Whats the point of having a tower under ql 200?

[____________Fakonamo]

Really, what is the point? It can be destroyed easily by anyone wanting to bend the rules a bit. The only way you can defend it is to do the same (if you can even defend it at all).

Say you have a ql 30 tower.

Normally that would limit the lvl and thus strength of the attackers. But, if they bring along a high lvl friend, he/she can buff them out of the area. Sure the friendly nano restrictions in PvP areas are nice, but whats the point if the attacks can be lvl 30 and have lvl 150+ AC, HoT, Life buffs? They will be totally unstoppable by anyone who can fight them. Should you have to cheat the same way just to play NW?

I dont know if thats an exploit but I have sent an email to FC about it.

NWs is just so screwed up right now. What good is a game that caters only to the exploiters?

[Czarina]

not a cheat if anyone can do it and it's within the rules. PvP has been like this since release. It's not as bad as it was when you could get trader NCU buffs to have ridiculous amounts of NCU at low levels.

[RVWinkle]

Lets just hope they don't fix this like they did Beacon Warp. Instead of implimenting correct code they just threaten to ban people. Beacon Warp has officially been an exploit for exactly 2 months today.

[Sheffy]

The answer to your question is pretty logical.

1) For lower level characters in your guild to place towers and receive the benifits from them
2) To give guildmates places to build towers where higher QL bases may be full
3) Org advantages. If you add a QL150 base, your guild just gained 300 more org advantage points it can use.

You can have a maximum of 5 bases, and you can't have more than 1 of each type.

Instead of just having a QL200 base, and thus only getting 400 points of org advantages you can fill up, you could have a QL160 base, a QL100 base, a QL75 base, and maybe even a base higher than QL200 (225 or 250). Add all the QLs up and multiply by two and that's a lot more org advantage possibilities, and a lot of tower room.

[Silirrion]

The buffing thing does need tweaking for sure, in my mind it should work like the OE code in PvP zones (only possibly slightly harsher) in that if you have QL150 buffs on at level 30 when you enter a PvP zone they become scaled to level 50 etc.

I took part in a towers battle yesterday (it was a pretty good one all in all) with an alt at a level 30ish tower in Stret West, the Omnis there were uber buffed as you describe, so I picked up a few of my own from a high level clanner that had come to deal with the higher Omnis and started on an omni atrox solider (I was using a lvl28 atrox enforcer) and we stood there whacking each other for the best part of thirty minutes, neirther of us could win (well I suppose he might have run out of bullets eventually ) as we were both also being healed by other characters. We just stood there knocking lumps out of each other constantly being healed by high end hots and other heals.

[___________Oddfellow]

The point is that anything under a level 200 tower complex is just meat as long as you have some high level people around that nobody in the pvp range of the towers can fight.

Sheffy, you think the answers are logical? Perhaps, but yours certainly arent good solutions.

1) A place for low level people in your org to put down tower, but a place that they will be unable to defend if someone brings their high level buddies along to heal/buff them outside of the pvp area.(Whats the point of a lvl 50 pvp battle if each side has HoTs from a lvl 160 fixer? Nobody will ever get hurt, and the attackers can just ignore the defenders, who cant outdamage the HoT, and kill the towers.)

2) Give guildmates a place to put towers whent the high level area is full? And if they are too high a level to actually pvp to defend their towers, they are 100% S.O.L. If a lvl 100 character places a lvl 50 tower, they get to stand around and watch it get destroyed by people they cant fight. Another bad senario.

3) Org advantages? They will be temporary. If you cant defend them, you cant keep the advantages.

The point wasnt what good can they do, the point was, you cant defend them, so why bother? Only the lvl 180-200 towers are not open to 'clever' ways around the pvp rules.

[Snuble]

1) A place for low level people in your org to put down tower, but a place that they will be unable to defend if someone brings their high level buddies along to heal/buff them outside of the pvp area.(Whats the point of a lvl 50 pvp battle if each side has HoTs from a lvl 160 fixer? Nobody will ever get hurt, and the attackers can just ignore the defenders, who cant outdamage the HoT, and kill the towers.)

2) Give guildmates a place to put towers whent the high level area is full? And if they are too high a level to actually pvp to defend their towers, they are 100% S.O.L. If a lvl 100 character places a lvl 50 tower, they get to stand around and watch it get destroyed by people they cant fight. Another bad senario.

3) Org advantages? They will be temporary. If you cant defend them, you cant keep the advantages.

#1 Our low level players get the same benefits as our alts. You can outdamage a in level doc hainhealing, so the HoT will go down to twinked defenders.

#2 Alts. And they get buffs.

#3 Well. Your argument dies on the "can't defend". You can. In AO 2 points to all nano skills can be very powerfull.

I just wish FC would realise, that whatever they do, the big orgs will get the advantage AND the true newbies will get screwed when facing a twinked alt.

