Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: Broken Promises

  1. #1

    Exclamation Broken Promises

    Greetings,

    On Sunday December 29th Elite Operations conducted an assault on the Lions Den base at Mort, with support elements of the Circle G. The fight lasted over six hours, starting from 3:00pm to 9:00pm CST. We managed to destroy 35-40 towers, however we could not take over the base, not because of Lions Dens guild, but because of the 20-30 clan allies that came to their support. We thank Circle G who helped take down the towers. Despite being flagged and rezz killed by clan in HOPE, they fought for the entire battle and we thank every neutral that chose to fight with us that day.


    Elite Operations does not attack unless provoked. Outlined below are our reasons for the attack on Lions Den:

    1. Lions Den, with assistance from the Anacarim Iron League, conquered Elite Operations’ outpost in Mort.

    2. When contacted by Sware, the General of Lions Den, he conveyed to us that the attack was a grand mistake and they wanted to negotiate peace. Sware insisted that it was Omni misdirection that was to blame, however when asked who the responsible Omni individual(s) was he refused to give us names.

    3. Sware offered to compensate us for the loss of land by assisting in an attack on an Omni outpost. We refused to be a party to his war, and insisted upon monetary compensation instead. He balked at our request and said that he would get back to us.

    4. For over 3 weeks our diplomat Psikie was given the run around by Lions Den, it is clear they do not intend to honor their self-proclaimed desire for peace.

    5. Lions Den’s tag and website declare that they are neutral friendly and honorable, however as their actions plainly reveal they do not live up to their statements.

    It is clear that Lions Den is not an honorable guild by any definition, and their members are using spurious logic to support their claim to our land. This is reminiscent of the 1938 Munich accord between Nazi Germany and other European powers on old Terra, where Hitler denied his intentions to conquer Europe. I have more respect to the Omni Meister (Omni-Pol) and Argulace (MoK) as they took full responsibility for their actions when they took over a neutral outpost.

    To Lions Den: Immediately remove all mention of “honorable” from your clan info; end your deceit; apologize unconditionally; claim full responsibility for your actions; and honor your word. Until Elite Operations is satisfied, we are at war.


    Sumokan
    President of Elite Operations

  2. #2

    Informal reply.

    In agreement with Sware, I also view the unprovoked attack on the base in Mort as a mistake. This took place fairly early on during the NW launch and I for one wasn't present for the operation.

    I am fully aware of the offer of reparations to Elite Operations in the form of a joint attack on an Omni LCA and the offer of said land to EO. As you stated, this offer was rejected and a monetary compensation was demanded instead. To make demands in response to a generous offer is to assume you are in a position to make demands.

    The discussion we've had regarding the offer of land to EO was a real one, and even turned into a bigger idea of offering land to other neutral guilds. The idea being that it would show an interest in the well being of the neutrals and of course take away land from our true enemy and hand it over to someone who might better benefit form it. I'm sorry you felt that this offer wasn't proper, as there is little room for compromise between "land" and "monetary compensation".

    "Well, how about a lower ql peice of land and some creds for good measure?"

    As you can see, that just doesn't sound right and I'm sure neither of our parties would be happy with it.

    In response to your war with us: it is your call as a organization to make. But I'm not so sure the rest of your (I'm tempted to call the neutrals a third faction, but I'll not go that far as of yet) neutral brethren appreciate your lumping of them into your personal vendetta. You see, doing so assumes that they are on your side on this. This could create a bigger conflict then you desire, and you may want to rethink your language concerning this issue.

    To assume that the Lion's Den (and of course those associated with us) are neutral un-friendly becuase of the ONE attack on a neutral organization, would be the same as us saying publically that Elite Operations are OT in disguise because of your ONE assault on a clan organization (Am I right in that statement, or have there been other incidents involving you and assaults on clan bases?). This is not something I'm willing to say due to the fact that I want to respect you as neutrals and not RK's third faction.

    Now, the last thing is that I'm curious about the cryptic statement of Omni-Pol and MoK and their "...full responsibility for their actions when they took over a neutral outpost.". One could assume that they admitted to doing so? Doubt it, it's not something that is a mystery. Did they give the land back? Did they agree to a monetary compensation for the land they took? If so, would that be to say that the neutrals are for sale?

