Looking for screenshots for Armour Table

[Bima]

I'm adding photos to the Armour Table at http://www.dd.org/~tale/ao/armour.html and would like a little assistance with getting pictures of the various types, since I currently don't have much time to play and do it myself.

If you have a complete set of a particular armour type that you can equip, please take a screenshot wearing it -- and only it, no visible cloaks, and if it doesn't have coverage for a particular area, like lack of martial arts gloves and helmet, then wear nothing visible in those slots either. Shots of front, side and back would be excellent. Having a weapon equipped is ok, but try to stand with it at your side so the full armour can be seen.

You can use full screen shots and I'll crop them to size, or you can crop them yourself to roughly 155 x 375. You can then send to me, tale@dd.org, either links to the shots or send them as attachments, I have no special preference.

Thanks!

[Dyna18]

Check this site: http://www.geocities.com/rick_barkhouse/ao/

[Dyna18]

1 comment on your table.
You calculate all numbers down to QL1.

But the trouble is, that not all armor types are available on each quality. Dragon armor is only available in ql100 for instance, and also mantis armor is not there for ql200 lookers.

So it might be interesting as well to calculate the stats for the highest ql available for each armor, because now Dragon armor looks really uber, while in reality, it's much more closer to the other ql200 armor people wear.


a 2nd tip I have is too make your table as clear and easy to view as possible. Watch out that you don't clutter it too much.

[Bima]

Thanks for your comments, but I am having a little difficulty trying to see how to make use of them.

The footnote for Dragon Armor describes what the situation is with it being QL100 and thus having such high factors; if you think I did an inadequate job explaining it, please let me know.

And actually most values were calculated at QL200, not QL1, and where it does not cause the same factor at each end of its availability range (like Dragon Armor and the ICC Cloaks) I have tried to make note. If you are aware of another situation that is not indicated, let me know and I'll do what I can to correct it.

Also, while several armors are not available across the entire QL1-QL200 range, trying to indicate that for all of them would add even more of the clutter you are having trouble with. I too don't like the clutter in the "Specials" column, especially with the armor that provides several specials on each different piece, but I think the information is important to have and I don't see how I could condense it much more.

[Dyna18]

Originally posted by Whatsamatta
Thanks for your comments, but I am having a little difficulty trying to see how to make use of them.

The footnote for Dragon Armor describes what the situation is with it being QL100 and thus having such high factors; if you think I did an inadequate job explaining it, please let me know.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the footnote.
Read my comment below about what I tried to say.

And actually most values were calculated at QL200, not QL1, and where it does not cause the same factor at each end of its availability range (like Dragon Armor and the ICC Cloaks) I have tried to make note. If you are aware of another situation that is not indicated, let me know and I'll do what I can to correct it.

The trouble is this: The value in the table is clearly the value of the lowest ql possible (which would be ql1). That it was calculated by taking the ql200 AC values does not matter in this case.

What I tried to say was, that for special items that are only available at a certain ql (not 200) it is more interesting to have the values compared at the highest available QL.

For most armor types that would mean multiplying it by 200, but for the special ones that would differ (like multiplying it with 100 for dragon armor).

When you have done this, you have a far more accurate table of armor compared that is actually in game. Because in this table Dragon armor seems really uber, while in reality it's not that uber if you can wear other ql200 armor pieces.

Also, while several armors are not available across the entire QL1-QL200 range, trying to indicate that for all of them would add even more of the clutter you are having trouble with. I too don't like the clutter in the "Specials" column, especially with the armor that provides several specials on each different piece, but I think the information is important to have and I don't see how I could condense it much more.

My clutter comment was not directed at the specials information column, but at the entire page and table.

A suggestion that might make this table easier to read, is to have each row the size of 1 line. Now the hight of each line differs a lot (this is just a suggestion though, maybe there are better ways to make this table easier to read).

BTW the reason why I'm replying here, is that a few weeks ago I had the idea myself to extend the orignal table with special armor. Never got around it though, but I have looked a lot into the old one.

[Dyna18]

I did some more calculations on the armor, and those underlined what most already subcontiously knew about dragon armor.

It's only the Body that has the good stats. If you would calculate the body only compared to ql200 armor it would get a nice 12 point score. Making it indeed the best armor in game.

If you would do the same for the Dragon Boots, it would get a score of 8, placing it below 'Senpai (Hanshi) Primus Decus' even.
Off-course in reality the boots are better then senpai, because of the specials and the nicely evened out AC. But I would not trade my carbonum boots for a dragon armor pair.

