Division9

[______________Kakeru]

Hi Barron, I have went and visit Div. 9's web site and found out recruitment is not open; therefore I wrot an e-mail, I got from the recruitment page, to describe the detail. I'm lv 28 Bureaucrat in RK1.

Hope to hear from you soon

[______________Barron]

ok..thanks Kakeru.

Since the emails dont come to me directly, Im not sure how long it may take to get a response...however please do keep an eye out on our front page, as the Academy should have a few spots opening up shortly...when you see it reopen, also apply through the site as well...the response from that is usually much quicker..

[______________Kakeru]

Thx Barron
I just got a reply from General Barzillai Craddock (Ret)
Division9 RSGE Recruitment Department and he (or she) says that the recruitment will be open whithin 2 weeks.

[_____Poweredge|vault]

I couldn't advocate a better guild than Div9 for people that want to enjoy themselves. I used to be a member until myself and a few other higher level Div9 members left for greener pastures.

Everyone there is pleasant, helpful, fun, and they pretty much cover every aspect of AO that you can imagine.

An all round great bunch of peeps.

[______________Barron]

*BUMP*

[Skymarshal]

Next day, Ill bump it again... keep an eye on the website for recrutment opertunities... they do fill fast.

[______________Barron]

The Division9 Academy is OPEN once more...hurry and get your apps in before all the spots fill up!

[Newsnet]

Yeah if you like rules and bureaucrazy Div9 is certainly the guild for you. I was in Div9 for 6 months before I quit last week. I had some fun but not much to be honest. There are some nice people in Div9 but in general the guild totally lacks a friendly atmosphere.

You're forbidden to talk about anything off topic in guildchat. Off topic can be equipment, latest patch, RL stuff or whatever.

An enormous hierarchy of ranks which doesnt mean much anyway since very few of the leaders bother to arrange something and people just hang out with other people close to their level.

All this hype in Div9 about ranks have in my opinion led to this guild being very unsocial. Not long ago a member quit because he was tired of never being greeted in GC when he came and said hello. One of our officers ordered us all to be more friendly but it didnt solve the underlying problem.

I think Div9's massive rank hierarchy would be better suitable in a MMORPG without levels so that officers could order people around on the battlefield and not just yell on them on guildchat that your conversation is off topic. :P

Well this was only my personal opinion. I know many like this type of guild setup. I didn't... Guilds in my opinion should consist of friends hanging out having fun. Maybe that make me a bad roleplayer in your eyes. :P

[______________Barron]

Schara, please keep your personal opinions out of recruitment threads..the Org Politics forum is a better place for that.

Unfortunately Ive been offline for a couple of weeks, so I havent been able to see what's been going on lately...however..

As we are an RP guild, we do try to keep the OOC stuff to a minimum...especially talking about RL issues..most RP guilds will have similar rules as well.

The chat guidelines are also still in a state of flux..and as such nothing has been permanently agreed upon..we're just trying out new things as situations arise.

I for one have never been a huge fan of over-regulating the chat..some of the other officers are...and if I think someone is being too harsh on the chat regs, I say so...but this is something that will get worked out in the near future.

[Newsnet]

I'm sorry Barron. Since I'm no longer in Div9 I don't have to follow your orders. :P Your posts here is too a large degree propaganda. Probably not an odd thing in a thread like this but anyway. I'm just making sure the people thinking about joining know what Div9 is in practice.

Maybe it sounded harsch but that's really how I feel and I know I'm not alone since many have quit Div9 for similar reasons. Some people may be joining and is unaware about your extremly strict guidelines. Others may love your setup.

My advise to you (the leadership in general) is: Start playing the game and interact with your members in the game and don't worry so much about rules. I've met Tredge one time in 6 months in the game. Usually I only read about him on stratics or something.

I blame Funcoms level restrictions too. In a game where it would be meaningful for characters in different stages in their development to team up, a hierarchy like Div9's might be fun. As it is, the level 120+ never meet with the 70's. The 70's never meet with the 50's etc etc....

I'll give you a prime example of this. On our little event to 4holes last week the newly appointed Lt in SF told me to leave his team because I was too low level. If you look at our rank chart I was supposed to be his 2nd in command since I was sergeant in SF. That's just one example how ranks is totally unnecessary in a gamle like AO. All that matters is levels even if you pretend otherwise. (Btw this Lt also was the reason one other SF was kicked from the guild a couple of weeks ago. As in all large guilds there's a lot of nasty politics going on behind the shiny propagada scene)

[______________Barron]

Schara, we all do play (my offline time lately was forced on me and in no way under my control..that is being fixed in the next couple of days hopefully).

Tredge is online quite a lot...perhaps not at the same times you were though...due to his job, his time online is usually later in the evenings US time...and when Im able to be on our schedules end up being about the same. We also have members in leadership positions, thanks to the most recent changes, that cover Europe and Asia as well...

Yes, I agree that a lot of times the level restrictions on grouping is a total pain in the tuckus...but unfortunately it's something we have to deal with if we're talking about grouping to hunt (to get xp). Im not sure what the nature of the 4Holes event was, but if it wasnt to hunt, then the XP wouldnt have mattered and the Lt. you mentioned was out of line in his request...