    Not trying to be cynical, just wondering what the difference there is as I do not know the story.

    Things will happen as they will. We offered compensation. It was refused. Your counter-proposal was not proper in our opinion. We respect your attack as a way to keep your pride. The attack was costly and we accept it as our dues. Revenge is had and we may still steady our hand. But be advised, any further operations against us or anyone in the name of revenge will not be seen as revenge but as a neutral offensive action.

    Regards,
    Mon

  3. #3

    What?

    "the 1938 Munich accord between Nazi Germany"

    That was almost 30,000 years ago, on Earth. What does this have to do with us?

  4. #4
    I'd advise sucking up your losses, Ladykali. At some point we're going to realize that neutrals already have more than enough bases in clan territory. That and you don't really represent significant opposition. Hmmm.
    Kennan - President, Arcane Legacy
    Asmoran - Retired (Former President, Synergy Factor)

  5. #5
    /salute
    Velveeta - The best atrox doctor on Rubi-Ka 1!
    Aiboforcen - A change of pace..
    Shikhi - The return!

    Digital Gunfire - Music to level by.

  6. #6

    peace offer? LOL!!!!!

    Mon, the "offer" of "helping" EO take over an Omni base of similar specifications would be using EO as a pawn in your your war with Omni. Is there really any wonder why we refused? You call that an offer for peace? If EO were a clan faction things would be very different, but you seem to forget that we are neutral and have no quarrel with Omni nor Clan- the exception being individual groups whom attacks us and our fellow neutrals without provocation.

  7. #7

    Re: Informal reply.

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Monrakashi



    In response to your war with us: it is your call as a organization to make. But I'm not so sure the rest of your (I'm tempted to call the neutrals a third faction, but I'll not go that far as of yet) neutral brethren appreciate your lumping of them into your personal vendetta. You see, doing so assumes that they are on your side on this. This could create a bigger conflict then you desire, and you may want to rethink your language concerning this issue.



    Do you honestly think your unprovoked attack and destruction of our base in Mort has won you any friends in the neutral community? I think it is your clan that needs to rethink its actions.


    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Monrakashi

    To assume that the Lion's Den (and of course those associated with us) are neutral un-friendly becuase of the ONE attack on a neutral organization, would be the same as us saying publically that Elite Operations are OT in disguise because of your ONE assault on a clan organization (Am I right in that statement, or have there been other incidents involving you and assaults on clan bases?). This is not something I'm willing to say due to the fact that I want to respect you as neutrals and not RK's third faction.




    Oh I am not assuming anything Mon, your clan has already proven to be hostile towards neutrals when you took over the EO base in Mort (unprovoked), tried to pass it off as a "mistake", refused to give the land back, and refuse to offer fair compensation for the land you took. Though it may be one attack, the way you've handled the situtation afterwards says a lot about how your guild regard neutrals. Funny how you suggest calling us "OT in disguise", we've also been accused of being "Clanners in disguise". But I digress, now where were we....


    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Monrakashi


    Now, the last thing is that I'm curious about the cryptic statement of Omni-Pol and MoK and their "...full responsibility for their actions when they took over a neutral outpost.".


    I think what Sumo meant is that at the very least they took responsibility for their actions, and made no excuses, which is why he has more respect for those individuals when compared to your leaders. But I cannot speak for Sumo, if you want clarification feel free to ask him.


    *edited for some clarification
    Last edited by Lady Kali; Jan 2nd, 2003 at 15:50:25.

  8. #8
    Re think your last setence Kali. We have nothing to fear from. It was all in good will that we attempt to clear things up in the ways of diplomacy. If you take this further you shall see that we are not mistaken. So chill out and consider the opportunities please.
    Lion Strimple aka Sware

  9. #9
    Once again, I only speak for myself and I'm not convinced of your good itentions. If you want to resume diplomatic negotiations you may speak to Sumo and our representitive Psikie.

  10. #10

    neutrals at "war" ha!

