better idea... why don't these supposedly uber clanners of rk2 go play on rk1 if we aren't giving them enough of a challenge.Originally posted by arsiine
Let omni from rk1 temporarily come to rk2 to do what the weak-arsed omni of rk2 cant.
better idea... why don't these supposedly uber clanners of rk2 go play on rk1 if we aren't giving them enough of a challenge.Originally posted by arsiine
Let omni from rk1 temporarily come to rk2 to do what the weak-arsed omni of rk2 cant.
Originally posted by Jaesic
did you ever take into account that maybe we only raid because numerically, we don't have the people to hold any more bases than we already have? omni holds a majority of the low level bases ... but at high levels, only our large orgs are able to stand up to the larger and more pvp involved clan orgs...
If this holds true, then you need to start merging your guilds a bit, distasteful as it may seem. Also, a small Clan org can expect that a bunch of Clanners outside their org show up to fight off Omni attackers, a small Omni org should be able to expect the same.
Unfortunately, all I have seen of Tower prices (in the shop at least) is that they are in fact dirt cheap, all things considered, so the tactic of harassment doesn't really hold, it's a nuisance that's all.Originally posted by Jaesic
and if we don't have enough people to build towers to hold the base, the best we can do for now is cost the clans cash to keep what they have. it may be pathetic... but then, so is the situation that allows people to defect to the clans just so they get a better exp bonus and safer bases on which to build personal towers.
And when you attack, you open yourself for counter attack, which is really really bad. I have myself scouted every Omni base north of the PM/4H line (the data is a few days old now, so things may have changed) and there is not a single base, with the possible exception of Adastrus II's base in DAV, that I would hesitate in calling gimpy.
It's only a matter of time before some other Clanners with less symphaty than me for Omnis plight does a scouting blitz of their own, and if they post their results here, then a Clan storm of attack will surely be unleashed.
Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega
Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today
No, I'm not back.
How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?
FC have intended the clans to win the start , thats the way the storyline goes, I mean, early on most GMs was clanaligned even...
As for Rimor I guess its more imbalanced than on rk-1, so what will they do, nothing, if everybody on rk-2 goes clan, fc couldnt care less, as long as everybody pay thir bills
But if people STOP paying their bills, because game play got shot to heck, then FC would have to care.Originally posted by Hermy
FC have intended the clans to win the start , thats the way the storyline goes, I mean, early on most GMs was clanaligned even...
As for Rimor I guess its more imbalanced than on rk-1, so what will they do, nothing, if everybody on rk-2 goes clan, fc couldnt care less, as long as everybody pay thir bills
And it's really not a game to WIN, it's a game to PLAY. You should win personal victories within the game of course, but if one side gets annihilated, it's gonna get real boring real fast.
Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega
Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today
No, I'm not back.
How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?
Two things need to happen for NW to be successful on Rimor, and neither has anything to do with Clan numerical superioity.
1) CC needs to be fixed. If I have to fight with a grid looking polygon so that enough people can get into the zone so be it. FC is trying to have their cake and eat it too. I need to see landscape maps and structure but not eye candy like player textures. Remove the eye candy in tower PvP!
2) Low level towers are still underpowered, high level towers are overpowered. Same with mobs. FC lazily designed towers like mobs, a secret they don't want you to know is that every ql250 tower is just a Diamondine Soldier/Obediency Enforcer/Notum Soldier... etc. that can't move and has a different texture. Towers 150 and below need boosting and towers 200+ need nerfing. 30 high level characters should be able to take down ANY tower in under 30 minutes.
That said, there are natural checks and balances in NW that haven't been discussed here. Omni on Rimor is becoming more and more like a horde of angry locusts every day as the game is further imbalanced. This will begin to take an economic toll on Clans very soon.
People who sign up into a game on one side and then switch to the other when the other begins to win are either children in actuality, immature or just not very bright. As has been stated well, there is no real "win" in AO and to be a "fair-weather" side-switching player makes no sense. The point is to have a good opponent. I don't want to play any game against a gimp opponent (or an absent one).
