Rimor Wars

[Revelator]

Originally posted by Armaklaesy


Report on battles occuring January 4th, 2003:

- Immortal Ascension base in Belial Forest, **Destroyed** Q150

- Quizotic base in Belial Forest, **Destroyed** Q200

- Clan Yagyu base in Street East Bank, **Destroyed** Q150

- Immortal Ascension base in Clon****, **Destroyed** Q45

All in one day. Seems the Omni Juggernaut is a little stronger then you think. Welcome to the party Omni-Tek.

Well, well! You guys can get off your stuff together sometimes eh?

Good for you I say! I do notice that 2 spots havent even been built on yet, but hey I guess someone will...

I'm gonna make an attempt next weekend, if I can gather the necessary force, and more importantly towerless orgs, to clean out all Omni bases north of the PM/4H border, which of course is mostly low ql towers, but it will be interesting to see if it can be done.

The Adastrus II base in DAV could get tricky, I think, but we'll probably have a good go anyway.

Any Clanners, or indeed Neutrals, who would like a base in the ql 25 to 100 range, please send me a tell in game, and hopefully we can get something together.

We shall se who has the mightiest juggernaut, you evil corporate slave drivers you! Ack! there I go with the RP again...

[______________Hideo2]

Seems to me there's a perfectly logical way to balance out the conflict _on all dimensions_...and it could indeed be rationalized as "one side having better equipment".

Simply put: as one faction gains more (and higher level) towers, the effectiveness of those towers decreases, and the relative strength of the "underdog's" towers increases. All on a sliding scale...a bell-curve even, so that if one side is only left with a tiny amount of towers, those bases are nigh well impossible to destroy.

Net result: the "underdog" will have an easier time defending what it has, and an easier time taking new territories. The "overdog" will _need_ superior numbers to handle both weakened defenses and the increased difficulty of offense. And...for all intents and purposes, neither side can ever "win"...until Funcom is good and ready to introduce such a notion into the storyline.

Not entirely realistic, but we ARE talking about balance here after all. The rationale could be twofold...the effect of spreading supply lines too thin, combined with technological "interference" from the ICC, who maintain a vested interest in the status quo.

Just an idea, but it might do the trick.

--Hideo

[Aesma]

that actually makes sense.

it follows the same theory of "a cornered rat fights harder". it also, as Hideo2 mentioned, brings in the idea of longer supply lines and more difficult logistics. what would eventually happen is the clans and OT would come to a stalemate, with each controlling about the same percentage of land that each side has in population. It would also benefit the Neutrals, as their bases would be nigh-invincible. But the neutrals also do not have the manpower to attack enmasse, so they will not be a significant force threat to OT and Clan.

I have thought about this one for a while, and i dont really forsee a downside to it. It would balance the tower battles, but would retain the drive to get more towers up (xp bonus). Also, it would prevent the "losing" side from getting discouraged and either switching sides, quitting AO, or stopping PvP.

/chant on

Oh, great and all powerful FunCom developers...
Please take notice of this thread....
Please deliver some of our wishes in the name of balance and constant war for all...
Thank you....

/chant off

[Jaesic]

Originally posted by eternalfiend
that actually makes sense.

it follows the same theory of "a cornered rat fights harder". it also, as Hideo2 mentioned, brings in the idea of longer supply lines and more difficult logistics. what would eventually happen is the clans and OT would come to a stalemate, with each controlling about the same percentage of land that each side has in population. It would also benefit the Neutrals, as their bases would be nigh-invincible. But the neutrals also do not have the manpower to attack enmasse, so they will not be a significant force threat to OT and Clan.

I have thought about this one for a while, and i dont really forsee a downside to it. It would balance the tower battles, but would retain the drive to get more towers up (xp bonus). Also, it would prevent the "losing" side from getting discouraged and either switching sides, quitting AO, or stopping PvP.

/chant on

Oh, great and all powerful FunCom developers...
Please take notice of this thread....
Please deliver some of our wishes in the name of balance and constant war for all...
Thank you....

/chant off

i agree... it does seem to solve the problem without really having any downside... except maybe that while the neutral bases that already exist might be tough nuts to crack... there probably wouldn't be any new ones... unless they managed to smack one side or the other when they were unbalanced and became easy targets...

i'm also generally in favor of bases defending themselves a lot more effectively than they do now. perhaps not at the ql200+ range... but I'm getting really tired of seeing one and two person teams of super twinks overrunning bases on their own... and I've been high level support on a couple ql100 base runs that were just plain tedious.

i suppose part of this is that characters only get a limited number of towers and can't duplicate (which is understandable from a bonus abuse perspective)... but it means that a vast majority of people are building more guardian towers than anything else... which are no where near as defensive as turrets. the stats on the towers from 199 downwards need a serious checking. no single character, even a twinked one... should be able to solo one of these personal towers... and a controller should take at minimum a full team. right now... they don't.

