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Thread: PVP is ruined for alll except...

  1. #21
    Originally posted by Infamine
    lol did Deacon suck ur toes or something ?
    - Traders cant all pvp, plunder doesnt land and divest doesnt cut it
    - Enforcers are off if youdont let them challenger etc... recharge before fighting - why ? cause i dont ask a 40 sec break when my TMS is down, their nanopool is a major weakness and it takes ~10 sec+ to cast rage+mongo+challenger+FoB, so when they wanna fight just fight and buff those when ur fighting.
    - Fixers dont kill jack cause that burst just doesnt hurt enough to keep you from running away, i can do grid> N bunker in 2HO with a fixer on my ass and snares/roots 800 max dmg is a joke...

    I'd sure love to attack your toes, cutie

    Hold that well shaped foot---er, we're talking pvp...

    This is such a mixed bag here. Almost every profession except for pet classes can make a strong showing in mass pvp. Hell, even an engineer's bot is pretty goddamned nasty these days. Not the easy pickins of old school engis at all.

    I could see playing a trader in a tower battle as being a major annoyance actually. Divests/plunders have a looooong recharge (6 seconds was it?) and chances are that the latter, with its 190% resist, is going to get resisted. By the time you've drained up, you could be dead.

    Enforcers might be a slight pain with the shallow nanopool, but with triple implanted nano regen and pnh with a nanocost reducer running, I don't think it'd be that bad. The bastards run so fast that you might as well call them a ranged class hehe.

    When I step onto the battlefield with my MA or MP, I feel like I have a neon bullseye on my head. "HEY THERE'S A GIMP! FREE PVP POINTS!" Last four tower battles I been too, I had five folks ripping into my nanobutt like I just dropped the soap or something. The lag, crowd control and pvp buffing limits also remove us from the picture as well. As for MAs....man, I don't even know what to say there, but it's a pretty sad day when I'd rather mass pvp with an MP than an MA. On the lighter side of things, I can beat docs and ga fixers pretty easily with the MP (on the rare occasion that im not lag spiked to hell and the pets are attacking a friendly tower) and traders about 60% of the time.

    But as for the statement that only trader, docs, fixers and enforcers are having fun in pvp, absolute bollocks!! Phear the NTs with area blinds and aoe nukes! Phear agents, ffs. Little bastards hide on you and then pop you with an aimed shot from 40 meters away followed by three crits. Hell no I don't want a piece of that.
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  2. #22
    you would be a fool to deny that some proffesions have advantages that make them better for pvp, overall. Even tho every class has the potential to be a pvp god if they really try.. some have it much easier.

    To be dominant, and noticed in pvp duels and wars. its much easier to do so as a trader or enforcer or fixer NT as well now.

    Everyone has different opinions. some people blindly defend thier class like it means life or death to them.

    The nerf calls are a result of getting beaten by a superior oponent, not because they are superior but their class is better suited to some aspect of pvp then you are.

    Do you think there is any way that i am ever going to beat someone like pomy in a duel? not 1/1000 chances. my point being that even if I was the most experienced player in the game with the best equipment, i simply could not beat her because her class has an advantage. not because she is better at pvp then me. (just an example dont take anything beyond that please)

    though there is some skill in this game, all the skill in the world does nothing compared to what Funcom can do with class balance, thus players get frusterated.

    it's easy for some people to just call others newbs but its not always true. I can beat a EQB enforcer sometimes, but i can almost never beat a trader.. even ones much lower level then me. am i more skilled then the EQB enfocer? is the trader more skilled then me? doubt it... our classes just have certain abilitys that let us beat other classes.

    some of these ability's will always shine out as stronger then the majority, and some classes will have a much easier time killing thier opponents not because of skill but because of what FC has given you. aka trader drains, EQB Grid armour 4.

    I don't personally see a problem with any of these. cept maybe drains but i dont want to touch that again...

    just my point of view : /
    Legion

    || 220 || || Soldier || || Obligatory Equipment listing ||


    If you are going through hell, keep going.
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    Sir Winston Churchill

  3. #23
    Nothinman is exactly right. But maybe if a soldier was in a team with a doc's nano resist buff and a crat's nano resist speech, he might beat a trader. Sometimes teamwork can change the intended outcome of a fight. GAWD knows I'd get my ass ripped open by nothinman in mass pvp....er or 1 on 1 pvp...Im having trouble sitting down just thinking about fighting nothinman...

    But are trader drains really that good in mass pvp? I'm sure im wrong on this (I usually when when I have no idea what Im talking about), but it seems like the recharge on those drains and the nano resist on plunders would make things pretty rough.
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  4. #24
    my problem with drains comes down to basically 2 things... but dont start a thread highjack about this please traders.