Originally posted by Sanskrit
2) Low level towers are still underpowered, high level towers are overpowered. Same with mobs. FC lazily designed towers like mobs, a secret they don't want you to know is that every ql250 tower is just a Diamondine Soldier/Obediency Enforcer/Notum Soldier... etc. that can't move and has a different texture. Towers 150 and below need boosting and towers 200+ need nerfing. 30 high level characters should be able to take down ANY tower in under 30 minutes.
A good ql 250 base should take 5 hours to take down. It should be a race against time to take down a well designed and generally high quality Ql 250 base. 30 people taking down a ql 250 base [edit- in 30 minutes]? No thanks.
~Chris
Last edited by Megabio; Jan 6th, 2003 at 22:52:23.
Agreed, a full 40 tower base of ql 200-250 towers should take 5 hours for a huge force to take downOriginally posted by Megabio
A good ql 250 base should take 5 hours to take down.
~Chris
... and the controller should be about 30 minutes of that.
Try to view the situation in a disinterested light and I think you may agree.
In any event, greater than an hour for a large force of 180+ players to destroy ANY tower is absurd and not fun. On the flip side if they DO take longer than 30 minutes to destroy they should grant millions of exp and cost 50 million+ to buy or build.
And to be fair... shouldn't a good ql100 base... or a good level 15 base take the same five hours for characters of the appropriate power level? The current scheme of a couple characters the level of those controllers taking out the entire base in under an hour is a good example of why low end bases exchange hands any time anyone gets up the motivation to attack one.Originally posted by Megabio
A good ql 250 base should take 5 hours to take down. It should be a race against time to take down a well designed and generally high quality Ql 250 base. 30 people taking down a ql 250 base [edit- in 30 minutes]? No thanks.
~Chris
Originally posted by Jaesic
And to be fair... shouldn't a good ql100 base... or a good level 15 base take the same five hours for characters of the appropriate power level? The current scheme of a couple characters the level of those controllers taking out the entire base in under an hour is a good example of why low end bases exchange hands any time anyone gets up the motivation to attack one.
No, because the effort required to build ql 250 towers is far greater then that required to build ql 15 or 50 towers or whatever. I agree that lower level towers should be increased in strength, but what I am arguing against was someone saying that a ql 250 base should be able to be taken out in 30 minutes.
~Chris
Nope, pretty easy for any high level agent or trader to build a high level tower. Probably much easier for high levels to build towers generally because of costs. Untwinked lowbies just arent very rich.Originally posted by Megabio
No, because the effort required to build ql 250 towers is far greater then that required to build ql 15 or 50 towers or whatever.
What I said was that no TOWER should take more than 30minutes for a team of 30 180+ players to take out, not that bases should take 30 minutes.Originally posted by Megabio
I agree that lower level towers should be increased in strength, but what I am arguing against was someone saying that a ql 250 base should be able to be taken out in 30 minutes.
~Chris
Let's say you have a 250 controller and 30 ql 200-250 towers in your base. The attacking force is say 20-40 level 180+ players and defenders vary between 20-40 also. The attackers manage to take the initiative. Each tower takes 3-10 minutes to take down. This is about right and as it should be for ql 200-250 towers. Then the attacking force gets to the controller and 30 people firing on it for 30 minutes gets it down to about 60%? ROFL. That is just ridiculous.
maybe for you that effort seems far greater... but how do you think the level 15 that isn't an alt super-twink by someone who already has a character with ql200+ towers built and is building a base to add to the org advantages...Originally posted by Megabio
No, because the effort required to build ql 250 towers is far greater then that required to build ql 15 or 50 towers or whatever. I agree that lower level towers should be increased in strength, but what I am arguing against was someone saying that a ql 250 base should be able to be taken out in 30 minutes.
~Chris
what about the org that is ONLY using a level 25 controller and its surrounding towers... you think they deserve to get wiped out in under 3 hours (2 hrs... or even 30 min.) just because their base is so low level? its not going to be attacked by level 200s... (at least it shouldn't be) so it should stand just as much chance resisting level 25's as a ql200 base resists level 200's.