The unit as a whole is constantly in a state of flux, and many of the problems you've mentioned are being looked into (believe it or not). Unfortunately, there's no magic wand we can wave and fix everything instantly...some problems are easier to fix than others, and hence get done faster..

As for the /org kicking of the SF member, Im not sure what situation this was, but if you could email me some details, I'll take a look at it myself (just use my email in my siggy)...but usually /org kicks only come after a LOT of debate among the command staff..and a lot of times a lot of screaming back and forth too...so while it may have seemed like this 1 person's opinion caused the kick, it was probably just the last straw in a long line of previous offenses...

And just for the record my previous post wasnt an order..it was a request...we try hard to keep this kind of thing OUT of the recruitment forum..there are better places for stuff like this...if anyone applies for membership, from what Ive noticed, they've already done a lot of research into us (and other guilds too). Keep in mind that we have designed Div9 as a paramilitary organization...so yes, there are going to be some guidelines that should be adhered to...some, like you, may think their strict..others may not...but again, especially regarding the chat stuff, the only stuff we actively try to keep off the channel are the blatant OOC conversations, and also any extended conversations that would probably be better discussed on a more private channel. When Im around, I never discourage friendly chat amongst everyone..I actively encourage it as a matter of fact. As long as things stay IC, that's our main goal..or at least as IC as possible..

[Skymarshal]

Schara is right... In the respect that we do have rules and regulations. We dont let our members run around doing whatever they want (i.e Break the rules set forth by Phillip Ross). We ask that everyone acts in a professional manner. This guild is an RP guild, above and beyond anything else. As for you not seeing tredge... well i dont see alot of people case we are in different parts of the world. That is a simple fact based on timezones. I hope that the people joining up, and reading this thread, consider that we are not a lawless people, we have rules... but last time i checked everyone was pretty darn friendly. Have a great day, and enjoy Rubika.

*salutations

[Tredge]

I'd like to elaborate a little on what Barron's already said...

Division 9 has a few features about it that help to distinguish it:

1) Heirarchy, rules and organization/ranks

2) Large, mature, self-starting membership

3) Involvement in storyline and politics

4) Omni-Tek loyalty in the stricter sense

5) Fun!

As the player-base goes, these aspects put together appeal to a very small minority. For the people who are here and enjoy this kind of organization, we have as much fun as anyone in AO possibly can. Division 9 is run with these players in mind. For those who don't like playing this way, we try to be as up-front as possible that our way is not for everybody. For some, you can only explain so much until they have to see it for themselves. And that's when troubles like these come out.

The way Division 9 is run brings us success. We want to see everything AO has to offer, that is one of our foremost goals. And to do that we've decided that Division 9 will be organized.

People leave Division 9 all the time. We don't like to see them leave, but that's the nature of it. There are a wide variety of guilds people can choose from and we would never hinder anybody from looking for what they want if they don't find it here. Given that there are so many good guilds out there with a wide variety of experiences to offer, we don't see the need to change our methods to be more like any other guild. We market ourselves to players looking for the sort of experiences we offer.

I will never change Division 9's core system for someone who wasn't getting what they wanted out of it. It will never panic me if we start hemmorhaging in our membership if people mass-leave as either a protest, or some other indication they weren't happy here. Our model is what distinguishes us. It is what attracts the players we like to play with, and is part of the reason Division 9 is as large as it is and has stayed that way. I foresee that we will be successful for a long time to come. But I also predict that if we changed our core systems we would quickly fade into mediocrity and disperse. As long as I'm head of Division 9 I will do to the best of my abilities everything I can to ensure that doesn't happen.

I could detail all of little things that go wrong, the little problems, but it wouldn't be worthwhile. There are two threads on these forums that cover that sort of thing. I'm sure any leader of a guild could read them and recognize that these issues are in the nature of running an organization. We are most definitely not all things to all people. I personally think that when someone comes and kvetches about what they didn't like about us after they leave says alot about why they didn't fit in here in the first place.

We are proud of what we've made, this organization of ours, and we're protective of it. In short, we'll play our way, you play yours.

[Andross]

Greetings President Tredge.

I hope you have received my email, regarding the honorary award for your member "Railgunz". If so, please send a short reply with the decision, so that I can coordinate our officers with a ceremony if one should be held.

Just so you know, many people admire the structure of your guild and how well it functions in situations where it is needed. Recently, I have always called for Division 9 assistance in all military affairs - given one of your officers on my friends list was available for contact.

I consider Division 9 as being a successful and well-lead military organization which is certainly appealing to many players who are OT employees. Seeing that Division 9 has this detailed structure, so everyone has his or her place in the hierarchy and space to advance. This is probably what some guilds lack, and I congratulate you for what you have achieved with Division 9 so far.

Best regards,

[Newsnet]

I personally think that when someone comes and kvetches about what they didn't like about us after they leave says alot about why they didn't fit in here in the first place.

Quite simple Tredge. Questioning the guild authority might get you /org kicked. Pretty much what happened to Atremis. His version on what happened to him is -very- different from the persons that fired him.