    1. Traders have green tradeskills, and tradeskill buffs, they also have blue weapon skills. Soldiers have blue tradeskills and green weapon skills, all soldier buffs are based on offense and defense.
    the trader kills the soldier quite easily. as well as most other proffesions in duels (ya ya duels dont matter, this doesnt change what i said above does it??)

    2. Traders, much, much lower level then me.. less experienced and more poorly equipped can beat me quite easily. calling me a newb is kind of silly as i have tried everything and every setup since i started pvping against traders over a year ago.

    since NR has become strong they have become less dominant. however i still find myself plundered with 830 NR at full def, and my pure AR gun is over equipped.. did i mention im level 200 and this is my primary weapon skill that is triple implanted and buffed?


    im just stating facts. dont flame me for it.
    Legion

    || 220 || || Soldier || || Obligatory Equipment listing ||


    If you are going through hell, keep going.
    -
    Sir Winston Churchill

  5. #25

    Nothinman

    Good posts there. Im kinda tired atm so I might have missed something vital u said but I can see u talk about some profs beat others because they have an advantage but allso loosing to other profs because their advantages no longer count.

    Like u said: Soldier can beat enf but soldier cant beat Doc. Win some loose some. Why? Simply because some profs work better against certain profs than others.

    I have noticed u talking alot about drains and I agree. Most soldiers suck against trader. But dont forget that trader suck against certain profs too. Drain is all we have, it works well on some (like soldier) and it works like crap on others (like enf).

    As a trader I FEAR agents that manage to sneak up on me and concentrate my .. behind to the reclaim. and even if the concentrate didnt kill me then they would kill me during the 15 sec needed to make their gun OE at all.

    As a trader I FEAR enfs that have twice my hp and NR that makes it virtually impossible to drain them. Its possible to beat them but it takes some luck.

    As a trader I actually FEAR soldiers if they use the right type of guns against me. Soldiers that shoot at me with a div9 before debuff and after debuff are stoopid. The soldiers that use fling, burst, full auto + one normal shot with flashpoint on me and changing to another quicker gun while Im waiting for the nano-recharge to end so I can use plunder are a nightmare. Cast TMS at the right time in there as well and Ill be a sitting duck. Sure ure gun will be debuffed but even with that gimp gun ure currently using u would kill me (if I didnt die allready) while ure tms is up. In Mass pvp all u had to do was run past me and do an alpha and see me cry while u smile and run further hehe. I know Im making it sound like soldier own trader but thats not exactly what I ment. I just mean that u have a chance if u really want to, EVEN tho we are ure nemesis.

    As a trader I fear docs because if they cast initdebuff on me Im so slow it aint even funny lol. And it lasts really long too. I have faught docs that even fully debuffed by me is able to heal half their hp every 10 sec. Im not saying that docs own traders but they have a chance as well.

    All profs can do whatever they want with us traders until we are done casting debuffs (takes 15 sec to cast only 2 if the oponnent doesnt resist). Nerfing divest/plunder by cutting amount of skill stolen in half or whatever would mean that I was unable to make ure gun go OE at all. If ure gun doesnt go OE its a waste of nano.

  6. #26

    oh and btw

    AFTER posting I saw that u didnt want this thread to become a drain-thread highjacked by traders. Well u cant expect to highjack the thread to comment on drains and then tell us to let it be now can u?

    The person that made this thread mentioned 4 profs and trader was one of them. Im here to defend what I think is fine the way it is and when I see the word trader then it means drains because thats all we have.
    btw I FEAR fixers in ga 4 because landing plunder is useally a ***** and if it doesnt land he will eat me alive with the Manex.

    Stuff that means u have to use tactics to win isnt overpowered. Things like the GA nuke is overpowered because its designed to wack fixers pretty much 100%.

    Hell I actually argued with Anikitos alot becuase I thought the EQB was overpowered. But when u come to think of it EQB isnt all that in mass pvp. I admitted that.

  7. #27
    Originally posted by Infamine
    lmao i can still ear the whines about the tree in 2HO
    LMAO, I'm guilty of that, and I'm almost as proud of being a
    "nature lover" as being a rooftop sniper in MMD. That tree gave
    more than a range advantage, it was the suprise of not knowing
    where the hell the attack was coming from initally that made it great..

    Abid is 100% right in some respects. If you're an agent and you
    duel, you're an outright dumbass unless dueling another agent.

    I'm only lv126, right now, but I have 39 hours played. Much of
    which was PvP from 12.6-13.2 (Though I lost 2 titles since.)