The disparity between characters and mobs of the same level greatly increases as their level goes up. And, just as was pointed out several times, and quite correctly at that, the same is true for towers. I most wholeheartedly agree that a lvl 50 tower should be just as hard for a group of level 50 players to sack as a lvl 200 tower for a lvl 200 group of players, however, in the case of the lower level tower, you can be significantly higher level(percentage wise atleast) and still attack the tower, where as you can not be higher level than a ql 200 tower.
As for the Omni plight on RK2, well, its not a bright future, but its not as bleak as to be hopeless either. Afterall, Omni was down to nearly 5.0% and is now back up to 6.3%, still succeeds in attacks and defense actions, just not as often as we would like. Yes, a constant destruction of clan towers is certainly causing a vast expenditure of credits, but, the resources of that many clanners isnt likely to be tapped so easily either. Certainly a large org is going to have the ability to bankroll any number of towers they want, afterall, unless you are trying to buy up some rare items, what else are you going to spend all those millions you get from a decent mission on?
I doubt this is the BEST solution to the problem, but it's probably easier than many...
FC could just bend the rules a bit and allow (a few?) clan orgs to go omni and keep their token boards/bases. I know that many would proably refuse to move because they're on the winning side but it would make the game more fun for all of you
/me goes back to rk1 where everything but the lag seems better
I agree with this and it really doesn't make any sense, they loose their token board so unless they are just looking for uber loot and to be on the winning side it doesn't make sense to loose 4% of your xp bonus (7% for board -3% diff between omni/clan tower bounus). I am sure they will get their 1000 token boards going again after a few hundred missions but by that time omni might be winning are the gonna flip back again?Originally posted by Sanskrit
People who sign up into a game on one side and then switch to the other when the other begins to win are either children in actuality, immature or just not very bright. As has been stated well, there is no real "win" in AO and to be a "fair-weather" side-switching player makes no sense. The point is to have a good opponent. I don't want to play any game against a gimp opponent (or an absent one).
~aqua
Kappen Token Trader of Project EDEN LV 217 mind numbing grinding since 1948 well it just seems that long!!!!!
Playing a Trader is like cyber S&M
---------
"if you dont die in mass pvp your not doing it right"
TOTAL LACK OF FAMILY FEELING!
When we realise this, and someone does something to change the current "Me'myself'and'i" situation i feel im in as a omni personell, we only have about 3 towers left.
Omni is allready invaded by clans, and the war is on, but the fact is... This is allready out of hand, and when we really feel outnumbered, i hope the Omni community will stick together again as i remember the fixer's did when they where the lowest on the ladder.
Then, only then, will Omni have a chance...
Now, we are getting pulled up by the roots...
Zubok...
Milk & Moochieez for everyone!Mickbinda: Redbow(zubok) Play's AO from a padded cell,he is a certified maniac
Redbow 215 MP
Illuminati President
Join my zombie army! Sign!!! *evul grin*
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oddfellow
The disparity between characters and mobs of the same level greatly increases as their level goes up. And, just as was pointed out several times, and quite correctly at that, the same is true for towers. I most wholeheartedly agree that a lvl 50 tower should be just as hard for a group of level 50 players to sack as a lvl 200 tower for a lvl 200 group of players, however, in the case of the lower level tower, you can be significantly higher level(percentage wise atleast) and still attack the tower, where as you can not be higher level than a ql 200 tower.
[QUOTE]
Its not just the difference between mobs the same level as the characters at level 50 as compared to 200. The other problem is the players compared to other players at 50 and 200. You get to level 200 and others within the same profession will be about the same as you in power. Maybe some difference between them due to skill or uber item, but mostly the same. At lower levels though there is a huge difference between one character an another because of Buffs implants, armor, weapons and the like.
Everyone complains about the level 50 uber alt Twink. There is no such thing at 140+.
So a QL50 base is balanced so that it takes 30 level 50s 5 hours to take it down. Which set of 30 level 50s do you balance it for? What do you do when someone comes in with 30 level 60s?
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