    There used to be a time when one didn't have a choice to be neutral. You were an Omni slave working in a mine or you were a rebel struggling to survive on your own. I doubt many of the neutrals ever had to soil themselves in the mines for the corporation. Maybe you'll pick a side the day they decide that there's good notum deposits under your hometown and they destory it to build a mining facility. Maybe you'll pick a side when an Atrox you know is left to die in a mining disaster. Until then, you don't have any rights on this planet, you haven't earned any of them. Open your eyes. You live free and neutral because of what WE did, the corporation would own the entire planet if it wasn't for us.

    If you have no place in this war, then you don't need to control the land we fought to keep in Mort. Join the clans and we'll accept you with open arms, otherwise you'll just be getting the way.

  11. #11
    However misguided what dantes said was true.

    29202 - A few loose coalitions of workers in the north secretly begin to call themselves clans. They recruit new members daily from the increasingly dissatisfied Omni-Tek workforce. The clan-affiliated workers continue to operate their mines under Omni-Tek management, but they keep more than one third of the mined notum, and initiate contact with other corporations to offer up the notum for sale or trade.

    48 years before the first Neutrals appeared.

    29250 - The first "neutrals" appear when Omni-Tek employees - as well as clan members - abandon their affiliations and settle in non-political zones. Fearing more ICC interventions, OT authorities turn a blind eye to these neutrals.

    I am not one that is Anti-Neutral. But honestly dantes has a very good point. You live on lands that were won with the blood of the Clans under a Clan banner. I know it says:

    "The first "neutrals" appear when Omni-Tek employees - as well as clan members - abandon their affiliations"

    So that means that Neutrals have also betrayed the Clans and moved onto lands won by the Clans and claimed it for their own. The Clans did not complain when the Neutrals built cities in the North because some of you came from within our ranks.

    So he was partly misguided and partly correct.

    I am not hatemongering, but in the simplest form according to the past. Under the Neutral banner you have no right to own lands in the Northern Clan Regions.

    I have no problem with Neutrals being around. I have many many neutral friends. I just thought this was a very interesting statement on his behalf. And I like to dissect things and think about them. So dont take this the wrong way.

    You must understand your adversary before you can defeat him.

    ((Maybe this information will help you better understand their point of view. And give you some ideas to politically defend yourself.))
    Last edited by Fixerben; Jan 2nd, 2003 at 21:39:23.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  12. #12
    Why not just offer to give EO the land back? After all, if you've made a mistake then it's only proper to make the mistake right to the best of your ability... granted, it would come at considerable monetary loss to Lion's Den due to lost towers, but that's really a feeble defense given EO's loss of towers when you mistakenly took their base. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

  13. #13
    Lion's Den has the support of Synergy Factor. Please let us know if there are any other neutral bases that look appealing.
    Kennan - President, Arcane Legacy
    Asmoran - Retired (Former President, Synergy Factor)

  14. #14

    OK

    Hmm you make some good points Benja....but :-

    June 23 29222

    The first Rubi-Kan civil war ends when the last of the independent groups of former Omni-Tek employees known as the clans surrender their weapons and vehicles to OT forces.

    ----

    July 04 29223

    The clans are granted a limited lease on land from Omni-Tek in return for an end to all future armed hostilities and the continued cooperation with Omni-Tek's mining operations. This is the Clans Rights Treaty - the true birth of Rubi-Kan independence

    (Note the use of the word "limited")

    ----

    29227

    Construction begins on the city of Tir inside clan-run territories. Plans call for Tir to be the political capital of the clans; a safe harbour and home to a democratically chosen clan council.

    (clan-run territories...doesn't say which...and that brings me to)

    ----

    29250

    The first "neutrals" appear when Omni-Tek employees - as well as clan members - abandon their affiliations and settle in non-political zones. Fearing more ICC interventions, OT authorities turn a blind eye to these neutrals.

    (non-political zones....which means these are not the "clan-run" territories mentioned previously or they would be "political" zones)

    ----

    Yes the clans did fight omni...yes they came almost to the city walls of Omni 1....but they were beaten back and in the end surrendered. Dantes is correct in one sense that clans fought for the land we live on, but it is incorrect for Benja to say that the clans won them...they lost.

    While I'm on the subject of Dantes....

    "You were an Omni slave working in a mine or you were a rebel struggling to survive on your own. I doubt many of the neutrals ever had to soil themselves in the mines for the corporation."

