good at what situations and quite frankly.. if anyone wanted to buy my HD's, Vektors and medium shotguns I would sell them but people dont want to buy them.. wonder why.

Name me one other profession that can do as well switching between setups like that. Soldiers can't.

Who the HELL thinks that traders have weapon problems, given the above?!?

[__________THEDEACON!]

How about a nice duel wielded, trader only nerf bat?

*ducks*

[______________Promoo]

/me throwa another log on the fire ...
Why does this trader want to do the agents job? .. ahh yes because we cant do it and have stolen the trade skills ...

[Wobble]

bump for area divest.

Prof only weps = bad.

Almost every weapon class has had a new weapon in it since launch except for shotgun.

Bump for a new shotgun.

At a decent level engies are way better than traders at tradeskills because of all the buffing items they have and the fact that maestros are not self only. +40 points does make a big difference. Also engies actually have a reason to raise tradeskills.. they have trimmers.. Traders have nothing (that drops in the game currently) that uses tradeskills other than actuall tradeskill processes.


We DONT need a NP buff, We DONT need prof specific weapons.

What would be nice is having some of our nano lines fixed and some others re-balanced positively.. not nerfed so bad no one uses them anymore like happened last time.

Oh and let some more ranged weapons be upgradeable through tradeskills.. you're starting to get it right with armours now, and a few new uber weps.. but there needs to be more of that tradeskill luvvin.

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by Wobble
At a decent level engies are way better than traders at tradeskills because of all the buffing items they have

• Giraldi Crystal I through V - requires Melee Energy, so almost never used. QL200 adds Mech Eng 30.
• Helmet of Technical Ceremonies - drops from The One, so good luck getting that. Adds Pharma Tech 10.
• Breastplate of Technical Ceremonies - as above, but adds 10 to 20 to a variety of tradeskills.
• Construction Sleeves - drops in the Subway, so easy to get. Adds 3 to 5 pts to four tradeskills.
• Mechanical Analyzer - don't know if this is in-game or not. Adds 4 pts to Mech Eng.
• Modified A-4000 NCU Sheet - adds +40 to Nano Programming at QL200. Tough mob to kill, it'll shred a Slayer with ease.
• Repairman's Hat - adds 5 to 10 pts to four skills at QL50.
• H.U.D Upgrade: Personal STM - drops from T.I.M. in BioMare. Actually a nice item, this one adds 35 to Elec Eng and Quantum FT.
• Pre-configured NCU: Electrical Engineering - not sure where this drops, although for some reason I'm pretty sure it does drop. QL200 adds 50 to Elec Eng.
• Small Ebony Figurine - QL250 (!) adds 20 to Nano Programming and Comp Lit.

That's your lot for Engineer tradeskill items. Anything else is either not profession restricted, is not in the game or both (the Solar Powered Engineer Pistol, for example). We can get some pretty good adds to Elec Eng, but everything else is a bit second rate.

Currently, there's a very small gap right at the top of the tradeskill range where you need both a Trader and an Engineer to do the work. There's a much larger range right below that where a Trader can do the work self-buffed, but an Engineer can't. Below that it's a free-for all.

To do the very hardest tradeskill work you need a team, consisting of an Engineer, a Trader and possibly a Doc to help swap implants around. To do tradeskill work which is merely difficult, you just need the Trader. Introduce Trader-only tradeskill items and you've just cut the Engineer out of the loop entirely.

Also engies actually have a reason to raise tradeskills.. they have trimmers..

Trimmers fall into two bands, those with reasonable reqs and those that no-one uses. Traders often complain that it's only spare ip that goes into tradeskills. It's the same for Engineers, you raise these skills just enough to be able to use a reasonable trimmer set and no more.

You should also know that one of the trimmers is bugged (Divert to Avoidance), two others have drawbacks massively larger than their benefits (Divert to Offence and Divert to Defence) and one other works but is pretty much pointless (Negative Agg/Def). This remaining three can be operated from quite modest reqs in a small subset of tradeskills.

