Pet Pathing

[kristen27]

I have scanned a few of the threads on this forum, and have noticed pet pathing mentioned a few times. I have only played AO for a few months and as a result have probably missed other threads relating to this. But I feel I must post anyhow because the state of pets, who belong to several professions, is dreadful. Gameplay wise I cannot think of anything in more dire need of attention.

Engineers and MP's can rely almost entirely on their pets in a mission but are rendered practically useless because a pet cannot navigate a table 10 rooms back. A BS-style mission is a nightmare... constant room backtracking every minute is required.

I am not a programmer, but I cannot understand how in this day and age it can be so difficult to path a pet in the game. The scenery is largley linear and non-interactive, I don't need my droid to crawl under tables and hurdle furniture... just follow me would be nice.

I have seen many patches since I took up the game. New nanos, and fancy features. I would, however, much prefer if the game was fixed before it was tweaked. Poor pet pathing grossly undermines a class.

Please Funcom !

[_____________Siiamak]

Well u have to use the mochizmos for the gizmos to work and code the quizmos cause the gizmos dont quez the mochizmos and the giz mos r the mochismoz so in order to make a pet use the giz mo u gotto send in a mochizmo ,, get it?

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

Most people just gave up the fight about a year ago. Funcom says they will be changing mission enviroments, since, ITO, they think small rooms are the real problem with pet pathing. I tend to disagree with them, since pets get stuck on everything from sand dunes to pebbles outside as well. Still to pacify the pet classes they intend to change mission environments, which should improve things a bit indoors at least...

[Rhynoman]

I don't really see how the size of the room matters, but my MP pets do work much better outdoors than in so larger rooms might help. And the only time I have trouble outside is on hills, so unless they put some hills in the missions I think it may help. Besides the pathing can't get much worse. So I'm hopeful, but I have been wrong before.

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

I'm sure you have been to some of the statics, Biomare, Camelot, Nooblibs, big rooms there, some very big rooms. How do your pets do in these spacious places? Mine still run the wrong way and hump a wall when given the attack cmd often enough, rubber-band out of sight and get stuck on silly things enough for me not to bother casting them.

The pet warp cmd we've been asking for would help a lot; also allowing pets to follow some cmds when their master is flying would help, like the "follow" command.

Things that might help pets a lot, disabling all collisions so that all walls, furnishings doors are transparent to them and making pets ignore z-axis changes so there is basically no "Z-Axis" for them.
.

[Inconvenience]

I think that the pet warping is definitly something that should be implemented. But remember that pet pathing is directly linked to mob pathing so changing one will inevitably effect the other.

Also, I cannot recommend a pet proffesion to anyone as even if all pathing issues were worked out your pet will still have issues with server synch that can never be worked out with available networking technology. This is due to pet owners issuing commands,pets recieving commands and then acting out these commands. Wich takes twice as long as pressing q. I'm no expert but this seems logical. I meantion this specifically in relation to leveling after 120 or so. When teams move through missions like mob lawnmowers.

Any changes to indoor environments will be more than welcome. and if they can separate pet collision detection from mob's then super.

At the high end game a "pet assist" command might be something that could help. Where the pet automatically attacks whatever the target of the command is attacking- and sticks to them like glue.

[gwend]

no matter what fc does pet pathing will still blow goats

the fix will probably be sky scraper missions: 1 or 2 huge rooms lined with phillip rose paintings and 30 floors

[Kuro]

Originally posted by charm``
I have scanned a few of the threads on this forum, and have noticed pet pathing mentioned a few times. I have only played AO for a few months and as a result have probably missed other threads relating to this. But I feel I must post anyhow because the state of pets, who belong to several professions, is dreadful. Gameplay wise I cannot think of anything in more dire need of attention.

Engineers and MP's can rely almost entirely on their pets in a mission but are rendered practically useless because a pet cannot navigate a table 10 rooms back. A BS-style mission is a nightmare... constant room backtracking every minute is required.

I am not a programmer, but I cannot understand how in this day and age it can be so difficult to path a pet in the game. The scenery is largley linear and non-interactive, I don't need my droid to crawl under tables and hurdle furniture... just follow me would be nice.

I have seen many patches since I took up the game. New nanos, and fancy features. I would, however, much prefer if the game was fixed before it was tweaked. Poor pet pathing grossly undermines a class.

Please Funcom !

It's not as easy because people keep forgetting the difference between single player games and mmogs: in mmogs, you can't trust the client computer.

During the setup for Baldur's Gate 2, you can go in and modify the number of path nodes for monsters and party members to use while playing. Tweaking it too high will have drastic effects on your computer if your cpu can't handle it. Obviously, all the pathing is done on your computer in BG2.

In AO, none of the pathing can be done on your computer. If it were, we'd shortly have people hacking the code to move their pets where ever they wanted. Theoretically a group of engineers with slayerdroids could stand by a team mission entrance, run their little proggie, and warp their pets to the boss mob room set on /pet hunt. So with everything being server-side, AO can't use the normal pathing techniques like search nodes and 'bread crumbs'. The servers wouldn't be able to handle all the pathing and let players play the game.