    I get /tells from ENF/TRA/FIX all the time asking if I want to duel,
    and you know what I say? Nope. But as soon as they see
    another target, I go into sneak and wait. Wait until that fight has
    concluded and they're in a weakened state. When that trader or
    enforcer's nano is depleted, and that fixer's HP is down a bit,
    that's the time to strike. When they're weak and unsuspecting.

    I feel kind of insulted by that, however. Does an assassin truly
    fight that way? I think not. An assassin is more than a vulture,
    they're mastermind killers who, though they pick their targets
    selectively for a reason, should be capable of killing anyone.

    Do agents need work for PvP? Yes, I think fine tuning is due. But I
    firmly believe that at higher levels, post-160(ish) things will begin
    to look up. Even still, I have things to prepose to FC for improvement.

    If the agent is your profession, learn what works for each level.
    In the pre-150 arena for an agent, it isn't impossible to get 3
    shot kills. But later on, I can only imagine the planning and
    *patience* it will take to live up to your title's name. Assassin.

    I think the main reason I'm only Freshman titled these days is
    because I'm not in a guild that has some higher level land where
    I can actually perticipate in tower battles. IF I had more of a hand
    in mass PvP, I'm sure I'd be better off than I am. Give it a try if
    you can, though, as I'm absolutely positive it'll yield more reward than 1-on-1.

    Blah blah blah.. I babble nonesense.

  8. #28

    Re: oh and btw

    Originally posted by Wrangeline
    AFTER posting I saw that u didnt want this thread to become a drain-thread highjacked by traders. Well u cant expect to highjack the thread to comment on drains and then tell us to let it be now can u?

    The person that made this thread mentioned 4 profs and trader was one of them. Im here to defend what I think is fine the way it is and when I see the word trader then it means drains because thats all we have.
    btw I FEAR fixers in ga 4 because landing plunder is useally a ***** and if it doesnt land he will eat me alive with the Manex.

    Stuff that means u have to use tactics to win isnt overpowered. Things like the GA nuke is overpowered because its designed to wack fixers pretty much 100%.

    Hell I actually argued with Anikitos alot becuase I thought the EQB was overpowered. But when u come to think of it EQB isnt all that in mass pvp. I admitted that.
    I didn't post "traders should be nerfed because" i said "my problem with them is" it wasnt a nerf call just pointing out a few facts. ones which didnt get addressed as usual : )

    of all the powerful things in this game, none of them can beat me at such a low lvl. there arent many lvl 150 enfs that can beat me, or fixers or docs or anyone for that matter. but lvl 150 traders beat me all the time.

    also, as i stated if you look at my first point. it doesnt make sense how easily a soldier is beaten by a class with an opposite set of buffs and green/blue skills. just doesnt make any sense.

    again this is just one opinion...
    Legion

    || 220 || || Soldier || || Obligatory Equipment listing ||


    If you are going through hell, keep going.
    -
    Sir Winston Churchill

  9. #29
    Originally posted by Infamine

    - Traders cant all pvp, plunder doesnt land and divest doesnt cut it
    Thats true, but its all about that nano. When it does land (in a duel, in mass pvp I just hope they swich targets so I can virus scan) its cripples you more then it should. Maybe not just one, but when you have both running your dead. Or at least a lot of us are.


    - Enforcers are off if youdont let them challenger etc... recharge before fighting - why ? cause i dont ask a 40 sec break when my TMS is down, their nanopool is a major weakness and it takes ~10 sec+ to cast rage+mongo+challenger+FoB, so when they wanna fight just fight and buff those when ur fighting.


    Sorry but this is just not true. A lvl 200 enforcer with an EQB is pretty much unbeatable except with a doc. The reason a doc can win is because of overpowered heals in pvp.


    Fixers dont kill jack cause that burst just doesnt hurt enough to keep you from running away, i can do grid> N bunker in 2HO with a fixer on my ass and snares/roots 800 max dmg is a joke...
    A GA fixer can kill so many its silly, one of the reasons that we now have a grid armor nuke. Try looking at the game from someone elses perspective.
    Last edited by Razkul; Jan 6th, 2003 at 01:06:51.

  10. #30
    "Try looking at the game from someone elses perspective".

    Without a doubt your one of the first on these boards who should take your own advice.
    Alantria 203 Fixer Squad commander/Recruiter of Eternal Fury

  11. #31
    You are absolutely correct, certain classes have distinct advantages in PvP, both duels and towers. A player with no skill at the game whatsoever in one of these professions can often beat someone with much higher skill.