So to tigh it back to your table. Your table shows Dragon Armor as absolute the best, while in reality that's not the case... If you compare it to ql200 armor it's only the dragon body that holds up. The other pieces are somewhat less. That was the point I wanted to make.

[Bima]

Originally posted by Dyna18
When you have done this, you have a far more accurate table of armor compared that is actually in game. Because in this table Dragon armor seems really uber, while in reality it's not that uber if you can wear other ql200 armor pieces.

Ok, I understand what you are saying better now, but we will have to agree to disagree in that case. You are coming at this at the focus of someone who is interested in QL200 armor, but I don't think that's the only valid use of the table, and thus I don't think the table's accuracy can be called into question on that point. (If there is an accuracy mistake someone finds with the raw numbers, I will be happy to correct it.)

For its level and requirements, Dragon Armor is really uber. The fact that it is not a whole ton more uber than QL200 (and QL201+) armors is kind of irrelevant, and it still is better than all those other QL200 armors in quantifiable ways, even if not as much would appear based on the "TOTAL" column, justifying its number one position in the table in my mind.

Take another example: Borg armor (the old stuff, not Cyborg Death Squad). It comes in only one QL, but at that QL it is excellent armor. Is it better than DeCranum's, which actually appears a couple of rows lower on the table? Of course not! However a level 71 character can't even wear DeCranum's, but he could wear the borg armor, and it is definitely better than almost all other QL77 armor.

People can't just look at the table and say "I want whatever the #1 spot is". They will have to factor in their own individual considerations for their character level, their skills, what bonuses they might want from armor, and how realistic it is they could acquire the armor. There's just no way for a static table to take all of that into account.

Not all of us just want to look at a table and have it make a decision for us. Doing that leads to a cookie-cutter population running around DeCranum and Albrecht. (Sound familiar?) Some of us want to actually look at all the data and consider a range of choices.

[Bima]

Originally posted by Dyna18
It's only the Body that has the good stats. If you would calculate the body only compared to ql200 armor it would get a nice 12 point score. Making it indeed the best armor in game.

If you would do the same for the Dragon Boots, it would get a score of 8, placing it below 'Senpai (Hanshi) Primus Decus' even.

I believe the footnote clearly states that the Feet and Sleeves have the worst armor class factor of the entire set. Of course, armor class factor is not the only aspect of the Feet, as you observe ...

Off-course in reality the boots are better then senpai, because of the specials and the nicely evened out AC. But I would not trade my carbonum boots for a dragon armor pair.

And that's great, it is an independent choice made on your own, without a table making a choice for you. Do you believe everyone should come to the exact same conclusion as you? If so, how do you think that should be indicated in a static table such as the one I am maintaining?

[Dyna18]

Hmmm I just thought that this all sounded maybe a bit negative.
That was not my intention. I write this comments because I like the work you have done, and I wanted to help you make it easier to use for others.

Another comment:
About the Living Cybor Armor footnote: Living Cyber armor pieces also drops off the mobs in the basement of Subway.

(I was wearing a full set of living cyber armor on my NT from L20 till 40).

Second the partymixer quest is only doable for neutral players. Especially the quest for the body piece is what I would call the quest from hell!

I did complete it, but I wouldn't recommend anyone to do the same (with a L25 character that is)

[Bima]

Originally posted by Dyna18
Another comment:
About the Living Cybor Armor footnote: Living Cyber armor pieces also drops off the mobs in the basement of Subway.

Second the partymixer quest is only doable for neutral players. Especially the quest for the body piece is what I would call the quest from hell!

Good points, and I incorporate them. The Subway was added after I made that footnote. I've commented about the difficulty of doing the quest for non-neutral characters, but perhaps it needs more emphasis than it currently has in the footnote.

[Dyna18]

Originally posted by Whatsamatta
Ok, I understand what you are saying better now, but we will have to agree to disagree in that case. You are coming at this at the focus of someone who is interested in QL200 armor, but I don't think that's the only valid use of the table, and thus I don't think the table's accuracy can be called into question on that point. (If there is an accuracy mistake someone finds with the raw numbers, I will be happy to correct it.)

True, but then again, there will be very little people who have dragon armor who won't be able to wear ql200 armor as well.

About the values, I recalculated the dragon armor number, and got the same result.