However they do their pet pathing, I do wish they'd fix some of it. Most of the time, my crat droids are fine. Its those times when they're not fine is what annoys me. I look around and have no idea where he's wandered off to. Nevermind when I tell it /pet attack and he starts running out the opposite door. Always worries me about the train he's getting ready to create for me

[Skyhigh]

There is definetively a problem with some rooms. You ever noticed how your bot will start running the exact opposite way when you stand in certain room corner. Some rooms are bugged, your bot think your somewhere else when you stand in a corner.

Changing missions rooms layout will help a lot..... i hope.

[______________Nable7]

so far, it sounds like the /warp command would be splendid. does anybody of a problem with the concept?

[Swing]

We've been begging for /pet warp since day one. Dont hold your breath. =(

[______________Uhohoh]

Originally posted by Aguitha
There is definetively a problem with some rooms. You ever noticed how your bot will start running the exact opposite way when you stand in certain room corner. Some rooms are bugged, your bot think your somewhere else when you stand in a corner.

Changing missions rooms layout will help a lot..... i hope.

Yeah **** i hate when that happens......how come your pet moves the OPPOSIT direction when you /pet attack??????

That is so weird and everytime it happens i get angry!

[Toxinator]

CZ stated on the professionals forum that 14.8 might be a pathing fix patch or something. Who knows might just be yet another broken promise...

[_______zeroframerate]

"Next patch might contain" is a great way of saying absolutely nothing whilst calming down some of the masses.

Don't expect any improvements until late 2003 prolly.

[issac]

You know i left Ao for a year because of pathing and the **** huge lag problem at the launch or our mutual addiction.

I figured when i got back after my hiatus engies pet pathing would ve fixed , yet a year and a half later ... nada

I'ts a problem we all know it so does FC but what i want is very simple

Either fix it or have the hootzpa to say " We're unable to fix the problem we're so sorry "

For frigs sake guys Engies are hating it still prolly always will
My idea would be ta make all of the Arks play an engie for 2 weeks then they might get it

You try ta get a group at level 150 + that isnt just a little squeemish at the thought of havin a bugged and buggered engie in their group

O well my 2 creds worth anyways

Issac
Defender of all that aint too shabby

[______Venture/Plixie]

Well, there's no doubt, pet pathing needs to be redone..

Originally posted by Kuroshio
In AO, none of the pathing can be done on your computer. If it were, we'd shortly have people hacking the code to move their pets where ever they wanted. Theoretically a group of engineers with slayerdroids could stand by a team mission entrance, run their little proggie, and warp their pets to the boss mob room set on /pet hunt. So with everything being server-side, AO can't use the normal pathing techniques like search nodes and 'bread crumbs'. The servers wouldn't be able to handle all the pathing and let players play the game.

Pet pathing in AO today isn't anywhere near as complicated as in BG, in AO it seems that the pets are following a pre-determined path through the rooms, the reason for my pet getting stuck most of the times, is to and from Mobs. And the client do has some saying in where the pet is, at least, that's how it looks from my point-of-view.
Example; When I start a single mission, I usually send my pet on a hunt, to clear out the main room, and when I do, my pet seems to be humping the wallthe reason for them being stuck humping the door, or the wall next to the door. Then all of a sudden, it's warped out to the mob, getting aggroed by all of them, and THEN gets warped back in with me (accidentally pulling every d*mned mob on the map to me). This seems to me to be a client/server sync problem.

Originally posted by smotheredhope
But remember that pet pathing is directly linked to mob pathing so changing one will inevitably effect the other.

Nope, uhuh, no way, un true!
Maybe 1 time have i completly lost a mob due to pathing, but not for more than a couple of minutes. A mob NEVER gets lost, if IT hits a wall, it just warps right infront of you and starts giving you a very very bad time.

If they copied the mob code, and pasted over the current pet code, we'd have our working pets!


Some points of my own;
- Funcom say they are putting in larger rooms? Well, how about REMOVING THE FRECKIN ROOMS THAT CAUSE THE BIGGEST PROBELMS?!
- Like that tiny "corner office"? You know the small room with two exits? A desk and a chair? If I see that room, I just terminate my pet, and make a new one, there's not even a point trying to get your pet around that room!!!
- Also, in (brown) cave missions, you sometimes come up against that little crossway room, 4 exits, divided by a wooden fence or something.. Ever tried walking a Slayer or a Warbot through that little hole?? I usually turn around and try to find another way around.
- Dunno if this room is still around, since i've stopped doing those missions. But the infamous "conference room", mid sized room, with a long table, and chairs that must look sooooooooooo appealing to a slayer, cause it just have to hump it.
- There's a bunch of other rooms too, but these are the onces that makes me shiver everytime I see them, even when I'm playing petless chars.

