a little math......

[_____________Phionna]

ok so here we have the 50% damage in pvp...
now we have a soldier zoning in with a shield that blocks 75% of that 50%.....wow..now my damage is down to 12.5%!

so lets take my gun, the ql 188 raenee my damage ranges from 60-1000 ,2600ish crits on mobs and with 1000 ranged init i have about 1second attack/reload.

so, using the weapon damage calculator at

http://kuren.org/ao/weapon.php
my average damage per second is 491 with 20% crit rate (LMA + hud upgrade adds1%)
this is on mobs though....

so lets take that to half for pvp, we get 245. ok im not in bad shape still my aim shot can do 40% usually and the rest of that can go down in maybe 10sec with that damage average..

now lets add the soldier mk shield!
13% of 491 is a whole 68 damage per second!
and these shields last for 1minute + at higher levels
Ive never seen a pvp fight at these levels last more then 20 seconds.
so with a lvl 150 soldier lets say hes atrox , has around 5k hp and comes in with his shield.
i get around maybe 400 aim shot if im lucky with their shield on so hes at 4600 health now.first aid heals that......
now with my averaging 68 damager per second after that i would need 73 seconds to kill this soldier and stay alive at the same time. add an alpha strike to me im just about dead in 5seconds.

just a little math, if your going to nerf damage and not shields and any other buffs that unbalance theirs no point.

[________________cson]

Uh yeah. You pretty much have to run away from fighting distance until the shield drops. But not too far so that the fight disengages and he can using a Nano Recharger. If you're PvPing with an Agent, you should probably cast LMA just before MA FP runs out and then go FP MP for the heal pet.

I'm currently a 142 MA. I got attack by a soldier a few levels back. And yes, the MK shield is BS. It's great that they have them, but you can't go head to head with a soldier with MK up. Alphas can still kill you, but if you can survive that and run around until the MK drops, the soldier will either die or run. Another note, most high level soldiers raise their First-Aid just enough to use the QL 125 first aid kits and only carry those with them. If you debuff First-Aid, there's a good chance that they won't be able to heal themself.

[__________NicholaSix]

Damage needs to be un-nurfed. the 40% max cap on any one attack or special could stay, but it's time for 100% damage. Then we can have 100% heals and 100% nanos.

We also need mobs with 100% less HP in the 75+ game and a LOT MORE OF THEM in each area, 5 or 6 in the main rooms of missions, 1-2 in every other room and much better AI and cooperative behaviour.

What we don't need is to nurf more stuff. That cycle will never end. You guys are looking at the very high soldier game, soldiers in the 50-120 range suck. If you took away their sheild or halved it again that would be a really nice insult to add to enormous injury.

[Think4urself]

Thanks for that Ultra1,

I know your a former soldier so you realize the current soldier situation.

I just wish other people would open their eyes and see that the MK shield is the ONLY thing a soldier has to his benifit....... Anyone and thier moma can usa a NovaFlow.

I don't ask for Agent Nerfs (because it's pretty funny seeing a high level agent with a QL200 stigma which is going to be poison damage after patch, a DEMON pet and heal pet) ... please don't ask for Soldier nerfs, I think we've had enough too.

Thanks

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Lohem
Thanks for that Ultra1,

I know your a former soldier so you realize the current soldier situation.

I just wish other people would open their eyes and see that the MK shield is the ONLY thing a soldier has to his benifit....... Anyone and thier moma can usa a NovaFlow.

I don't ask for Agent Nerfs (because it's pretty funny seeing a high level agent with a QL200 stigma which is going to be poison damage after patch, a DEMON pet and heal pet) ... please don't ask for Soldier nerfs, I think we've had enough too.

Thanks

NO MORE NERFS PERIOD!!! Lvl 112 agent.... and I can say nerfs can take the fun out of the game. Damage just needs to be restored to a normal amount. As of right now, reflect and absorb shields as well as heals are ridiculously overpowered. You are never going to entice someone to start PvPing if like was said before... they can't damage the soldier in damage shield... or like was mentioned they have to wait for two minutes while the MK x shield wears off. At least before some people felt like they had a chance.