[Aqua]

Originally posted by Jaesic

i agree... it does seem to solve the problem without really having any downside...

Downside is that FC can't write a print statement without bugging it so probably once a faction controls 51% of the land their towers would stop fighting or terminate.


But I like the idea if they could put it in the code.

~aqua

[Aesma]

bump, just to get some more productive discussion

[Aqua]

well this is just my opinion but eventually those that don't really care for pvp will move back on to leveling and then things will even out some.

~Aqua

[Revelator]

Originally posted by Aqua
well this is just my opinion but eventually those that don't really care for pvp will move back on to leveling and then things will even out some.

~Aqua

Unfortunately we lvl so we can use higher lvl nanos, guns and armor, and the towers are all part of that whole equipping thing.

I think people are indeed becoming a little tired of fighting battles every time they log on, but I also notice that a lot of the higher lvls become tired of lvling (heck, I'm lvl 142 and I'm tired of BS) and see the wars as a welcome diversion.

I'd say it's all up to the Omnis and possibly FC too now, as a Clanner I will just wait and see. Clan problems seem to center now around finding the orgs that need the land we will take away from Omni, and also finding GOOD land that isnt too small (because then your base will be gimped) or too close to whompa/grid (because then your base will be constantly attacked by griefers and joyriders).

[______________Sepaku]

Maybe the gear Omni has access to should be upgraded, make it No Drop and only Omni wearable(no switching sides to buy or have someone run grab you some).

Will take some fixer gear for example(only class I know), have it so Omni fixers can buy the something like CDS in shops upto 200. You could do this with gear for other classes as well.

Where as clans would have to hunt and scrap gear together, Omni(those with jobs) Employees could buy them in well stocked shops.

I am sure people will come up with 50 reasons why this isnt a good idea, but its an idea.

Cheers,
Sepaku
133 Atrox Fixer
RK-2 Clan

[_______________Hypos]

The dominance by the clans is just not pretty. Not only are clanners more numerous, but each clanner is more powerful than his omni counterpart because of having better bases.

Flew around this weekend seeing what the status of the conflict was. Here's what I found at the higher QL spots:

Zone Low QL High QL   Area                           Faction Org                   
DAV     200    300    Southern Forest of Xzawkaz     Clan    Nemesis
DAV     200    300    In the Swamp of Horrors        Clan    Outcasts
EFP     200    300    Pegradul                       Clan    Arcane Circle
EFP     200    300    Middle of Eastern Fouls Plains Clan    EcoDisaster
PW      191    250    Middle of Liberty              Clan    Silence Broken
Mort    170    250    West Spirals                   Clan    (AO) Tribulations (AO)
Mort    170    250    East Spirals                   Clan    Immortal Ascension
PW      190    230    Cyborg Border                  Clan    EcoDisaster
Mort    160    210    Stormshelter                   Clan    Pax Romana
Belial  160    200    Forest Waters                  Omni    The Dojo
EFP     150    200    Krud the Lost Valley Defense   Omni    Adrastus II
CAV     140    200    Fisher Village Approach        Omni    Inner Circle
CAV     140    200    By the Fisher Village          Clan    Honesty =TDF=
EFP     130    200    Clefre Defense                 Clan    Arcane Circle

Of course, it could have changed since then. But it shows clear clan dominance at the high end.

As you go further down the QL list, it still looks bad for omni. I expected the next range to be omni dominated to show the effect of high level omnis having to "settle" for land below QL200, but it doesn't.