    That said, for goodness sakes man! MP as one of those classes! Yes, you can't really do it well until title 5 caps at 162, but hell, after that you can be whatever you want. You may never be able to cast crown of frost or the highest drains, but the lesser versions of those are not bad at all. You can drain AND unload much more damage than any trader can in 5 seconds. You can heal yourself and debuff the enemy as a doc AND have an 1100 AR self buffed. Be creative!

    Agents are late bloomers but they bloom very well. Level more and PvP less until then.

    PS, scrounge as much nano init as possible out of your gear. You'll be glad you did.

  12. #32

    Re: Nothinman

    Originally posted by Wrangeline
    As a trader I fear docs because if they cast initdebuff on me Im so slow it aint even funny lol. And it lasts really long too. I have faught docs that even fully debuffed by me is able to heal half their hp every 10 sec. Im not saying that docs own traders but they have a chance as well.
    I love this topic, so I figured I'd throw in my two cents

    I've done a LOT of Doc/Trader PvP. And let me tell you, in 1-on-1 fights, it is a total landslide in either the Trader's or the Doc's favor depending on one thing and one thing only:

    If plunder lands

    I think Asmoran will agree with me too, as might Abid, since those are two Traders I've PvP'd quite a bit testing different things.

    Sure, the init debuff lasts a while, but our highest doesn't even outlast divest Ask Asmoran, he doesnt even worry about being init debuffed in Trd/Doc fights anymore and starts at full aggro. Its not an issue to him and he rarely dies to Docs.

    I can thoroughly spank almost any Trader if they don't land plunder, not only because of the heals I can cast with only divest on me, but also nukes and other init debuffs. Land plunder and I'm totally helpless and put 100% on the defensive -- and using QL80 heals defending against a Trader with +345 (I think?) nanoskills and attack rating is pretty rough

    I haven't been able to find a middle ground to make a Doc/Trader fight a "decent" fight. It's always a total joke. I've resisted Divest/plunder 6 times in a row, and killed Traders in under 30 seconds before. I've also had Divest/plunder both land on me on the first attempt while myself being full defense w/ 1000 nano resist w/ the 2nd vaccine nano running. It's all luck and all a roll of the dice.

    Bottom line, Doc/Trader fights aren't ever really fun. This may change if you run into someone who doesn't know how to play their profession, but for the most part, the above is what happens when those two professions go at it one-on-one

    edit-typo
    Last edited by Sheffy; Jan 6th, 2003 at 09:45:31.

  13. #33

    Nothinman/Sheffy

    Nothinman as I said I was tired so I missed some points u made hehe sry. And Sheffy I agree with what u say about trader vs Doc in pvp. It aint funny to pvp a doc in the same way that its really horrible to fight another trader. Its all about debuffes and who has most nano

  14. #34
    Originally posted by Piercingevil


    Thats true, but its all about that nano. When it does land (in a duel, in mass pvp I just hope they swich targets so I can virus scan) its cripples you more then it should. Maybe not just one, but when you have both running your dead. Or at least a lot of us are.



    Sorry but this is just not true. A lvl 200 enforcer with an EQB is pretty much unbeatable except with a doc. The reason a doc can win is because of overpowered heals in pvp.



    A GA fixer can kill so many its silly, one of the reasons that we now have a grid armor nuke. Try looking at the game from someone elses perspective. [/B]
    - pump ur ams to 1.5k+ and you still will hit for 400ish, with nice burst even with both runnin, the sucky part is when their AS crits, but usually after a good alpha they need to heal first (yes with the heal steal that does only 50% dmg when used on yourself -oops i said it ;( )
    - and the enf its all about luck if your AS and your FA does 40% you got a good edge, if not your dead
    - fixers are no longer a problem actually, they cant damage fast enough to kill you, and they dont stay too close when they realise you do 40% dmg every 8 sec
    Infamine 200 soljah

  15. #35
    Originally posted by Thedeacon


    But as for the statement that only trader, docs, fixers and enforcers are having fun in pvp, absolute bollocks!! Phear the NTs with area blinds and aoe nukes! Phear agents, ffs. Little bastards hide on you and then pop you with an aimed shot from 40 meters away followed by three crits. Hell no I don't want a piece of that.
    first dont touch my toes
    and second i absolutely agree im way more worried by an agent that know what hes doing than by a fixer or a trader, because the agent can drop me dead very fast where i usually got the time to run if its a fixer or an trader.
    As for tower battle, i couldnt say i usually dont go or when i go i m in sneak all the time waiting for someone to alpha
    When i go with my doc tho, the most annoying stuff is the goddamn blinds and the snares, or the aeo but since they not anymore from outta space its ok
    Infamine 200 soljah

  16. #36
    Originally posted by Deezlar
    to the first 2 posters : Think before your hands touch the keyboard. that way there wont be so much SHHite to read.