Hell, If they don't remove those rooms soon, I'm gonna start demanding XP (and a lot of it) for succesfully getting my pet through it!! And a big bonus at the end of the mission IF we manage to go through an entire mission without terminating our pets!

In closings, I wanna give some small advice to people that are just starting out in the pet buisness... Do NOT jump on anything! Stay on ground level all the time! If you see a room with a table in it, try to find another way around it, walk in wide circles, look behind you, make sure your pet(s) is still there, team with metas and/or traders, so you can recast your pet if needed. After level 120 or so, your pet will probably be more in the way, so you won't need it until you meet 'da boss. So save it until then.

And most importaintly, don't give up! Speak up! Make yourself heard! Let funcom know that pet owners still lurk around, and are in desperat need for better pathing!

(Take a look at http://walkalot.voje.net/anarchyonline for some nice screens of pets.. Host is down when I'm writing this, but will hopefully be up shortly)

[Destractor]

The idea of larger rooms scares me.

If larger rooms, means more mobs per room, then engies will have a real hard time.

The main problem inside missions are doors (and to a lesser extent tables). Will they make doors larger, making it easier for pets, but more likely to get aggroed from other rooms?

I am hoping a major recoding of the pathing is going on, not just remaking the missions, will they flatten all outdoor areas? will they remove all z-axis changes in mission (such as biomere) ?


I would have thought that the missions would be created with set pathing nodes for the pets to follow, a node in each door that the pet HAS to pass through to enter the next room.

Finding the pet stuck in a wall, next to a door is a constant for any pet prof. At the moment engies and MP's are only good for soloing with pets (crats are calmers). This takes away the high end teaming game for these profs, unless they don't mind being taken on by people who pity them.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Plixie
Well, there's no doubt, pet pathing needs to be redone..


Pet pathing in AO today isn't anywhere near as complicated as in BG, in AO it seems that the pets are following a pre-determined path through the rooms, the reason for my pet getting stuck most of the times, is to and from Mobs. And the client do has some saying in where the pet is, at least, that's how it looks from my point-of-view.
Example; When I start a single mission, I usually send my pet on a hunt, to clear out the main room, and when I do, my pet seems to be humping the wallthe reason for them being stuck humping the door, or the wall next to the door. Then all of a sudden, it's warped out to the mob, getting aggroed by all of them, and THEN gets warped back in with me (accidentally pulling every d*mned mob on the map to me). This seems to me to be a client/server sync problem.

I know AO's pathing is kindergarten level compared to the grad school level found in BG2 and other single player games. Necessity dictates it. Search nodes aren't an option. The CPUs on the servers would be eaten by all the pets.

'Bread Crumbs' could be an option, if implemented perfectly.'Bread crumbs' are eessentially temporary tracks left by the pet owner where they walk. As you move, you leave a temporary trail behind you which a pet follows exactly. There would be a few problems, like size differences between the pet and the owner, but the real issue is ram. Every time I've seen this implemented, the 'crumbs' were ram intensive on the servers.

Now I've had my share of problems with my crat droids. But not too many of them. My issues have normally been my pet getting lost as I run through areas.

[Triskweline]

Originally posted by Plixie

Well, there's no doubt, pet pathing needs to be redone..





- There's a bunch of other rooms too, but these are the onces that makes me shiver everytime I see them, even when I'm playing petless chars.

I cannot tell you how many times members of my teams die in BS-type missions because of the room you take a lift up to that is completely blocked off by a waist-high barrier running the length of it. All the pets get stuck and the pet owners run around trying to free them or cast new ones, drawing adds all the while. That room should definitely be removed.

[___________Meekatten]

Hello Charm

Ive been at this matter for quite some time. So I could give you a few notes on the matter - well in so repeating some of what others already mentioned in their replies.

First off though:

When you try to send in the robot or materialization (if you Meta) into the next room and it tried to go trough the wall.
You can actually get it in without exposing yourself by first hitting follow (you have the macros in the overhead bar arleady dont you?).
And after that you press guard - most often the pet will now go trough the door instead. Ok this doesnt always work - but ive had quite some suxxessrate with it.

Pet warp have already been mentioned and yes - it would also get the pet back in sync as far as I understand the workings of the game.
We need it already!

One temporary solution would be to make the pet one extention of the player. In so - no pet pathing whatsoever.
But that just for one emergency patch.

Have actually talked to one of the GM's who seemed to have vry good knowledge on the matter and he said that some of the problems we experience is due to internal server lag.

So as a later - but still only as a temporary solution the pet should be moved to the client side - and not handled by the server.
It is after all the player who moves around and this way the pet could closely follow its 'master' around, and yes this suggestion go hand in glove with the former one.

But it would be best that they adressed the way pets behave directly, when it have tried the same dumb things for this or that many seconds - it should be trying something else.
First off slide a little bit sideways so it finds the door opening or past the end of the table.
When will we see that?