Stop twinking? Well... Hmmm... Is that really really a good idea???

[___________Oddfellow]

So, lets see if I get this right...

You're saying that if you want to place a low level tower, you should also have alts of the same level as that tower? Then why wouldnt the alt just place the tower, rendering your higher level main character obsolete? Oh, or maybe you just have to twink beyond all reason to be able to stand a chance? Yeah, thats the trick isnt it? And just what do you think 2 pts of nano skill have to do with being able to defend towers outside of your pvp range? Absolutely nothing, thats what. You could have an extra 200 pts and you still wont be able to fight against people attacking those low level towers you say are so valuable.

Is it reasonable to expect that someone, let alone an entire org would maintain alts in the pvp ranges of every towe complex they place, just so they can fight? Even a large org(with the exception of the icons of large orgs) arent going to have that many people in the pvp range of any given tower. Assume you have 200 people in your org. You'e a big org. Those 200 people are spread evenly around the levels. How many of them are withing the pvp range of any given tower? What happens when they level?

And no lvl 40-50 doc is going to out-heal and outfight someone with a couple really good HoTs from a lvl 170 Fixer, oh, and maybe a nice large health buff on top of that. The point is that during any defense or attack on a low level tower you are likely to not only have to face the people in your pvp range(who, like you, may or may not be twinked) but all their high level buddies that they bring along to hang outside the land control area and buff them there.

I agree with you that the large orgs are going to be/are the ones that will dominate NW. Even when they have all of their land control areas, they are still the ones likely to kick over your sand castle.

[_________KrazyKanuck]

Originally posted by Oddfellow

And no lvl 40-50 doc is going to out-heal and outfight someone with a couple really good HoTs from a lvl 170 Fixer

Ummmm fixer HoTs have level requirements though. A fixer cannot cast the level 195+ nano on a levle 50 twink. So yes a 40-50 doc can out heal the HoTs from a level 170 fixer when they are both healing a level 50ish person. As for the large HP buffs yes they can get them but that eats alot of their NCU and unless they are a trader its not very high at that level.

[___________Oddfellow]

Thats just incorrect Krazy. Only one of the two Fixer HoT lines has level requirements. The older one, while they only last a couple minutes, do not. So, yes, they can outheal a low level Doc. And while they have level restrictions, a 2nd HoT stacked over the higher level one that does not have a level restriction, will do quite nicely. You can also have your NCU expanded, even if only to a degree, by a fixer, and yes, I know those are level restricted, but they will still help.

[trellame]

The level restrictions on our HoTs are only in who can cast them, they can be run on anyone with enough NCU. The only nano we have with a level restriction in who it can be cast on are NCU buffs.

[Snuble]

the lvl 195 req nano: 362-370 180 hits, 10s delay

HP/s => 36

A QL 50 heal, 282-395 should be insta cast, 3s recharge

HP/s => 112

A QL 70 heal, 327-551 should still be insta cast, 3,3s recharge

HP/s => 133

And for the comparision a old school HoT:

Omni-Med Incursion 122-276 40 hits, 5s delay

HP/s => 39.8

The only possible conclusion would be that a doc at lvl 50 outheals any fixer HoT. Of course you can't kill the HoT, but I think you would be better off with lets say, Calias Form: Sabre then a fixer HoT...

Oh, another comparision.
QL 24 doc heal 130-199 2.6/2.79

For the discussion lets say nano init cuts it to 1.3/2.79

HP/s => ((199+130)/2)/4.09 = 40.22

So BLEH!

[Letah]

Check the adventures of Nynny my adv lvl 52 in my sig.

She grabs NCU buff, GSF, Dr Hack N Quack, Behemoth, RRFE, Behe and CS, sometimes a HE too and totally whacks the s* out of a full 16-tower base her lvl with litterairy dozens of clanners shooting at me.

In the screenies you can see around 8 clanners attacking me at the same time, and a few secs later 8 dead clan bodies. The real magic is the fixerhot; which grants me immortality. The dmgshields make sure I dont have to shoot the clanner, just the towers.

I levelled some bases to the ground like this cept the control tower (too much hp to remove in the time), many of the people there petionned thinking I was sploiting (Last Dawn Syndicate in Longest Road), only their leader understood I was twinked and superbuffed.

It's a lot fun to do but obvious it needs some fixing; It's a bit naturally my 52 adv shouldnt survive residing in a 25% clan base with a dozen clanners shooting at me.