Also... to note about that demon and heal pet.... Funcom has already stated to us that they plan on nerfing us further and removing them from our abilities.... but they are trying to come up with a viable solution as to how we will be able to survive without the help of a heal pet. So... soon agents won't even have those alternatives...

Although I guess with the current state of the game... we should just find a zone and then cast Mirror Shield MK x. and Run in with 2 minutes of damage protection. however... this still won't work against a soldier as he will have at least 1k hp's more than us.

[_____________Phionna]

im not asking for nerfs, i just said if they want to nerf the damage then they need to nerf the shields.

I am all for making specials capped at 40% and then making regular damage 100% , id have nothing wrong with that

but if they dont do that theres really no other option except nerfing more and more, which is the patch they will probably take knowing FC

[___________fancycrat]

oh shut up, aww the poor agent cant whoop that one class in 10 secs? poor muffin

get real just cuz you cant kill everyclass in 10 secs dosent mean you should moan about it..
Some of us should be able to get you
sheesh

poor muffin!

[_______________Garzu]

Bah, you didnt get her point did you? Obviously not... she and alot of other players (including me) wants 100% damage back in the game, the dmg nerf didnt count with MK shields and alot of other debuffs/buffs including healing would get alot more powerful, thats why people ask these questions.

[Takima]

Just root him, get out of his range, and wait for the shield to drop. Sounds simple, but for some reason it isn't quite that easy.

[_______________Garzu]

No it isnt, i wonder why....

[__________WGMelchior]

"We also need mobs with 100% less HP in the 75+ game and a LOT MORE OF THEM in each area, 5 or 6 in the main rooms of missions, 1-2 in every other room and much better AI and cooperative behaviour."


100% less? Isn't that a *bit* too easy?

[________________Ming]

Hey I've hated agents from day one, but I agree in this case that damage needs to be restored to 100% as follows:

Leave specials as is at 40% total HPcap.
Put regular damage back to 100% but not to exceed 40% total HP.
Cap crits at 40% total HP.
Cap Nukes at 40% total HP.

Problem solved.

The End.

[______________Takuan]

To funny Lohem


Quote:

I just wish other people would open their eyes and see that the MK shield is the ONLY thing a soldier has to his benifit....... Anyone and thier moma can usa a NovaFlow.



Well Heals is all a MA has left don't nerf me either with this stupid percentage heal crap. FIX PVP!!!

[Arinia]

Everything Ming said except the nuke part -- because you're effectively nerfing NTs entirely -- NTs don't have a regular attack except nukes (except for the ones carrying shotties, but if they want to spend the extra IP on them, that's fine).

The problem is that if you allow 100% damage on everything, everyone gets instakilled. Instakill classes instantly dominate everything. Not good, IMHO. It used to be that way, you could get hit by an agent for 5k when you only had 1200 HP. It's happened to me before.

Sooo... find some way to get 100% damage back in there without instakills. The special cap at 40% is a good start. Capping crits is a great idea. Right now pvp is all about who gets the crits. It does me no good if I can consistetly hit a soldier for 1k damage every 8 seconds, if he crits me for 1.5k every 3 seconds.

So, again, I'm all for 100% damage, as long as instakill classes don't become the way to go -- otherwise we'll see all those new MP rerolls go and reroll again, to a NT or agent. Can you say 'flavor of the month'?

I pay FC to play the game, I trust they will find a good way to solve the problem (I really do trust em!).

[______________Sredni]

Soldiers are one of the most nerfed proffession's out there and you want to nerf them even more? Mirror shield has been nerfed once already, by all means nerf it even more.

""im not asking for nerfs, i just said if they want to nerf the damage then they need to nerf the shields. ""

Um, sounds like your asking for a nerf to me. a % is a % is a %, it already reflects a max of 38 pt's at the level I'm using, but you want it to let through more damage? Why not use tactics? Going by the proff descriptions an agent should never be able to stand up toe to toe with a soldier, if you refuse to root and retreat for the shield to wear off then don't whine about dying.

Bah, I say bring on the overequipe nerf, let all the agents feel the nerfage if they're gonna call for soldier nerfs.