Anyway, I don't want to get into a flame war here but since you felt the need to make an offensive remark like that I too felt I had to reply once more.

Basically, to all you people who are considering joining I'm just telling you that Div9 is not as fun as it appears to be on paper. Events and storyline participation doesn't happen often and people just hang with friends in their own level range. The difference from any other mega guild is that you're not allowed to speak freely on the GC.

There are some very nice and generous people in Div9 and this certainly is no criciticm against the members. I'm just stating my picture of Div9's organizational culture so that all these new people don't waste their time on a guild that do not suit them.

Maybe you shape up now after this little public criticism and then its all for the good right? :P

[_____Poweredge|vault]

I'll jump in at this point as I was once a member of Division9, and may be able to shed some light on the "No Mans Land" that this thread lacks.

Div9 does have problems, the first and most important one is it's size. The sheer volume of legitimate guild chat is why it is restrained, but it means that people may miss important announcements if they occur.

Secondly, the structure and command of Div9 does get a little buckled at times, but only during times of real stress. This is forgiveable as it's not easy to keep hundreds of members on the same page, when half the command structure may be half way around the world asleep. FC do have a knack of putting events on purely for US prime time.

Thirdly, higher level members will get a massive number of requests for help from lower members. This is part of the reason that I left to go to Praetorian Guard, as the people that I played with were all in the high-end of Div9 level bracket. Noer at one time was under severe pressure just to provide wrangles for the whole organisation.

Fourthly, because it's large, recruitment can let the occasional idiot through to the inside. This has meant that people have been kicked. In 99% of cases, the kicking has been justified, but on the odd occasion someone has been kicked for what I felt were unjustified reasons.

On the up-side tho...

1. Div9 has, does, and will continue to play a massive part in the events surrounding AO, and in many instances are architects of events. They do provide a great home for the RP'er.

2. It's command structure and reward system for being involved is fair and just. If you help them, they will reward you.

3. Div9 does a very good job of keeping the trash out. Most, if not all of the people I spoke to while there were helpful, considerate and fun to be with.

Lastly, for it's size, Div9 is a fantastic guild. Of that there is no doubt. My time there was very enjoyable, but I left because I wanted something more relaxing and I wanted to be with my friends.

Barzillai, Founding and now Tredge are all doing a great job, and long may they continue.

[______________Barron]

Schara, just an FYI, the situation with Atremis goes so much deeper than you probably know...I had a feeling that was who you were talking about in your post earlier...and his situtation had been kicked around the command boards for quite some time before it finally culminated in his being /org kicked.

In that specific example, you only were witness to the very end of something that had been going on for a couple of months...and you're only getting it from Atremis' point of view..and not the point of view of the rest of us who went back and forth for what seemed like ages..

It's always been Div9's policy (and it's one that I will fight to the death to keep), that if you have a problem with someone in some sort of command position, you should always bring it to their superiors' attention...Honestly, we dont mind it when someone's authority gets questioned...however, we do mind it when an issue seemingly gets resolved on both sides, yet one side deems it necessary to ignore that resolution and air out the dirty laundry for all to hear...

For me personally, and I know for Tredge too, if anyone has a problem with someone, we want it brought to our attention so we can try to resolve the problem...keeping in mind that our resolution may not always be the one the "wronged" party feels is warranted...Tredge and I both work our butts off to keep everyone as happy as possible...we know we cant always do that, but we do try...

And Schara...speaking freely on the GC IS encouraged..however, OOC chatter is what we are trying to discourage...As we are an RP guild, we dont feel that RL and OOC talk is appropriate for the GC, and along a similar vein, there are quite a few conversations Ive witnessed that probably would have been better off either in tells or a private/team chat channel...If, when I get back, I find that the GC is being as heavily regulated as you claim (to the point that even friendly chat is discouraged), you can be sure Im gonna be cracking some skulls...

***UPDATE***
Schara, as I was not present when all this went down with Atremis, Im not sure exactly what all happened..but I did just get an update, and one key thing that wasnt mentioned was that Atremis was NOT org kicked...he voluntarily left the guild due to mounting evidence against him for various reason (which I cannot go into in a forum such as this...if you'd like more info, please feel free to email me any time though)

[seloth]

point of fact:
Atremis self org'ed kicked.
This was when she was informed that charges of misconduct had been leveled at her.

I did not want to get into this thread, but please everyone needs to have facts and not he said she said.

I was neither present during the "misconduct" nor the following confrontation, but i do have the logs of the conversations that lead to the charge.

No you may not see it, and if my word is not good enough then I am sorry you who are reading this do not know me that well.

Lyda Carnalla, Colonel
ARES Director of Operations, Division 9 RSGE

p.s. just enjoy the game in your own way and let me enjoy it mine.

[Andross]

May I see the logs please?
No?
Ok.. Ok... it was just a question
*hurries away*

[_____Poweredge|vault]

Got to admit... Railz saved my bacon the other day with a handy bit of NP work, and I'd like to thank everyone at Div9 for looking in every bag they had for a QL160 to QL170 CCR. Your time is appreciated.