    Poster nO 3.. thanks for the constructive post. i agree agents are the factor of life or death in mass pvp 9 Imyslef took out a sol at 40% hp that had just killed a omni worker.. the scum ) but there should at least be a semblance of balance.

    BTW.. notice the 2 first posters are enf and trader?
    To the first poster:
    Originally posted by Deezlar
    [B]to the first poster: Think before your hands touch the keyboard. that way there wont be so much SHHite to read.

  17. #37
    I like the way that most experienced PvPers are now not just shouting nerf any time that a trader is mentioned.

    I think FC are eventually starting to shape the pvp who's>than who system quite well, they just need to do some work on the other 7-8 profs that are tier 2-3..

    oh and they need to fix traders in pvm too..
    (sorry couldn't resist)
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  18. #38
    I do OK as an agent. I can't really speak for the other classes since I only play an agent in pvp. I do know this, by carefully choosing my target I usually get them to drop in 4 shots. As I mentioned in the agent forums, choosing the right target doesn't mean they are weaker than me and Mithrax (20+ levels on me..hehe..he's a sweety) can attest to this.

    It's about watching people making mistakes and hitting them when they are isolated or distracted. The AS followed by 3 crits does most folks in. I then evac from the battlefield, rebuff, reload, and wait for my crit buff to recycle. Then it's back to conceal mode looking for my next target.
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  19. #39
    In many mass PvPs, when crowd control kicks in, the caterwaul, x-3, or ithaca is a vastly superior weapon to the EQB or the manex. Come to think of it anything with 25-30+ meters range is a better weapon. At least you can hit someone with them.
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  20. #40
    Originally posted by Jynne
    In many mass PvPs, when crowd control kicks in, the caterwaul, x-3, or ithaca is a vastly superior weapon to the EQB or the manex. Come to think of it anything with 25-30+ meters range is a better weapon. At least you can hit someone with them.
    I've been lots happier since I switched my adv over from pistol of the moment to Caterwaul, and I'm not doneexperimenting yet with weapons. I will come up with something I can kill fixers with, pesky little critters are immune to regular damage and you can only kill them with specials....So be it. But like Jynne said anyone with short range weapons are at a huge disadvantage, the NT AOE's and blinds come at max range, and only way to hit back is with long ranged weapon.

    As for my doc, I don't have any major complaints about him on the battlefield, I'm still learning the ropes PVPing him, he gets killed regularly, usually when I get too brave and wander within range of a bunch of alphas, or when I'm blinded and wander into a EQB enforcer. Title level 6 EQB enf vs title level 5 doc who can't run equals dead doc, impossible to outheal the damage done thus far. I'm not calling for EQB nerf, because if I"m not divested/rooted/blinded I can usually run to safety and heal.

    As for my adventurer, well, that class has problems. Adv have heals so they don't go down fast, the damage shields are a plus against anyone with a fast weapon, but our main method of damage has been totally rendered ineffective by roots and snares. I'm talking about melee adventurers. Every trader knows that its easy to land the divest plunder on adventurers out there-as long as enemy adventurer around, the trader doesn't need a drain pet. And then being drained, we are rooted, and the slaughter begins, as the title level 3 heals we are capable of then are not capable of keeping up with the damage, and if using pistol or swords, we can't even hit back :P When I'm playing my doc, I love to see an adv out there, cause i can just debuff and dot him, and he's dead meat.

    On adv forums I've proposed something to even things up for adventurers. Basically, if an adventurer was in wolf form, he'd be immune to roots, snares, and blinds. If you think about it, originally the wolf came with night vision, which was worthless because when we could cast playful cub, we all had the night vision glasses. Given that wolves have keen perception, yada yada, they should be unaffected by those blinds, allowing adv to call out enemy movements to the rest of the blinded crew, slightly decreasing the effectiveness of the blind, which is really a most uber tactic. Because all melee adv are short range, and most ranged adv have short range weapons, allowing root/snare immunity in wolf form would let the attack continue instead of being bogged down, etc. In wolf form the adv doesn't have access to the instaheals, and doesn't get the AMR bonus and crit bonus that comes with the usual fighting morph sabretooth, so it would be a tradeoff. I think putting those changes into effect would definately help that class without making it overpowering and make adv a nemesis class to traders/nts but not really changing balance with other classes. It goes without saying that these new wolf form features would have to be class only.
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