[__________NicholaSix]

LOL one thing about crits tho.

Most level 80ish traders I know have ql180+ shotguns (no fling shot sgs).

All get LMA b4 they PVP

They almost ALWAYS crit.

Their crits almost always do 40%

That means most of their fights last about 12 seconds.

Maybe fixing crit percentages is a big priority.

[Think4urself]

Takuan, buddie, hehe...... Can we stop going back and forth like this?

For the love of God... I agree with you !!

I think the best answer is like many have said and I think Garzu and Ultra1 said best:

Raise Damage back to 100% and keep the caps. All damage will be capped at 40% of opponents max HP.

1. There will still be NO insta-kills... you'd have to get hit at least three times with extreme hits to die.

2. Healers and Non-healers would be back on a level playing field.

3. Phionna will be happy because she'll be doing more damage against soldiers with shields.

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Iceman109
oh shut up, aww the poor agent cant whoop that one class in 10 secs? poor muffin

get real just cuz you cant kill everyclass in 10 secs dosent mean you should moan about it..
Some of us should be able to get you
sheesh

poor muffin!

man... what's wrong with you??? Agents Lvl 90+ can't do much of anything at the moment. And that wasn't Phionna's point. When the game started you had heals, shields, and damage... these three items needed to be in balance to balance game mechanics.... some classes (like agents) only have damage and our equal level weapons do less TOTAL damage than other weapons (I say that because people quote the damage amounts they see and don't realize we are shooting slower than a lot of other weapons... or reloading every 5 shots). Some classes like soldiers have shields and damage... some classes like docs have top notch heals. Some classes like enforcers have a good balance of the three (mongo heals/hp buffs for health)... and some like NT's have a shields and damage.

The point is that when you effectively cut in half one of these three balancing figures (with the intentions of only lengthening battles). You effectively double the power of heals and shields. All three should work together to provide balance in the game. They need to be kept in balance in order for the game to better balanced.

The game was built with the idea that these three things were to offset each other.

In a like note.. I don't PvP anymore, but I have heard that Engie and Meta pets still do full damage, even though every other damage is cut in half. This also is WAY OUT OF WACK. I've seen Slayers hit Veteran Mobs for half thier hit points (my judge is that this is between 5k and 6k damage) well.... I hate to say it, but if I or many other Lvl 75+ players get hit by this it's a one shot death.

[______________Yazule]

Sheilds may be the only thing they got, but when a solja gets MK x they are only vulnerable for 40 seconds at a time. Add to that the pvp damage cap and a solja at high levels is unkillable.

and dont worry about ICE, he has become a troll

[Zerosignal]

Originally posted by Phionna
ok so here we have the 50% damage in pvp...
now we have a soldier zoning in with a shield that blocks 75% of that 50%.....wow..now my damage is down to 12.5%!

so lets take my gun, the ql 188 raenee my damage ranges from 60-1000 ,2600ish crits on mobs and with 1000 ranged init i have about 1second attack/reload.

so, using the weapon damage calculator at

http://kuren.org/ao/weapon.php
my average damage per second is 491 with 20% crit rate (LMA + hud upgrade adds1%)
this is on mobs though....

so lets take that to half for pvp, we get 245. ok im not in bad shape still my aim shot can do 40% usually and the rest of that can go down in maybe 10sec with that damage average..

now lets add the soldier mk shield!
13% of 491 is a whole 68 damage per second!
and these shields last for 1minute + at higher levels
Ive never seen a pvp fight at these levels last more then 20 seconds.
so with a lvl 150 soldier lets say hes atrox , has around 5k hp and comes in with his shield.
i get around maybe 400 aim shot if im lucky with their shield on so hes at 4600 health now.first aid heals that......
now with my averaging 68 damager per second after that i would need 73 seconds to kill this soldier and stay alive at the same time. add an alpha strike to me im just about dead in 5seconds.

just a little math, if your going to nerf damage and not shields and any other buffs that unbalance theirs no point.

ahh nothing like a bit of common sense to counter a little math...

Your an agent

You can root

You can get away..... remember thats 2minutes the soldier cannot cast a nano to remove root