    Fool....we were all omni at one time....just some of us chose to walk away from the clans rather than throw in with the Council of Truth and their weak commands and ideals. We neutrals are of the clans and of omni as well...nice paradox don't you think?

    Now we wait for the another civil war...if it hasn't already started that is.

    Your move Benja

    ((Have to say political arguments are really hampered by the limited information given by the timeline...but what the hell, it's something to do ))
    Last edited by Altared; Jan 3rd, 2003 at 02:51:34.
    Altared (aka Alteredstate)

    ------
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

    ***

    If You Can’t Dazzle Them With Brilliance, Riddle Them With Bullets.
    ------

  15. #15
    er..What's the point of having cake if you can't eat it?

    Neo

  16. #16
    Either you are Neutral, or you are a third side in the conflict for control of the planet.

    You can not be both, so choose. And if you choose to be a third side in the conflict, don't complain when we treat you like one.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  17. #17

    hmmmm

    Actually Jynne I would rather there were 3 factions (Omni, Clans, Independants) and Neutrals.

    I don't want to be clan...why? Too many clans are fighting for personal gain and not the 'freedom' they often shout about....not all I admit...but too many.

    Once the clans strove for freedom....now many have changed. Take this simple message that some clans seem to send out...

    "We do not want the Neutrals on Clan lands. We do not want the Neutrals mining notum."

    Now change "Neutral" to "Clans" and change "Clan" to "Omni Tech Corporation"....sound familiar?

    Not all the clans have forgotten the thing they fight for...but many have replaced it with notum....and therefore I feel have no right to call themselves clan.

    I don't want to be Omni...why? Omni Tech is a monster without a face....while many are good people it also harbours those that live to kill and nothing else.

    Live like this, do this, do that, dress like this, do not do this....I can't live under that kind of regulation...some would say oppression.

    Do I fight for personal gain? Hell yes....but at least I don't hide behind words like freedom...I am what I am..no more, no less...and all can see it.

    I respect many among the clans and omni...those that mean what they say and don't pretend to be something that their not.

    I don't know you Jynne....maybe you are one I would respect...maybe not...only your actions can make that choice for me.
    Altared (aka Alteredstate)

    ------
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

    ***

    If You Can’t Dazzle Them With Brilliance, Riddle Them With Bullets.
    ------

  18. #18
    Alteredstate, the problem I have is with some, not all, Neutrals. Many Neutrals claim to "be on their own side" and, generally speaking, act as if they were a third faction. Some other Neutrals really do "just stay out of it."

    Either way, that's fine.

    However, some of those Neutrals who act like a faction, then complain about being treated as such by either or both of the other factions. Most commonly, they claim that they are neutrals and should therefore be given special consideration and tolerance out of respect for their neutrality.

    That is, simply put, hypocrasy. If you are acting like a third faction, you are not neutral - you're on a side, your own side. You don't deserve any special consideration for that. So those neutrals who are acting like a third faction - specifically the ones such as those who have been launching attacks on either or both factions' bases - have no basis for complaint when they are treated by others like a third faction.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  19. #19

    Your not seeing the big picture.

    Well you don't need a history book to know common sense. If it wasn't for us, OmniTek would have mining facilities sprawled all over the face of the planet. You've abandoned the fight for freedom, do you honestly think that if you take no part in this war that things will just settle themselves? After OmniTek's cash-cow planet here is milked dry you'll be living your peaceful neutral life in the bottom of an impact crater. How does that sound?

  20. #20
    Jynne:-

    Agree with you totally...if there are neutrals who act like a third faction they should be treated as such. No complaints there.....as long as you understand that we're all lumped in under one banner "Neutral". Some of us do not want it this way (which is why I'd prefer the additional "Independant" or something similar faction).

    Dantes:-

    Would this "Impact Crater" be any different if it is the clans that suck RK dry? I have no arguments with those clans that fight for "freedom"...I have problems with those that say they do...and don't. How can I trust someone who says one thing and then does another?

    I think the clans would do well to scrutinise their comrades....afterall it is they who give you a bad name.
    Altared (aka Alteredstate)

    ------
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

    ***

    If You Can’t Dazzle Them With Brilliance, Riddle Them With Bullets.
    ------

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •