Make NT nukes crit

[Darkbeak]

Am i playing a different game?

regarding 150+ chars PvM: I NEVER saw anyone outdamage a good NT in a mission unless he wanted to be outdamaged.

I dont remember exactly how Nts were faring lvl 80-150 but when i play with my alts (all around lvl 40-80) there sometimes will be another alt NT in a group and he dishes out damage like hell. Almost same thing as 150+, from most professions he wont get outdamaged unless he wants to.

I admit that against special bosses/Uniques the NR on these is just stupid.
In PvP Nts can use specials like all others and unload them while nuke is recharging, have AoE nukes, blinds etc. Yes Enforcer with rage running is definetely the reclaim, but hey, that is no special NT weakness, its the same with almost every prof: see raging enf comin ur way, try to run, evac, hide, cheat, whatever...if u stand and fight ur dead.

Id say damage is really ok with NT nukes, NR may be an issue. Perhaps give them a short term nano that uses lots of ncu, lots of nano and gives them a boost of 300 to nano attack rating. or give them a item for util1-3 that lowers all NR against nuke strain by 15% but lowers all but nano Ini by 800 pts.
dont start a damage increasing race through the professions that leads to more unbalancing, therefore more nerf cries, even more cries for more damage and so on

[Flapsie]

Yes good idea, make something that renders weapons useless for us, because nano's is really what we use or at least should be using...

[Internalfireh]

Your complaining about the Nano line for damage JEEZ!

At least be realistix.

As an Ma im totaly gimped so i have what Absolutely no sympathey for your black holes and fumbling.

Have a mob parry 60% of your hits.

And btw " Better min dmage and lowred recharges" Man GET REALISTIC!

You dont see me in the MA forum going up our dmage by say 500 a hit (whihc btw isnt unrealistc to bring um up to par with say a QB enforcer infact its FAR from a QB enf) and lower our Speed below the Cap to 0.5/0.5 og and while your at it make our heals 2 sec recharge ass opposed to 8 and instead of 500-1000 make it 900-1000, that sounds good.

Man, get some high lvl PvP experaince and a fixer killer nano then see whos at reclaim.

[deatheyes]

MeepMeep is right, at high levels, I decide when I want to be in the top damage dealers on a PVM team and when I do not. The difficulty of a young NT (at least for me was) nano init. If you can't get that calm off or to land, you're toast.

Being a good NT requires a lot of dedication, but for me is very rewarding.

Nanos critting = bad idea imo.

nanos not hitting for maximum damage or minimum damage a lot:
AC. Been a lot of discussion about this in the NT forums lately.

nanos with narrow damage ranges = minumum damage all the time except against leets, because of AC once again

Personally, I like wide damage range nukes. Keeps my attention.

"Whoah CotP hit for 4.5k three times in a row!!!"
"Bah, these soldiers have insane chem ac AND reflect runnin... this is gonna take a while"


I'd like to see is more "toy" nukes... fun stuff with interesting debuffs or effects. Blood Boil is a good example, but with the damage it does it should be ql60, not 150ish.

The other place where we could use some love is in the nano pool. A stackable HE fixer-style but self only would be nifty. Or something like how mongo works, for nano pool, without the taunt and a bigger HP DoT. You could nuke like mad but your group has to take one doc off the tank to keep you goin.

Good NT's rock, the rest are just whiners

-DE

[mithrax]

Originally posted by Troublex
Make NT nanos crit and throw in a lower nano resist line and a added nano crit line.
THis doesnt mean add more nanos...dear god there are already so many i never use..just change the current ones to show a crit amount.

Read the information Cz writes about nano dmg and criting in this thread.

Criting is already worked into the damage formulae already

[Codestrap]

Originally posted by Third Eye


Init affecting nano recharge? wouldn't work, think about for example stuns which has to have higher recharge than effect time to be balanced, also nukes would be very overpowered if you could cast them at 1/1 (5000 dmg every 2 sec), CH every 2 sec, layers every 2 sec etcetc, think for a sec and you'll realize.