Zone Low QL High QL   Area                           Faction Org                   
Belial  130    190    River Delta                    Clan    Honesty =TDF=
DAV     130    180    The swamp of hope              Clan    Nemesis
DAV     130    180    Island of Control              Clan    Outcasts
DAV     130    180    The haunted of forest outskirt Clan    Nemesis
PW      120    180    Plains of dust                 Clan    Fatal Exception
USEast  120    180    The Flooded Bottomland         Omni    Conquistador Coffee Inc.
Belial  120    180    East of Wine                   Clan    Arcane Circle
Belial  120    180    Southern belial Mine           Clan    SpecForce
EFP     120    180    Plains of Jarga Defense        Clan    Warriors of Innocence =TDF=
SFH     120    180    SFH Defense                    Clan    Yagyu
M Way   125    170    Central Prowler Waste          Omni    OT Far East Dominions
M Way   125    170    Southern Prowler Waste         Omni    Shadow Ops
CAV     100    170    North Forest                   Clan    Nemesis
Mort    110    160    Oasis Ore                      Clan    (AO) Coven of Hunters (AO)
Mort    100    150    South West Craterwall          Clan    Honesty =TDF=
PW      100    150    West of Canyon                 Clan    Vengance Theory =TDF=
PW      100    150    Lower Plateau Zone             Clan    Honesty =TDF=
PW      100    150    The Mid Canyon Crossing        Clan    Outcasts
PW      100    150    The Canyon Mines               Clan    Velvet
USEast  100    150    Haven Notum Crematorium        Clan    Les Rebelles Francophones
SAV     100    150    Defense of Geholva             Omni    Phoenix Division
BS      100    150    West of Wine                   Omni    Inner Circle
BS      100    150    Near Clan Outpost              Clan    (AO) Tribulations (AO)
SAV     100    150    Bendelham forest Defense       Clan    Les Rebelles Francophones
Belial  100    150    Borderline                     Clan    SpecForce
DAV     100    150    Plains of defense              Omni    Adrastus II
CAV     100    150    South Clutching Forest         Clan    (AO) Tribulations (AO)
SFH     100    150    South of Nightplain            Clan    Velvet
SFH     100    150    Little Hawaii Defense          Omni    Evil Inc.
Stret E  80    150    Southern Lower River Bank      Clan    Les Nomades De Rimor
Stret E  80    150    Aprils Rock Defense            Clan    Fatal Shadows

Clanners are clearly kicking butt.

I'm not fond of the suggestion that the winner's towers should provide less of a buff. The buffs just aren't useful unless you can twink you char to them. So you shouldn't have to check every hour to see if your weapon suddenly became OE or to see if you can still cast that nano.

Maybe add gaurds to the bases of the losing side. Or maybe make their towers inherently harder to destroy. I'd like to see the vicinity effects of towers increased if the defender is on the losing side.

Another idea is to take the 6 hrs that a tower is vulnerable and increase the amount of that time that is 5% on the winning side. 5% gas makes defending harder because it messes with the defender's allies.

[Jaesic]

Originally posted by Hypos
The dominance by the clans is...

the higher QL spots:

Zone Low QL High QL   Area                           Faction Org                   
SFH     100    150    South of Nightplain            Clan    Velvet

Clanners lost this base to Omni this evening... and Omni also successfully repelled a counter attack on its nextdoor neighbor, Little Hawaii (owned by Evil Inc). The new South of Nightplain base is controlled by Project EDEN.

[locomdenom]

Sssh, Jaes. Let 'em think it's still clan.

[______________Redman]

Originally posted by eternalfiend

Speaking of that.... after i got ganked 7 times trying to help out a fellow OT org (twice after asking to be allowed thru to a nearby mission)... I am not going to attack any clanners. only defend OT. I have also since hit 150, so until i get some more levels under my belt, I know im prime ganking material.. and therefore, wont participate. I just put up towers to better myself. Most days, I just dont want to PvP at all. Its not my cup'o'tea. simple as that. Hopefully, FC will not only understand that, but also make concessions to that feeling.

Well the IDEA behind AO is that its ANARCHY and there is a WAR going,,, and thats NOT a war where i run around killing NPC! clanners and feel all happy about im god like to those ugly NPCs,,, when you bought AO you must have known that the idea was there was going to be alot of PVP, and the fact that they actualy got thier act together and made it happen is just GOOD!!! this is not a carebear game,,, well it wasnt the idea in the start enyway and now its all the sudden ppl coming and saying "hey man i dont like pvp" then get your a** back to EQ!

[Revelator]

Originally posted by Hypos
The dominance by the clans is just not pretty. Not only are clanners more numerous, but each clanner is more powerful than his omni counterpart because of having better bases.

Clanners are clearly kicking butt.

Great post Hypos, clearified the issue quite a bit, as I really believed Omni had more high lvl bases than this, and therefore the situation is therefore in fact worse than I though it was.

I don't want to flame or anything however, or seem unappreciative of the work you have done here (which is a lot, I know, I have been scouting too), but maybe posting this kind of accurate targeting data is not a good idea in the present circumstances?

I mean, feel free to post Clan targeting data, it's just the kind of sneaky, underhanded trick I would expect from evil corporate slave drivers with no morals or ethics,

(Revelator:: Hello everyone! My name is Revelator....
Everyone: Hello Revelator!
Revelator: ... and I am............... a Role Player. *sob*

Revelator gets a big group hug and feels a huge amount of relief now that he has admitted he has a problem)

but posting where Omni bases are located is possibly not a good thing. Heck, I was looking for some of these bases!

Something definitely needs to be done, but FC is in a real bind here, because Rimor and Atlantean are supposed to be (and probably HAVE to be too, for coding purposes) mirrored, and Rimor is the only one that needs fixing on this kind of grand scale.

A lot of good and constructive ideas have been posted here, and I do really hope that FC does something, but I just can't see how they can do it without splitting the story lines and thereby breaking the mirror.

[Dyna18]

Wow... .that's a lot of work you've done there hypos.... And things look indead as worse as I feared

[Jaesic]

Originally posted by Kiryat-Dharin
Sssh, Jaes. Let 'em think it's still clan.

Pshaw... like the 30 of them that tried to bum rush us just before the new base reverted to 100% don't already know?

[Teufeldieb]

Yep last night was a very nice organized hostile takeover. After the offense.. defense was set up and Omni held ground. Thanks for all that attended and supported.

And Jaesic I will be your designated meeper anytime bro..


/me laffs thinking of the faces on the clammies left there looking for thier target that suddenly dissappeared.

[Canto]

Jesus, Revelator, you are full of hot air. Thought I was pompous here on the boards but dude you really take the cake.

Originally posted by Revelator

What I see in Omni is a profound lack of faith, spirit and belief in themself and their side, a faith, spirit and belief that most Clanners do have. Not all Clanners, but I bet a lot more than Omni.

Wow, put down the bong and maybe the grandiose visions of this "game" will leave you (it might take a couple of hours).

Originally posted by Revelator

And you know what Isol? We ARE better than you at the moment, because we have more in the way of unity, togetherness and team spirit than Omni does.

What you have is more people who can manage to be logged into a computer game 15 hours a day.

Originally posted by Revelator

For me, I dread the work ahead, like I would dread having to go into the newbie area to gank leets again for XP, and the only challenge for me will be to see how fast Clan can turn the LC map red.

Well, shouldn't take you more than a couple of weeks to do that with all that superior Clan spirit. Better get started. Will check back here on January 22 to see whether you are a prophet or a fool.

[Revelator]

Originally posted by Sanskrit

Well, shouldn't take you more than a couple of weeks to do that with all that superior Clan spirit. Better get started. Will check back here on January 22 to see whether you are a prophet or a fool.

Woot! My very first flame! You know, I've been trolling for one for some time now, I thought it would never happen!

And a challenge to boot! I love that!

I had however decided to throttle down my somewhat aggressive stance on this, in the interest of not totally ruining game play, so the challenge DOES come at a slightly inappropriate time for me.

So I will make you (and of course the rest of Omni too) a deal:

The clan xp bonus is currently hovering around 9% (currently a tad below), if Omni can bring it to below 8% I will concede that you are indeed born again HARD, and I will start up my warmongering again!

A little proof that you do indeed retain that good ol' fightin' spirit isn't too much is it, or do you want to admit that you got lucky this time?

And I loved the part about the bong, Sanskrit, as I live in Masterdam, The Netherlands, and it irritates my RL friends (and if that isn't an invite to flaming I dunno what is) intensely that I do not partake in that oh! so wacky baccy.

You might also try to check with someone what the last three letters in MMORPG stands for...

[Jaesic]

Originally posted by Revelator

The clan xp bonus is currently hovering around 9% (currently a tad below), if Omni can bring it to below 8% I will concede that you are indeed born again HARD, and I will start up my warmongering again!

A little proof that you do indeed retain that good ol' fightin' spirit isn't too much is it, or do you want to admit that you got lucky this time?

And I loved the part about the bong, Sanskrit, as I live in Masterdam, The Netherlands, and it irritates my RL friends (and if that isn't an invite to flaming I dunno what is) intensely that I do not partake in that oh! so wacky baccy.

You might also try to check with someone what the last three letters in MMORPG stands for...

You know... I don't know which part of this is more ridiculous Revelator... the part where you think challenging us macho style will get us to attack more and give you more chances for 'fun'... or the part where you think pushing people's buttons on the forums for an MMORPG is roleplaying.