[Snuble]

Well... Don't give people ideas Letah The clear advantage of a HoT is that it don't die, and it won't run out of nano. But a imortal lvl 50 doc would still outheal the HoT

I would say that you lieved by your rrfe

[Letah]

Originally posted by Snublefot
Well... Don't give people ideas Letah The clear advantage of a HoT is that it don't die, and it won't run out of nano. But a imortal lvl 50 doc would still outheal the HoT

I would say that you lieved by your rrfe

Hehe no, RRFE grants me 40% more hp:

4000 hp + 40% = 7200 hp
While the HoT gives: 4000+(300hp*(25mins/10secs))=49000 HP

But I got both!

~ 50000 hp

And a 49(rrfe)+60(cs)+10(bracers) dmg shield

[Snuble]

And if the defender brought a lvl 50 atrox trader twink and a lvl 50 nanomage doc twink? Would you still be standing?

[Revelator]

I think that if it eventually comes down to an ubertwinking competition, thats not exactly good, but anyway it's STILL a competition, which I believe is the main point of NW.

The laws of twinking are after all equal to all. and usually requires quite a bit of effort and planning, so it's not as if you can just ubertwink in 2 min, and then go around griefing bases. In other words, for every twink there is an equal opposite twink, at least in potentia.

Oh and to Nynny the Solo Tower Bane I have this to say: VERY VERY IMPRESSIVE! Unfortunately, if you can't bring down the tower you haven't actually accomplished anything except a) prove a concept, and b) annoy some people.

NW isn't about taking out the support towers, it's about killing enemy controllers and grabbing their land. You take out the support towers to be able to kill the controller, but unless you can go the whole hog (and why doesn't adventurers have a hog morph?!) you might as well stay home.

I think the starter of this thread is under the mis-conception that a base is supposed to be permanent, and that it's only a 'known' bug that ppl are able to attack them. The fact is, they are vulnerable, and if you are not willing to spend some time defending them, even against lowbie ubertwinks who just spent 2 hours getting all their buffs in place, then yes don't bother.

And lets face it, sometimes you DO need just those 2 points of BM, and then you can throw up a base for equipping purposes if you want. Which greatly helps in the twinking!

[Supersoly]

Originally posted by Sillirrion
The buffing thing does need tweaking for sure, in my mind it should work like the OE code in PvP zones (only possibly slightly harsher) in that if you have QL150 buffs on at level 30 when you enter a PvP zone they become scaled to level 50 etc.

I took part in a towers battle yesterday (it was a pretty good one all in all) with an alt at a level 30ish tower in Stret West, the Omnis there were uber buffed as you describe, so I picked up a few of my own from a high level clanner that had come to deal with the higher Omnis and started on an omni atrox solider (I was using a lvl28 atrox enforcer) and we stood there whacking each other for the best part of thirty minutes, neirther of us could win (well I suppose he might have run out of bullets eventually ) as we were both also being healed by other characters. We just stood there knocking lumps out of each other constantly being healed by high end hots and other heals.

yep, that woulda been my soldier alt, but alas, I twinked him @ lvl 24 for the subway :-P, wait till I ever get around to twinking him again :-p


it was alot of fun though, I gave up on killing u and made u coem into PvP area, thus u couldn't be healed. The system kinda works...



BUMP for making it better

[______________Aameul]

Well, here's the deal. My guild has had 3 bases. One was a QL100 in SEB that got demolished 18 hours after it got put up. The others are QL25 and QL50 bases that have been standing since the day they were put up. Both are over a month old.

Why have a tower under QL200? Because they can offer small, but still significant, bonuses to high level players and very nice bonuses to lower level ones, while only a small fraction of low level bases are fought over.

Sure, if you have a QL30 base in Stret West Bank, just a moment from Reet's Retreat, you're going to have a battle a day before you just give up. This is what happened to our QL100 tower - SEB is a higher level area that has many omni and clan people flowing through it. As it happened, our allies couldn't reach us in time, so the base fell.

However, if you have a base in the heart of Aegean, no omni is going to bother attacking it, because they know it'll just get taken back the next time it goes to 25%... because noone wants to see omni that close to Athen. Just like clanners wouldn't seriously try to hold a base outside the gates of omni-ent.

[____________mgbkurtz]

i like the idea of some kind of OE mechanism with buffs on lower level players. let's take a popular buff line such as the essence line.

solution #1: if a player doesn't reach a certain % of the target skills then the buff isn't 100%. now, this would hurt profs with blue nano skills and help those with green skills. also, every prof doesn't raise all the nano skills, as well. so, this is not a good solutuion.

solution #2: hidden level reqs on targets for certain buffs. this would include buffs such as essence, hots, HE, etc. that are very popular in combat. these level reqs would not be diclosed, but rather the target must ask for the correct buff when he/she is looking for them. also, this would not be implimated in 100% or 75% zones, so lower levels could still get buffs for missions, etc. most spots that i know of where 1-75 hunt/mission are in 75% gas. these level reqs would only be for players below 75.

solution #3: dont do anything. leave the system as it is. if both sides are buffed to the gills then it's fair.

kurtz