I believe that funcom can differentiate between combat, defensive, buffing and healing nano's. It is possible to be selective about which nano strains are allowed to have their init's reduced. Keeping it to combat strains only would be possible (Probably more feasable). And besides, the recharge reductions do not have to be large. Any NT would be completely happy with .5 sec per 300 points on nano init. With the init changes, anything past 1200 inits are marginal. You'd probably cap your max recharge reduction at 2 seconds, unless you found a way to get an additional 900 Nano Init, which would drop it a further .5 seconds.

Regarding stuns ... You really, have a look at our stun nano. Even if you reduced the amount of recharge in the same manner as attack stuns would still be near practical uselessness. The stuns last 3 seconds and have a 9 second recharge time. In fact, the only real time that Neural Stunner (Our only pure stun) is any good is in Group PvP and doing things like stopping doctors from healing.

The problem with NT damage has been mentioned before. Like Eaze said, our damage is not consistant enough (over time) to be very worth while in PvP. It DOES come out lumpy, hard and slow. and after caps, with no crits and definately no maximum damage, our damage over time with nukes is pitiful. This is why you never see a good NT without a weapon - our primary damage output isn't cutting it. Not only that but we really can't specialise in any weapon either. (same for MP's) Weapons also stop firing on the attack phase of a nano and CAN hang on recharge.

Specials ... Now most people will know the sorry state of PvP. Alpha's are the king of PvP. Do we have any Insta-cast, insta-recharge, non-defendable attacks? No. If we become the NT's funcom want us to be (As stated) = Nuke Only. We'd be out in the dark with nothing to do about it.

In PvM the problem is that Funcom have taken the damage output from other professions and modified NPC's in accordance to the huge amount of damage being dealt, and a most of it from critical hits. Nukes don't crit. As a result of this, nuke damage was probably over looked. This would cause the advantage we do have to slip. Not to say we don't have it, but it has severly atrophied to the point where the is little distinction.

I'm not going to say we're not good in teams either. We are. And we probably do deal the most damage in teams with harder mobs. With mobs mild orange-green this isn't always the case. Specials from gun wielders will often finish off a mob before you are able to hit your nuke macro/hotkey a second time.

Solo, see, this is were we start seeing the difference between gunwielders and nano casters. NT's were CREATED flawed. To balance our envisioned damage we have to keep some absolutely rubbish defense and hitpoints (Maybe not trox NT's). With mobs being significantly boosted due to gun wielders and crits, our damage has diminished.

There is no determining factor about damage dealt with nukes. We HAVE no attack rating for nukes. Our MC skill just dictates which nukes we use, and which nukes we can't. Where as with weapons it will adjust damage/hit and miss. Is there an MC skill vs Resist check? I've not seen the server code for it, but I would place a bet it's a "No". The chance to resist is solely a random roll based on the resist rate on the nano. Max-Min damage seems to be completely random too.

And PLEASE, for the love of god, would the people who keep referring to CotP, LotP, Candy Cane and RB come to realise: THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE TO 100% OF THE NT'S THAT CAN USE THEM. I can't solo Agent Lamb, I can't solo the Pest and I can't solo Lotjour. Not everyone has a huge guild of higher levels to get these things. Factoring special items into profession balance is in likeness to the illogic the same people preach against. And IF we do have the nano's, I'd pay cr for a screen shot of any NT selfcasting (without org contracts - for those smart enough to not get suckered into buying a PATCH!) them.


Piercing Evil probably gave the best solution.

NT's. We're average if we have uber loot.

[___________Tangretti]

qote from internalfire:

You dont see me in the MA forum going up our dmage by say 500 a hit (whihc btw isnt unrealistc to bring um up to par with say a QB enforcer infact its FAR from a QB enf) and lower our Speed below the Cap to 0.5/0.5 og and while your at it make our heals 2 sec recharge ass opposed to 8 and instead of 500-1000 make it 900-1000, that sounds good

I have no problems getting great damage just using fists. All I have to do is hit the brawl button once to start the attack, sit back, and relax. Maybe throw in the occassional heal. An NT will NEVER be a true 1/1 attack. You have to hit the button for every attack you do. No one really understands this or mentions it. If they have.. I have missed it. The delay it takes for you to hit the button, plus any lag, keeps any NT from being 1/1. Throw in a much higher than advertised fumble rate of 3 percent and that adds even more time. My MA only misses a fair amount agains the primus mobs in the primus camp. I get multiple 2700 crits and a couple 3k brawls and very decent avg damage on top of that. An MA is far from gimp. The only problem MA's have is with pvp. But someone well practiced in pvp play may do well with one despite this. My NT so far can't really afford a weapon IP wise. Since I have gone max on everything else. In a team.. my NT looks formidable.. alone he stinks! Most every time I have run my damage program in missions, the high level nt's don't top the list. That says it all for me. You can customize any character in this game to be as uber as you want (engies maybe not :P). While I may not like the fact that I will have to don a weapon eventually, I won't complain about it. I knew what I was getting into. Just remember, an NT that doesn't use a weapon can not be 1/1.

[Jaesic]

Originally posted by Tangretti
qote from internalfire:
Throw in a much higher than advertised fumble rate of 3 percent and that adds even more time

Recent released info shows that base fumble rate (3%) is modified by a check of nano skill vs. NR. Thus, nukes (and other hostile nanos) are getting two checks vs. NR... once for fumble and once for countering. Considering how many times in any single battle this can result in a non-damaging nuke... you might understand a little more why NTs wish to have either higher damage on the ones that land or a better chance (lower NR) to hit on the nukes that already exist.

There's also the fact that anything that raises a weapon user's attack rating (newer implants, armor, etc) or new weapons with higher base damage results in higher damage output. Higher AC totals to compensate for this (on players and mobs) lowers damage received. Meanwhile, nothing raises nuke damage. Higher MC does not affect damage. On the other side... higher AC does lower nuke damage, though admittedly not below the min. damage of the nuke (reflects/absorbs can though).

There are a few new nukes at the high end of the game (level requirements on all of them) that are designed with the current weapon totals in mind... but all other nukes in the game are still based on outdated calculations for damage totals. At some levels, this might still be in balance with available weapons and armor... but for most level ranges, NTs are not able to rely on what is supposed to be our primary feature. This is like telling a doc to use emergency treatment kits for healing purposes because they're more efficient than the healing nanos.

[___________Tangretti]

I completely understand and wasn't arguing either way.. just simply stating that when I am playing my NT I get fumbles virtually every mob.. that is way too often in my opinion..

NT's are supposed to be the masters of nano manipulation. Yet we fumble and get countered more than any other profession. Yes, we cast more.. but the ratio isn't the same. Formula's or not, something isn't correct.

I too wish that the damage was better suited to your level. It seems to be quite good up to lvl 50 and then starts getting pretty bad as you get higher. Consider the fact that my NT is only 105.. Maybe that is a dead zone for NT's.

I have stated in other threads that I feel NT damage is not where it should be. I also feel the same about doctor heals. They have too much of a spread between low damage or heal vs high. On my NT.. I have never hit for the highest the nano is rated. I sure have hit on the low side though.

If you ask 1000 people what they would like to change in this game.. you'll get 1000 different answers. Maybe a few overlaps (pet pathing). I believe by far that docs could heal better than they do and NT's should do better damage without relying on weapons.

I truly feel that if there weren't any weapons that did 10k crits, any of this would be as much of an issue. Everyone wants the biggest crit no matter what profession they choose. Unfortunately, every class doesn't lean towards the weapons that do that type of damage. People seem to equip weapons when they have finally maxxed everything out. No matter what profession. So above 160 or 170.. everyone starts to level out, because everyone is equipping the same high damage weapons.
I wish that didn't happen. It makes for less diversity. The same goes for armor. Everyone above a certain level wears one of 3 or 4 types of armor.

When my NT hits 150+, I am sure I will be carrying around some popular weapon that does high special damage. Of course, none of us have to do anything.. it is a game.. and we aren't dictated to how we raise our characters.

[Jaesic]

Originally posted by Tangretti
I completely understand and wasn't arguing either way..

yeah, my post was more supporting info to back up your post than a response to your post... sorry if i didn't make that clear.