You'll notice that I'm not asking for tradeskill buffs for Engineers. I'm certainly not one of the "Engineers should be better than Traders" adherents. However, I do bridle when I see someone with easy access to a +140 buff argue that he should have access to additional tradeskill buffing items so that he can eliminate my profession entirely from the tradeskill process. I can't even wrangle you into your shiny new weapon. What else do I do, other than tradeskills?

Cheers,

~R~

[Wrangeline]

Soldier cant do what I do? Their weapon skills are green so they dont have to waste a billion IP like I do. The implantsetup doesnt crash any more for them either. Green skills + thir buffs give them same attackrating as me as well when it comes to rifle and ranged energy.

Me having this setup is because Im allmost lvl 183 now and I have tons of spare IP. No trader in a lower lvl can do this without leaving out some important skills.

Im high enough lvl to try out other routes than a main weapon skill. Even if they are blue. What about the lower lvls?

Oh and btw I lost about 50 TS and PM (my main skills) to get the Ranged energy.

[Wrangeline]

To make it short:

1. Either we buy expensive ellts to make ithaca good (I DONT think HD or vektor or whatever cuts it. I test damage everyday. I try everything and these weapons suck

2. Waste IPR's to change weapon skill.

3. Or waste 5-10 lvls depending on the traders lvl to get enough IP for a new weapon.

The reason why noone else than the trader "have" to make one of these bad choices is because shotgun is critreliant and after the critnerf we get a boot in the face.

The damage on shotguns (not ithaca because u need ellts so that dont count) are good but the specials lack. No aimed or burst or full auto. only fling. Fling is sucky

Wouldnt it be ok (not just for traders but for any shotgunuser) if there was a shotgun that was doing ok regular damage like HD but had a special like aimed?

Why not? Does it make shotgun users uber? No. Does it add some fun to the crappy shotgunusers? Yeah. Then why not?

[coldwarkid]

Sounds good, since I don't think there's a shotgun that just has AS as a special. However, why make it Trader-only? Agents might like to use it too, although they'll never match your attack rating. Soldiers will get a bit closer, but fair enough, they're a weapons prof.

Just to clear up any confusion, I'm all for more tradeskill items and/or processes. I just don't think they should be restricted by profession.

Cheers,

~R~

[Wrangeline]

I never said that the gun should be trader only. This was for all shotgunusers. Because its shotgun that is the problem not the profession

I know docs and NTs and crats and MPs and Engies would love this too.

[locomdenom]

Originally posted by Wrangeline
Soldier cant do what I do? Their weapon skills are green so they dont have to waste a billion IP like I do. The implantsetup doesnt crash any more for them either. Green skills + thir buffs give them same attackrating as me as well when it comes to rifle and ranged energy.

Me having this setup is because Im allmost lvl 183 now and I have tons of spare IP. No trader in a lower lvl can do this without leaving out some important skills.

Im high enough lvl to try out other routes than a main weapon skill. Even if they are blue. What about the lower lvls?

Oh and btw I lost about 50 TS and PM (my main skills) to get the Ranged energy.

Solds can't do it as well as you can, because all you have to do is maintain a single pair of buffs (easier said than done, I know). Their buffs DON'T by any measure match up to a fully drained trader, and take up a lot more NCU. For a soldier to be switching in that kind of setup, their entire NCU would be filled solely by the WEAPON buffs, leaving them no room for reflects and such. Traders know what it's like to have big NCU requirements: imagine having to keep 5-6 different 40 NCU buffs running just to use your weapons, like soldiers do.

Lower levels can use HDs, Vektors, and Medium Shotguns, which are all decent guns. Why do they need anything better than those?

I'm not against a *new* shotgun, that gives a different path (a decent bursting shotgun, maybe? The OTMPS is a little bit weak), but I am against a *better* shotgun. The existing ones are adequate.

At high levels, a trader can be (if they spend the IP) the *most* flexible weapons prof in the game. Melee or ranged, any main attack skill (except piercing, maybe?), a trader can do well with it.

[___________JagdTyger]

One thing all you whiners fail to see is that if you whine to nerf any profession your profession is most likely next.