People can't just look at the table and say "I want whatever the #1 spot is". They will have to factor in their own individual considerations for their character level, their skills, what bonuses they might want from armor, and how realistic it is they could acquire the armor. There's just no way for a static table to take all of that into account.

Not all of us just want to look at a table and have it make a decision for us. Doing that leads to a cookie-cutter population running around DeCranum and Albrecht. (Sound familiar?) Some of us want to actually look at all the data and consider a range of choices.

K, true. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree there then.
When i'll be calculating i'll be splitting the Dragon armor number by 2 for myself.

Only thing I fear is that not everybody will notice this and think that dragon armor is also at ql200 indeed so much better then the other armor around.

Maybe a good idea to have a bold or red text behind each armor if that armor is only available in a low ql (low as in 'not available at ql200')?

[Bima]

Originally posted by Dyna18
Maybe a good idea to have a bold or red text behind each armor if that armor is only available in a low ql (low as in 'not available at ql200')?

That's a good idea. Some form of color coding to indicate restricted QL range (even if I just make the existing QL note in the specials column stand out in another color).

Speaking of which, what is the low QL for various armors? I know Biomech, Nano and Omni-Pol Elite all start at QL75. The lowest I've heard of a drop for Cyborg Death Squad is in the 60s. What about others?

[Dyna18]

Yes, it's indeed good for people to make their own choice.
Too bad though that at the end, the options for using unique armor are kinda limited.

I've seen atrox enforcers using a Nano helmet, just to stand out of this clone crowd

I myself am wearing a 6 piece ql200 carbonum armor set now, with a ql200 CAS helmet and a ql200 overtuned heavy OT tank.
Right now I'm trying to investigate if I can switch some carbonum parts for DeCranum's Corona MK II to fill up the AC holes my current armor gives me, hoping to be able to get a nice spread AC coverage.

I have recommended all my guild mates who were still running around in non special armor to look into getting carbonum fast.

[Bima]

As a totally irrelevant aside, saving your implant layouts at auno.org for other people to see like that is pretty cool (but alas does not allow for commentary). I might do that with the various implant plans I have; at the moment only my Fixer plan is available online (http://www.dd.org/~tale/ao/bima-imps.html).

[Dyna18]

Originally posted by Whatsamatta
Speaking of which, what is the low QL for various armors? I know Biomech, Nano and Omni-Pol Elite all start at QL75. The lowest I've heard of a drop for Cyborg Death Squad is in the 60s. What about others?

Not sure, i'm afraid that that information is not in the client side database, but only on the server.

[Jayde]

Whatsamatta, again great job with your table. It's always a big help.

As a semi-solution to Dyna's suggestions, feel free to use links to my interpolated QL's of armor if you find that would help clarify for folks the lower-QL versions.

For instance:
QL 120 Metallic Mantis Body Armor

I dunno... may be helpful. Figured I'd offer.

-Jayde

[Dyna18]

Originally posted by Whatsamatta
As a totally irrelevant aside, saving your implant layouts at auno.org for other people to see like that is pretty cool (but alas does not allow for commentary). I might do that with the various implant plans I have; at the moment only my Fixer plan is available online (http://www.dd.org/~tale/ao/bima-imps.html).

I took a long stroll at your site. I like what you have been checking out so far.
I like to check things out myself. I made a table in excel sometime comparing the 8th overtuned tank's and albrecht on AC stats.
My PC is away for repairs right now, so can't show it now.

About those implant layouts... I really like auno.org... it's great that you can save and share designs there.
Implant designs are kinda personal though, others might prefer other skills boosted. Also lower level players I would recommend putting in more stamina and strenght clusters, which would help putting on better armor.

[Dyna18]

Hi Jayde, nice to meet you.
I like your work too a lot btw... Use your database a lot to figure out how all things stick together.

When 14.7 came you made a list of item changes. Really loved those details. Would like to see a list like that on each patch
(or am I asking too much there)

[Jayde]

Originally posted by Dyna18
Hi Jayde, nice to meet you.
I like your work too a lot btw... Use your database a lot to figure out how all things stick together.

When 14.7 came you made a list of item changes. Really loved those details. Would like to see a list like that on each patch
(or am I asking too much there)

Yeah, I plan to provide the chage lists whenever there is a major patch.

However, the last few pathes..the changes have been so minor, that I've just mentioned them on the home page or on the forums.

Any time there are a large batch of changes though, you can expect to see another list.

-Jayde

[Sheffy]

Demnspawnt when he hit 200, mk2 gloves

No sides or rears, unfortunately.