Jagdtyger (172 adv)
Vampiira (150 tra)

[Wrangeline]

Soldier dont need more buffs running for the stuff I do. Its not like I change guns in the middle of the battle or anything.

Fully divested I guess I get about 100 more attackrating than a soldier but that is to compensate with the fact that I have to use alot of time to get that much and waste nano doing it and having to do it again once it ends.

U made a very good point about lower lvl shotgun users not needing better shotgunthan HD and such

And yes u are right that the traders are best when it comes to changing weapons at higher lvls. We have to waste alot of IP on those blue skills tho but it is possible.

I dont feel bad for myself hehe I just feel bad for the rest of the shotgunusers out there.

Trader-only uber shotgun = NOOOO!
New shotgun in general = Yeeees

[Kuro]

Just let me make myself clear here:


The trader profession does not need another gun!


It doesn't need any new weapon of any type whatsoever. People wanting a new gun are mistakenly asking for the thing most real Traders want to avoid: becoming a second soldier class.

We don't need to do any more damage. Damage is not the defining point of the profession. Tradeskills and Skill Swapping is what a trader is. Continuing to perpetuate this "More damage!" trend is running completely opposite what people claim they want: to do something besides kill stuff.

[Wrangeline]

Ok same by me I dont need it.

But could FC make a shotgun that traders are not allowed to use then?

I just want the other shotgunusers to get a shotgun that does deacent damage.

haha cool first NON-profession gun.

*********
"Premium Non-Trader Shotgun

Requirements:

789 shotgun
445 aimed
445 Fling

DMG: 43-445(345)
ATC: 2.5s
RCH: 2.5s
DMG-TYPE: Projectile

Profession must absolutely NOT be trader because they can own stuff with a lockpick if they are fully divested

**********

[Wrangeline]

Is there any high lvl players that would use shotgun if they didnt have a scope? Shotgun is the only weaponskill that is "scope-based". Then someone would say that u dont need scope if u have HD or vektor. Those dont have specials

Strange really.. u can have ellts AND lots of specials with Ithaca or u can be like most poeple and dont have ellts and NO specials. Doesnt make sense.

And once again this isnt trader-specific its the shotgunskill in general.

[_________________MIL]

MORE GUNS will always = GOOD

I dont care what anyone says more weapons choices is good

yeah maybe not profession specific but as u can see

Soldiers=Div9,Nova,and Hell spinner(or any gun really)
Trader=Ithy,HD,Medium,and Vektor
Fixer=MCS,Sol chronis,and Manex
Agent=X-3,Stigma(maybe)
Enforcer=Beam,QB,Sticks,and Hammer
Adventurer=Sol executioners,and BBI
MA=claws,and sticks
MP,NT,Engie,Doc,Crat=X-3,Ithy,and skill adding pistols

pretty much a breakdown of what ppl mainly use there are thousands of weapons out there but there are the only ones that are used im curious why

cuz all the other guns are crap and here to take up space

add more guns worth using

The above may not reflect u personally its just a generalization of what ive seen as the majority

Add more guns and add more tradeskill process guns

[Kuro]

Originally posted by milmaker
MORE GUNS will always = GOOD

I dont care what anyone says more weapons choices is good

yeah maybe not profession specific but as u can see

Soldiers=Div9,Nova,and Hell spinner(or any gun really)
Trader=Ithy,HD,Medium,and Vektor
Fixer=MCS,Sol chronis,and Manex
Agent=X-3,Stigma(maybe)
Enforcer=Beam,QB,Sticks,and Hammer
Adventurer=Sol executioners,and BBI
MA=claws,and sticks
MP,NT,Engie,Doc,Crat=X-3,Ithy,and skill adding pistols

pretty much a breakdown of what ppl mainly use there are thousands of weapons out there but there are the only ones that are used im curious why

cuz all the other guns are crap and here to take up space

add more guns worth using

The above may not reflect u personally its just a generalization of what ive seen as the majority

Add more guns and add more tradeskill process guns

More guns = more ways to do damage. More ways to do damage = more killing. More killing != more fun. Or isn't that what many people have been saying? There's nothing to do but kill, kill, kill?